The Scrappy Cleanup

YMMV.My Little Pony Generation 5

• Base-Breaking Character: Sparky Sparkeroni, Hitch’s adopted baby dragon son. While others like the little tot for his cuteness and sweet personality, he's also disliked for his realistic baby behavior, tendency to cause problems, and his character’s use of toilet humor in Tell Your Tale.

I bring them here because they're The Scrappy (the weakest part even to those otherwise enjoying the series) to the previous series, G4, fans who are the most visible/active part of the MLP fandom.

They seem like Jar Jar Binks in that the younger fans they're supposed to/do or may appeal to not visible/involved with the fandom enough to affect the fandoms overall reception of them, and Jar Jar definitely counted even if said younger fans getting older/involved contributed to their hatred being reduced.

Asking if Sparky counts as Scrappy. This could also raise the issue of how/or if we take into account their reception to fans too young/disconnected to put their feeling in a place it can be accurately accounted for.

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964)

• The Scrappy: As expected, "all of the other reindeer" for how they treat poor Rudolph. Special mention goes to Fireball, Rudolph's first friend who completely turns on him after seeing his nose; Comet, an authority figure who encourages his exclusion; and Donner to a lesser extent, for trying to look out for his son but doing so in an extremely misguided way. Unlike the Head Elf, who's also a mean jackass to a misfit, they aren't funny or over-the-top enough to make their scenes enjoyable, as necessary as they may be for the plot.

This falls afoul of the "no groups" rule but are any of them hated enough to be their own entries?

Yeah, I don't think the "other reindeer" are scrappies since you are supposed to hate them, their actions aren't potrayed as in the right, and they learn their lesson by the end of the special and apologize. I think Donner could be a scrappy since he can be seen as abusive and sexist due to Values Dissonance, but he also realizes he was wrong in the end. Ditto to Santa even though he's not mentioned.

Unsure about Sparky, I'm not sure how popular he is with the kids as he has limited merchandise, which sort of implies that kids don't really care for him. (Then again, Jar Jar himself has tons of merchandise, but it's one of the few factors since most kids do not post about shows online). I haven't really seen any praise of Sparky from older fans though, just criticism, but a good chunk of those older fans are G4 only fans and thus may just dislike G5 in general, so it's not really a fair analysis.

Sparky represents an Opinion Myopia problem with Scrappy in general, how to judge their reception with those who don't post or interact in a way to make it visible to observe. You could argue any character can be disqualified on those grounds that they might have fans who just aren't observable.

The one fix I can think, YMMV being what can be observed/deduced as general audience reaction, would allow Sparky as:

• You pointed out their is not evidence he's popular with younger fans, the scarcity of his merch compared to other characters being evidence against.
• He is hated by even the G4 fans who otherwise like G5 seeing him as a drag on its quality without the fans other characters have. (He's largely absent in fanworks and has less fanart which I find indicators.)
• If Jar Jar doesn't count for the discussed, then such an iconic example not counting might require such an overhaul of standards as to be unworkable.

I intend to add Sparky, as the possible younger fans is only hypothetical and what evidence we have is against, unless I hear any objections. We can aways remove him if anything comes up.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 16th 2023 at 11:58:49 AM

It's been a month since the release of Scott Pilgrim Takes Off so I can add this, but does it really count?

• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Matthew Patel wasn't hated, per se, and actually had a small following of fans who thought he was underrated. However, many believed that he was the most underutilized character amongst the Exes. Here, he finally gets his chance to shine when he takes a major role as The Heavy of the series due to supposedly defeating Scott and taking over Gideon's empire, with many enjoying his Character Development and jokingly calling the series a "love letter" to the fans of his character.

regarding Jar Jar considering he’sisted as a Base-Breaking Character on the Clone Wars page does he really count as consistently hated

I say removed. As it say, he wasn't hated and its just a case of wasted potential for a character.

Alright then

Not now, but he was Scrappy at the time such it's a big part of the works historic cultural impact. Even Scrappy-Doo isn't one nowadays (he was initially popular and seen as unfairly hated in hindsight).

