During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Bloodraven
to Bloodraven
Are there any-others who qualify in the Song of Ice and Fire universe?
Littlefinger would be the first to come to my mind but he was voted down a while back and was considered to be "controversial" (I'll just leave it at that).
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 2nd 2018 at 7:08:39 AM
Goku Black
Bloody raven
Btw for Dresden Files. Should we move Martin's entry to the ymmv of the book Changes. Unlike the others his gambit is from there specifically. Also I know I already voted yes to him but just re-inforcing my yes having just read it. That was one hell of a gambit.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 3rd 2018 at 3:49:13 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Is that the first book he’s in?
He first appears in Death Masks, but his major gambit is indeed in Changes.
Incest isn't a big issue for me mostly because our disgust for it is biologically rooted. Incest is bad for the gene pool so we're wired to not like it. But there's nothing about it I consider morally wrong unless children are brought into the world via it, cause that's unfair - though people in ASOIAF may not know that, so it's easy enough to get by. But Cousincest is not wrong on almost any level unless it's repeated over generations.
Speaking of incest... any keepers in the Bible? (Incest was practiced in Genesis so that's why I thought of it). I imagine not, since Biblical antagonists tend to be... not subtle and easily duped. Though there's a few Guile Heroes for sure.
Yeah, Mythology as a whole is untapped by us on this thread. We'll get around to it, I'm sure.
Mmm... well I don't mind putting it to a vote if people feel it should be moved but I really prefer having the entry go with the initial work they go in, I find it just looks cleaner and is easier for the unfamiliar to find. Char, for instance, sure as hell doesn't have his most impressive MB moments in MSG but his entry goes there because it's where he started, I don't wanna jump it over to something like CCA just because he's the Big Bad there.
@ G, ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
yup, that's one I'm happy to forget happened here.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 3rd 2018 at 10:35:27 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Have to admit that it would be interesting to see other ASOIAF M Bs tbh. Speaking of which... I wonder if Tyrion and Daernys could count?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
No. To either. Absolutely not.
Now...
- Yotoden: Ranmaru Mori is a demon who disguises himself as a young man while manipulating the entire war in Japan. Using Nobunaga and the Oboro ninja as puppets, Ranmaru uses Nobunaga's excesses to wipe out ninja clans so the survivors seek vengeance while following a prophecy and using sacred weapons Ranmaru himself created, to gain enough negative energy to free his fellow demons. Ranmaru even sneaks a mole into their camp as a demon disguised as a monk who has no idea of his true nature, his plans going off perfectly until almost the very end.
- Tales from the Crypt: Demon Knight: The Collector is a demon out to gain the magic Key from the Demon Knight, Brayker. A genius 'salesman,' the Collector preys upon the desires and fears of the humans within the hotel he besieges, seducing or tricking them into selling him their souls and arranging them strategically to do as much damage as he can. Outwitting the humans at most opportunities, he even relies on the cowardice of the boorish Roach to unlock the gate for him, before allowing his demon minions to kill Roach anyways after a cheerful 'vaya con Diablos.' Charismatic and oddly charming with a roguish sense of humor, the Collector stands out as one of the most memorable villains from Tales from the Crypt.
- 100 Bullets: Agent Philip Graves is the man who delivers the attache cases, offering people who have been wrong a chance for 'carte blanche' vengeance. Often having multiple hidden agendas to his actions, Graves strategically uses some attaches to gain favors or followers, and is eventually revealed to have faked his death with those of his squad, the Minutemen, who he manipulates back into service. Revealed to be secretly working in conjunction with his supposed rival Augustus Medici to slowly dismantle the infamous Trust and bring it down until only Augustus, Grave and their ally Javier Vasco remain, Graves is also revealed to be a man of principle, which separates him from the monstrous Augustus, willing to slect his principles over even his life in the end.
