Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Okay, here's the other Bullet Book guy. Bit more simple in comparison to the previous one.
What’s the Work?
Two Bodies One Grave is the ninth installment in the series, written by Wolfe and Scott Montgomery.
To once again quote the synopsis: "When hired killer, Knucks, returns to his burial site with a fresh kill, he finds a mysterious body occupying the hole he left empty. Packing several guns and a lot of bullets, he goes looking for answers. The search, through sleazy strip clubs and criminal–owned bars, takes him into a set–up involving the St. Louis mob and the police. The mafia is moving into a new territory and puts a samurai–sword–wielding assassin on Knucks, along with their most brutal mob soldiers.
Before the night’s over, a lot more holes will be dug."
Let's talk about said "samurai-sword-wielding assassin".
Who Is He?
Whisper, or "The Zip" as Knucks frequently calls him, is a mute, sword-wielding Italian assassin hired by the Patti Family to kill Knucks.
What has he done?
Having killed over 60 people back in Italy, Whisper introduces himself by murdering Knucks’s girlfriend Beverly, then moving on to kill Knucks. Once police interfere, Whisper happily kills some cops before making an escape, with his murders all pinned on Knucks. Whisper later kills Knucks’s daughter Cali by slitting her throat.
Encountering Knucks one final time during his raid on Big Man’s barnyard hideout, Knucks is able to defeat Whisper by stabbing him in the leg with a pitchfork and unloading an uzi clip into him, making sure he’ll never get back up.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. While Whisper never talks, he's heard laughing while killing people, and despite being told to kill Knucks, he personally goes after people Knucks is closest to, or are at the very least in his way, including his daughter. Whisper ultimately finds enjoyment in his murders, in contrast to Knucks, who kills to financially support his family.
Heinousness?
While he's not that prominent in the story, Whisper is a considerable, and very personal, threat to Knucks, having killed two people he dearly cared for. And that's on top of his slaughtering of several cops and his very bloody past back in Italy. 60+ kills is a big number for this series, so Whisper easily triumphs over other murderers in terms of body count.
The other villains in the story either have redeeming qualities, are significantly less heinous, or completely nonexistent.
Conclusion
Another simple keep.
And if there are any other Bullet Book contenders, I'll go over them, but consider these two the easiest keeps atm.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 1st 2024 at 1:04:46 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
whisper
Jogo
Whisper
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Whisper and Fierro!
- Sicario original screenplay: Fausto Alarcon here lacks the genuine care for his family that the film version has. One of the top chiefs of the Sinaloa Cartel, Alarcon is likened to a virus plaguing all of Mexico; it's noted that any murders carried out by the Cartel are perpetrated "with his hand or with his blessing." Alarcon's murderous reign is so brutal that entire houses are filled to bursting with the bodies of his dozens of victims, and he personally had the wife and child daughter of Alejandro brutally tortured, raped and murdered. When Alejandro comes seeking revenge, Alarcon tries to sacrifice his own wife to save his own skin, emotionlessly remarking "I love me more."
Edited by Ravok on Mar 1st 2024 at 1:10:27 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Not the Eye
Whisper
And here is my Yugioh guy
What is the work?
Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds is third long running anime of popular Yugioh Franchise or how it may be more know on the internet” CARD GAMES ON THE MOTORCYCLES”. It follows Yusei Fudo, turbo duelist from impovershed and exploited Satellite Sector, whose best friend Jack Atlas stole his original D-wheel and prized star Stardust dragon card, before becoming dueling champion rich and privileged Neo-Domino City. Of course this being Yugioh, his guest to retrieve his Dragon soon becomes secondary to crazy save the world plot.
Now, none of main villains keep, being well intentioned extremists or tragic villains, ultimate Big Bad actually wanting to stop the apocalypse. We do have two others who make it, Sayer, cult leader who wants to lead army of psychic duelists to war with rest of humanity, and Lawton, crime boss who rules over small town as tyrant and forces countless people into slave labor.
Coming from Fortune Cup arc, named by tournament meant to serve as way to get Chosen Ones meant to summon mysthical Crimson Dragon and save the world. As note, there are some diferences beetwen original Japanese and English versions, I’ll be going by english one.
Who is the Professor? What has he done?
Appearing in episodes 18 and 19 “ Return to the Spirit World”. The Professor (named Frank in original) is agent of Red Goodwin and secret society of Iliaster. The Professor is placed by Goodwin in tournament as agent just in case. That case happens to be when Luna, girl who can see duel spirits and one of Signers, switches place when her twin brother Leo. After intentionally losing his match, Goodwin has him and Luna duel in losers bracket so Proffesor could learn secret of Duel Monsters Spirit World Luna spent month in when she was young. During the duel, Professor hipnotises Luna, even having her sommon addorable Kuribon and equip him with spell that causes him to be undestructible, attacking him every turn and causing spirit Kuribon pain.
Eventually sucesfully sending Luna into spirit world and following her, Professor’s mere presence causes beautiful Ancient Forest to become dark husk, becoming even worse when darkness spreads from him and causes everything to start collapsing. While dueling Luna, now withous mask of sanity, he reveals he has no intention of giving spirit world’s secrets to Goodwin, unstead plotting to destroy and remake it into his domain. His destruction however causes forest’s guardian, Ancient Fairy Dragon, to break out of her imprisonment and try to crush him. Luna however uses spell card to end the duel in draw, leaving Proffesor mentally shaken and beaten as he exits the series.