Rescued from the Scrappy Heap has a 9 month wait (6 since becoming Scrappy, 3 since rescuing). If they're rescued that quick I see not being Scrappy long enough to count. But how long do we say they have to go before being rescued to be worth listing, for historical purposes at least, under both? (Only rescued in later works?)

But that's beside the issue with Sparky, that the one argument for him not counting (potential popularity with those too young to be involved with the fandom/make their like visible) is hypothetical and what evidence we have (his merch being scarce/absent amongst that demographic) contradicts that. So I intend to add him, we can remove him if evidence of fans pops up/he becomes popular later, unless anyone objects.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 17th 2023 at 8:36:35 AM

So do characters stay on their Scrappy pages even after being rescued?

That's what I'm asking this thread about.

While current policy is technically that rescued/no longer hatred characters should be removed, Scrappy-Doo and Jar Jar are the current precedent for keeping such. Why is that? (Being hated long enough before that it's important to understanding the fandom? Historic purposes? Grandfather Clause that we won't allow for further entries? Not improving enough to fully remove their Scrappy status?) And/or should they be removed?

Scrappy-Doo and Jar Jar were hated for a very, very long time by SW fans and to this day are still hated despite some fans either warming up to him or the people who grew up liking him fine expressing their indifference/enjoyment of their characters. That's why they ought to stay.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Dec 19th 2023 at 6:10:45 PM

But how do we determine what’s long enough to stay? For example Clone Wars ended its original run in 2014, so at most Jar Jar was universally hated for 15 years (with it likely being less than that with it potentially being as small as a 9 year period of Jar Jar being universally hated).

Edited by Mariofan99 on Dec 20th 2023 at 11:31:57 AM

Understood and agreed. But my question is what is the quantifiable threshold they cross that would allow us to decide if future characters can be listed as both Scrappy and rescued? I'd say at least 10 years. Anything else (magnitude of hate, how much it permeates pop culture) are too subjective even for YMMV.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 19th 2023 at 10:54:20 AM

Alright, first query back. This is on TheScrappy.Anime And Manga.

• Beastars: The characters introduced in the second half of this series are extremely hit or miss. You've some here and there that pretty much everyone loves like Gosha, Sebun, Zaguan, and Agata. You've got some that are meant to be terrible but nuanced people that end up becoming Base Breaking Characters due to poor writing like Yafya, Melon, and Leano. And then there's Kyuu. If someone tells you they like Kyuu they're probably lying to you. She and her Imaginary Chimera power, which are seen by most as basically budget Stands, being introduced marked what seemed to be a point of no return for this once beloved series. Following her introduction, the series began to rapidly descend into complete incoherence on its march towards cancellation. And that Imaginary Chimera power? It didn't end up factoring into the plot whatsoever. It was literally just weirdness for its own sake that was forgotten about as quickly as it was brought up.

• 1. Unnecessarily long prelude about other characters.
• 2. Obviously biased writing (e.g. "If someone tells you they like Kyuu they're probably lying to you").
• 3. Only details why the Imaginary Chimera powers are disliked instead of anything about Kyuu herself.
• 4. Kyuu is listed as a BBC on the series' YMMV page.

So this seems like an easy removal to me.

I agree that her entry should be removed for the reasons you stated.

TheScrappy.Danganronpa:

• Fuhito Kirigiri, after the light novel revealed him to be a greedy, selfish old man who excommunicated his own son from the Kirigiris twice, only dragging him back the second time when he found out Jin had a daughter he could make heir, basically denying his protégé Shinsen his position in the process and ultimately leading to most of Kyoko's issues.

• Kazuya Togami. Fans despise the little twit, thanks to being an utterly remorseless murderer who rapes his step-sister moments after she's been mutilated and in the latter half acts completely arrogant over the prophecy he's supposedly involved in. Many fans cheered when he is caught in the fire.

