For a list of bad laconics, see Sandbox.Pages Needing Better Laconics.
For generally accepted guidelines for laconics, see Sandbox.Laconic Wiki Template.
Today I found out an interesting fact from troper Ironeye:
Don't ever make the mistake of using the Laconic version as the canonical trope meaning—the laconics are often written by people who don't actually understand the drop. In this case, the laconic only corresponds to one possible cause of Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy.
The Laconic Description for DIAA states as follows:
The thing is, these descriptions are supposed to make it easier to understand what the page is about. If they can't be accurate as well as short and sweet, then there's a problem.
So for starters, what would be a better description for DIAA?
Edited by MacronNotes on Jan 29th 2023 at 6:23:45 AM
Vetinari Job Security: just a quote that describes nothing. Description could use some work too.
I think "A Magical Girl who is also a Super-Heroine," sounds best.
Not all pages have laconics, and I distinctly prefer no laconics to badly done ones.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Just bring it up here, and we'll see if we can come up with one. But like Septimus said, none is better than a bad one, so don't just make one up if you're not 100% sure about the definition.
There is no Planet B
Adult Fear. The description says it's any realistic threat and fear that most adults would be concerned about in real life portrayed as scary (economic situation, fidelity in relationship, safety of your family).
Laconic.Adult Fear says "realistic scary situations happening to children, played in fiction for all they're worth".
Children are emphasised in the main article, but the laconic is inaccurate.
I think it also attracts misuse. Some wicks (two of which I removed) mention anything bad happening to children, no matter how it's portrayed. For example the examples I removed involved zombies and some freaky vision of resurrection. I moved the examples to the discussion in case anyone wants to check my decisions.
For the new laconic, I suggest trimming it to "realistic scary situations".
edited 6th Jul '13 7:23:32 PM by XFllo
Adult Fear is not "realistically scary situations" at all.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Zzzzzzzzzz
I changed the Adult Fear laconic to "Threats and fears that most adults would be concerned about in real life. "
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
There is no Planet B
OK, thank you. If it's not real life scary situations, then what is it? By "realistically scary situations", I meant that it's plausible and could very well happen. Probably a bad expression or bad style of writing.
But I am right in assuming that creatures like zombies and morphing your kid's soul into a demon doesn't count as Adult Fear? One troper responded in the discussion
and thinks the example from Soul Eater (the resurrection & soul of your kid changed into demon) counts. More input could help.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Thank you. That helps a lot. 
edited 7th Jul '13 10:00:07 AM by XFllo
Zzzzzzzzzz
It's just what I changed the laconic to: Threats and fears that most adults find frightening in real life. Zombies? no. Kidnapping? Yes. A killer clown in the bedroom closet? No. Losing your house? Yes. Ninjas? No. Divorce? Yes.
It's not intended to cover "anything anybody ever might find frightening." It's about those works that take a very real concern that affects adults (and which most children aren't aware of or are aware of only peripherally) and build on that fear.
The Soul Eater one feels like a shoehorn to me. The adult fear it's based on (losing your child/danger to your child would be an example (See Taken, Not Without My Daughter, even M) but frosting it over with demons and soul-stealing takes it out of the Adult Fear category and puts it into straight Horror. That's my personal opinion.
edited 7th Jul '13 9:49:20 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I'm not sure what Bastard Girlfriend is supposed to but its laconic "She's a total sadist, and that's hot!" sounds like Fetish Fuel. Can anyone clear this up?
Zzzzzzzzzz
Changed it. To "A female character is sexy because she's sadistic or an abuser. "
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That sounds better but still sounds like Fetish Fuel. Is supposed to be be a type of Fetish Fuel? because the previous laconic potholed it.
Zzzzzzzzzz
It can be Fetish Fuel, in that Fetish Fuel is defined as "something that is makes a character sexually attractive (or more sexually attractive then they otherwise would be) to some part of the audience".
But because of what the Fetish Fuel Pages degenerated into, we no longer have them, and wicking to Fetish Fuel is discouraged.
A Bastard Girlfriend, like a Bastard Boyfriend, is one where their cruelty or sadism is intended to be a substantial part of their attractiveness. Which means that there's no way to describe Bastard Boyfriend or Bastard Girlfriend without saying something that at least implies Fetish Fuel is involved.
edited 7th Jul '13 10:55:07 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Alright, that makes sense.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Glad I could help.
God Modders is really long. Can it be trimmed down?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I shortened it a little bit.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Nice change! Not only was the old one too long, it was far too reliant on potholes. Thank you.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
The laconic for Wrench Wench just says, "Female mechanic," but if you read the page it doesn't sound like it's that People Sit On Chairs. The quote, picture, and several lines in the description make it sound like she's supposed to be attractive. There's nothing to suggest that an ugly, mannish woman would qualify. Wench even means a servant or prostitute.
Zzzzzzzzzz
I don't see a problem. The trope is "female character is a mechanic." The name is used outside the wiki, and the definition touches briefly on the fact that she may be attractive, but doesn't have to be.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I'm not saying that she has to be attractive, but the page indicates that it is, "girl who is mechanically inclined," not any woman who has a job working on cars. "Female mechanic," makes it sound like it's about profession instead of personality.
The Other Troper
I think the one on Fur Bikini should be better (especially since it's not limited to undergarments). Not that the old one was any better, just it needs a good one.
Also, are we allowed to bring up newly launched tropes? Because I'd like to get a good and accurate one for Simple, yet Opulent.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Laconic.Big Bad looks rather weird to me. Too long, to be specific.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Well, "the intersection of" is more complicated than "meets". "Intersection" a longer and harder-to-understand word, and the differences in meaning aren't relevant here, I believe.
Greek history is irrelevant at any rate. The point of the laconic wiki isn't to be as laconic as possible. It's meant to summarise (the core ideas of) the tropes briefly. The definition of the word does not define what that wiki is about. That's what I meant, rather than declaring dictionaries off-limits. A dictionary definition doesn't say anything about why the word is used here in the first place. If it was an argument about using the word "laconic" it would be relevant, but it isn't.
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