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Ambiguous Name: Crush Kill Destroy

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thatother1dude Closing for the day from the land off the ill, annoyin' Relationship Status: Mu
Closing for the day
Jul 27th 2019 at 1:22:53 PM

The trope is about machines trying to kill people simply because they are malfunctioning.

An enormous numbers of example are written under the assumption that the trope is characters chanting the acts of violence they intend to commit, even if they aren't malfunctioning or machines at all.

The name should convey what the character is doing and why, not just what they might be saying at the time. Something like "Malfunctioning Means Murderous".

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Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Sep 11th 2019 at 12:02:30 PM

Bump, and I agree that a more clear name would be nice.

You don't mean no-nothing at all to me...
WarJay77 Simba is tired from Upstate New York Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Simba is tired
Sep 11th 2019 at 8:44:17 PM

[up] That'd work.

Female troper who likes Pokemon, ARGs, Writing, and more. / Links: Sandbox.Zero Context Example Thread - Sandbox.Roleplay Cleanup Thread
GastonRabbit The Duck Knight from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
bitemytail from Arizona Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Sep 11th 2019 at 9:15:33 PM

[tup]

Health sure is versatile. It's possible to be both light-headed and dim-witted. At the same time, no less.
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sep 12th 2019 at 6:15:42 AM

machines trying to kill people simply because they are malfunctioning
Are you sure? The fourth bullet is specifically about a machine made for combat.

Beyond that, I'm not clear on how Kill All Humans and Mechanical Monster are supposed to be different from this trope.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
GastonRabbit The Duck Knight from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Duck Knight
Sep 13th 2019 at 12:40:35 AM

[up]Then maybe we should cut it or redirect it to Kill All Humans or Mechanical Monster.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 13th 2019 at 2:41:02 PM

"Guess what? You got it for free. Are you proud of yourself?"
GastonRabbit The Duck Knight from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
nombretomado the formatting mod from just kind of around Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
the formatting mod
Sep 15th 2019 at 3:57:24 AM

I'm not sure Mechanical Monster is it at all.

Crush. Kill. Destroy! is about robots or machines going haywire and acting with unintended behavior, namely killing humans. Mechanical Monster is well, a strong mechanical being, with killing people provably being its intended behavior. Related, in that the haywire machine can become a monster, but not always.

Kill All Humans is a very wide trope, not limited to machines. Again, related, in that Crush. Kill. Destroy! can result in Kill All Humans, but not the same.

Edited by TrueShadow1 on Sep 15th 2019 at 5:58:50 PM

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sep 19th 2019 at 11:17:24 AM

robots or machines going haywire and acting with unintended behavior
That sounds identical to A.I. Is a Crapshoot. Is this supposed to be a Sub-Trope indicating when the haywire AI starts killing people?
Mechanical Monster is [when killing people is] its intended behavior. Related, in that the haywire machine can become a monster, but not always.
Your two claims are opposed to each other. The first states it is about intended behaviour, and the second is about actual behaviour. The malfunctioning machine is not functioning as intended, regardless of what the intended function was. Were you trying to say that Mechanical Monster is about the appearance, or can you rephrase the distinction?
Kill All Humans is a very wide trope, not limited to machines.
It isn't limited to machines, but you haven't explained where CKD occurs and KAH doesn't. What makes it different if KAH is done by lizard people versus robots?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Sep 19th 2019 at 2:05:28 PM

I think Crush. Kill. Destroy! covers two things:

  • A seemingly harmless Robot Buddy or domestic robot somehow, usually comedically, becomes a Killer Robot due to a malfuction.
  • A robot weapon turns on its master or otherwise attacks the wrong targets.

A.I. Is a Crapshoot is about AI, not robots. Robots can have AI, but some are mindless and can only do a few things, and the description for Crush. Kill. Destroy! implies robots more on the mindless end. Also, murderous AIs typically kill by controlling large systems (opening the airlocks, causing an electrical fire, piping in poison gas etc). Robots are typically hands-on. Edit: this doesn't appear to be how A.I. Is a Crapshoot is actually used, but I think it could be a useful distinction.

