Needs Help: Spiritual Successor

Yeah, that's the tricky part. Spiritual Successor was such a good name for a sequel/spinoff in all but brand name, hopefully we get a vote for a new name for the trope about successor works by the same creator(s).

EDIT: Maybe Creator-Driven Successor could work.

Edited by JustaUsername on May 17th 2022 at 11:49:55 PM

Would Serial Numbers Filed Off cover that?

Or maybe something else on either the Derivative Works index or This Index Is Copypasted.

Or if that isn't enough, should we redo the crowner again if we've hit an impasse? I suppose we could have an option to retract the definition-only vote and retry the YMMV vote. If we remove this from Definition-Only Pages without making this YMMV, that would basically be a vote to do nothing with this.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 4:32:49 AM

I don't think we need to remove it from Definition Only, the current definition is so muddled and meaningless that making it even YMMV seems sort of foolish. But, we'll see how this goes, I guess...

IDK if the thread was really at an impasse though, it seemed more like we were discussing making a new trope.

Why make a new trope when this one can be used? Alternatively, we could split off the examples for shared creators while still allowing examples for this.

Edit: I added that option.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 5:43:56 AM

Since JustaUsername has a good point about Spiritual Successor being a good name for examples of works from the same creator, I added another option for restricting Spiritual Successor to the examples that were being discussed (works that have the same characters/continuity as the original and/or have the same creator as the original) and making it Trivia instead of YMMV (because it wouldn't be subjective if we restricted it to these examples; it would be background information instead).

I think I've got things figured out with the new crowner now that the two new options have been added; I admit I might not have thought the previous one through, but I feel more confident about the current one as of the addition of the options related to works with the same characters/continuity and/or creator.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 5:56:38 AM

Not sure about Spiritual Successor name for Trivia, but there are a lot of cases of "Indirect Spin-Off" that could go to it.

I don't get the last crowner option and I think that's why it's getting downvoted. If it features the same characters and continuity, then it's not "spiritual," it's just a straight-up Spin-Off? It makes more sense if it's the same creative team doing something similar but with new characters in a new continuity.

That would explain why it's getting downvoted. I added new versions of those options that omit the "same characters/continuity" part while keeping the part about the creator(s) being the same.

Surprised no one has suggested a Word of God requirement and keeping examples. Assuming the admission is common enough to warrant it?

It doesn't seem to vibe with what the wick check shows but might be worth discussing regardless.

Yeah, I'm not sure that'd pan out. Like you said, there's no wicks of it, and WOG is often hard to come by anyway.

Yeah, we can't retool something into something it isn't being used as. An attempt to do that without checking for existing examples led to the demise of Suddenly Sexuality.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 1:09:25 PM

Sorry to ask for proofreading in TRS of all places, but the crowner description has "impasses" when singular "impasse" was meant.

Fixed.

Edited by MacronNotes on May 18th 2022 at 9:09:20 AM

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of "Remove Spiritual Successor from Definition-Only Pages". I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.

It was a typo. I don't think I was completely awake at the time.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 19th 2022 at 4:50:43 AM

Fixed up another grammar issue in one of the options. It should no longer say "has the same has the same".

It happens.

Question. Since they're very closely related, would this effect Spiritual Adaptation in any way?

Yes, but Spiritual Adaptation doesn't have a wick check as far as I'm aware, so it's just going to sit alone until it gets one.

Right, I only checked this one because...

Well, frankly, I think I was just sick of seeing it tossed around on every work page I went to.

Wait, what was the problem with making this Definition-Only? The concept is recognizable enough for Wikipedia to have an article on it. (Yes I know we're not Wikipedia but it's still noteworthy.) I don't see the issue there if examples are stripped on and off the page.

Also, wouldn't moving this to YMMV lead to overlap issues with Spiritual Adaptation?

Edited by Karxrida on May 20th 2022 at 1:48:31 AM

Honestly, if we make Spiritual Successor YMMV, I don't think there would be any problem with merging Spiritual Adaptation with it since the description for the latter makes the overlap obvious on its own, while the wick check for Spiritual Successor showed that Spiritual Successor's examples already overlapped with Spiritual Adaptation. There wasn't a wick check for Dewey Defeats Truman when it was merged with Failed Future Forecast via the thread for The Great Politics Mess Up.

Edit: I tagged Spiritual Adaptation's page with the same tag as the one on Spiritual Successor's page, because I don't see any problem with running a crowner for whether to merge the two. However, it'll have to wait until Monday because that's when the current crowner will be called.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 21st 2022 at 7:40:59 AM

Some examples should be checked to see if they fall under objective tropes or Trivia items as well, particularly if they were made by the same creators.

Edited by nw09 on May 23rd 2022 at 1:02:17 AM