Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the Reaper.
I'm gonna need help with the Tabletop organization. I get Reaper's from RED, but I don't know which of the others are from the original vs. 2020 vs. Cybergeneration vs. V30.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
the Reaper and Charmichael image
Ultimate Moral Compass
Reaper AI
Yes to Reaper AI
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
King Kandy Kane
to Giselle and the Scorpion
....Phenomenal
for the Webster Killer and Ah yes, "Reapers".
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Podovsky with the heinous concerns in mind.
to Reaper AI.
Okay so here is that other candidate from Death in Paradise I mentioned, now I’m not 100% sure if they qualify but then I never thought we’d get one potential from this series, let alone to. So without further ado from season 10’s “Pilot of the Airways” I give Garfield Tourné.
Who Is he:
A beloved television presenter and reporter for the Saint Marie Public Broadcasting station, for 25 years Tourné has been the face of the station and is the most popular broadcaster on the island, his daily show “Hour with Tourné” is regularly watched by 80,000 people and has a won a vast selection of awards. Tourné goes out of his way to present himself as a charismatic, humble reporter who lives for his community.
Of course, it is all naturally a front, and in reality, Tourné is a narcissistic sociopath, as well as a colossal philander. And he proves to be hiding some pretty dark secrets behind his caring and cosy brand.
What Does he Do:
A beloved and wealthy celebrity, Tourné was living the high life, only for matters to be complicated with the hiring of his new younger co-host Melanie Spark. Nevertheless Tourné pretended to be friendly, even persuading Melanie to let him drive her home after the office Christmas party. However, once they arrived outside her home, Tourné attempted to force himself on her, with Melanie only managing to just fight him off.
She of course complained to the station head Henri Pigal, but as Tourné was the real power of what went on in the station it went nowhere, and thus Melanie was forced to keep her head down. Her seeming big break finally came when due to her own investigation she was able to uncover the local councillor Elmina Blondeau was in fact lying about fixing the old contaminated water pipes (this being one of the promises she had initially campaigned upon), meaning a large portion of the residents were unknowing drinking contaminated water.
However, seeing an opportunity Tourné instead approached Blondeau, offering to bury the story in exchange for her authorising his great vanity project, namely opening the Garfield Tourné Media studies wing at the Honore College. Blondeau agreed to sign off on the matter, Tourné forced Pigal to burry the story, instead running him an interview that presented Blondeau as the ideal candidate right before her re-election, and the entire matter was quietly billed to the taxpayers.
Enraged, Melanie however, managed to strike upon a bigger story. Realising that if Tourné was willing to sexually harass her in such a casual manner, he likely had done it to other women, she began to investigate the fact the station had such a high turnover in runners (general assistants), and sure enough, uncovered the fact that Tourné was a serial predator who regularly harassed and attempted to force himself upon them.
When they inevitably complained, he would simply fire them and give them a small payment to remain silent, with no one willing to listen to a mere assistant's words over the most beloved man on the island.
Getting the evidence to launch her big expose, Tourné got wind from his daughter Helene what Melanie was up to. Realising this would ruin him, he conspired with her to silence Melanie permanently. Thus right before his show, Tourné snuck out of the studio and went to Melanie’s him. Convincing her to let him in, he strangled her to death, staged the scene to look like a burglary gone wrong and then returned to carry out his show like nothing happened, interacting with a pre-recorded segment Helene had made the night before, whilst she impersonated Melanie to make it look like she was still alive during the broadcast and give them both an alibi.
However, his cleverly set up plan hit a snag in that whilst strangling Melanie, he didn’t notice her managing to rip a button off his new Italian suit. Upon finding it Detective Inspector Nevile Parker became suspicious of his supposed devastation at the death of his colleague.
And sure enough, Neville’s digging was able to uncover the link between him and Blondeau. Enraged at him for disrupting the announcement of his media wing, Tourné switched tactics and attempted to play nice, inviting Neville on air supposedly to launch an appeal to help with the investigation into Melanie’s death, when in reality the whole purpose was set up to humiliate and make it look like he didn’t have a clue.
