Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
MLM of color
Badass Longcoat is easy enough, it just needs a rename. Something like Big Coat Big Deal or Action Trenchcoat.
The reason I mentioned Badass Israeli is because I've seen examples that aren't about modern Israel. I believe these examples are misuse and need to be deleted.
Badass Longcoat isn't getting a rename (it has 7200 inbounds and 2900 wicks), but I am not clear how wide it is.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
If Badass Beard is a legitimate trope, then Badass Longcoat is too. It's a quick way of showing how badass a character is.
Nobody is saying that it's not a trope. It's just on the list right now because everything is on the list. I think concerns were raised that it was being overapplied, though.
And I'm not sure Badass Beard is a badass trope. It's more like Manly Beard.
edited 4th Jun '13 9:47:56 AM by Arha
Either way, I think it's fine as-is.
Anyway:
- Badass Gay: Are we going to discuss it some more, or will we just leave it?
- Badass Israeli: If it's just going to be about their special forces, then it should be more along the lines of Semper Fi than a badass trope.
edited 4th Jun '13 9:54:33 AM by videogmer314
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Re Badass Israeli being about the IDF's special forces: Perhaps you guys are looking for Israelis With Infrared Missiles? Or a subtrope of it, along the lines of how Peace Through Superior Firepower and Ultimate Defence Of The Realm are strategic nukes-specific subtropes of Yanks With Tanks and Brits With Battleships?
edited 4th Jun '13 7:02:03 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Those are Useful Notes (-ish?) pages, whereas this would be a character archetype.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Good point, but that makes me wonder why give a trope to Israeli special forces on their own, when special forces in general are typically badass compared to regular soldiers.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
There is a set of associations and stereotypes with the Israeli ones.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hey! I got an Idea for a new Badass trope. Since Badass Longhair has turned into a Disambiguation, we can replace it as a new trope, like Long Haired Badass, where a Badass has longer hair, just like the original trope.
Hell no. That would just recreate all its previous problems again.
To be specific, Badass Longhair was misused as "badass + long hair" (and sometimes just "long hair"). Not seeing why Long Haired Badass would fare better. And besides, if a trope was removed in TRS, why immediately restart it again.
edited 5th Jun '13 2:27:21 AM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
As a matter of advice, please pick either this thread or PM to ask me. Not both.
See the post edit. We just removed Badass Longhair (by turning it into a disambig). Why immediately restart it?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Okay, how about Badass Mane?
Exactly same problem(s). Changing the name won't fix them.
Also, we have Badass Beard in case that you are searching for it.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Then how exactly we'll resolve these problems?
These problems were resolved my making Badass Longhair into a disambig. Your proposition was essentially to recreate it - which aside from likely contradicting the Badass Longhair crowner would just recreate the problems.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Thanks. Pardon, by the way, for my slightly awkward response.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
That's okay, man. But, what we'll do to use Badass Longhair properly? You know, without misusing it as "badass + long hair" (and sometimes just "long hair").
edited 5th Jun '13 2:46:40 AM by Jess
The proper use of a disambig page is to use the tropes listed on it. Not the disambig.
And of note, the results of the crowner was to split Badass Longhair into several tropes as it wasn't seen as a trope of it's own.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Badass Longhair isn't a trope, so list the character under badass. There are also specific options that are tropes under the disambiguation, but if it doesn't fit one of those then it's not a trope as we currently have them defined.
Now that makes sense. So let's think of another trope ethier about another badass hairstyle or about a man wearing his hair long (I swear it's not Badass Longhair, nor Long-Haired Pretty Boy, nor Barbarian Longhair.)
edited 5th Jun '13 2:55:20 AM by Jess
If you want us to do something you need to tell us how long hair is a trope since we're not here to do your work for you. There's Long Hair Is Feminine potentially, Long-Haired Pretty Boy, Samurai Ponytail, Barbarian Longhair, Wild Hair, Rapunzel Hair and I don't know how many others that all deal with what you're talking about, but none of them is just long hair on a guy.
I think we're holding off on Badass Gay because that one required a lot of debate.
As I recall, the Badass Israeli thing was felt to be strongly tied only to their special forces.