The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

I don't think ABDL in and of itself is grounds for removal; it's a fetish for a variety of things (loss of control, mental regression) that should always involve adults.

I'm looking through Dantes Infanzia at the moment. It's...odd, but it's not pornographic or placing minors in any sexual situations.

ABDL may involve adults, but it also involves using infantile mannerisms in a sexual context.

How sexual the context is can vary from person to person. For some there's almost no sexual element to it at all, for others its the end-all, be-all. Most, I think, fall somewhere in the middle so, all the previous said, it definitely is a borderline situation.

Yeah, there's definitely something to be said on here about kink and its relationship to this thread. Stuff like Demonseed I gave an angelhead to, even though it's heavy on the pregnancy kink, but it's not explicitly sexual. Other works like Kill La Kill and Rock Cocks heavily feature exhibitionism and ENF; they've got enough plot and the like to be kept on the wiki, so kink isn't an automatic disqualifier.

From what i am reading, it seems similar with Omujo and the ABDL work.

Edited by DrPsyche on Oct 12th 2020 at 4:57:21 AM

I'm fine with plenty of fetishy stuff if there's enough plot and only involves adults, but ABDL is very hard to draw a line on for me.

Edited by PrincessPandaTrope on Oct 12th 2020 at 11:07:19 AM

But...ABDL does involve adults. It's not sexual towards minors, it's just a fetish. A fetish that relates to childhood, but a fetish nonetheless that consenting adults partake in.

I seem to recall that there have been works in the past that were not super graphic, but were heavy on the fetish content and were cut for that reason. My sense is that we come down harder on fetish stuff than for the equivalent level of vanilla content due to a perception that it attracts creepy edits and/or makes us look bad. Should we be doing this? /shrug

It has to do with a work's primary purpose. Is the main purpose of the work sexual gratification/exploitation, or is it to tell a story that happens to include these things? Put another way: would there be anything worth someone's time to read or watch if they were not getting off to it? Corollary: does the presence of sexual content sufficiently distract or disgust the non-interested audience to make the work unwatchable/unreadable?

That's the main test, but we also have the pedo-pandering test, which applies an exceptionally high standard to works that sexualize minors and especially pre-teens or children. This includes characters with the appearance of children — nobody's fooling anyone by having that six-year-old be Really 700 Years Old.

I am on the fence about adults pretending to be child-like to satisfy an infantilism fetish. On the one hand, it's creepy. On the other, there are fewer issues of consent, and anyone looking at the work can clearly tell it's not kids involved. Cutting things merely for being creepy is not in the P5's remit, but a high ratio of fetish content may cause it to fail the "main purpose" test.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 13th 2020 at 6:55:46 AM

For what it's worth, my main impression for Omujo has been that if you took out the fetish content what you're left with is a bog standard high school ecchi harem manga that never escalates much beyond past panty shots.

That would lean towards a "clean and keep" judgment.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 13th 2020 at 9:15:56 AM

Sorry for butting in here out of nowhere, but I was pointed here regarding this question, but should Baldr Sky and Saya no Uta be restored now that they both have official English releases and have taken the more appropriate measures regarding their content?

Doesn't saya already have a page now ?

Yes, but it is locked. It has a sandbox, but the main page is locked.

EDIT: Also noticed that the sandbox page for Baldr Sky once had a character page, any way to restore that if the main page is restored?

Edited by matteste on Oct 13th 2020 at 8:09:15 AM

What’s our policy when it comes to Ecchi? Because Burokku Girls is concerning. For one thing, it seems as if practically every female character in the game is somehow sexualized.

While the supposed nudity is apparently a lie, looking through the negative reviews, it seems like much of the game focuses on the Fanservice, and many say that the writing is dull, which makes me think that it likely has an Excuse Plot just to show you more girls with colossal breasts.

Edited by jandn2014 on Oct 13th 2020 at 11:27:01 AM

Content policy or not, that page can be cut for being a stub. It only has three tropes listed (the bare minimum), but one of them is zero-context, and it claims to still be "under construction" despite the page's last edit being almost 4 years ago.

Edit: It's cutlisted now.

Edited by Serac on Oct 13th 2020 at 10:31:31 AM

Ecchi is not grounds for a CP cut in general.

If there's nothing to the show but porn, we cut. If there's just nothing to the show, we don't.

Edited by Ramidel on Oct 14th 2020 at 3:53:56 AM

Ecchi does count when it's underage, such as Seikon No Qwaser and that one basketball game.

"Sorry for butting in here out of nowhere, but I was pointed here regarding this question, but should Baldr Sky and Saya no Uta be restored now that they both have official English releases and have taken the more appropriate measures regarding their content?"

IIRC Baldr Sky was trending towards agreement to restore when it was last brought up?

Edited by Adannor on Oct 14th 2020 at 3:59:57 PM

Ecchi isn't a problem unless it sexualizes kids. We have pages for other shows that are made for pure ecchi content and don't have much else to them. For example To Love Ru.

There is an ATT query about creepy gushing in examples for Fanservice. I think it should be made a Definition-Only Page.

Well, it's an index. Maybe switch the redirect Fanservice Tropes?

I only alluded to it in the ATT thread (though I'll edit the link back in for clarity), but if it's relevant to the conversation, Fanservice.The Nostalgia Critic got mocked on Tumblr for its creepy gushing (most of which I've edited out, but it's still sprinkled throughout the page), and I know we don't like pages that make us look creepy.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 17th 2020 at 2:27:04 PM

It's a shame that the inexplicable lust for the Nostalgia Critic is being removed. That's this site's legacy alongside troping the Coronavirus as a Complete Monster and the wannabe badasses making troper tales. Dude had a whole ass fetish fuel page.

People were so horny for the man screeching about bat credit cards and making awful parody movies.

Edited by DrPsyche on Oct 17th 2020 at 11:20:13 PM

I'm actually a Nostalgia Critic fan myself, and one of my ex-friends from that fandom was a frequent troper for his pages, so I just shrugged off the creepy stuff as an accurate analysis of the show because who the hell else cared enough about that page anyway? (Though I did remove one example they'd put in about a character being a submissive into petplay because of a few non-explicit jokes comparing him to a dog.)

Now that I've stepped away from that kind of crowd, and actually rewatching the show...I'm noticing so much of this shit is just straight up inaccurate. Like, you would think the show is actually a fetish show just because it's a Sadist Show (and the sadism is not inherently sexual) and has a few jokes implying Black Comedy Rape. It actually made me deeply uncomfortable as a member of the fandom, and running a cleanup thread to make the pages better resemble what the show is actually about is deeply cathartic. I don't give a shit if people wanna fuck Doug Walker, I can kind of see the appeal to a certain kind of fandom, but don't make the show about your goddamn fetish.

On the Trope Codifier entry for the show, it recently said this until I removed that last part, which really sums up what people think this show is about on this wiki:

• And while the Nerd was the first character reviewer, The Nostalgia Critic was the first to go deeper, having multiple arcs on how being a Caustic Critic has ruined his life, unfolding an abusive backstory out during his run, and of course having a sex life.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 18th 2020 at 5:55:12 AM

Right. There's some sexual jokes and Doug might feed into the fans a little bit, but the examples were creepy and took things out of context just to twist them into something sexual. It's all very weird.

Jokes aside, yeah it was very odd how for years many of the Doug Walker project pages were troping this projection of what certain tropers had of the works rather than the work itself. It really started heading that way around the end of the classic run and his switch to Demo Reel. As funny as the tumblr posts are, you're doing a service by cleaning things up, Mighty.