Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Mweheheh
From Monster.Shin Megami Tensei:
- Masayoshi Shido is behind the atrocities of the game, profiting off the other villains. Using his abandoned and illegitimate son, Goro Akechi, Shido has him assassinate both his enemies and allies who have outlived their usefulness to work his way up to becoming Prime Minister of Japan. Stealing the research of Wakaba Isshiki before having her killed, Shido also uses his influence to ruin peoples' lives, driving Isshiki's daughter into depression and getting Joker placed on probation for trying to stop Shido from harassing a woman. Using Akechi as a mole within the Phantom Thieves, Shido plans to have them arrested for getting in his way and for the Protagonist to be tortured and murdered. After Akechi is defeated by the Thieves, Shido is revealed to be planning to dispose of his son, and pins his own crimes on him after killing the mentally unstable boy. When defeated, Shido's final action is to destroy his own Palace in an attempt to take the Thieves down with him. While Shido claims to be acting for Japan's greater interests, in reality he values only power and glory for himself.
Doesn’t he fail the moral agency test since Yaldabaoth was controlling him the whole time?
Peace is the only battle worth waging.
A nice swimmer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't think so. Yaldabaoth was preying on the embodiment of Japenese society not wanting to change and finding comfort on letting things like they are, which Shido used at his advantage (even if unknowingly) to put himself in power alongside Mementos and a whole slew of other stuff. He wasn't even a victim of him up until his shadow was captured after being defeated, and even then his shadow is a different being from the man himself.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Odd, I'm not sure Harriet's a cut. Hell, I'd at the very least vote for keeping her original version.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Von Schlitz, Gerald Wintergreen, Animal Farm, Horace Pinker, Freddy Krueger and "Naughty" John Hobbes rewrites; abstain on Dr. Death, tentative cut to Harriet, keep SCP-106.
About Shido, was Yaldaboath directly mind-controlling him or subjecting him to More than Mind Control, or was Shido just an Unwitting Pawn? If it's the latter, I'd say keep him.
Does anyone have any last things to say about these four rewrites, or the Lord Commander rewrite? No-one has said anything in objection to them or otherwise since that latest post, and Ozai, Goth, Genisys and Azog have already gotten more approvals than disapprovals including those of the original entries' writers; so are Ozai, Goth, Genisys and Azog now okay to go in the Drafts page in 24 hours? If you're against that, speak now or forever hold your peace.
Edited by Derv0sB2 on Apr 7th 2023 at 4:25:03 AM
There was no mind control with Shido. The connection between him and Yaldabaoth boils down to the latter giving Akechi his powers, which is what enabled Shido to do what he did. Everything Shido did was entirely of his own free will with no outside tampering.
So, lemme note...with the release of the prequel to Furie, Thanh Soi's gotta go. The prequel, Furies, or literally: "Thanh Soi: Pain Changes People" gives her a hell of a sad backstory, but ultimately shows she still loves her "sisters" and chose the name Thanh Soi to honor them.
Not sure why they decided the child organ trafficker needed to be woobified but there we go.
Not the Eye
Cut Thahn Soi.
Is film any good at least?
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 7th 2023 at 8:26:15 AM
@ ACW: I did try to get people to comment on what I said about Harriet, but they didn't seem to comment other than cut.
I even provided links to the notes and provided counterpoints for Harriet Morse while ACW noted that her Graceful Loser moment was in the extended edition and not in the original version.
Cut Soi and keep Shido
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 7th 2023 at 11:26:45 AM
The Moron
G, people are allowed to disagree with you. Seeing your comment and then saying “cut” isn’t “not being bothered” to respond, it means that people still vote cut. We know you have your thoughts but people clearly disagree so please just let this discussion go - it’s been four days with the majority clearly leaning one way, this seems pretty cut and dry
And while I’m at it since it’s apparently still going, cut Harriet.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 7th 2023 at 11:34:21 AM
Look G I'm going to be blunt, those notes seem to indicate enough genuine concern behind them that I can't just say they're window dressing. Hell her blackmail material on him is very minor compared to others. Coupled that with getting raucously drunk I don't think you can just push it over as meaning nothing. Friendships are not just something you toss aside because you want a character to count.
Just so I'm clear here: Cut Harriet.
Edited by jjjj2 on Apr 7th 2023 at 11:38:27 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Earnestly rather frustrated we're getting blasted for feeling she doesn't keep... remember, community thread, civility, etc. please.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Though question: Are we allowed to keep the Harriet from the non-remake or whatever?
Cut Thanh.
Edited by ACW on Apr 7th 2023 at 11:56:33 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ACW most of those potential cut reasons are coming from the original game. Not to mention the Graceful Loser moment isn't a new version, it comes from free DLC. It's canon to the experience as far as I'm concerned.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I wasn’t concerned about whether people disagreed with me or not. I just wanted people to throughly give thoughts, look into these factors and when ACW said that they may not be so militating I just wanted to hear what others have to say about Morse other than “cut her” before we make an official decision. In fact, I was the one who brought Morse he with concerns on if she needs to be cut
@ACW: only the Graceful Loser part was in the extended part/DLC. The Odd Friendship with Frank was in the original edition as well
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 7th 2023 at 1:11:38 PM
Goku Black
Cut Harriet and Tanh
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Two grammar notes on the Resident Evil page:
- The writeup for REmake Brian Irons says "When one of the children manage to escape," which seems like it should be "When one of the children manages to escape," since it is talking about a single person.
- The writeup for Vincent Goldman says "He creates the virus by kidnapping children and torture them for days" when it should be "kidnapping children and torturing them for days"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll request those.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Best Smile
Cut Than Soi.
Freddy, Pinker, and Hobbes rewrites.
The wifi here sucks
Cut Harriet
Can I get some feedback on this rewrite?
Lizzid people!
Looks pretty good.
I found this on Sandbox.Ice Heart:
- Complete Monster: Evangeline and the Soul Thief.
Goku Black
Seems to be part of a sandbox. Pm them and tell them that after they launch the page they can properly vet the examples in the proposal thread. But that YMMV tropes don't go on main
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
21 The way I see it, Yaldabaoth literally pulled a More than Mind Control on the public to revere Shido as a God, not Shido himself. It's more of a case where Shido will do that sort of stuff as soon as he gets enough power.
By the way, can we place Porky Minch into the Never Again list? I think he's murky enough and I saw him brought up a bit too often over the years to be comfortable.
Basically something like:
Definitely not a CM:
- Mother 3: Porky Minch (His characterization is too ambiguous and enigmatic for any proper qualifiers.)
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Apr 8th 2023 at 5:16:15 PM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Hey, fun fact about Ice Heart. That example is ancient. Very ancient. There's a namespaceless page just called /IceHeart and if you check the contents of it via this link you'll see that the CM examples is there, too. The content was pasted into the sandbox to be salvaged, but there obviously hasn't been any clean up.
Well I've looked at the total vote regarding for Harriet Morse to be cut.
Well the majority have voted to cut like Harriet. I guess ACW will let the mods know to remove her
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 7th 2023 at 11:26:50 AM