To-do list:
- The trope has been renamed to Boyfriend-Blocking Dad, so move any examples of fathers strongly opposing boys who want to date their daughters to the new name, and move misuse to a more fitting trope if one applies (such as the ones listed on Overprotective Dad, which is now a disambiguation page), and remove any examples that don't have a more fitting trope to move them to.
The wick check shows that, while the majority of examples are correct, about 24% of them refer to a general (over)protectiveness towards their children (e.g. not allowing them to leave the house, keeping close surveillance on them, ensuring that they don't participate in any "dangerous" activities, etc.) and makes no mention of the children's love life. Another 22% are ZCE, and 17% are unclear.
Conclusion: 1/4 misuse is not insignificant, but how we go about fixing this would depend on several questions:
- Is the "general overprotectiveness" trope keepable on its own right, or is it already covered by other tropes such as Meddling Parents, My Beloved Smother, Papa Wolf, Mama Bear, etc.? ** If it's redundant to the other tropes, we just need to move the incorrect examples to the more appropriate trope.
- If not redundant, and the "general overprotectiveness" becomes a trope on its own, what should be done with the current definition (fathers who are hostile towards daughters' love interests)? They could either be split or kept as one page.
- If kept as one page, the description should be modified to include the broader definition.
- If split, which definition gets to keep the old name?
- If not redundant, and the "general overprotectiveness" becomes a trope on its own, what should be done with the current definition (fathers who are hostile towards daughters' love interests)? They could either be split or kept as one page.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 17th 2022 at 2:08:27 PM
the Retromancer
The main problem with No New Stock Phrases was that we had a lot of fake tropes that are literally "a quote occurs in fiction". If people understand that there's a trope inside and not an occurrence of the trope name, it shouldn't cause an issue.
Though should there be a rename suggestion that is a noun, I'd prefer that.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
The only thing I can think of is Daughter Dating Ban but I don't know if that's accurate to the trope or if it's clear enough.
Macron's notes
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Back to the drawing board, I guess, though we'd need at least one adjective in addition to a noun (which would probably still be "dad").
Ninja'd. Daughter Dating Ban sounds fine pending further suggestions, and it focuses on the daughter instead of the dad despite what I previously said.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 5:29:00 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
No, that wasn't the main issue. Eddie made it clear during discussions that the main practical issue is the grammar rules thing. It makes such tropes prone to underuse and to inappropriate potholing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
What about Daughter Banned From Dating?
Kirby is awesome.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Maybe Banned From Dating His Daughter if we want to include a reference to both the daughter and her dad. It could be used as part a full sentence instead of being a sentence itself if we're going by that: "Bob has Charlie Banned From Dating His Daughter".
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
the Retromancer
Daddy's Girl Is Off-Limits, Parent's Ban On Romance, Date Hating Parent?
Actually does the gender of both strongly matter?
Edited by Amonimus on Nov 14th 2022 at 7:46:35 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Hi
Daughter-Dating Disdain or Daughter-Dating Discouragement?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Daddys Girl Is Off Limits has the same issue as My Daughter Is Off Limits. That, and the daughter doesn't necessarily have to be a Daddy's Girl.
Those might work.
We might have enough options for a crowner (which wouldn't include My Daughter Is Off Limits or Daddys Girl Is Off Limits), but I'm too tired to sort through it.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 10:47:39 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I feel most of the new title suggestions don't take into account that the dad is supposed to look extremely irrational/unreasonable/hostile, not just disapproving, or else this trope would just sound like a more specific version of Love-Obstructing Parents.
Har har har
I was thinking "Dad Hates The Boyfriend" might work as a name. Originally I was thinking "Hands Off My Daughter" but now I think it's too ambiguous.
Please visit the "AITA" forum game
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
But that one sounds a bit too much like Dating What Daddy Hates.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Ridiculously Restricted Dating Life? That might require amending the trope to gender neutral.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I feel that we should address whether to expand the trope to be gender-neutral before we decide on names, so let's do that.
In the meantime, taking what BlackMage43 said about reducing confusion with Love-Obstructing Parents might be worth working on when brainstorming names.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 7:37:21 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Do non-father/daughter examples exist?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Fantasy Maiden's Odd Hideout has a father-son example.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
No, because this trope will continue to be about parent-child interactions. I tweaked the crowner to clarify the fact that the only change is that examples involving a mother, a son, or both will be allowed to reduce confusion over the expansion's scope.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 10:08:57 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Although the non-father-daughter relations seem to be exception, so I don't think we need to make the name too broad that it would have too much overlap with Love-Obstructing Parents.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Considering how often Love-Obstructing Parents has come up, should we add another option for overturning the rename decision in favor of merging with that trope? I was already considering asking that earlier today, but the most recent mention of Love-Obstructing Parents has led me to go ahead and actually ask, particularly because overlap is caused by definitions and not names.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 10:47:35 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
(she/her)
I guess we can add that option if there's support for it.
If we do merge, the description of Love-Obstructing Parents has to be rewritten because it's focusing on the parents of a character's partner/"in-laws" blocking their relationship.
Edited by MacronNotes on Nov 14th 2022 at 11:49:19 AM
Macron's notes
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I suppose another option would be to call off expanding the definition of this trope if father-daughter examples are common enough to keep it separate from Love-Obstructing Parents.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm just going to go ahead and call off the expansion and hook a rename crowner because it seems like the problem with the expansion is related to the definition and not the name. Normally I dislike calling off votes via mod fiat (as opposed to redoing a crowner due to post-crowner objections from non-mods), but if an expansion could potentially open the possibility causing overlap with Love-Obstructing Parents, then I'd rather avoid another incident in the vein of Ukefication being renamed to Wimpification causing more misuse instead of less, or The The Title being renamed and retooled into Definite Article Title making it Chairs.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 11:04:28 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
OK, crowner hooked, with a handful of entries with "Daughter Dating" in them having alternate versions with "Dad's" put before them to indicate that it's the father who's opposed to them.
Edit: I mentioned what I did to the other mods, and at least one of them thinks My Beloved Smother may already cover mother-son examples, so that might be something to put in the description of whatever we end up calling this trope (if it isn't there already).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 11:10:54 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
Consensus was to rename Overprotective Dad due to misuse to refer to fathers being overprotective in general, as opposed to fathers strictly forbidding boys from dating their daughters. What should the trope's new name be? (Addendum: The crowner title mistakenly says "Obstructive Dad" instead of Overprotective Dad. Due to technical limitations, correcting it without starting over is not possible.)
Wow. No New Stock Phrases manages to miss out the biggest problem with dialoguey trope names; they do not neatly fit into sentences since they are grammatically meant to be used as standalones.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman