Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Sepitimus, what we're objecting to isn't the "Just" part, but the fact that "Fun" is broader than "Gags and Jokes". Incorporating a game-like page doesn't violate the definition of "fun".
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Exactly. If it had two extra letters and were called Just For Funny, then the argument that it's joke-specific would make more sense.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 23rd 2021 at 11:46:47 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Even with that definition of "fun" a page about classifying works by scientific accuracy doesn't fit the scope. The science fiction scale at least is frequently referenced in discussions about scientific accuracy. With a definition of "fun" that broad you'd include virtually all tropes and Audience Reactions of the site there.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
As I previously said:
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Well, er... I don't really agree with that at all since most of those concepts don't seem very fun to me. But let's talk on the other thread.
We do have Sliding Scale...
Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 23rd 2021 at 12:49:42 PM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
It wasn't a rock
The four pages have been tagged, in hopes it brings people to discuss the matter.
1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die (all editions) progress: 426/1089 (39.12%)
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to moving them to the Sliding Scale if needed.
Maybe we need a crowner?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
It is? I thought it had been three days.
Good lord I’ve been all fucked up today. Maybe I shouldn’t post until tomorrow.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Should we have a crowner for whether to move these to the SlidingScale/ namespace? I think we should leave Just for Fun off the crowner due to the slow pace of the Wiki Talk thread on that namespace, and since these pages are sliding scales anyway.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 25th 2021 at 8:27:41 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Also Sliding Scale is indexed under Just for Fun, so it'd be redundant.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Crowner hooked for whether to move these to the SlidingScale/ namespace. I advertised the crowner on ATT.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 25th 2021 at 9:03:39 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I feel like I'm kind of alone in thinking that these four tropes aren't created equal:
Science Fiction Hardness is the odd ball out since unlike the others it does not treat the 10 point Mohs' Scale as gospel - it only has six categories. As such there's more clear-cut lines between, say, a 2 and a 3. "Hard" and "Soft" Sci-fi are terms commonly thrown around in the greater Sci-fi community and aside from this page we don't have any explanations for the terms. I think I might argue for a Useful Notes page on the differences between "Hard" and "Soft" Sci-fi if this ends up deleted or banished to some no man's land.
Violence Hardness is somewhere in the middle. I think the damning flaws of this and the two musical scales is their adherence to the 10 point scale - 10 points is a lot and several of the numbers are just "it's a little bit bloodier than the number before it" and there's some numbers that are fairly redundant, like 3 and 4. That said, there are some hard and fast rules for what goes where - particularly, there's a hard and fast rule that on-screen rape can't go lower than 8. This one seems like it would fit in best at Just For Fun.
The two music ones... how do I put this delicately, they just aren't tropeworthy at all. How intense a song is musically/lyrically is so subjective I can't even in good faith say they'd make good JFF pages. There's so little differentiating any one number there from its neighbor numbers. I feel like both of these are better summed up by the Lyrical Dissonance page because the only noteworthy examples are the ones that are really high in one regard but low on the other. Also, every single example on the Rock and Metal Hardness page is a web link.
I looked at the Science Fiction page on the scale of Hardness and found it witty and informative. I mean, using a quote from "Back To The Future" as an e ample of "Soft Science Fiction" gets a thumbs up from me!
I think it could work at JFF. It is parodying a type of academic writing, right down to having a "Notes" section.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The reason I didn't put Just for Fun in the crowner is partially because Sliding Scale appears to be a subset of Just for Fun (if its indexing is anything to go by), and partially because the Wiki Talk discussion on Just for Fun's purpose didn't really get hashed out.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Well, I wouldn't agree with defining "hard Sci-Fi" and "soft Sci-Fi" through an Useful Notes page because defining terms used when discussing fiction is what the Main/ namespace [and commonly, Definition-Only Pages] is there for.
Incidentally, and related, I kind of agree that the music scale is totally arbitrary and that the number of "steps" in the violence needs to be reduced.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Though we can absolutely make definition-only pages about the two terms in main/; I don't see why not actually.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I am not particularly convinced that making two pages is warranted. One page will serve, but only if the namespace move doesn't happen otherwise everything will be duplicated.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Why would it be duplicated if we don't move the namespace?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
We already have the information on Science Fiction:
In general, without getting too much into the advanced and diverse subgenres of science fiction, there are two schools — 'hard' and 'soft'. While the distinction isn't always clear cut, there are a few key differences. Hard science fiction relies on using already established science or justifying its fictionalized science using carefully calculated predictions. Hard SF tries to use the advanced technology as something that is important in itself, with its consequences, limitations and new uses being the main plot points. Due to the heavy focus on the scientific aspect, this is a rather niche market. Soft science fiction includes everything else, and generally falls under two major schools - adventure/pulp science fiction (which includes the Space Opera) and social science fiction. The former uses technology as a means to an end, merely a backdrop that allows The Captain to fight for Justice™ with a Stun Ray against the evil aliens and have space sex with the Green-Skinned Space Babe, instead of having to have him use a boring, ordinary gun and have boring, ordinary sex, with the boring, ordinary-skinned Earth babe. In the latter, the technology is used as a means of exploring characters and its social/psychological effects. Of course, it is entirely possible to have an action packed adventure story with deep social commentary. In both schools of soft science fiction, it usually doesn't matter whether the technology used is actually plausible or not, and there is often little to no explanation as to how the technology would actually work. Otherwise, it may rely on such devices as Techno Babble to maintain a "sci-fi" atmosphere without the author actually having to use detailed scientific principles. Because hard science fiction tends to focus more on scientific detail and soft science fiction focuses on well developed characters and/or adventure, there is a divide between certain sections of the fandom. This divide has been around since, essentially, the very beginning of the genre.
However, "hard" and "soft" say nothing about quality or literary value, just the level of scientific detail and accuracy used.
As with everything, there is often a blend of Hard and Soft science fiction. It is perfectly possible to write a hard Science Fiction story about The Captain running around shooting people with miniaturized microwave emitters designed to incapacitate people without killing them, shooting aliens and having sex with Green Skinned Space Babes (with no chance of conception because green aliens are biologically incompatible with humans), just as one can go into considerable detail justifying otherwise implausible technology that is much like magic (usually accomplished by deliberately altering basic scientific laws) and its effects on scientific research. This can often lead to Hidden Depths.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think that's a good enough reason to not make separate pages for hard and soft science fiction. (Splitting that paragraph wouldn't hurt, though, due to how long it is.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 26th 2021 at 7:16:25 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
It would be multiplicated if we did a namespace move, because then we'd require two pages (one in SlidingScale/ and the other in Main/).
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Well, that's why I suggested moving the informative bits to the Main/Useful Notes page.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
That would still result in duplication. And it wouldn't be the appropriate namespace anyway!
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Crown Description:
Should the Mohs Scales (Mohs Scale Of Rock And Metal Hardness, Mohs Scale Of Lyrical Hardness, Mohs Scale Of Science Fiction Hardness, and Mohs Scale Of Violence Hardness) be moved to the SlidingScale/ namespace?
Let's move this discussion here.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.