Unfortunately for him, Neville was able to make a breakthrough when he realised that Melanie hadn’t died at the time they believed, and brought to them all to the studio, revealing he knew exactly how and why Tourné had murdered Melanie. Tourné sarcastically congratulated Neville on figuring it all out, before pointing out that as the most beloved man on the island, no one would take Neville’s word over his.
Only for Neville to reveal they didn’t need to, as he’d secretly been broadcasting the entire event life, and Tourné had just confessed to everything in front of 80,000 people, completely wiping the smile off his face as the police took him away.
Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:
Nothing that stands up. Tourné’s caring persona is utterly false and quite flimsy, with the guy barely attempting to hide how smug and callous he really is when he’s not on camera. His only motivations are lust and ego.
Helene is his daughter, but whilst he regularly plays the loving father on camera, it is likewise entirely an act, with him knowing it helps his brand. The two have absolutely no real relationship, and Helene is revealed to secretly hate Tourné due to all the misery he put her mother through during their marriage together, with his constant affairs and emotional abuse. She only sticks by him cause she’s also dependent on his brand for her career.
He passes Blondeau off as an old friend for the reason he won’t allow anything negative about her to be reported, but as it turns out this is solely transactional. He needs to be in her good graces to ensure his great vanity project goes ahead.
Heinous Standard:
Okay, I’ve talked in the past that overall the series doesn’t have a particularly high heinous standard. Every single episode features one murder, occasionally two. With one case of strangulation to his name and a level of political corruption involving the contaminated pipes (the water is described as being toxic at one point, but there is no mention of anyone getting sick or dying) it's not enough for Tourné to stand out.
However, as I said before rape and sexual harassment is a pretty rare crimes throughout the entire series. Apart from him and Drake, I can only think of another case (who doesn’t count as they only have one victim). Of the two Drake is still the worse, being a flat-out habitual serial rapist who has been active for thirty years, however, Tourné still emerges as pretty vicious himself.
Now exactly how many victims Tourné has is never gone into, we see a flashback of him attempting to force himself on Melanie though and do meet two of his other victims, likewise in her big report there are at least separate folders.
Conclusion:
Assuming you feel that Garfield Tourné also does enough to stand out in comparison to Drake, then I see no reason for him not to be a keeper
Still, what do you think?
Not the Eye
Garfield Tourné
Goku Black
reaper Ai and Garfield
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Yes to Heathcliff—ah, Garfield, rather.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the Reaper and Garfield.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Reaper AI. And Garfield Tourné. One of those much more toned-down but very realistic CMs here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, sure to Garfield, only because it's so rare.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
by the way acw. The Webster killer also appears in bombs Away.
Which is also where my first candidate is from.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the Reaper AI and Tourné.
This is going to take some discussing but having talked it over with Ravok and following his excellent post on Big Tim, I'd like to make a case for Mr. Ass-to-ass himself.
Who is "Uncle" Hank? What has he done?
A recurring character used by Darren Aronofsky, he first appears (credited as "The Pervert") in the short film Fortune Cookie, where he harasses the salesman protagonist with an inhuman ability to sniff out desperation and keeps trying to solicit the man for sex, finally succeeding in the end when the broken salesman stops resisting and steps into his car, Hank driving him off to use for his depraved appetites.
He also shows up in π and Black Swan to crassly harass characters on the subway (The above making what would otherwise just be vulgar singing and motioning a touch creepier) but his real outing comes in Requiem for a Dream. Alongside "Big Tim", he breaks women to be used in degrading sex shows in return for drugs, as shown in the infamous "Ass to ass" scene, chanting and cheering alongside the crowd he's gathered to sadistically enjoy the broken women performing.
Heinousness?
He's a secondary presence to Tim himself but I feel the earlier short does a good job establishing Hank as a predator looking for vulnerable people before using them for his deprived desires. There's a lot of online analysis of the character but for the purposes of this trope, he's worth marking down as a vicious pervert implied to be a chief figure in an awful prostitution ring and a personal sexual predator on his own time.
Mitigating factors?
The man's a dark enigma but we certainly aren't given anything mitigating about him.
Verdict?
Personally think he keeps but worth talking about.
Goku Black
hank
Hank, Garfield
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Not the Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I guess a yes, but are we sure it's all the same guy (and if so, where will he go?)?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes and put him under Requiem… most important.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
The Reaper AI
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him