Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.
As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 13th 2024 at 9:30:24 AM
Meaningful Name strikes me as a Narrative trope. Characters in fiction have a meaningful name because the creators picked a name that would suit their profession or destiny. No real person sets out to do what their legal name tells them to do. "Nominative Determinism" is pop psychology at best. The RL section is also attracting weird, ROCEJ violating examples, for whatever reason.
Lots of coffee
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think deliberate (i.e. stage names or names chosen based on a profession) or invoked examples could be kept, like "Carrie A. Nation."
I agree with this. If it's deliberate, it's fine. If it's just incidential, then it should go.
The Enforcer
The Kindnapper is a trope about folks' moral intentions and also a characterization.
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
The Enforcer
Parental Favoritism is a narrative trope (the description describes its use in narrative structures) and the RL section is attracting gossip about real people's family issues.
In related tropes, Because You Can Cope is another case of "entire section is general". Permission to cut?
- Can happen with real siblings, though more commonly in a less vicious version. For example, if one kid is worse at school, they'll get rewarded for accomplishing what the other sibling accomplishes all the time.
- Almost anyone who has a physically and/or mentally handicapped sibling has experienced the "ongoing neglect" version of this trope.
- Sadly, this mindset can and does hide instances of child abuse, at the hands of a relative or close friend. If one can cope, then one should, so there's no need to make a fuss about those bruises or that stream of insults and profanity; bruises happen all the time! — and you know what they say about "sticks and stones..." Because peer pressure etc., can make it so hard to step outside this attitude, a common result would be for a child to be traumatized well past any sane human tolerances without considering their situation to be unjust in any manner.
- Sadist Teachers also use this excuse to justify doling out harsh lessons or ignoring peer to peer bullying. After all, Kids Are Cruel and the bullied kid needs to just learn to toughen up, right? And when they realize complaining will get them nowhere and shut up, the teacher sees this as a sign that the student is reacting the "right way" by "ignoring" the bullies.
- Can also be used to justify a Double Standard when it comes to interpersonal abuse. If the abuser is considered the "weaker" party (physically smaller, for example), they can unleash all kinds of physical, verbal, and emotional abuse on the other party, who is often told that because they are "bigger and stronger" in some sense, that the abuser can't actually do any real harm to them and that they should just stand there and take it or even agree with the abuser because of this trope.
- Friends can do this to each other, sometimes. Friendships devolve all the time. More in the key moments of life, but also ongoing neglect. Most people who have friends have had it happen at least once. We all remember that one nightmare year when friends stopped returning calls/stopped listening so hard.
- It's a common tactic in some after-abuse care shelters.
- This can happen in relationships where one partner has been raped or sexually abused, and can cope, but their partner cannot cope with the knowledge, so they have to comfort their partner over the thing that happened to them. It is advisable for people who cannot cope with what happened to their beloved to join a self-help group to avoid this.
- Anyone who really, really likes to read books knows how unfair it feels when kids who don't want to read books are given books at every occasion and are rewarded for reading them ... and those who really like books get them as birthday presents and that's it. Rewards for reading a book? Forget it.
- Progressive tax works on this basis: People with greater income are to pay a greater share of it in tax because they're less impacted by it; while at the poorest extreme, those who need to spend all of their money on basic life expenses aren't subject to income tax at all. But in practice, the richest can afford lawyers with perfect knowledge of tax loopholes, or rely on Screw the Rules, I Have Money!.
Edited by NonexistentYeets on Apr 9th 2023 at 3:10:34 PM
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
and : Agreed, both of those tropes also feel very Too Controversial, The Kindnapper is also attracting True Crime grossness, and Parental Favoritism is also very Gossipy. Also agree with axing Because You Can Cope's RL section.
Re: Meaningful Name, I agree with your sentiments but overwhelmingly, these aren't talking about stage names. Meaningful stage names would be a better fit for the Meaningful Rename trope instead. The only current examples that fit are Tod Slaughter and Eartha Kitt (although her example is what the Hindsight thread would call "actor garbage"). Everything else is incidental apophenia, which is why I stand by calling it (and the essentially identical trope Prophetic Name, which I just noticed has a similarly terrible RL section) Narrative and Characterization tropes.
