To-do list:
- The trope has been renamed to Boyfriend-Blocking Dad, so move any examples of fathers strongly opposing boys who want to date their daughters to the new name, and move misuse to a more fitting trope if one applies (such as the ones listed on Overprotective Dad, which is now a disambiguation page), and remove any examples that don't have a more fitting trope to move them to.
The wick check shows that, while the majority of examples are correct, about 24% of them refer to a general (over)protectiveness towards their children (e.g. not allowing them to leave the house, keeping close surveillance on them, ensuring that they don't participate in any "dangerous" activities, etc.) and makes no mention of the children's love life. Another 22% are ZCE, and 17% are unclear.
Conclusion: 1/4 misuse is not insignificant, but how we go about fixing this would depend on several questions:
- Is the "general overprotectiveness" trope keepable on its own right, or is it already covered by other tropes such as Meddling Parents, My Beloved Smother, Papa Wolf, Mama Bear, etc.? ** If it's redundant to the other tropes, we just need to move the incorrect examples to the more appropriate trope.
- If not redundant, and the "general overprotectiveness" becomes a trope on its own, what should be done with the current definition (fathers who are hostile towards daughters' love interests)? They could either be split or kept as one page.
- If kept as one page, the description should be modified to include the broader definition.
- If split, which definition gets to keep the old name?
- If not redundant, and the "general overprotectiveness" becomes a trope on its own, what should be done with the current definition (fathers who are hostile towards daughters' love interests)? They could either be split or kept as one page.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 17th 2022 at 2:08:27 PM
(she/her)
You can't escape this monster
The trope currently encompasses two different definitions. I'd be down for a split between literal overprotective dad (under the current name) and the parent vrrsion of My Sister Is Off-Limits.
I'm mainly a fan of underrated media.
the Retromancer
Thinking if Knight Templar Parent is expanded to allow downplayed examples, it'd be possible to disambiguate Overprotective Dad between mentioned in the OP.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
And a recent discussion raised up the issue of the scope:
As it currently stands, the definition focuses on the dad being hostile towards the daughter's love interests or going through extreme lengths to make sure no guy even looks at her wrong; but what about cases where the father only gets antsy about the daughter "growing up too quickly" by dating, getting pregnant, etc., but doesn't actually threaten or harass the love interest?
If we split the trope, where would the second type of examples go?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What would be the difference between the proposed literal overprotective dad split and Papa Wolf? I feel like rename would be better than a split if we want to get the part about not letting his daughter get near any potential love interests across, not just because of Papa Wolf, but because of the other tropes about overprotective parents that have been mentioned. (Though I'm leaning toward disambiguating because of all the other tropes mentioned in this thread for overprotective parents.)
Retooling proper usage into downplayed examples of Knight Templar Parent might be doable. As a side note, I noticed the pothole for dads in that trope's description's text about overprotective parents links to Papa Wolf and not Overprotective Dad, despite the latter having "overprotective" in the name.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 7th 2022 at 1:48:34 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I agree that the examples that take Overprotective Dad at face value are likely covered by Papa Wolf and Knight Templar Parent. We would still need to split off the My Sister Is Off-Limits parental edition trope that OD was supposed to be.
If there are enough examples in current wicks/on page examples, we could draft that trope in a sandbox and put it up. otherwise, yard the idea.
either way, disambig-ing the page between PW and KTP sounds good.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
It would be a rename instead of a split if we keep the current definition of Overprotective Dad under a new name without making any new trope pages, but we could still turn the old name into a disambiguation page, since that's something we often do.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Doesn't Dating What Daddy Hates already cover the "dad is overprotective of men dating their daughter" concept?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Not really, that's more about teenage girls falling for boys their dad wouldn't approve of; the dad doesn't have to disapprove of the girl dating in general.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Re disambiguation: I think there's some slight differences between the OD misuse and the other tropes, although admittedly not that many. Papa Wolf and Knight Templar Parent are specifically action tropes. The dad commits badass acts to protect their children (or child substitute), with the latter when they take these acts too far and harm people who aren't even trying to hurt the child that the trait becomes less noble and more unhinged.