- A Song of Ice and Fire (might need to crosspost this to a few places): Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers is one of the Great Bastards of King Aegon IV. Siding with his brother Daeron over his rebellious brother Daemon Blackfyre, Bloodraven arranged Daemon's death at the Redgrass Field and consolidated his own power over the Seven Kingdoms as King's Hand. at the Ashvale Tournament, Bloodraven infiltrates a Blackfyre plot and sees it dismantled with no effort, executing or punishing the rebellious lords, while treating his young cousin Aegon, or Egg, with respect and even affection. Later securing the throne for Egg by treacherously having a Blackfyre throne claimant murdered, Bloodraven allows himself to be sent to the Wall where he later uses the chance to become the final Greenseer, guiding Bran Stark to him to become his teacher.
I don't read the series so I can't comment too deeply but IIRC Tyrion was brought up in reference to some of the deal-breaking traps Littlefinger fell into so I doubt he'll be going up. Can't comment on Daenerys but I'll trust Lighty's judgement there on the hard no.
Do you guys think there are any potential keepers in Super Sentai or Kamen Rider? The shows might fall into the same problems that Power Rangers does but they have been around for so long and there's so much content that I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a few keepers.
Goku Black
Ooh we've got like 7-8 (Including an intersting MB/CM crossover in Go-Busters's Enter) planned for super senatai and around 4 for Kamen rider.
Something I should note villains there tend to be given sympahtetic and admirable features than PR and tend to be more complex to help there chances.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm intrigued... given the length of both I'm sure that shit is gonna be like the Gundam of live action.
I concur with miraculous. For every vile and despicable baddie there is usually a more admirable villain for both SS and KR.
Btw has anyone read Puella Magi Oriko Magica to do Oriko's writeup? I PM'd PhiSat a few months ago but never heard anything back from her.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Of course Gundam had been adapted into G-Saviour in the past, but that TV film wasn't that great.
Hopefully the new live-action film will be better.
As for potential KR cans, I've come across these following characters before I brought them up: Medic, Roidmude 001/Freeze Roidmude, and Krim Steinbelt.
All three are up for grabs since I'm not interested enough to watch KR Drive.
IPP Wick Check created.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@43110 Can I see the EP?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Hey everyone. It's been a while since my last EP, but I decided to do some research. I've recently finished The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and I felt there were quite a few villains from that show who deserved an effort post. I'll be posting the other candidates down the line, but I figured I'd get my first one out the way. It's time to talk about the true Master of Evil...
Who Is He and What Does He Do?
Baron Heinrich Zemo was the head of HYDRA's weapons division during World War II and its leader after the disappearance of the Red Skull. Responsible for creating devastating bio-weapons, Zemo's life was changed when Captain America foiled his plans to spread the deadly "Virus X" across the Allies. The chemicals spilled during their fight permanently fused his mask onto his face. Zemo swore revenge against Captain America, but his supposed death at the end of the war prevented that from ever happening. Zemo continued to lead HYDRA until the 21st century, as his personal super soldier serum had slowed his aging down to a crawl.
At the beginning of the series, Zemo had been in SHIELD custody for six years and imprisoned inside the Raft. During a mass prison outbreak arranged by Loki, Zemo escaped and returned to HYDRA's base of operations to take back command from Baron Strucker. After taking out the Grim Reaper, he was informed that the Avengers had discovered Captain America frozen up in the Arctic. Zemo relinquished control of HYDRA to Strucker upon hearing this news, as destroying Captain America was now his top priority. Zemo met up with Arnim Zola, as he still needed treatments for the side effects of Virus X. Zola proposed that a sample of Cap's blood could reverse the negative effects of the virus. Zemo infiltrated Avengers Mansion, while Zola sent out his creation "Doughboy" to distract the Avengers. He ambushed Captain America after taking out the Wasp and engaged him in duel. Their fight was interrupted by the unexpected arrival of the Black Panther, who tossed Cap his shield. Realizing he had the disadvantage, Zemo tossed an explosive device to distract Cap while he made a tactical retreat.
Zemo was soon approached by Amora and Skurge, who offered him the chance to join their Masters of Evil. He soon accompanied them as they recruited other supervillains into their team, all with the express purpose of destroying the Avengers. With his newly formed team, the Masters of Evil ambushed the Wasp and used her ID card to gain access to the mansion. Once inside, they quickly took care of the Avengers inside and lured the others to the mansion so they could be picked off. Zemo kept his captives alive for the moment, as he told Captain America that the world had been promised to him in exchange for the Avengers' defeat.
