Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Adar's post on the The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power page is incomplete.
Since we're super slow on this thread, does anyone mind if I just bring up cuts for Magic the Gathering a bit early? It's been a week and a half since the relevant material.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm fine with that. JW how many candidates you looking at?
Edited by WetFlannels on Apr 7th 2023 at 5:05:45 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I'm just gonna go ahead and do it.
The original collectible card game Magic: The Gathering recently finished another major story arc by having the Mechanical Abominations of New Phyrexia, introduced way back in 2010, begin a multiplanar invasion and subsequently be defeated by a coalition of Planeswalkers. Two of the Praetors, or leaders, of New Phyrexia are currently listed as Magnificent Bastards, namely the White Praetor and overall leader Elesh Norn and Blue Praetor and Evil Genius Jin-Gitaxias. I'm going to be motioning for a cut against both today.
Elesh Norn is the far more obvious cut as she suffers a whole blown Villainous Breakdown when her arch enemy Elspeth Tirel correctly calls her out on not truly caring about Phyrexia's mission and instead launching the invasion for her own ego. Norn goes into a rage trying to kill Elspeth and starts throwing random objects at her, even tearing off Jin-Gitaxias's arm when he tries to calm her down. When Elesh Norn gets fatally wounded, she pitifully tries to run away while telepathically begging the other Phyrexians to come save her. Easy easy cut and I'm going to propose her for Complete Monster soon as well.
Jin-Gitaxias getting his arm torn off finally makes him realize how unstable Elesh Norn has become and he plans to overthrow her in her weakness and assume control over Phyrexia. He does this by gathering a tank of his own creations and going to ambush her as she tries to crawl away. The problem? Two Planeswalker groups are separately working to rescue Phyrexia's prisoners and also shut down the corrupted World Tree they are using to invade multiple planes. This might have been an acceptable time, had an entire army of invaders hadn't also just been teleported in to directly take the fight to Phyrexia's main forces. Thus, Jin-Gitaxias makes the truly colossally stupid move to launch his coup right in the middle of a massive battle against an invading enemy army. Predictably and easily, an animal rider aims straight for Jin-Gitaxias and knocks him into his tank and he gets eaten alive by his own creations. So, I say an easy cut here as well for choosing the truly worst possible time to try to backstab his leader and get easily owned as a result.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Caesar
Sounds like both Norn and Jin-Gataxias can be snipped
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Yeah cut them both.
This sucks.
By the way, would it be safe to say that All For One needs a check too? Again, the character derailment is too immense that I can't let him stay.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Apr 8th 2023 at 4:26:01 PM
Not the Eye
Cut Magic duo
Buzz
In light of two pending writeups for the Mahabharata, I'd like to bring this up again, as it got no feedback the first time around.
To be clear, Shakuni can stay, but I think his entry should be modified to clarify that Bhishma's misdeeds were only done in later versions of the story
Original Writeup
- Magnificent Bastard: Shakuni, prince of the Gandhara Kingdom, sought revenge for the misdeeds done against the Gandhara dynasty, especially his sister Gandhari, by Bhishma. The Sole Survivor of the conquest, Shakuni blossomed into a clever, shrewd, and patient villain who hatched a variety of schemes to pit the Kauravas and Pandavas against one another. He began by grooming his own nephew Duryodhana from childhood into an obedient pawn, starting with innocuous acts that escalated into convincing him to poison Bheema. When faced with failure, Shakuni simply opts to move onto another plan—one such included inviting his enemies into the House of Wax, hiring help to melt the palace without implicating himself. His most ingenious maneuver came in the legendary dice game against Yuddhisthira where the silver-tongued Shakuni preyed upon Yuddhisthira's gambling addiction and manipulated him into losing his wealth and kingdom. Ultimately instigating the Kurukshetra War as desired, Shakuni continued to use his intellectual talents by putting Shalya under a hospitality debt to grant Duryodhana an excellent commander-in-chief. The epic poem's craftiest and most devious mastermind, Shakuni fulfilled his vengeance even after death.
Proposed update
- Magnificent Bastard: Shakuni, prince of the Gandhara Kingdom, sought revenge for the misdeeds done against his family at the hands of Bhishma in later re-tellings of the epic. The Sole Survivor of the imprisonment, Shakuni blossomed into a clever, shrewd, and patient villain who hatched a variety of schemes to pit the Kauravas and Pandavas against one another. He began by grooming his own nephew Duryodhana from childhood into an obedient pawn, starting with innocuous acts that escalated into convincing him to poison Bheema. When faced with failure, Shakuni simply opts to move onto another plan—one such included inviting his enemies into the House of Wax, hiring help to melt the palace without implicating himself. His most ingenious maneuver came in the legendary dice game against Yuddhisthira where the silver-tongued Shakuni preyed upon Yuddhisthira's gambling addiction and manipulated him into losing his wealth and kingdom. Ultimately instigating the Kurukshetra War as desired, Shakuni continued to use his intellectual talents by putting Shalya under a hospitality debt to grant Duryodhana an excellent commander-in-chief. The epic poem's craftiest and most devious mastermind, Shakuni fulfilled his vengeance even after death.
