Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
you made me think that there was a Nazi hypnotist in Pokémon with your writeup right under the Pokémon ones ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Bobby Roy and here’s a mythological one
What’s the work?
The legend of Lạc Long Quân is one of the most famous hero stories in Vietnamese Mythology. He faces two monsters who have been killing and eating people, this is one of them
Who is he and what has he done?
Hồ Tinh (Vietnamese for fox spirit) is an enormous nine-tailed Asian Fox Spirit with shapeshifting powers who likes to eat people, especially young women
His MO is to use his shapeshifting to disguise himself as people in order to lure people to his cave where he would torture them before eating them, sometimes using his disguises to trick people into turning against each other
In some version’s he primarily targets children
When Lạc Long Quân hears about this he’s horrified and goes to stop him, tracking him down to his cave, where he finds several people Tinh was planning to eat.
Hồ Tinh tries to kill him but Quân manages to trick him, trapping him in his own cave before cutting off his head and sinking the entire cave underwater
Redeeming qualities?
It’s also worth noting that in some versions Hồ Tinh is the name of his species and some fox spirits in Vietnamese myths are good
Heinousness?
Mass human eating as well as targeting children in some of the myths, he’s the worst of the monsters faced by Quân because he plays with his food by torturing them instead of merely eating them
Final verdict?
He gets a yes from me
Edited by LarryT on Feb 14th 2024 at 12:44:06 PM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Let us return to the Power Rangers universe now that I’ve done it for the Sentai. This will be a strange one because every other CM in the franchise is a major, if not the main, villain. This one is a MOTW (We have some MOT Ws who are C Ms in the Sentai, so it stands to reason there would be some here too.)
What’s The Work?
The PR season the proposed CM is in is Power Rangers Time Force. It’s considered one of the franchise’s most loved seasons. Most of the rangers in this are from the Time Force from the future (3000) while the red ranger is the present day ancestor of Alex, one of the Time Force members and the sixth ranger is a rival Anti-Hero of said ancestor. When the mutants from the year 3000, under the command of Ransik, head to try taking over Earth before Time Force even existed as some sort of revenge for humanity’s oppression of their kind (even if there’s not much to support it). The goal for these rangers is to reimprison all the mutants and take them back to the future, capturing Ransik as well. Unfortunately, the future is shifting the longer their mission continues.
This proposed CM is the MOTW of episode 27: Frax’s Fury, the episode where Ransik’s robot general Frax’s origins are revealed, as well as why Ransik has this problem where he starts to feel immense pain. One word: Venomark
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
- Venomark is a fellow mutant whose greatest joy in life is to infect others with a deadly poison, sparing not even his own kind from it. The only cure known for it was a vial from a human scientist: Dr. Louis Ferricks
- In the past (Well, Ransik’s anyway), he bit Ransik in an alleyway and infected him, causing
- He is the Small Role Big Impact villain of the series, as without him, Ferricks wouldn’t have met Ransik trying to heal him and Ransik wouldn’t have ungratefully taken his serum (which merely slowed the pain down) and destroyed his lab with the intent to kill him. Thus, it is because of Venomark that Frax (the robot that was once Dr. Ferricks) was born.
- He was deadly enough to be placed in the X-Vault upon his capture, as the most dangerous mutants are stored there.
- Released By Frax as a distraction so he can make his move against Ransik, Venomark goes on a rampage to infect countless humans in Silver Hill with his bite, intending to kill them slowly out of sadism. He is even shown doing this to children in a park and later four of the core Time Force Rangers, and was just about to infect Wes when Ransik shows up, saving him unintentionally
- He is a Dirty Coward, begging for undeserved mercy from him after he is outmatched by him and takes the opportunity of Ransik’s latest agony to flee and decides not to encounter him again.
- As Mr. Collins’ company develops the cure for Venomark’s poison (which wouldn’t have been discovered if Wes didn’t see him drink it and drop the tube with a sample still inside it), the mutant attacks to try infecting Eric and seeing that the rangers were cured, vowed to infect them again. During the battle, he was ready to destroy the serum samples to prevent his poison from ever being cured.
- The rangers manage to save the serum and cryo-freeze Venomark with the Shadow Force Megazord and the Quantasaurus Megazord. However, because of his release by Frax, Ransik was distracted long enough for Frax to destroy all the vials of serum that he had left, leading to Frax defecting from him and the events of the series that followed.
Mitigating Factors?