Unbeknownst to Zemo, the Avengers had picked up two new recruits in Hawkeye and Black Panther. The two were eventually captured and brought before Zemo to be executed, only for them to reveal they had been a distraction the whole time. While they were fighting the Masters of Evil, Ant-Man had been getting equipment from his lab. Ant-Man took care of Zemo's forces while Hawkeye and Black Panther freed the rest of the Avengers. The two teams collided head-on before Zemo ordered the Enchantress to commence a tactical retreat.
The Masters of Evil eventually put their plan of world domination into place after Amora recovered the Norn Stones from the sorceress Karnilla. With the Norn Stones, they would be able to summon armies from across the Nine Realms and use them to conquer the planet for themselves. Zemo and the rest of the team each brought a Norn Stone to a leyline that connected to a different realm, Zemo going with the Enchantress to the Red Skull's former headquarters. When the Avengers came to investigate the energy spikes, they ambushed by each of the Masters of Evil. Zemo ordered the Crimson Dynamo to scramble the Avengers' communications and was able to take Thor on in a one-on-one fight before Amora was able to subdue him.
As the Norn Stones summoned armies from across the Nine Realms, Thor warned Zemo that Amora would never allow mortals to be equals among Asgardians. Zemo revealed he always knew she was going to betray him, so he placed a mind-control collar around her neck and forced her to bring the armies under his command. Zemo was about to slay Thor before he was able to free Mjolnir from the Enchantress's spell. Thor defeated Zemo and told the Avengers that they had to destroy the Norn Stones to stop the invasion. The Avengers followed through and Zemo escaped in the aftermath, his dreams of conquering the world having gone up in smoke.
A few weeks later, the Enchantress began hunting down members of the Master of Evil in order to gain her revenge against Zemo. Realizing that Amora was on his trail, Zemo gathered his remaining teammates and arrived at Avengers Mansion, while he sent Crimson Dynamo to delay the Enchantress. He offered a proposition to the Avengers: in exchange for their help in taking down Amora, Zemo promised he and his team will turn themselves in. Although they were suspicious, the Avengers agreed to help. Iron Man had been building tech designed to counteract Asgardian magic and both teams decided to use Zemo as bait to lure Amora into a trap. She broke into Avengers mansion and Zemo waited for Captain America to activate the magic dampeners.
Unbeknownst to everyone, Captain America had been replaced with a Skrull and was perfectly willing to let Zemo meet his demise. Disappointed at Cap's betrayal, Zemo activated his back-up plan a pulled out the last remaining Norn Stone. Amora warned him that the Norn Stone he held was linked to Muspelheim and risked destroying all Nine Realms by using its power. Zemo didn't care, as his only concern was stopping the Enchantress. Iron Man activated the dampeners and stripped Amora of her powers. It was here that Zemo ordered his team to destroy the Avengers, as he never intended to honor his side of the bargain. Before he was able to kill the Enchantress, he was stopped by Wonder Man, who finally had enough of Zemo hurting people. Wonder Man destroyed the Norn Stone, which killed him and transported Amora to Muspelheim. Zemo was knocked out by the Skrull, and he and the rest of his team were transported to Prison 42.
In his final appearance, Zemo offered to help defend Prison 42 from the onslaught of Annihilus and his army. The real Captain America refused, as he knew Zemo was too untrustworthy to risk letting lose again.
Is He Charming, Charismatic, and Good on His Feet?
Despite having almost no powers, Zemo is able to lead a team consisting a villains who far surpass him in power. He's able to command the respect of his fellow HYDRA agents despite being imprisoned for years and was able to convince Wonder Man to join the Masters of Evil by promising to cure his condition. He's able to predict the actions of others and never underestimates his opponents. His one weakness is his focus on others alive he could easily kill them, particularly Captain America. But he regards Cap as a Worthy Opponent, as he's the only who can match him in combat and strategy.