I removed the reference to his sister because at worst, she blindfolded herself willingly. Meanwhile the rest of his family was starved to death.
I also think that the Mahabharata should be on the Mythology page. Hindu Mythology includes many entries centered around the epic and the story itself is strongly intertwined with Hindu Mythology as it includes deities and characters with pre-existing backstories (Parashurama and Krishna). Even Hanuman has a cameo
I'm only requesting feedback so that I don't end up making any unilateral changes
Edited by Paperfly on Apr 8th 2023 at 2:17:26 AM
Image Pickin' Backlog
Goku Black
Cut Elesh and Jin
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
About MagnificentBastard.One Piece, Dracule Mihawk has his own page.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Cut Elesh and Jin.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Cut Magic duo, Paperfly's changes look good, and go ahead and pothole the name.
Would need more specific feedback on All For One to weigh in.
Cut the Magic duo, I'm cool with the rewrite and isn't MHA wrapping up? AFO's the Big Bad and to my understanding getting new info in practically every issue. I'm open to discussing a cut but I can also see why it might just be worth waiting it out to be sure as developments are going to be constant with him from here to the end.
As I have said repeatedly now, MHA is in its last arc. Let's please wait until it's done before we talk ALL For One.
Agreed, as is there's way too much going on, as you'd expect of a work getting through its climax and if we take note of every weekly update it's just going to get confusing.
@ Seig, Thanks, I'll try and get that in today.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 8th 2023 at 12:32:07 PM
The Moron
I'm gonna be honest, is it worth adding All for One to Resolved Items until his arc finally ends? It feels like we get asked about cutting him once a month and every time the answer is the same - wait until the end. Would that be worth it or nah?
Let us just wait until the final arc ends before we decide on All For One
Lizzid people!
I agree with putting him on resolved until his arc ends.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I don't know enough to comment... if the manga's wrapping up soon I think we can just wait it out, if the final final is still off in the distance I'd be okay with a note.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
I know his standing is bad at this point, but we need to wait for the final arc to end so we can make our final evaluation on All for One.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Anyway, it's been two weeks since the chapter in question was officially released, so I'd like to discuss whether or not we cut Eustass Kid.
- Eustass Kid is the Captain of the Kid Pirates, a member of the Eleven Supernovas and a far more brutal counterpart to Luffy who has killed anyone who ever mocked his dream to be Pirate King. Allying with Luffy against the Pacifista, Kid later hits the Grand Line and begins to clash with the Four Emperors, even sinking Big Mom's ships and eluding their forces until he is bested by Kaido. Escaping with Luffy and allying with him and Trafalgar Law, Kid eventually clashes with Big Mom herself, working in tandem with Trafalgar Law to topple Big Mom from her throne and claim victory.
For context, he tried to launch an attack on Shanks again, despite the previous encounter ending in failure and costing him an arm (where he didn't even reach Shanks himself). His only plan was announcing his arrival and charging up his Punk Vice ti fire lasers at the Red Haired Pirates' fleet. Shanks, seeing this coming due to his advanced Observation Haki, jumped to Kid's ship and blocked the laser, knocking him out and decimating most of his ship. Shanks then has Dorry and Broggy sink Kid's ship, sending him and his entire crew into the sea.
Whether or not Kid's actually dead, as is, he recklessly rushed to fight Shanks without an actual plan, nor did he have any contingency in case "blast them all with lasers" failed. Granted, he might come back, but with how long that may take, couple with the massive blunder that led to him losing his ship and crew, I believe that as of now, we unfortunately should cut him. If he happens to bounce back if he ever returns, we can rediscuss him then.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Apr 9th 2023 at 1:03:54 PM
I would wait until the current arc is done. I do agree once that comes up I wouldn't be opposed to cutting (since it's a very bad end), but Oda has brought characters back before. More to the point the wording he uses is apparently (I don't read japanese, this is just based on something I read so take it with a grain of salt) the same as when the straw hats were defeated at sabody archipelago. Although reading the official translations they don't match up (They use eradicated for straw hat defeat and destroyed for Kid's defeat).
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
It’s Just for Fun, so it can’t have YMMV, period.