Let’s get this out of the way. Time Force’s main villains all have enough mitigating factors to never even come close to CM territory. Father and daughter Ransik and Nadira love each other and end up redeeming themselves, the former had a sympathetic backstory even though he went into Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse territory, the latter is too comedic, Frax is even more tragic, and Gluto is a mere dumb comic relief. Even most of the mutants are loyal to Ransik or have some good qualities like the Token Good Teammate Notacon and the Noble Demon Dash.
Venomark on the other hand never showed a single redeeming trait whatsoever. No indication of suffering racism by humankind to be used as a motivation. Rarely has any humor (what humor he does have never stops him from being treated as a serious threat). He works with Frax, but doesn’t show any signs of genuine loyalty or care for him. All he is is a sadistic pain-loving monster with cowardice on the side.
Heinous Standards?
Yes he is a MOTW, thus hardly going to match the threat level posed by the major PR villains alien or Earthbound. Even looking at Time Force alone, comparing him to Ransik is unfair as he is the usual boss of the Standard Evil Empire Hierarchy used by every Power Rangers villain organization despite not being an all powerful demon or alien. Venomark hardly had any resources outside of the backing of Frax, which didn’t give him much of a boost, yet still infected the population of Silver Hills, which would’ve slowly and painfully killed them. Pretty unique for a season that have mutants commit crimes like theft, destruction and murder of heroes. And this is not even getting into how his poisoning of Ransik caused the fateful meeting between him and Dr. Ferricks, which resulted in the creation of Frax. Even the other X-Vault mutants aren’t quite as heinous as he, as they are still standard MOT Ws that just happen to be more powerful and have no overarching role in the main plot.
Verdict?
Yes to the first Power Rangers Complete Monster of the Week, as he is quite a vile and impactful villain despite only appearing in one episode. I wonder if there are any other of these.
Edited by sethtropes on Feb 14th 2024 at 12:46:42 PM
Seth Moss
Not the Eye
Showtime!
to Ho Tinh
For Venomark, how much do the other villains threaten the lives of everyone in the town?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Goku Black
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Venomark
Motw tries to wipe out city is the normal plot. Like even his virus plot has been replicated a bunch of times in other shows.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
For my previous post on this proposal thread, I discussed about two entries form the normally lighthearted animated series The Simpsons, those being the two most vile villains to appear in the franchise, Kostas Becker from the two-part one-off episode "A Serious Flanders" and Russ Cargill from The Simpsons Movie, and I'd like to make two points to help clarify a few things.
- Firstly, while Russ Cargill does have a few gueninely funny moments throughout The Simpsons Movie despite being a vile character, the same cannot be said about the monstrous Kostas Becker from "A Serious Flanders", who basically walks right out of a serious drama and acts as a Knight of Cerebus throughout the entire two-parter. His vile deeds include brutally murdering the Rich Texan at the beginning of the episode, having Homer captured so he can act as leverage against his neighbour Ned Flanders, murdering Fat Tony, Legs, Louie and Johnny Tightlips during a shootout at Lard Lad Donuts and forcing Ned and his sons to go into hiding in Wyoming for three years and tries to kill him when Marge unintentionally reveals his hiding spot.
- Secondly, while Russ Cargill does have several redeeming qualities, such as trying to help contain the toxic waste to stop pollution, Kostas Becker has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, since he's such a sadistic and monstrous character. A few good examples of his sadistic violence would be when he uses a donut maker to turn Fat Tony's face into a donut and when he puts a salt shaker in Johnny Tightlips' left eye.
Thanks for a having a look at this proposal, and here's an image that can be put into the
◊ Image Links section for the Complete Monster page when available.
Edited by ThePrecisionDriver on Feb 14th 2024 at 2:05:19 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
I’m still saying to Russ and Kostas. Both aren’t played as seriously as you’re making them out to be.
Wiping out the city is the normal plot. Infecting people to kill them slowly (which by the way is venom, not a virus. It's not even called one.) is not.
Seth Moss
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Gonna have to oppose the Simpsons guy for reasons stated previously such as tone and heinousness issues.
And the image does not scream cm to me.
IPP Wick Check created.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
even discounting the fact that they’re not played seriously enough that’s not a great image, it’s just a guy in ominous lighting holding a pen and book
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by LarryT on Feb 14th 2024 at 12:53:35 PM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Ho Tinh
Next up from The Saint TV show:
What has Dr. Julius done?
- One of the two main villains of the season 3 episode "The Sign of the Claw," the man who calls himself Dr. Julius—which in all likelihood isn't even his real name, as he's cycled through a dozen names and nationalities over his long criminal career—is a Faux Affably Evil terrorist and war profiteer. The Saint hunts him all the way to Southeast Asia (it's never specified which country in Southeast Asia) after Julius murdered a friend of his back in Saigon.