Parents who do things like, disallow their child to play with other kids out of fear that they might get hurt if the games get too rowdy, falls under neither trope.
Meddling Parents probably covers the rest and can be added to the disambig (though tbf that page's description is a bit...odd and could probs do with a pass over, but I digress)
Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 7th 2022 at 8:59:22 AM
Well, according to the description, Meddling Parents are about parents who still try to get way too involved in their kids lives even when they're already adults, which may or may not include excessive protectiveness. Granted, it goes all over the place with the "subtypes", but generally this doesn't qualify for parents whose children are still, well, kids or in their teens.
Edited by Adept on Nov 7th 2022 at 11:50:48 PM
Amending my previous statement, since I did a quick wick check on Meddling Parents, with none of the examples mentioning the kids' age, although a cursory knowledge of the works in question would show that most of these Meddling Parents' children are either still actually kids or at best teenagers.
So, possible action plans would be:
- Split the current definition of Overprotective Dad to a new name.
- Disambiguate Over Protectivedad to Mama Bear, Papa Wolf, Knight Templar Parent, Meddling Parents, My Beloved Smother and other tropes.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Are we good to go with those options, or is there anything else to add?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I guess there's nothing more to add, so crowner hooked.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 11th 2022 at 1:17:02 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I think we can call this now.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of renaming and disambiguating the old name after the page is moved.
What are our options?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
The first thing that comes to mind is My Daughter Is Off Limits, although I'm not sure if we can use it because it's a stock phrase.
(she/her)
It's not an actual stock phrase. Just a dialogue sounding title (yes, I know that's also frowned upon but still) . We have My Sister Is Off-Limits so I don't see any problem with it.
Edited by MacronNotes on Nov 14th 2022 at 5:28:46 AM
Macron's notes
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. Seems like a case of a snowclone that would make things better instead of worse, similarly to when we renamed I Liked It Better When It Sucked to So Bad, It Was Better due to misuse.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2022 at 4:29:24 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
the Retromancer
In case the definition is still "A parent is obstructive to child's potential or imaginary romantic interests" instead of general overprotectiveness (Now that I think of it, that's just be Papa Wolf and Mama Bear), My Daughter Is Off Limits is fine, really.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Yeah, misuse to refer to general overprotectiveness is why we're turning the original name into a disambiguation page after the move, instead of just redirecting it.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
My Daughter Is Off Limits is not fine. It is dialogue. The policy exists because these titles are a problem, not being a "stock phrase" does not mitigate the main issues.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
(she/her)
I don't see how My Daughter Is Off Limits will cause any of the the issues that caused Administrivia.No New Stock Phrases to be put in place. I don't think people are going to focus on it being a line of dialogue. My Sister Is Off-Limits hasn't caused any issues so I don't see why My Daughter Is Off Limits would.
However, if it's against policy, I guess we just have to come up with something else.
Edited by MacronNotes on Nov 14th 2022 at 6:05:40 AM
Macron's notes
Crown Description:
Consensus was to rename Overprotective Dad due to misuse to refer to fathers being overprotective in general, as opposed to fathers strictly forbidding boys from dating their daughters. What should the trope's new name be? (Addendum: The crowner title mistakenly says "Obstructive Dad" instead of Overprotective Dad. Due to technical limitations, correcting it without starting over is not possible.)
To-do list:
The wick check shows that, while the majority of examples are correct, about 24% of them refer to a general (over)protectiveness towards their children (e.g. not allowing them to leave the house, keeping close surveillance on them, ensuring that they don't participate in any "dangerous" activities, etc.) and makes no mention of the children's love life. Another 22% are ZCE, and 17% are unclear.
Conclusion: 1/4 misuse is not insignificant, but how we go about fixing this would depend on several questions:
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 17th 2022 at 2:08:27 PM