Author's Saving Throw cleanup

I feel the example is valid because I feel the footnote counts as a citation. (To be fair, I can see where you're getting at with the updated version itself being the citation.

It does have a few issues though: it linked Flame Bait (i.e. Unfortunate Implications), something that's no longer a trope (namely Critical Research Failure), and misuse of Leaning on the Fourth Wall^note granted, I haven't watched the Director's Cut version. Those links can easily be removed, though.

Alright. So permission to restore with some cleanup, then?

From YMMV.Digimon Data Squad:

• Author's Saving Throw:
  • Previous series (with the exception of Digimon Tamers), received some flak for The Hero and The Lancer being the only ones able to reach Mega level, which made the rest of the team be Overshadowed by Awesome. Not only does Data Squad have all the main quartet reach Mega Level, all of them also get acces to Burst Mode, which was seen by many as an improvement and one of the better aspects of the season.
  • Yoshi's inferiority complex, which explained away her Faux Action Girl status and allowed her to get better at contributing to situations on her own terms.
  • One of the biggest complaints of Frontier was the humans being able to fight on their own came at the cost of having no partner Digimon, abandoning the Mon concept that is the foundation of the franchise. In here, both humans and Digimon partners are equals in terms of contributing to the fights... only for arguments to flare up again when only Marcus did any actual fighting while the other three humans barely got their hands dirty.

1. I think I can change it to Improved Second Attempt.
2. ...Maybe Salvaged Story? I don't know.
3. Natter.

Thoughts?

• My thoughts on those examples.
  • I'm leaning on saying that I agree and that that's Improved Second Attempt instead.
  • I agree it sounds closer to Salvaged Story, assuming that was badly received.
  • I'd cut it; it kinda sounds like one of those (misused) Author's Saving Throw entries that lack Word of Saint Paul or Word of God.

Hello, I was recommended to come here if I have questions about the changes being made to Author's Saving Throw. So my understanding of Salvaged Story is that it's when a sequel/prequel introduces a retcon that fixes a problem people had with a previous instalment while Author's Saving Throw is now trivia for when a creator acknowledges an issue. So what is the current rule for changes made in a story that doesn't fit either of these categories? For example, some of the examples given for Salvaged Story for Spider-Man: No Way Home aren't the result of retcons but are just the writers telling a story in a way that fixes issues that people had with previous films. No Way Home doesn't retcon Andrew Garfield's performance in his original films, it just shows that he got bad scripts. So do they go under a different trope now or should they just be removed?

Salvaged Story doesn't have to be a retcon to count, no. It just has to be a story element that audiences approve of and consider among themselves to be a fix/improvement on a fkawed or botched idea.

As for other tropes if you're unsure, the following might be helpful:

• Character Rerailment
• Culturally Sensitive Adaptation
• Improved Second Attempt
• Salvaged Story
• Polished Port
• Remade and Improved
• Surprisingly Improved Sequel
• Win Back the Crowd

Improved Second Attempt is probably another good place to look, as we created that trope to accommodate a particularly common category of entries that fell under the old definition of Author's Saving Throw.

Thanks, that helps. But I think Salvaged Story needs to rewritten, how it's currently written implies that it's only for retcons. This is what it says on the first paragraph:

"Sometimes, writers misjudge things. A story doesn't work, or characters act out of character, or the end result cuts off lots of potential for interesting new stories. Most of the time, writers respond by simply ignoring the problem and moving on. But sometimes, they manage to salvage it with a few choice retcons. This trope is for when that happens."

That very specifically says that this trope is for when retcons fix a problem.

Yeah, it could probably be rewritten, since what we call Revisions (some would argue it's just another form of retcon) are also a common way to salvage a story.

I'm leaning on saying the main page for Salvaged Story needs to be rewritten too, though you might want to take that to Trope Description Improvement Drive.

Reposting.

I'm unsure if the aforementioned first entry counts since I don't know if the head writer^note or any other writers for that matter said they made Sakura badass (or just made her period) to resolve complaints about how they treat female Riders. Do you know about what he said? If so, that would help.

Regardless if the first stays or not, the other entries need to go since they lack confirmation. If the first one stays, I'd put the parts in parentheses under notes. I'd also delete the part about her being Bash Siblings with several other characters because I feel it's unneeded.

Found that Persona 5 has its own page.

Thoughts?

Can anyone help me identify which parts of AST in YMMV.Star Vs The Forces Of Evil should be moved to Trivia, Salvaged Story, or cut? I didn't watch the show in full, so I'm not sure.