Reddeming factors?
He seems like pretty nice dude at first, only for him to get into spirit world and be revelated as crazy Starscream with god complex.
Heinous standard?
For just villain of the week and minion of Iliaster with PHD in psychology, hypnosis and playing card games, he tries to destroy Duel Monsters Spirit World. Threathing the world in series is othervise reserved purely for guys like Dark Signers and Goodwin, who got power of Crimson Dragon and Earthbound Immortals, most villains being standard as hell or in case of two keepers we already have, being leader of powerfull cult of duelist who can make monsters real and wild west villain working on much smaler scale than them.
Conclusion?
Keep him.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 1st 2024 at 1:26:47 AM
Jogo
I think I can give a to the Professor, given that he attempts to destroy the spirit world while having comparitively low resources and he's only a Villain of the Week instead of a Big Bad or Dragon.
GX is definitely in the same universe as the original. I am not sure on the others since u stopped after GX.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Whisper...is there enough on page to establish a pattern to include the 60?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes. The story shows Whisper killing several people throughout.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 1st 2024 at 2:08:09 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cool. Then yes to him.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Whisper and the Professor.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, and sure to the Professor.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Uh sure to the professor.
Up their with Bronn for worst minor villain.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Ultimate Lifeform
Question for everyone. But has the second half of Dune been reserved by anybody? I'm about to watch it right now.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
For the professor. By the way, he may have the worst signature monster in all of 5ds.
Get a load of the effects of his main monster, Ido The Supreme Magical Force.
You cannot Summon monsters. You can only control 1 "Ido the Supreme Magical Force". If this card is destroyed by a card effect and sent to the Graveyard, Special Summon it from your Graveyard during the next turn's Standby Phase and destroy all other monsters you control.
This thing only only has 2200 attack. This thing is level 6, so it requires a monster to tribute in order to summon, and for some reason, it was a Secret Rare when it became a real life card.
Edited by crankers on Mar 1st 2024 at 5:12:10 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ravok has reserved discussion for it
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 1st 2024 at 3:32:20 AM
"No running in the halls!"
I hate spoilers
That's embarrassing.
Also, to the Professor, but only if we're talking about the dub version since he has minor but still noteworthy Dub Personality Change.
for Whisper and the Professor.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Here’s a candidate form a bad movie
What’s The Work?
Things is a 1989 Canadian film about two dudes, Don and Fred, visiting Don’s brother Doug’s home who end up having to deal with monstrous creatures inside the house that were created by a madman.
This movie is awful. It’s stupid, the voices are fucked up, it’s actually pretty decent on effects, nonsensical writing, and there’s a useless B plot on news reports starred by a porn star, for…some reason.
But yeah, there’s a CM here.
Who is Doctor Lucas? What Does He Do?
- A very unstable doctor, Doctor Lucas is introduced horrifically experimenting on a some dude, skinning his hand, scarring his face up while having his arm and his head chopped. Mutilated heads and bodies are littered around, hanging from the ceiling or being carried by doctor Lucas’ Uhh, assistants.
- It’s revealed that Doug and his wife Susan hired Doctor Lucas to have Susan be inseminated so they can have a child. Doctor Lucas ran experiments on Susan to get her pregnant. However when Don and Fred come to visit, the experiment went wrong and monstrous creatures burst out of her stomach.
- These “Things” are the result of Lucas’ experiment and Don, Fred and Doug try and fight back againts them. The monster kills Doug’s dog, and slaughters both Fred and Doug.
- When Don manages to survive the encounter, Dr. Lucas pays a visit where he is confronted by Don. Dr. Lucas attempts to pin everything on Don while mocking the guy smugly, before Don shoves him in the bathroom to be eaten by monsters while he makes his grand escape…
- Except, that was just a dream, and Don is still in the house. Dr. Lucas attacks him, bloodied, and Don shoves him back into a room as he barricades himself in the room, relived that he’s alive…except for one of the monsters inside the room with him.
Mitigating Factors?
…no. Just…nope. Appears twice. Is sadistic asshole in one and a smug deflector in another. Doesn’t really have anything. While the movie is just…bad. It’s still attempts to be taken seriously and stuff so yeah.
Heinous Standard?
Surprisingly speaking, Lucas is only heinous in his first appearance. While he did cause the monstrous experiments, he didn’t exactly intend for it to kill Fred, Susan and Doug, only attempting to pin the blame on Don. But his first scene has him horrifically torture a man to death while mutilated heads hanged on ceilings and corpses were being dragged and carried by his Uhh, assistants i guess. And he still ran expirements on a woman to get her pregnant which did cause the monsters and was still willing to pin the blame on an innocent man. So yeah. Clears imo.
Verdict?
Uhh, yeah lol.
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
A Child from the Stars
Whisper, Professor, Lucas
Quick note but my mistake on Ajin, the anime does diverge from the manga and I mistakenly thought his Sato's anime version was posted partway through it but reviewing his original EP I see that's not the case. He's got a write-up that details his crimes in it just fine but I'll do an entry for his manga version.
for Dr. Lucas.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
for Vandal, Ashley, Sato, Mysterio, Fierro, and the Minister.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.