Characters.Pokémon Reorganization/Cleanup

On Bulbapedia's article for Goh's Pinsir, they still refer to the Stag Beetle Pokémon as an it because Goh only referred to it as "a good guy", don't go by subs as subs take liberties and the staff never actually referred to her as a her, as seen here: Talk:Goh's Pinsir. What should we do?

Hi!

In-universe, Dragon-types tend to be rare and powerful (If less so post-Gen V) and are most often used by the most powerful Trainers in a given region and are often revered (Even apart from the fact that they comprise a good portion of legendary Pokémon), so if we're going by notability then it is notable enough to add to a character's trope section that they use one or more Dragon-types, and I'd consider a rival to be notable enough for something like that since apart from actual nominal importance their use of Dragon-types implies that they have the type of character needed to use them effectively.

As for Grant, Tyrantum shares Signature Mon status with Aurorus so I feel even without the stuff I mentioned aside the entry should stay.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

Yeah and speaking of, the "Dub-Induced Plot Hole" on All For the Love of Meloetta! should be removed because it claims the "plot hole" is Iris referring to Cynthia as a Dragon-type trainer even though she has only her Garchomp (at the time). In the games, Cynthia is referred to as a Dragon-type trainer even though for most of the games, she only has Garchomp.

Hi!

I'm not convinced by this. Unless they're the most normie of NPCs, all the named trainers are 'important' in some way.

Take a look at Characters.Pokemon Diamond And Pearl. Fantina, Aaron, Cynthia, Palmer, and Riley all have Dragon Tamer listed because they have a single part-Dragon Pokemon. I could give Cynthia a pass because it's her ace as the champ and honestly said Garchomp is Memetic Badass. But the others:

• Fantina: Uses Giratina (Dragon/Ghost) one time for an event outside her own game. She is a ghost-type trainer. She uses Giratina not because she has an affinity or even association with dragons, but because it's a Ghost-type Legendary that happens to also have a Dragon typing. Can't make the Signature Mon argument.
• Aaron: Uses Flygon (Bug/Dragon) as part of an optional rematch (so you can't even say Signature Mon either). Again, he is a bug-type trainer that uses Flygon because it has a Bug typing.
• Palmer uses a lot of 'intimidating' Pokemon, not just Dragon-types.
• Riley's entry just says this?

None of these entries anything about their fortitude or strength as a trainer, and using "well, A is the Gym Leader of B city so obviously they're badass enough to be considered one" feels like shoehorning because every game has 8 of those.

Tl;dr I don't think Dragon Tamer should apply to 'every named character who has a dragon mon'. Either hype them up for it, make it an important factor in their team, or remove.

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 10th 2022 at 11:22:31 AM

Flygon isn't Bug/Dragon, it's Ground/Dragon.

But yeah, I agree. Just using one Dragon Type pokemon doesn't make you a Dragon Tamer.

Do types really warrant having three characters pages? The description of the main one says "Game Freak and the fandom have added more than enough depth to the types to make them characters in their own right", but what does that even mean?

I will crosspost it to this thread but I do not believe that types should be on a character sheet. Those describe moves, not characterization.

Any objections to removing the Elemental Powers tropes for the human characters as outlined here?

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 13th 2022 at 9:28:09 AM

Agreed, remove Elemental Powers and change to Elemental Motifs for their type specialty if applicable.

Keet cleanup

No objections.

Macron's notes

I agree with that chsnge as well.

Would anyone mind if I added a link to the Pokemon species pages on their respective game pages? For example, on Characters.Pokemon Red And Blue, I would add something like this:

For a list of Pokemon that debuted in these games, see Pokémon: Generation I Families.

Makes sense to me.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

Sure.

Keet cleanup

Also, Pokémon: Recurring Archetypes irks me because it's redundant with the actual Pokémon's character entries and feels like it's begging for shoehorns.

Edited by NitroIndigo on Apr 22nd 2022 at 8:14:33 PM

Yeah I don't really get why it's there, I'm fine with cutting it

Hayley from Pokémon Other Non-Playable Characters and Grand Oak from Pokémon Professors aren't on any of the new character pages. Considering Brigette is on Characters.Pokemon Ruby And Sapphire, can we add them to the generations they appeared in (Hayley on Characters.Pokemon Diamond And Pearl and Grand Oak on Characters.Pokemon Sword And Shield)?

Also, did we have consensus to use the Sugimori art for Unown? And can we change Lance's image on Characters.Pokemon Red And Blue to his Let's Go art◊ to match the rest of the Elite Four? I changed it on the sandbox, but someone reverted it to his HGSS champion art before it was swapped in. Image Pickin' is pretty full right now and I don't want to fill two slots just for this.

Edited by rjd1922 on Apr 24th 2022 at 10:22:17 AM

Keet cleanup

I think we had Sugimori consensus, but I don't remember the exact details.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

I'm thinking of hiding alternate forms in note captions to avoid clutter. Example:

What do you guys think?

I support that.

I agree with that change, though perhaps not for regional variants since they often have different evolutions, and for Pokémon where no form is the "default" like Shellos, Gastrodon, and Basculin.

Edited by rjd1922 on Apr 26th 2022 at 1:56:52 PM

Keet cleanup

^Agree

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Related franchised character sheet: Characters.Pokemon Adventures is split by "Pokémon Adventures - Dex Holders", "Pokémon Adventures - Allies", and "Pokémon Adventures - Enemies". It made a bit more sense when we were about ~4/5 gens in, because the Kanto/Johto/Hoenn kids meet each other and have supporting cast overlap, but afaik each story arc since then has been a bit more divorced. Any objections to splitting it up by region as well?

If none of those three pages are too long, then there's no need to reorganize it into eight pages.

I've been hiding alternate forms of Pokémon in notes. Thoughts about Lance's image mentioned above?

Edited by rjd1922 on May 2nd 2022 at 12:21:57 PM

Keet cleanup

Lance can really go either way, because he's more prominent in the Johto games than in his "home" games. It does make sense to use his Kanto art for consistency.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

^^Like I said, the issue is less length and more that the current organization is not optimal Cast Herd organization, same with how the game sheets used to be. The Unova-and-onwards storylines have little to do with each other, so it makes more sense to group by region than by vague allegiance.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 3rd 2022 at 1:56:25 PM

I've noticed a lot of examples that seem like the troper who added them only looked at the trope's name. For example, I just removed two examples from the Tapu folder because there was misuse of Clucking Funny as "chicken onomatopoeias exist" and Paint It Black as "black palette swaps exist".