Pretty Cure general thread

To be honest, you are exactly right, what I wanted to say is that Nagisa assigns herself the responsibilty. She may say she resents the duty, and complain, but what she has above all is sympathy and empathy more than responsibility.

I am having a pretty frustration with someone on reddit about weather the Max Hear Novel is canon or not. And I know I'm dumb for not letting this argument go to.

I'm not sure if I'm being up my own ass, so I want a second opinion on what I'm saying. For context the Max Hear Novel is an alternate ending to the tv series that gets into some multiversal stuff and says that Hikari/Luminous is some kind of special case were there is only one of her in the entire multiverse.

My argument is that the novel is intended as a separate continuity to the show (being an alternate ending to it and all) and that even putting that aside, by it's own rules it and the show could not possibly co exist within the same multiverse (since there is only one Hikari according to the novel).

His argument against this is that they are in separate coexisting multiverses.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Apr 27th 2024 at 1:20:25 AM

Haven't gotten to Max Heart yet (thanks for reminding me to finish Futari wa) but the novel having an "alternate ending" would make it an Alternate Continuity from the show by default, right?

( Ninja-edited. "The novel have an alternate ending". Nice one, me.)

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Apr 27th 2024 at 1:10:44 PM

13. A funny episode that doesn't require Iroha to lose all her braincells. Progress. I trust Detective Komugi to solve the case. Best scene was Iroha trying to get Komugi to nya. Mayu, I know you think Nyammy looks pretty, but please don't throw yourself into danger more than once. Nyammy for her part is doing a decent job not making her relation to Mayu obvious. I'm glad Nyammy is in the show now, but they better not drag out the mystery and integrate the cats into the group sooner rather than later.

Episode 13 first impressions under the spoiler text!

Even though the "search" for Cure Nyammy was nice and silly, I do feel like this episode was mostly Filler. Iroha and Satoru continue to have very cute chemistry together, and I would totally believe it if they get a Relationship Upgrade at the season finale. Frustratingly Komugi comes SO CLOSE to realizing who Nyammy is... Come on, who's white, has the charm on her, and would say "nya"? Maybe the sheepdog?

Another episode without a "???" sighting, too, which is a shame, but on the bright side, Nyammy herself is as gallant and violent as ever. Am I the only one who's noting a bit of Ho Yay between Nyammy and Mayu, though? She gets to do a Bridal Carry, and at the very end, she gets all close and personal, and Mayu's blushing... sort of weird if you ask me. Cap this off with a Garugaru "fight" that reminds me of a question I had to answer on my Physics final last year, and you have a weirdly "meh" episode. Hopefully the plot starts to pick up soon. I really want to know what the deal is with that spooky wolf.

Easily the wackiest episode of the season so far. Loved it.

So I was browsing outside this wiki, and I saw a theory about upcoming content for Wonderful. The theory goes like this: our apparent Big Bad, the wolf guy, is actually one of the Kirarin Animals. Either Evil All Along, or some kind of "super-Garugaru" that can actually think instead of just mindlessly attacking things. They were citing the wolf's glowing red eyes being the same shape as the Garugaru's eyes, and some merchandise spoilers that I can't confirm are actually legit or not because they're not on the season's website.

Do you think there's any basis for this theory? Or is it just a wild shot in the dark?

Let's go the extra mile.

He's Niko and he decided humans must die after seeing how crappy they treat animals.

It'd be sad if they do the "turns out I'm being controlled by an evil cockroach out of nowhere" trope like they did throughout several of the Cures, but even then, that'd be a lot more nuanced than the villain from the anime made for adults

Edited by Psyga315 on May 3rd 2024 at 2:41:07 AM

Hello, this is the first time I write in this forum, I wanted to take the opportunity to give my opinion on the first chapters of Wonderful Precure.

As it stands right now it is going to become the worst Precure series of all time.

Has one of the most horrible cases of Padding/Arc Fatigue, basically delaying everything that helps any series, whether Precure or not, move forward or be at least interesting.