- Dr. Julius' modus operandi is to sneak into the background of all manners of wars and conflicts so he can manipulate tensions and make them even bloodier than they already are. Case in point, when the Vietnam War was starting to wind down, Dr. Julius made a visit; by the time he left Vietnam, the war had flared up again and the fighting became even worse. And there was the Congo crisis in the 1960s, where Julius peddled arms and incited terroristic violence to keep the fighting going for as long as possible. Julius does all this, of course, for profit, reaping money off the death of hundreds of thousands, all while he hops from country to country so he can never be identified.
- Julius intends, in Southeast Asia, not to agitate a war but to start one. Teaming up with the episode's other villain, a racist businessman who wants to return Southeast Asia to an era of colonization, Julius intends to arm a group of terrorists with a huge cache of weapons so they can wage war on, and eventually overthrow, the current government.
- Julius kidnaps Simon, a farmer named Mr. Morland, and Morland's daughter. Julius cheerfully tortures Morland by squeezing his bullet wound and informs him that unless Morland cooperates with the Evil Plan, Julius will kill his daughter—and if he cooperates, he may get her back. It's hinted Julius plans on killing her either way. Simon confronts Julius over the murder he committed back in Saigon, over which Julius is smugly indifferent:
Julius: You follow me all over the world to avenge the death of one man?Simon: No. Thousands. That's your stock in trade, isn't it? Rabble-rousing. Death. Destruction.Julius: (grinning) I create "incidents," Mr. Templar! And happily…when men fire guns, someone gets shot.
- Unfortunately for Julius, Simon has made the government aware of Julius' would-be war, and his terrorist group is counterattacked before they have a chance to launch their first attack. Julius is shot while he's trying to escape, and if he survived that, he definitely didn't survive getting blown up with the terrorists' hideout a few seconds after.
- Nada.
- Probably the nastiest villain in the entire Moore series in terms of sheer scale. While I think his cohort is a bit more scummy when it comes to personal evil (and he's getting an EP too) Julius has, bar none, the largest body count in the TV show. Julius manipulates death and warfare on a huge scale, deliberately worsening historical conflicts like the Vietnam War, and he tries to set off another war that would span across Southeast Asia and return it to the hands of colonial racists. The only two villains who even come close to his level are his aforementioned cohort, and the Nazi war criminal I mentioned in Flandin's EP who will cap off the posts from the Moore show.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
to Dr. Julius abstain on Venomark for now
Goku Black
Julius
Ho Tinh, Julius
Not the Eye
Julius
Venomark and Simpsons duo
Goku Black
The thing with Venomark is. This show has run so long with so many uh varied Mos from monsters of the week. That I dunno if wajg he does even is taht special.
Virox frlm mega force (tries to convert huannity into alien mooks), Granitor from samurai wants people to eat tull they consume and their stomachs explode and fly trap from mystic force wants to convert every teenager in ymthe town to vampires which Will be destroyed come sun up. And theirs probably way more.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Hey fellas! After my suggestion for the Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings discussion paid off, I was thinking about another possible Indiana Jones candidate. What about Adolf Hitler? If I remember correctly, he has some screentime (or pagetime in this case) in the Novelization of Raiders of the Lost Ark...
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Julius. Honestly, he makes me wonder about the other two that got approved, but I guess they have different niches.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
I vaguely recall Scraggle saying something like there's not enough stuff he's personally responsible for/the big Nazi crimes you could normally attribute to him aren't in focus, but I could be wrong.
Yes to Tinh and Julius, no to Venomark
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Feb 14th 2024 at 4:06:15 AM
Showtime!
to Julius
....Phenomenal
for Ratko, Caddaja, Jake, Bobby, Ho Tinh, and Julius.
for Venomark.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Julius
Leighton(I like posthumous C Ms who had a reputation as good people), King Abimelech, Ninetails, Bagosora, Ho Tinh, Mladic, Jake, Simonyan, Kaddaha, Dr. Julius
Weak yes to the Advisor. I think his curse and the attempt to spread it is quite terrible. His conquest of the world is still vague.
Yes to Sekhmet and Vanitas (excellent work gentlemen and thank you for your conscientious and accurate work).
Here's the updated image◊ for my previous proposal.
Edited by ThePrecisionDriver on Feb 14th 2024 at 2:09:21 AM
I don't think that's a ZCE, it's a short entry but some CMs just have short entries. Can we ask whoever commented it out why they did it?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?