• Author's Saving Throw:
  • Two concerning "Running With Scissors":
    • The second "#MarcoLIVE Animated Live Chat" had Marco considering the sixteen years he spent chasing Hekapoo as something he remembers like a hazy dream or an old childhood memory. This gave the heavy implication that Marco was still mentally fourteen years old, which more or less Hand Waved why the effects of his time in the Neverzone weren't present in future episodes, and alleviated many shippers' concerns over whether or not it was appropriate to keep shipping Marco with anyone. When Marco's adult self does return, it's treated as if Marco is a completely different person than his teenage self.
    • Conversely, many fans were upset that Marco's time in the Neverzone and the ending's implication that he would have a rough time readjusting to Earth was seemingly dropped and Hand Waved away, with him not retaining any of his badassery from the experience, leaving many feeling They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot. Seasons 3 and 4 not only make numerous call backs to Marco's time in the Neverzone, but make it a major aspect of his character.
  • "Heinous" was the first follow up episode to "St. Olga's School for Wayward Princesses" but was rather mundane and anti-climatic since most of it involved the Diaz parents treating Miss Heinous more like a neighbor than a villain, and not allowing any battle between her and Star and Marco. Come "Princess Turdina" where Miss Heinous returns and finally gets to have her evil colors shine, making it a more appropriate sequel episode to "St. Olga's".
  • After many fans had assumed that the writers simply brushed the events of “Starcrushed” under the rug, “Booth Buddies” finally has Marco acknowledge Star’s feelings for him. It’s stated in-universe that Marco tried to ignore the awkward tension between the two and he does realize how much things have changed between them.
  • As fans felt Marco and Jackie's breakup happened unceremoniously in Season 3, the Season 4 episode "Britta's Tacos" gives proper closure to their story.
  • As the racist attitudes of Mewmans has been expanded upon in Seasons 2 and 3, it made them come off as one dimensional bigoted jerks, but Season 4 ends up putting a more realistic spin on it. "Down by The River" has the Maizleys as the viewpoint characters as they are subject to Eclipsa's new pro-monster reforms. Their predicament of being displaced from their home is portrayed sympathetically, showing how such policies that favor an oppressed race aren't always a good thing, and the Maizleys along with everyone who used to live in the now-destroyed capital, just want to survive. It comes across strongly in the Series Finale; Most of the Mewmans who volunteered to become Solarian Warriors stopped following Mina after they were freed and were happy about it, showing that in spite of their own racism, they prefer to live life rather than let it define them.

Edited by TroperNo9001 on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:35:51 PM

If any double-bullets don't have any confirmation from Word of God and/or Word of Saint Paul regarding why the work was changed, cut away.

Edited by ElRise on Mar 30th 2023 at 12:51:07 AM

Done.

I want to hear an opinion about this in Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Jo Jolion, as these were originally under Author's Saving Throw before they were moved to Salvaged Story.

• Salvaged Story:
  • JoJolion seems to have a conscious aversion to forgetting its older characters, unlike many previous parts like Diamond is Unbreakable and Golden Wind. When the focus of the story shifts from Josuke's Quest for Identity to Josuke trying to save Holly, many of the characters introduced early on seemingly drop out of the narrative completely. Later chapters bring many of characters back in a major way, at the very least giving some closure on their whereabouts.
  • Relating to the above, JoJolion has the highest density of female main characters since Stone Ocean. This includes Yasuho, who manages to be just as badass as the rest of the protagonists while having a Stand that isn't even suited for combat.

A problem I see is that Salvaged Story page says it only applies to installments within the same continuity. JoJolion is in a different continuity from all the parts mentioned in the examples. What should be done with this?

Since they're from a different continuity, I feel they don't count.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Mar 31st 2023 at 11:44:56 AM

Feels like Improved Second Attempt

These were added to YMMV.The Legend Of Heroes Trails Into Reverie and since these are the now the deleted AST entries, I'm kinda unsure of them.

• Improved Second Attempt:
  • The concept for this game was, in part, thought up due to the developers previously not getting the chance to show off Crossbell's liberation, an event first mentioned at the end of Azure. For players disappointed about the liberation being an Offscreen Moment of Awesome up to this point, this was good news indeed.
  • The confirmed lack of Bonding Points was also welcomed by many people who thought that Azure and the Cold Steel games had too many important character moments locked behind optional scenes that can't be seen in a single playthrough.
  • The True Reverie Corridor provides Post Endgame Content, allowing replayablilty with all playable characters even after achieving 100% Completion. This is a feature that was previously only implemented in the Crossbell games and those were locked behind a New Game Plus.

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Mar 31st 2023 at 6:13:46 PM

The SBR/JJL/TJJL universe has aspects of an Ultimate Universe, so it would go under Improved Second Attempt.

Got it. I moved the examples in Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Jo Jolion to Improved Second Attempt.

Any thoughts on ?

For my thoughts

• Maybe
• Maybe cause I myself am glad that important events aren't tied to character bonding
• Unsure

I don't think so with the first one because Improved Second Attempt seems to just involve plotlines/characters. As for the others, maybe, though the third one doesn't mention the bad reception part. I'm also unfamiliar with the community so I don't know about its reception.

I'm curious, do we have a trope that covers when a serial work adjusts trivia-related aspects of the work, such as the delivery format of later seasons or being clearer and better at communicating news about an upcoming series to appease fan criticism, without stating it outright? It's not direct storytelling so it doesn't count as Salvaged Story, and it's still the same story so it's not Improved Second Attempt. This is one of the examples I'm thinking of:

• Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation: Mo Dao Zu Shi: The second season of the donghua received some criticism due to its short length, which cramped up some crucial parts of the story such as Wei Wuxian's downfall as the Yiling Patriarch, which is one of the most important plot points of the novel. Season 3 went back to the more generous 12 episodes (shorter than Season 1's 15-episode run but longer than Season 2's eight-episode run).

Edited by AlleyOop on Apr 9th 2023 at 1:52:24 AM

Well, if it was done explicitly to respond to fan complaints about any aspect of the work, it seems valid to me.