Kill All Humans is much broader- it can be by anything, for any reason. Crush. Kill. Destroy! is (or should be) specifically about a murderous impulse in a robot due to a malfunction.

Mechanical Monster seems to me to be about a Killer Robot or Mecha-Mook that is larger, more dangerous, and more deluxe than a regular offensive robot. It seems mostly unrelated to Crush. Kill. Destroy!.

Edited by naturalironist on Sep 19th 2019 at 5:07:18 AM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Sep 19th 2019 at 2:18:39 PM

It is a pretty common gag where a friendly robot has a hidden 'Kill Bot Mode' and they slip into it for a bit. Or gags where you see they have a switch or instructions to toggle that mode. Or in more serious cases have a malfunction or sabotaged to go into that mode.

Reading the examples specifically though a LOT of them cover the ALL... CAPS... ROBOTIC... phrases. IE "SEEK! LOCATE! EXTERMINATE!" or "Murder! Death! Kill! Annihilate! Exterminate!" Berserkers and Robotic Berserkers tend to do this but also Brainwashed and other things with limited faculties.

Divinity: Original Sin 2 has trained dogs devolve into speaking like this after training to be attack dogs (if you have the pet pal perk to understand them).

Both read like tropes to me.

Edited by Memers on Sep 19th 2019 at 2:24:19 AM

Sep 19th 2019 at 5:12:27 PM

Your two claims are opposed to each other. The first states it is about intended behaviour, and the second is about actual behaviour. The malfunctioning machine is not functioning as intended, regardless of what the intended function was. Were you trying to say that Mechanical Monster is about the appearance, or can you rephrase the distinction?
I did say "probably". Mechanical Monster is basically a large, monstrous, dangerous robots. Yes, appearance is partly a part of it, that it needs to look intimidating, but also needs to be dangerous.

  • A mechanical T-rex made by The Empire for war purposes is a Mechanical Monster.
  • A friendly elephant robot in a zoo isn't. But if it got infected by a malicious virus and starts rampaging (a case of Crush. Kill. Destroy!), it becomes one.
  • A palm-sized Robot Buddy who got infected by the same virus and also start rampaging isn't.

It isn't limited to machines, but you haven't explained where CKD occurs and KAH doesn't. What makes it different if KAH is done by lizard people versus robots?

Kill All Humans is a motivation trope. Crush. Kill. Destroy! is the circumstance that lead to that motivation. Whether there are any cases where CKD don't lead to KAH or not is irrelevant.

But yes, it can be, like if the haywire machine just goes on a mindless rampage on people around it. It doesn't seek to kill all people, it just kills people because they're nearby.

WarJay77 Simba is tired from Upstate New York Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Simba is tired
Sep 19th 2019 at 6:22:09 PM

Crush. Kill. Destroy! does heavily overlap with both Kill All Humans and Mechanical Monster, but given that not every Mechanical Monster goes through Crush. Kill. Destroy! (going from harmless to murderous), and not every case of Kill All Humans involves robots...I think there's a distinction here.

Kill All Humans is a broad supertrope, and I think the variation of an innocent robot turning into a killer is common enough and distinct enough to be it's own thing. Otherwise, it'll lump 'em in with Lovecraftian horrors, aliens, monsters...beings that didn't have to be corrupted in order to want to kill humanity.

Mechanical Monster would also be a supertrope, but again, I think there's enough of a difference as a robot starting out innocent and then going haywire happens enough to be it's own thing.

I think they're distinct, if heavily related, concepts.

Female troper who likes Pokemon, ARGs, Writing, and more. / Links: Sandbox.Zero Context Example Thread - Sandbox.Roleplay Cleanup Thread
Sep 19th 2019 at 6:45:06 PM

Any input with my post?

