Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Puppetino
Caesar
Ok, let's do this!
What's the work?
The Last of Us (2023) is HBO's latest bombshell series, based on The Last of Us. Set in a post-apocalyptic landscape where a strand of cordyceps fungus has become an infectious, brain-eating disease that has ravaged humankind. Following stoic Joel as he transports the immune girl Ellie across the country in the hopes of her bringing forth a cure, the duo face threats human and inhuman alike, with one of them standing out above all the rest:
Who is David? What has he done?
Appearing in Episode 8, "When We Are in Need", David is the leader of the band of survivors that Ellie stumbles across at Silver Lake, CO. Though presenting himself as a friendly, religious father to his people who wants Ellie as an ally, David is quickly revealed to be the most monstrous character in the series.
- David uses his position as leader and church minister to lord power and abuse over those in his "care." He frequently talks down to his followers, he noticeably eats large plates of food while his starving followers get much smaller portions, and when the young girl Hannah expresses a desire to have Ellie killed because of her hand in Joel's murder of Hannah's dad, David smacks Hannah to the floor for talking back to him and questioning his orders.
- As his group has begun to run out of food, David has taken "extreme" measures: he's taking dead bodies—either found in the world or killed by his group—and cannibalizing them, secretly feeding the meat to his unwary followers. Multiple bodies of men, women and even apparent children are strung up in a hidden shack, waiting to be feasted on. David does this to even the group's own members, horrifyingly feeding the unaware Hannah her own dead father while David watches with smug contentment, having lied that her father's corpse is somewhere it can't be buried yet because of winter frost.
- After specifically ordering his group to capture Ellie alive but ordering Joel be killed, David tries to pull a We Can Rule Together on a caged Ellie, his true intentions soon enough becoming clear: David is a pedophile and child abuser, bragging that his former career before the apocalypse was that of a schoolteacher who had a "violent heart", and now he wants Ellie next. When Ellie rejects his sick advances and breaks his finger, David attempts to chop her up and cannibalize her, only for the girl to break free and kill David's Dragon, James.
- Not even batting an eye at James's corpse as he grabs the cleaver Ellie buried in his head, David pursues Ellie in the middle of his burning base of operations, taunting her:
- Finally cornering Ellie, David blatantly attempts to rape the screaming, struggling girl, cheerfully noting "I thought you already knew?! The fighting is the part I like the most! Don't be afraid. "There is no fear in love!""
- Ellie luckily manages to grab the discarded cleaver and use it a few dozen times on the sick bastard's face, David dying choking on his own butchered flesh as the building burns around him and a traumatized Ellie escapes to reunite with Joel.
Mitigating features?
Haaaaa
Most every character in the series, even other villainous ones like Kathleen or Marlene, get some level of tragedy, redeeming features, etc. to them...but no, David has none at all. He claims to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist who cares about his people, but he's a sadistic, egomaniacal abuser and tyrant who mistreats and torments the people he considers his "flock", and he even reveals to Ellie that he doesn't believe any of the religious jargon he's spouting. He's just using it as a method of control, and he is in fact pleased with the apocalypse because it gave him free reign to be himself and hurt others.
Heinousness?
In a world as bleak as this, with Infected running around and murderous revolutionaries like Kathleen killing many people, you expect some brutality, but uh...David is just every single bad thing you can be in an apoc wrapped up into one neat bundle. He's worse than in the game, even.
He's a cannibal who feeds his unknowing followers their own loved ones, letting them starve while he gorges himself; he's an abusive leader who slaps a child for talking back to him and disregards the lost lives of his men; and worst of all, he's a heinous pedophile who is indicated to have once been a teacher with all the disturbing implications that carries, and on top of trying to rape Ellie and make her his "pet"? David's dialogue indicates that he's been abusing other kids in his group in such ways, Hannah not only being physically abused by David but his Insistent Terminology of being her "father"—exactly what he proclaims he's going to be to Ellie before attempting to rape her—paints a a very telling picture.
Final Verdict?
That's an easy Yes.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 21st 2023 at 10:31:25 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Astolfo my Man
David. BTW Ravok, I believe the TV version of David is even worse than the game one correct I pretty much see his crimes being much worse in my eyes.
Not the Eye
to David
to David
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to David.
Where do we stand on Daruizen?
Edited by ACW on Mar 21st 2023 at 1:40:43 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He probably needs Re-EP’d tbh
He could count. He’s not as heinous as the King but he still shares the goal for Omnicide, what he did to Nodoka and others is more horrible than even what the other generals did (when he turned people into Monsters of the Week he specifically ensured they felt pain, something no other general did)
King beats him in heinousness, no question, but he might scrape by on personal villainy, especially since it’s made clear he only cares about himself by the end, even moreso than the King’s agenda. Telling when even the heroes refuse to give him another chance, and he even admits he was bullshitting them just to grow more powerful.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Mar 21st 2023 at 10:56:27 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, someone who saw the whole thing should probably re-EP him.
Venus, you seem to know the work, wanna do the EP and then writeup him and the King together?