Zemo was able to take out Thor using a modified blade and pistol, and beat the crap out of the Abomination when he questioned his leadership skills. He was able to convince the Avengers to help him take out the Enchantress, and even seemed disappointed when it seemed like Captain America had betrayed him. While his initial plan to take Amora out relied on Thor, he easily adapted to the plan Iron Man came up with. His only flaw in that scheme was betraying the Avengers before they took out Amora, but she was powerless at time and Zemo did still have the Norn Stone. Considering how skilled he is in battle, Zemo can definitely back up some of his confidence.
Is He a Bastard? Too Much of a Bastard?
Now, Zemo is currently listed as a Complete Monster. I personally don't think he's that bad, as he's not as sadistic as say the Red Skull. Zemo does have a mean streak, and takes joy out of kicking his foes while they're down. He intends to leave Captain America alive just so he can live to see him conquer the world. He's ecstatic at the opportunity to kill a god like Thor, and doesn't show any remorse about trying to kill the Enchantress. In fact, Zemo really doesn't care about his fellow teammates. He considers them all expendable, and is willing to risk their lives if it means his own survival. He was also willing to risk the Nine Realms just to gain an advantage over Amora, which ultimately leads to her getting enslaved by Surtur. In spite of this, Zemo never engages in pointless cruelty and is always focused on whatever task he has at hand.
Competition?
There's a lot of crafty villains in Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and Zemo manages to stay on his feet. He's not the one who assembles the Masters of Evil, as Amora is the one creates most of the plans for the them. But everyone differs to Zemo for his leadership, and he's the one who keeps everyone in line. Zemo is aware that Amora had planned on betraying him later down the line, and took steps to ensure that he got what was promised to him. And considering that it was actually Loki's plan to form the Masters of Evil and use the Norn Stones to summon his armies to Earth, Zemo almost completely derails those plans single-handily. If it wasn't for Thor freeing himself, Zemo may have conquered the Earth and stolen Loki's armies from right under his nose. The only one who managed to pull a fast one on him was the Skrull impersonating Captain America, but even Zemo was able to tell something was different about him. No one had any idea about the Skrulls at that point, and he was able to use his Norn Stone to ensure that he still had an ace-in-the-hole.
Verdict?
Zemo may be prideful at points, but he's able to back those claims up so they don't come across as smug. He's able to take on gods and win, and has contingency plans for when things go wrong. Zemo knows exactly when to strike, and when to make a retreat. I'd say he counts .
Honestly leaning no here... unless the tone is completely off about everything in his CM entry, it sounds like he's a sadistic prick (maybe not quite as much as the Red Skull but still sounds vile) who will betray anyone to be on the strongest side and while he might not always be a Smug Snake it sounds like he's got a pretty overweening amount of pride and feeling of superiority going on there.
Also, here's Oriko's EP: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15255322860A44444400&page=132#3276
Edited by 43110 on Dec 3rd 2018 at 7:13:25 AM
Lord of Hell
So, I might have a candidate for MB, but before I do, I have a question. If a villain allows themself to be defeated for the sake of their own ego when swallowing their pride would have been better for them in the long run, would that be a disqualifying factor? (It makes more sense in context of the work)
Call me... Del Noir...
Ok, this is gonna be my first EP on this thread, so Imma give it my best shot. In honor of my favorite film of all time being released on DVD tomorrow, I watched the other entries in the series to catch up. In doing so, I think I found someone who fit the bill...
What's the work?: Mission: Impossible – Ghost Protocol is the fourth entry in the long-running film series, and the one where the franchise really grew the beard. The plot sees IMF's golden boy Ethan Hunt broken out of Russian prison for a new assignment. Tasked with uncovering a mysterious extremist codenamed "Cobalt", Hunt and his team end up forced to go on the run while they fight to avert a nuclear apocalypse, their quarry proven far more of a match than they could have ever expected...