Both of these feel like normal Hate Sink examples. For Kazuya in particular, the YMMV page for Danganronpa Togami mentions his rape of Shinobu coming out of nowhere, which might play a major part in him being so hated, but it's not mentioned anywhere in his entry. Kazuo Tengan's entry, earlier in the page, mentions how he's intentionally supposed to be hated, yet is hated for unintentional reasons, but neither of these entries really do that so I'm willing to cut them.

Removed them as none of the stated hate was unintentional. From the same page:

• The Monokubs are perhaps the only universally disliked characters in a cast of otherwise Base Breaking Characters. Fans consider them less appealing than Monokuma and a Replacement Scrappy to Usami/Monomi from the previous game, as unlike Usami, they have no real plot relevance, dynamic with Monokuma, or important role. Their only role is to be a source of comedy, except their jokes are typically considered more annoying than funny, especially since they have a tendency to repeatedly interrupt trials. This applies in-universe as well, as the audience watching the Danganronpa reality TV show finds the Kubs annoying as well. Even Shuichi doesn't seem to care when they get blown up in the final trial, and when they engage him in a Rebuttal Showdown to save themselves, he coldly reminds them that none of the deceased students wanted to die either (except for Ryoma, who allowed himself to be murdered by Kirumi). And they were meant to be annoying in-universe, consensus is that it works a little too well and the game would be better if they were removed entirely.
  • Monokid and Monophanie are easily the most disliked among the Monokubs.
    • Monokid is meant to be a Hate Sink who does nothing but be an annoyance to his siblings and mistreat Monodam. The other Monokubs seem to think about him this way too, with none of them mourning his destruction.
    • Monophanie is hated for the amount of Vomit Indiscretion Shots she has, which get more annoying each time they happen, and because she shows interest in Villainous Incest in more than one occasion, whether that'd be from Monokuma licking her or by having a Brother–Sister Incest relationship with Monotaro, which ends up in her getting pregnant with a giant mechanical insect that bursts out of her chest, destroys Monotaro and plays a role in Gonta's execution.

I deleted this as a group example that notes it was largely intentional, and the only two individuals listed as stand out hated are also intentional unless you account for the group entry. Anything worth salvaging from this?

I think Monophanie? I thought she was mostly portrayed as "one of the good ones" up until her weird relationship with Monotaro that ended up being gross and somewhat incestuous.

To list the others:

• As you said, despite me personally disliking Monokid, he is in the end made that way, to be annoying on purpose.
• Monosuke can be seen as somewhat funny, and comparitively more tolerable than Monokid.
• Monodam actually tries to take the reigns of the Killing game and across the first 3 trials he has somewhat of a story arc. Unambiguously portrayed more positively than the rest.
• Monotaro also has somewhat of a storyline with him being so forgetful he actually ends up cooperating alongside the survivors and ends up in a weirdly wholesome relationship with Miu and Kibo. But he's also the second half of the incestuous storyline, so he's contentious, but not outright hated.

Can I cut this (from Civil War (2006))?

• The Scrappy: Maria Hill - The acting head of S.H.I.E.L.D. and pro-reg supporter who decided to arrest Captain America for "not following the law" — despite the fact that said law hadn't been voted on in the US Congress yet and Cap had only said that he didn't want to hunt down heroes who disobeyed the law, not that he was adverse to registering himself. She's still largely distrusted by fans in anything she happens to pop up in.

This character is despised by virtually everyone in-universe. I'm pretty sure her actions here were very much intended to make the audience root against her.

Yes, cut.

Since the audience not liking her seems to be Intended Audience Reaction, I feel she's not a scrappy then EDIT: and that you can cut her.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Dec 28th 2023 at 1:01:34 AM

For Fire Emblem Fates I know everyone (rightfully) clowns on the writing but most do agree the characters (outside of the story) are great but would Peri still count as a scrappy since most people really don't like her even with her supports?

I guess so. Between Reddit and Serenes Forest, it's really easy to find people hating on her, and very difficult to find fans who defend her character.