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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#31528: Dec 2nd 2023 at 3:14:47 PM

[tup] to Willy Mack, Grimthorn and Dr. Carter Nix Sr.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#31529: Dec 2nd 2023 at 5:07:24 PM

No to the Justine quote.

Sarah Ravencroft sounds bad enough on paper. So [tup]

[tup] for Nix Sr

umaprasis Since: Jul, 2023
#31530: Dec 2nd 2023 at 5:19:10 PM

[tup]Nix and Willy

Link's Reawakening: Ganon after his defeat makes a deal with the god of evil Zanterian to gain the power of the orb of darkness after losing the Trifore to unleash his army to burn and ruin all of Hyrule. Using his new powers he torments Link's mind to that the hero is trapped in a nightmare that leaves him screaming in pain. With the hero out of the way the king of evil orders a attack on Hyrule leaving Kakariko village in ruins with a mother and child being among the causalities.

Edited by umaprasis on Dec 2nd 2023 at 5:22:53 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#31531: Dec 2nd 2023 at 5:28:18 PM

[tup] Nix

@Mir Ah fairs so there's nothing there for us to judge unlike say the Nibiru entity which has onscreen mass murder under it's belt.

Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 2nd 2023 at 1:29:03 PM

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
MermaidEyes15 A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds from The Grand Dance of the Vast Universe of Life Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Puppy love
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
#31532: Dec 2nd 2023 at 6:01:57 PM

  • Fanscription: What If Boo Grew Up?: Randall Boggs and Johnny Worthington lll are the main sources for the energy crises in the city. The two work together to bring back mass children scaring, with Randall Boggs disguising himself as Everdark, a social media influencers encouraging young children to become violent and attack the monsters, despite them trying to entertain the children, while Worthington created a mass army of invincible monster robots, strong arming a desperate Celia to sign off on them to replace the monsters. With Randall throwing Boo/Mary in prison by the police and Worthington kidnapping Mike Wazowski, the two plan to Mass scare children across the world, not caring for any mental trauma they get. When confronted, Worthington threaten to blow up the group of monsters while attempting to crush Wazowski with his foot, as Randall uses a robot Everdark to beat Sully to near death.

[down] Thank you

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:05:07 AM

Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#31533: Dec 2nd 2023 at 6:03:52 PM

[up] "disgusting himself as Everdark" should be "disguising himself as Everdark"

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#31534: Dec 2nd 2023 at 6:30:41 PM

Yes to Nix.

Now, here's my effortpost, as promised.

What is the work?

Cat & Mouse (Roland Mann) is a Superhero comic scripted by Roland Mann, with one run starting in 1990, the other starting in 2019.

Per the page description, "In the second run, Brett Huffman attempts to track down Bobbi Vasquez, the younger sister of his former fiancée Jennifer, after she runs away from foster care, and discovers that Bobbi has gone from one bad situation to another."

At the center of this particular bad situation is Bobbi's supposed mentor, Ms. Lorinda Johnson, AKA the "Widowmaker".

Who is the Widowmaker and what has she done?

Lorinda Johnson is the misandrist head of an assassination and forced prostitution ring who has Bobbi under her thrall.

The Widowmaker regularly takes in runaway girls, brainwashes them, and trains them as assassins ("Widows"), including Bobbi Vasquez herself.

When Brett Huffman, Bobbi's would-be brother-in-law, tries to find her on behalf of her sister, Jennifer, he discovers a group of young girls in cages, who beg for his help so that Widowmaker doesn't sell them.

After setting a few of her Widows loose on Brett, Widowmaker has her assassins leave him for dead.

Subsequently, the Widowmaker is revealed to target the families of Widows who do not complete assignments.

When Brett attempts to show Bobbi the cages where the trafficked children are kept after she reveals that her foster father sexually abused her, the Widowmaker orders Bobbi to kill him.

Eventually, Bobbi is assigned to accompany the Widowmaker as she completes a trafficking shipment.

Bobbi confronts the Widowmaker, who uses her misandry as an excuse for trafficking children.

Once Bobbi subsequently refuses to comply with the Widowmaker's order that she kill Brett, the Widowmaker threatens Jennifer, Bobbi's sister if Bobbi doesn't comply.

In the final confrontation, Bobbi, along with Keith "Demon" Greyson, Brett himself and Kunoichi, attempt to face off against the Widowmaker, who has rigged her base to explode before escaping.

The Widowmaker is currently at large as of this writing.

Heinousness, or How bad is she?

In the 1990s run of C&M, the Yakuza were involved in assassination and organ harvesting.

If we take other comics into account, I haven't read Silverline Team Up Featuring The Champion And Ms Fury, but I have read Demon's Tails, and the cult leader, Brother Isaac, attempts to perform human sacrifice, extracts Keith "Demon" Greyson's blood to obtain power, and has apocalyptic delusions.

In the 2019-23 run of C&M, here, we have Widowmaker who explicitly brainwashes underage girls into being murderers and threatening their families if they don't comply. What pushes her over, in my opinion, is the fact that she is a child trafficker. To top it all off, she burns down her base of operations, endangering all the inhabitants. She is a different version of evil than Bobbi's foster dad, himself a predator.

As a sex-slaver she's arguably far worse.

Mitigating Factors?

The Widowmaker is literally a kiddie-pimp who uses the gender of boys as a hollow excuse to traffic them, sells them to male clients, abuses her Widows, and even occasionally traffics girls. Suffice it to say, she doesn't care about other women any more than most incels actually care about masculine welfare.

We see at least 7 trafficked children, and it's indicated (outright confirmed, in fact) to be a regular occurrence. Offpage Villainy is not an issue.

Verdict?

No doubt.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:41:15 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#31535: Dec 2nd 2023 at 7:11:45 PM

Easy yea there, Sky!

Will have a Pixar-adjacent baddie coming in the next day, stay tuuuuuned.

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#31536: Dec 2nd 2023 at 7:12:46 PM

[tup] Widowmaker

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#31537: Dec 2nd 2023 at 7:18:46 PM

[tup] Widowmaker

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
DoodSlayer136 Woagh from Pizza Tower (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#31539: Dec 2nd 2023 at 8:35:21 PM

[tup] Widowmaker.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#31541: Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:46:36 PM

Yes to Lorinda. Seems like a worse Dreykov.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#31542: Dec 2nd 2023 at 10:16:02 PM

[tup] for Nix and Widowmaker. Insert Overwatch joke here.

[tdown] for Sarah.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#31544: Dec 2nd 2023 at 11:36:51 PM

[tup] to Widowmaker

Edited by ForgoLight on Dec 2nd 2023 at 11:37:09 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#31545: Dec 3rd 2023 at 12:04:54 AM

Are we still doing video suggestions? I've got one of the Evil Entity.

From the start to about 1:55. Thoughts?

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#31546: Dec 3rd 2023 at 12:18:34 AM

[tup]widowmaker

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheLaurelCrownedRaven Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
#31547: Dec 3rd 2023 at 2:28:05 AM

[tup] to Nix Sr. and Widowmaker.

Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#31548: Dec 3rd 2023 at 2:34:42 AM

[tup] to the Widowmaker. And she gets away huh.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#31550: Dec 3rd 2023 at 4:01:38 AM

A villain who kidnapps younng girls and force them to become assassins alled Widows? Never heard that before.

[tup] for Drey... sorry I mean Widowmaker.


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