Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
Cross-wired freak
We did it!
That was oddly satisfying, are there any ongoing dewicking projects?
Listen to my podcast
Discarded and Feeling Blue
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Plenty of TRS threads are waiting for wicks to be cleaned. Find any with the star.
I'm surprised how fast that was. I find it funny that this is the second time I've encountered a ghost wick to "Murder (Sci 100)" while cleaning, both in LGBT-related tropes.
So, what next? Do we do Action Girl or save that for last and do Cool Old Guy instead?
Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 16th 2020 at 5:55:32 AM
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The Unknown Unknown
I have a feeling many were ready to get rid of Badass Gay since isn't that what started this whole cleanup?
Anyway, uh, I know what the problem is for Action Girl, but what is it for Cool Old Guy?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
It seems like everyone is ready to discuss Action Girl, so I think we should do that one next.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
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Cool old guy is just a motion to rename. It's not a dewicking process thing.
That's just one at most two crowners, otherwise not sure how the rename process works.
- Crowner 1: Rename Yes or No.
If Yes...
- Crowner 2: What should the name be.
Edited by acrobox on Sep 16th 2020 at 3:15:30 AM
Discarded and Feeling Blue
We'd still need to go through all the wicks to rename though.
I brought up Badass Biker before; it suffers from multiple character archetypes being conflated due to the ambiguity of the word "badass". Obviously we're doing other things now but can I add it to the sandbox for later?
WRT Action Girl, I think the problem is less that it's misused and more that it's become so ubiquitous that it just doesn't seem worth listing. I think a lot of times there is a better subtrope that can be used instead (World of Action Girls for a lot of action/adventure stories, for example).
I think the problem is less Trope Decay and more the substantial element of the troper base that thinks tropes are good and like to add redundant entries, whether that's listing something on every character page that could just be listed once, or listing both the broad supertrope as well as the subtropes (violates wiki rules, but is widespread).
I am against renaming for reasons Septimus mentioned. It is a massive amount of work. I don't think the name is especially unclear either. I think misuse is more a function of how popular it is, so tropers learn through osmosis rather than actually ever reading the page.
Edited by naturalironist on Sep 16th 2020 at 8:19:19 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Do we turn it into a disambiguation/index then?
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You can go ahead and add Badass Biker to the sandbox
I don't think Action Girl is so ubiquitous that it's worth barring examples for. Compare Character Death — that's an Omnipresent Trope, yet it allows examples (on other pages). Of course, there's a whole index of more specific tropes as well.
Edited by Twiddler on Sep 17th 2020 at 12:46:24 PM
^ So should it disallow on page examples like Character Death does?
I think the proposal to only allow Action Girl examples in genres where it's not expected won't work, because that seems to fundamentally change the definition too much.
Also, can we change what trope is listed at the top as the one under discussion?
Goku Black
Couldn't we just turn Action Girl into an index. It already has several examples of what goes into it already on the main page.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Action Girl was supposed to be turned into an index years ago. The process started and never finished.
The Unknown Unknown
Well, that's one way to start.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Support turning it into an index.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
That's the same issue Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) has with the Something Awful Let's Play of the same name.
Edited by ccorb on Sep 18th 2020 at 2:23:50 PM
Rock'n'roll never dies!
Oh wow, really? Well I suppose we should finish what we started. +1 to Action Girl as an index.
Sidenote, Action Girl has namespace collision with a comic book of the same name. We should fix that before we start dewicking.
Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 18th 2020 at 1:06:01 PM
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Not so fast. An index of what? And what happens to examples?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Discarded and Feeling Blue
It'd be like the Distaff Counterpart of the Badass index and I guess examples would only be kept if they don't fit an applicable subtrope and aren't just "female character can punch things".
Indexes don't have examples. If we allow some examples it would just be a super-trope.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Would that be a bad thing?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
No. It's just not the same thing as making it an index. We should be precise about what we want to do to avoid confusion.
wow that was fast.