Who is Kurt "Cobalt" Hendricks?/What does he do?: Kurt Hendricks is an ingenious Swedish specialist in nuclear endgame theory, heralding an IQ of 190 and disenfranchised by a long career of treating the deaths of millions as nothing but "a game". He has been asked to step down, for in William Brandt's words, "being crazy", when he has really calculated that the only way to prevent the total eradication of mankind by superweapons is to expose just how devastating such actions would be, viewing the anti-nuclear monuments of Nagasaki and Hiroshima as prime examples of his utopian visions. Thus, he embarks on a mission to invoke nuclear war, genuinely believing that mankind will "evolve" as a result.
Hendricks is first introduced effortlessly breaking into the Kremlin, stealing the file on him and hijacking the IMF's radio frequency as they attempt to get the files first, exposing their heist to Russian operatives. Escaping right under Hunt's and the Russians' noses, Hendricks has planted explosives in the Kremlin, which he detonates, framing the IMF for terrorism and getting the entire agency disavowed, while also stoking tensions between the US and Russia to levels not seen since the Cold War, effectively putting his plan into motion without a hinch.
Hendricks tracks down a nuclear physicist Leonid Lisenker, and forces him to join him to Dubai to verify stolen launch codes that are being delivered to him by a vicious assassin, threatening violence on Leonid's family unless he assists him. However, once he has the launch codes, Hendricks immediately orders Leonid's family released, though he does execute the doctor for knowing too much. Hendricks is promptly chased by Hunt through a sandstorm, managing to outrun and outmaneuver the agent yet again.
Manipulating an India mogul into letting him use his radio station to transmit the launch codes, Hendricks manages to successfully launch a missile from a Russian submarine to strike San Francisco, igniting his vision for a grueling nuclear armageddon, followed by an worldwide armistice, coolly uttering to his henchman Wistrom "may there be peace on Earth". When Hunt and his team arrive, Hendricks doesn't miss a beat, simply telling Wistrom to disable the relay while he runs off with the briefcase that can abort the launch. Hendricks has a fist fight with Hunt, breaking the man's leg, but when the agent proves himself the superior fighter, Hendricks simply smiles, and jumps off a ledge with the briefcase in hand, mortally wounding him. When Hunt manages to get to the briefcase and disable it, the paralyzed Hendricks simply resigns himself to failure, and dies peacefully.
Is he magnificent?: Hendricks is a criminal mastermind who not only manages to nearly succeed with his mission, but manages to play the U.S., Russia, and the mo'fuckin' Impossible Mission Force for fools the whole while. He's also remarkably good with rolling with the punches, treating everything he does with sheer professionalism, and never losing his cool beyond a mild sigh of irritation after the chase in Dubai. Furthermore, he's deeply sympathetic, being jaded by a rough career maintaining the world order, and he genuinely believes what he's doing will bring about an endless peace, and save the future generations from experiencing the horrors he's had to imagine day in and day out.
Is he a bastard?: But then again, we can't forget that he will murder without hesitation, and his goal is essentially omnicide.
Too much of a bastard?: His intentions are wholly genuine, and he does let Leonid's family live despite killing the doctor himself. So I say he passes.
Competition?: Out of all the M:I villains, Hendricks is the one of only two who are genuinely trying the better the world. Jim Phelps, Sean Ambrose, and Owen Davian are either driven by ego, greed, sadism, or a gross mixture of the three, and Solomon Lane is implied to have similar aspirations at first, as well as the charisma, but completely abandons any sympathetic traits in the sixth film. John Lark is the closest to coming to counting other than Hendricks, but he suffers too much of a Villainous Breakdown to qualify, while Hendricks keeps a level head throughout the whole film and comes within a literal second of succeeding his mission. So yeah, shouldn't be an issue.
Conclusion: I say he's a , but I'll leave it to you guys.
Edited by JoeBlitz on Dec 3rd 2018 at 6:27:15 AM
"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Oh hey Joe, welcome to this end of the site, pal!
Funny you post Hendricks... I watched that movie a few months back and almost completely forgot about him and the film since then. Seems to check all the boxes, so no qualms with him going up.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure on Hendricks and welcome to the thread Joe!!! ^_^
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Well I'll admit the incest thing is a stomach-churner, it's a consensual relationship so not an insta-disqualifer for me. Sounds like he hits all the marks so keep for now at least.