Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
The nightmare fuel page for Beat the Clock might be safe to cut. It has only one example (the short-lived second part of the 1952 intro, seen for example on this episode) which is also listed as a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment on the YMMV page with the mention "also counts as Nightmare Fuel". I'm not too sure if the example even counts as Nightmare Fuel: the maniacal laughter and odd lighting is creepy, sure, but probably not something I'd lose sleep on for weeks. Even if it counts, it's a bit pointless to have a separate page for a game show with nothing else in the way of Nightmare Fuel (did we ever get a straight answer on the minimum number of examples required for a separate page?)
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I vote to cut (and it's meant to be three, iirc)
The Final Fantasy 8 and 9 pages are mostly filled with Fridge Horror and mindfuck (for 8 like Faceless Squall) I can see FS scaring someone who's not prepared for it but I'd say compared to other games these two need at least a comb over.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
The Rise of Skywalker has some questionable content.
I don't find anything in the trailer creepy. We just get some generic Bloodless Carnage and an Evil Laugh.
We can cutlist it, or request a lock until more trailers show up.
There's currently nothing in the teaser that's terrifying, and referencing what Palpatine did in Legends edges on Speculative Troping.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Musician/Composer
I'm growing a little concerned about the Shin Sakura Wars Nightmare Fuel page I just created. I don't find anything frightening in the following announcement trailer.
As such, should we cut that page until more trailers are released?
Edited by gjjones on Apr 12th 2019 at 5:18:19 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Why did you make the page if you didn't think those were examples?
Musician/Composer
Oh, I just thought the demons would be a bit unsettling, given their designs and roars. When one of them crashes into Ueno station in the trailer, that may catch some off guard. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.
Edited by gjjones on Apr 12th 2019 at 5:40:51 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
You shouldn't trope Audience Reactions on the idea that someone else might have had that reaction. That's basically Speculative Troping.
Showtime!
Went through the nf pages for the Stormlight Archives, put all salvageable examples on the main series nf page, cut listed the individual pages
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Musician/Composer
I understand where you’re coming from. Given that, maybe we can ask about it in the Speculation Cleanup thread or just cut it until more trailers come in after all as a precaution...?
Edited by gjjones on Apr 12th 2019 at 6:42:35 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Both of the Shin Sakura Wars examples are severely lacking in context and don't sound scary at all. That page should definitely not have been made.
Musician/Composer
Hmm, that's what I was thinking. As such, I've gone ahead and took that page to the Cut List as a precaution. We'll just have to wait until more info comes out later this year.
So, regarding the NF page for The Rise of Skywalker, I can agree with Ano Baka Desu that it should be either cut or locked.
Edited by gjjones on Apr 12th 2019 at 9:42:30 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Yes, that also looks very weak with some speculation thrown in.
Musician/Composer
Indeed. Unless someone objects, I'll also take that page to the Cut List within the next couple of days.
Here's another possible Sakura Wars example: Obscur in Is Paris Burning? is a terrifying sight to behold. When the robot attacks Paris robot causes some of the buildings to erupt in flames and then it freezes over the city. In the trailer that came with the Dreamcast port of Sakura Wars 2, Masque de Corbeau silently watches the scene from atop the Eiffel Tower while the Notre Dame Cathedral's bells toll. The trailer ends with Sakura yelling Ogami's name.
Here's the trailer for reference (the scene in question starts at 2:15):
Does that count as a true Nightmare Fuel example?
Edited by gjjones on Apr 13th 2019 at 8:34:45 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
So, regarding NightmareFuel.The Rise Of Skywalker ...
- Kylo slashing through several people like butter. He truly is Vader's grandson. One action shot is hardly anything that strikes fear in anyone.
- The shot of the wrecked Death Star 2 looming over the (Endorian?) sea. If it is indeed Endor, it means No Endor Holocaust was averted on that part of the planet when the battle station blew up in Return of the Jedi. Speculation.
- The first trailer ends with Luke's narration reassuring his listener that "no one is ever really gone," immediately followed by the Evil Laugh of Emperor Palpatine. One can only wonder if he's done here as he did in Star Wars Legends... Referencing what Palpatine did in Legends to nudge in speculation and Fridge Horror.
- Having the screen cut to black before hearing that laugh makes it all the creepier, since it's impossible to say what form Palpatine is in, human or ghost or something worse. It also leaves you wondering just what it would take to kill the guy if throwing him down a Death Star reactor shaft minutes before it blew up couldn't get rid of him! This one is has some potential, but that's the only salvageable point from Palpatine's laugh in the trailer. Still grounded in speculation.
If nobody objects, this page can be cut until the movie is out.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
I say cut.
Musician/Composer
I took it to the Cut List.
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Regarding some of the recent posts... aren't trailers not supposed to be troped on the grounds that they may not accurately reflect the work they're teasing?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Musician/Composer
thread can be used if one wants to add tropes based on promotional material (trailers, etc.). Here's a relevant link to the mod ruling about troping on pre-release works.
Edited by gjjones on Apr 13th 2019 at 6:18:59 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Okay, that does help. Thanks for that.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Musician/Composer
No problem.
Edited by gjjones on Apr 13th 2019 at 6:32:35 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Showtime!
I have a problem with some cleanup I've been trying to do, re merging page
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
SO any thoughts on Holes and Age Of Empires II?
Went over the Worm page and pulled out the worst Fridge, ZC Es and conversational examples. I'd appreciate another pair of eyes to look over it, and see if there's anything else that needs to be done, or if I went too far.
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?