Sep 19th 2019 at 7:43:01 PM

I can see Kill Mode Switch being a trope on its own, as well as Robot Murderous Phrase.

Berrenta MOD Heating things up from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Heating things up
Sep 19th 2019 at 8:57:27 PM

Calling in favor of rename. Let's ready up an alt names crowner.

Sep 20th 2019 at 10:54:00 AM

May I refer to this thread next time I'm asked to provide a wick-check for a trope rename?

Edited by eroock on Sep 20th 2019 at 11:05:50 AM

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sep 21st 2019 at 12:15:14 PM

Both read like tropes to me.
I agree, but they aren't the SAME trope. Daleks and Cybermen from Doctor Who shout "EXTERMINATE!" and "DELETE!", but neither are robots. Technically they're mecha or cyborgs. I'd be okay with a trope for people shouting out their desire for murder/war/genocide. Perhaps a type of Catchphrase?
a friendly robot has a hidden 'Kill Bot Mode'
going from harmless to murderous
I can abide by a trope for this. I like the proposed Red Link for it, too. I would argue it is a completely separate trope from A.I. Is a Crapshoot because the "kill mode" is intentionally designed. I'd like to see evidence for it not being completely married to Kill All Humans because I don't know if it would be a Sub-Trope or not.
Edit: this doesn't appear to be how A.I. Is a Crapshoot is actually used,
Correct. AIs is treated as a very broad Super-Trope, and includes mindless automatons, computer subroutines, the Robot Buddy, talking toasters, and even Artificial Humans. R.U.R. features a race of biologically created slaves, which are a classic example of A.I. Is a Crapshoot that gave us the word Robot in the first place.
A palm-sized Robot Buddy who got infected by the same virus and also start rampaging isn't.
You realize that a trope can be Played for Laughs, right? If that applies in this place, then the rampaging is part of the trope and the fact that the "monster" is diminutive and harmless would be the punchline. Why does the "monster" need to look dangerous? Tropes aren't "probably". If it has an objective requirement, then that requirement is always present. If it doesn't have an objective requirement, then it is Not a Trope.
Whether there are any cases where CKD don't lead to KAH or not is irrelevant.
It is relevant because it affects the distribution of examples. If all examples of Trope B are also examples of Trope A, then they are either identical (and should be merged) or Trope B is a Sub-Trope to Trope A. If we can determine that all examples of CKD are KAH, then the overlap examples, such as The Simpsons and Futurama, should be eliminated from the supertrope. Restricting examples of Kill Bot Mode to specific activation methods would be a large step towards separating them.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Sep 21st 2019 at 1:32:08 PM

[up]To be honest it looks like you don't even understand what a Mechanical Monster is. The core of the trope is the "intimidating and dangerous machine" part, not the "rampaging" part, nor the "built to kill" part. The latter two are just some of the possible ways of how a MM came to be.

If the rampaging machine turned out to be small and harmless-looking, then it's not a MM, a subversion at best.

Sep 21st 2019 at 1:40:05 PM

I agree, but they aren't the SAME trope.

Thats what I was thinking. I was more thinking split this and keep 'Crush. Kill. Destroy!' Wiki worded to 'Crush... KILL! DESTROY!' To better get across the kind of single minded madness of that state. Its not AI exclusive at all.

Add the Kill Bot Mode as a split off trope which just might use the style of talking.

Edited by Memers on Sep 21st 2019 at 1:42:11 AM

GastonRabbit The Duck Knight from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Duck Knight
Sep 21st 2019 at 7:48:30 PM

Self-thumped. I'll hold off on the crowner until after more discussion.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 21st 2019 at 12:55:53 PM

"Guess what? You got it for free. Are you proud of yourself?"

Page Action: Crush Kill Destroy
14th Sep '19 7:14:28 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Crush Kill Destroy is a frequently misused Stock Phrase-based trope. What should be done with it?

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