Removing physical combat in this series is a fatal mistake, it takes away so much expectation from the series that it disqualifies it as a Precure series and makes it uninteresting.

Removing the generals from the series but maintaining the evil event generated by them is a serious error since this type of series needs the generals so that the event in question has its reason for existing, in addition these same ones would be the Hate Sink necessary to be able to channel any physical or offensive battle if they wanted to maintain the instance of not hitting the monsters of the week.

Here delaying the appearance of the other members of the team (the cat girls), does feel like a problem unlike the other series that tried it, the mistake being that from the beginning they give us to understand who the missing members are in the opening and appear in the series from the beginning, but they have not been brought into the main plot until it is too late to generate any positive emotion, this error is more noticeable by the absence of the battle elements that characterize the franchise. As a curiosity, the only reason why Cure Nyammy's debut doesn't feel bad is because her debut brought back the elements that make the Precure series functional. It is also curious that her debut is technically a mistake since it was noticeable that Nyammy's actions were intended to have negative aspects in comparison, those were overshadowed thanks to all the errors of the series as such.

One of the most absurd mistakes is delaying the debut of the main weapon, since that made the first "battles" that were already very anticlimactic, worse thanks to the absence of any technique that would make it more credible, looking more like an Ass Pull than a legitimate victory since there is no connection between the Precure and the victims of the week, these types of non-offensive battles only work if those involved are very close and that is why these dynamics are only suitable for battles against best friends. Furthermore, the vast majority of the battle techniques of the weapon in question are horrible in every aspect and have no relation to what is shown of their counterparts as monsters of the week.

As things are going with the series, my only reason for continuing to watch the series is out of commitment to have a complete opinion of the series rather than to enjoy it.

Yeah well that's just like your opinion man.

It's mostly the terrible handling of the cats bringing the season down. Even then it's still above several seasons at this point.

14. A sleepover episode is a good excuse for the entire cast to just banter among themselves and really show off the group dynamics. Too bad that falls flat when half the group barely or doesn't talk at all during the sleepover. Can't believe Iroha couldn't figure out an excuse to take her dog outside. At least Mayu is finally in on the plot. I'd be a lot more positive on the show if this happened sooner. Now she knows what's going on the next time she runs into danger hoping to meet her dashing rescuer. Yuki was barely in the episode, and she was still the best part hating the dog duo for various reasons.

Honestly, the lack of violence is a breath of fresh air, and a good message to children, too.

Episode 14 first impressions under the spoiler text!

Still haven't heard from our Big Bad yet, which was a bit of a disappointment, but the good news is that this episode moved the plot along a bit! The Masquerade is broken, and now Mayu knows about Precure and Komugi's transformation. It'll be nice to hear from Nyammy again once Yuki is feeling better. Also, Episode 15's preview showed a lot of Niko Garden as well as a Kirarin Gazelle (?), perhaps, so maybe we'll get to see the villain again next week. Things are looking up for this show... although, if I had one critique for this episode, I have to say the Garugaru fight wasn't super great. That is not how sound works.

Honestly Precure doesn't need fights to be a good show. I've been saying for years that not every episode needs a fight and personally I think Maho Girls has the worst fights in the franchise from what I've seen (So basically everything but FW/MH and the second half of Star Twinkle.) yet I still enjoyed it despite that. Hell, I liked the fights in Delicious Party (I'd even go far as to say the fights are one of the few good things about it.) and that is a season I'd consider a contender for worst season alongside Healin' Good. The fights in Wonderful might not be the best but I still enjoy most episodes and while I could also criticize the show for taking too long to introduce the full team (Which is a criticism I'd leavy at Hirogaru just as much.) at least they're doing something interesting with Nyammy even if it's a bit of a retread of Muse/Fortune in some ways.

Sorry but I can't take the idea of Wonderful being the worst season seriously when we have seasons like Healin' Good and Delicious Party that are just plain boring and a slog to watch. I can at least see myself rewatching Wonderful in the future. Aside from select episodes, I would not want to rewatch the other two. Though I did say the same about GoGo! and I actually enjoyed that on a rewatch I did in preperation for Otona last year so who knows how my opinion could change in the future.

