Unfortunate Implications Citation Discussion

I'd say take out that last sentence because of a lack of citations.

Also, if the character really is a trans man, then the example shouldn't use "she".

From All the Good Men Are Gay's description:

A woman looking for Mr. Right eventually finds a great guy with all the right things she's looking for — but it turns out he's homosexual, leading to the dismissive statement about straight men. This is loaded with the Unfortunate Implication that only (and all) gay men possess the qualities women want (or not) — tenderness, consideration, etc. — while heterosexual men are pretty much primitive cavemen or perverted jerkasses who don't know how to act in public and treat other people.

Sounds like something either for an Analysis subpage, or some rewriting to be more analytical and less authoritative.

• Total Drama's depiction of Mike's Dissociative Identity Disorder is why he's become a Base-Breaking Character. For starters, his label is "The Multiple Personality Disorder" and his character largely just revolves around the disorder. Additionally, much of his behavior is simplified Played for Laughs in his debut season, with All-Stars adding in an evil alter as the main antagonist. The resolution of the fifth season and defeat of said antagonist involved Mike pressing a button in his brain to delete his alters while retaining their skills, essentially curing himself of mental illness while reaping the benefits. This ending received a massive backlash that spurned a letter-writing campaign to Fresh TV urging them to rethink their portrayal of mental illness. Fresh TV's response to this backlash claiming that it wasn't an issue because Mike's disorder wasn't real only made things worse. However, Mike does have a number of fans,

This doesn't sound like an issue, but the example doesn't have a citation.

I think it could be rewritten into a better example that talks about the show receiving backlash for having a poor and inaccurate portrayal of mental illness, and based on the way the entry is written it sounds a proper citation can be found for it. A quick search does bring up quite a few examples of people criticizing that specific thing so it's not like the entry is being myopic or anything.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 24th 2020 at 8:04:18 AM

I was sent here from ATT regarding this example I brought up there:

• On Twitter, Jacob Chapman has written a thread on DARLING in the FRANXX and what he regards as the show's "harmful worldview": "The targets of fear and derision in FRANXX hop from aggressive women to gender-nonconformity to childless or infertile adults to Literally An Alien Hivemind. Because it's so poorly written, it fails to fully explore why this stuff is framed as abhorrent (thank god tbh), but the assumption that the audience will see it that way betrays a conservative view of gender and relationships. In any case, the solution is Procreation."

I asked if Twitter threads are a reputable source for Unfortunate Implications. The consensus there seemed to be no for similar reasons blog posts aren't considered reputable.

Edited by ADrago on Feb 27th 2020 at 2:07:55 PM

The question was also asked "what if the poster is verified to be a big-name person?"

My own thought was that, if that were so, I'd assume they'd have a better citation to use somewhere besides Twitter.

Agreed. Twitter comments tend to be spur-of-the-moment and quickly retractable. At best they can serve as a prelude to a more elaborate analysis that would qualify as an actual source.

Chiming in to agree that Twitter threads should not be considered valid citation, regardless of source. Twitter isn't where people post considered, reasoned analyses; it's where they post hot takes and dank memes.

Edited by HighCrate on Feb 27th 2020 at 12:32:41 PM

Yeah, had Jacob made a video about it, that'd be one thing, but Twitter is so informal and on-the-fly, that it can't work for this.

I removed the example and linked to this thread in the edit reason.

Late to the discussion of Sevothtarte on Anime And Manga, but Laila basically committed elaborate identity theft (sort of) via being magically brainwashed to believe she's the real (but actually deceased) Sevothtarte to assume his power and status for revenge, and undergoing changes along with disguising particular identifying features to sell this new identity to himself and other people. The story presents this as a psychotic break/extended dissociation into a new identity followed by another psychotic break after this is exposed and she reverts to her previous self. There are trans characters in Angel Sanctuary but this is actually the first time I've seen this character labeled trans, even "sort of," rather than severely traumatized. I'm not sure how "sort of" makes for an example and not Square Peg Round Trope since you have to really twist it around. They have separate personalities/identities rather than one identity which is trans. I see why the Unfortunate Implications part was edited out, but I think the example doesn't fit anyway.

Edited by immichan on Feb 29th 2020 at 10:54:27 AM

This was recently added to Zootopia

Unfortunate Implications: An article on Cracked points out that one of the points of the movie is "animals can become predators at any point," which links back to a long-discredited theory about "super-races" used against blacks.

Decidedly not a citation, and you’d have to really be not paying attention to get that out of the movie, considering every element that resembles such is propaganda from the antagonists.

"An article by Cracked"

Great citation, right up there with "a video on YouTube" and "a quote by a critic".

All that aside, wouldn't such an article coming from Cracked be assumed a parody before anything else?

Also the entry doesn't even link to the article, which I would assume is a requirement given we have the citation rule in the first place.

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 1st 2020 at 5:41:41 AM

Not necessarily, some of them can make pretty good incisive commentary, but the quality and subject matter of them varies extremely wildly. It doesn't make for a good citation.

Yeah, exactly. A link to the article would be nice, but guess not.

Someone changed it to discuss how the film averts the trope.

Delete it. It's not significant enough for the aversion to be significant. At best some of that can be migrated to a non-subjective Shown Their Work entry.

Hey, ~rva98014, you do know that YMMV can't be played with, right? If it's averted, the example shouldn't be there at all.

I cut it.

From YMMV.Good Omens 2019:

• Unfortunate Implications: In the Garden of Eden, Aziraphale tells (dark-skinned) Adam and Eve to "don't let the sun go down on you here". "Don't let the sun go down on you here" was a common threat to African-Americans during the Jim Crow era in the United States to leave town or be lynched. Due to the British origins of the TV show, it is unknown if the reference was intentional or a coincidence.

No a citation, not to mention that threatening someone to leave town before sunset was a pretty common threat to anyone who crossed the local authorities, as several westerns can attest.

Cut or keep?

Well, no citation means it's an automatic cut no matter how good of a point the example makes.