Edited by ACW on Mar 21st 2023 at 1:57:23 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Easy yes to David.
Sounds good.
I also left out that whenever he encountered Nodoka after doing what he did to her, he felt the need to sadistically torture her and constantly single her out and try to murder her to the point of ignoring the other Cures as well.
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
The Moron
And a yet to David, good work Rav!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, seems like the King gets by on scale, while Daruizen gets by on personal cruelty.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to David. Surprised the adaptation was so accurate to the point that it kept David a CM and somehow made him even WORSE.
Edited by Fireball246 on Mar 21st 2023 at 11:47:46 AM
Pretty much.
David. A pedophilic monster just like in the game, but 10 times worse.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Mar 21st 2023 at 11:14:09 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
David and Puppetino
Here are the rest of my Diagnosis: Murder writeups.
- Howard Weber is the head of an oil company who’s secretly "The Clown Killer." Killing young women all across the world and leaving clown face paint on them as his calling card, with Howard himself guessing somewhere closer to 40 victims, Howard returns to L.A. to continue his killing spree. Mocking the officer chasing him, Harry, with his return, Howard frames one of his employees, Randy Horsting, for the murders, and upon being caught by Sloan, hopes to gain fame from his crimes.
- Ariel is a thief who hopes to steal from a hotel vault. Manipulating several men into doing her bidding by making them give up everything to be with her, Ariel tricks a med school grad student named Alex into bringing her a deadly virus, using it to infect the hotel as a distraction. With over two dozen people at risk of dying from the virus’s effects, Ariel kills Alex to tie up loose ends, willing to kill her entire crew to keep the money for herself.
Easy yes to David.
Just before I get to Diagnosis Murder, here's Gregory Sunshine. Tiger and Bunny for those unaware is an anime highly influenced by superhero fiction. Those with superpowers are called the NEXT and being a good capitalist society, many have monetized it. Hero TV is the most popular show, and heroes earn points by defeating villains, saving people, stopping disasters. Kotetsu Kaburagi "Wild Tiger" is a dedicated hero given a partner in the mysterious Barnaby, a stern and by the book young man with a mysterious past, and the two slowly form a deep bond as friends and partners...taking on a hidden evil syndicate called Ouroboros.
Our villain? Gregory Sunshine.
Who is Sunshine?
Gregory Sunshine was a petty crook who could make other NEXT lose control of their powers. Gregory is seen in a hero's flashback doing it to him after many others with mass destruction in civilian regions and risking many lives. Captured and sent to jail, he was used as a vector for illegal experimentation until he escaped. Ending up murdering several sympathetic villains to get away with the drug, Gregory forms his own schemes and takes center stage as a major villain in the latter half of season 2.
Gregory causes another outbreak of insane NEXT to cover for himself. Destroying their minds and turning them into "X," allying with Ouroboros to help cover for the next phases of his plan while continuing the X outbreak. Gregory causes a prison break, turning prisoners into X with mass destruction again. Manipulating one escaped madman to try to slaughter the heroes, Gregory murders his Ouroboros contact for a promotion, before driving the escaped convict Audun insane to slaughter the heroes and then uses his power on Kotetsu, willing to just burn down Sternbild to get what he wants.
The heroes win and Gregory is arrested. Ouroboros, now considering him a liability ends up having an agent driving the prison van. To gregory's absolute panic, the guy bails and sends the van careening off a bridge with a long way down...
Mitigating issues?
Nah. Gregory is just a greedy, self-serving scumbag who's dedicated to his own benefit. He's surprisingly wide-reaching, too. This isn't just general "property damage." Gregory's effects on civilians is abundantly clear, and Golden Ryan, when driven out of control, injured multiple civilians badly and is still plagued by nightmares from the experience.
Gregory is fully into doing this on wider scales, risking and sacrificing hundreds if not thousands of lives with his rampaging X, personal manipulations and more. he's profoundly just a low-rent scumbag reaching higher and higher into nastiness with nothing short of remorseless malignancy.
Conclusion?
Keeper
Not the Eye
to Sunshine
Btw, A single decision writeups should go into frachise wide folder on fanworks page. Just to note.
Goku Black
David and sunshine.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Puppetino, Doom, David, Sunshine
An "established rapist, torturer and murderer" is appalled? Could this be a Diavolo situation jw?
Oh and the current image for Fan Works is from a sonic fan work so I guess that gets moved to that page?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Mr. Sunshine
To Gregory Sunshine and David (who I’ve been waiting to vote on)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Gregory.
Maverick goes first I'm guessing as the Big Bad; Benoit is last as a one-shot; should Sunshine go before or after Rotwang?
Geode: Franchise-Wide instead of in the Films folder?
Wet: That's the plan. Image Pickin'
Edited by ACW on Mar 21st 2023 at 3:02:42 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Put Sunshine last. He's the only villain introduced in the second series.
Diagnosis Murder and Training Day next. Then Wo Long
Not the Eye
yes, it is A Patchwork Fic of bunch of stuff from both canon and Legends.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 21st 2023 at 12:04:07 PM