Edited by MissConduct on Apr 9th 2023 at 9:18:53 AM
Am I a weirdo?
I agree that all those Because You Can Cope examples are general and can be cut.
I fix my examples all the time
I'm unsure whether it's okay for Handicapped Badass to have real-life examples, since they see real people as fictional characters. More info here.
Edited by ElRise on Apr 10th 2023 at 9:02:07 PM
Graffiti Wall
The Enforcer
Handicapped Badass was brought up a couple weeks ago and despite many folks agreeing that it's a characterization trope and attracts gushing, was voted KRLE.
I'd be down to re-crowner it, but while there's no specific policy I know of on the timing for that, the consensus seems to be that it needs to have at least 2 years or so since the last decision.
Edited by NonexistentYeets on Apr 10th 2023 at 1:08:58 PM
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
I think it's more like one year we wait until we retry something (I think Mistaken for Pedophile was last on here in Fall 2021). The Administrivia.Keep Real Life Examples page, for the first ten years of its existence, rather unhelpfully numbered their crowners instead of dating them until the start of 2022. I think my personal rule is anything on one of the numbered crowners (ie. before January 2022), provided it's still an issue, is able to be recrownered, but yeah, I think January 2024 would be a good time to recrowner the tropes that got KRLE'd at that time. note
Edited by MissConduct on Apr 10th 2023 at 12:31:48 PM
Am I a weirdo?
Can we please stop with the trying to re-crowner things just because we don't like the result? Unless the page has developed new problems, let's just live with the results of the last crowner.
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Off topic, but Sociopathic Soldier claims to be NRLEP, but it has an RL example right now. I don't know whether this trope specifically is actually NRLEP and this example was added against the rules, or if the trope, at some point, was added unilaterally before the indexes were locked and the example is not technically invalid. If it's the latter though, I would wholely support crownering Sociopathic Soldier on Morality and Characterization as the current example is a major ROCEJ violation, and I can't imagine any other RL example wouldn't be the same.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
That example was only added about 2 months ago, soooo
Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 10th 2023 at 12:37:58 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
God that guy is evil but yeah. This was added recently so it deliverately was placed against the rules.
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Well, it doesn't say on the page that it's NRLEP so, easy mistake.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Whoops said something dumb again lol. But yeah the example should go.
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
(she/her)
Called and processed all remaining items on the crowner.
Macron's notes
The Enforcer
What Did I Do Last Night? is a narrative structure — a character does something that they don't remember while they were drunk and shenanigans ensue. The RL section is also full of gossip about folks' substance use and some crime stuff that's put shortly, gross.
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
Agreed, it's also often rape-adjacent, as well as being terribly Gossipy. I'd crowner.
Re: Sociopathic Soldier, should we axe the RL example, add the NRLEP %'d out disclaimer, and send a message to the adder warning them about NRLEP and ROCEJ?
Discarded and Feeling Blue
We can do those things, though there is no reason for it to have a hidden note. Just make the usual "this trope is NRLEP because..." at the bottom of the descrption.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
(she/her)
I like to use the hidden note on the pinned post because it links to the crowner and the NRLEP thread but stating that the trope is NRLEP in the description is fine.
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 11th 2023 at 1:42:12 PM
Macron's notes
Discarded and Feeling Blue
That's the thing; we don't know when or if Sociopathic Soldier did get crownered.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Enforcer
If Sociopathic Soldier wasn't on a specific crowner, maybe it was blanket banned with morality tropes?
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
It's a very old trope (2008), and I don't think the earliest crowners, particularly the tropes that were added at the very very beginning, which this one very well might have been.
I removed the offending example and edited the description. The adder was Absolairon. I think only mods are supposed to send warnings like this?
Edited by MissConduct on Apr 11th 2023 at 1:48:25 PM
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- The item have been on the crowne for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
I'd probably say it's a better fit for No Recent Examples Only. The older examples are more accurate than the newer ones, a lot of the very recent ones are misuse.