Edited by Chariot on May 4th 2024 at 11:34:53 AM

Wonderful could delay the cats if Komugi and Iroha were half as good as Sora and Mashiro. But they aren't. They're just okay. So instead we're just waiting to get the crew together while the writers dangle the more interesting characters in front of us for a dozen episodes. At least Bird Boy had long since joined by now, and while Ageha took a bit too long to transform she was part of the story almost immediately.

The action scenes are worse than usual, but it's not like the usual fights are great more than once in awhile. I don't generally care about a lackluster plot, but we're hitting Smile levels of not having a plot (disguised by how this Nyammy arc is dragging), which is not a good place to be. The show is saved by Komugi sometimes doing neat dog things and Mayu managing to be compelling even while off to the side.

Nyammy arc has been pretty fun, it's doing something we don't usually see in Precure.

Worst series is Max Heart, easily.

I really want to defend Max Heart, but I am just struggling to even continue with it. I AM STUCK at episode 15 and its just a chore to watch, I really want to watch the season where Cure Black and Cure White truly earned their Badass Cred, but a reddit poster said it best. "Futari Wa, the Max Heart duology, is just NOT A GOOD episodic series" and that's SO TRUE. The better episodes are serialized and that's just episodes 1-26 of the first series, after that EVERYTHING DRAGS ON. I dont even believe in the "Is its filler its crap" but the first series is just NOT SO GOOD and you are better off watching any other precure series... Unless it DOES appeal to you, then its good.

Sorry but while Healin Good isn't amazing it doesn't belong on that list. Granted your main argument about HG has always boiled down to "any merits others see in it, are bullshit". So I doubt there's much point in arguing with you there.

DP being the worse, sure I can agree there, but ultimately DP was just a mediocre show, rather than a truly bad one. It was pretty boring for people like us, but there was nothing bad for kids in it and from what I understand the kids it was meant for seemed to like it well enough. And given the staff have outright said they don't put much thought into weather the older fans will like a season (just focusing on making a fun show for kids) I guess DP was mission accomplished there. My point is DP being the worst they can do is kind of a complement to this franchise.

As for Wonderful, the characters are fine and the "lack of plot" isn't really a problem considering the show is clearly meant to episodic. And given how most Precure seasons, including fan favorites like Heartcatch were episodic shows, with little focus on the overarching story, so it's a double standard to decide it's suddenly bad for modern seasons to do this, when that's always been how the franchise did things, with Doki Doki and to a lesser degree Star Twinkle, being the only major acceptations that come to mind.

In regards to the lack of fights. I have my issues, but I'll start by making two points in it's defense. 1: No one has any right to dictate what a show should be other than it's creators and I think trying to force one's idea of what the show should be doing, over what the creators are actually trying to do, is always bad angle of critique. 2: From a narrative stand point, the monsters of the week are frightened and suffering animals, so having the Cures beat them up, would be problematic to say the least.

That being said, Precure is a franchise that was conceptualized as an action series and part of the point was to be a girls show that had the kind of intense actions that would usually be reserved for a boys show. So having a show with no fighting, kind of goes against one of the core ideas of the franchise. And the ultimate merits of Precure was it's ability to be a fun silly kid's show, that was still capable of having it's moments of high stakes drama, owing to the franchises status as a somewhat lighter and softer distaff counterpart to Kamen Rider and Super Sentai. And I do feel Wonderful loses some of that and even loses some of heroic virtues the Cures represent (although by no means all of them), by ditching the action.

However I don't know how much I can truly begrudge Wonderful for that. What it's trying to do isn't for me, but it's not like these shows are made for me in the first place and it's not like it's doing a bad job at what it is trying to do.

This episode partially answers something I had been wondering about concerning Komugi turning into a human. Specifically, I wondered if she still had dog-like senses in human form or if it changed to be more like an average human's. I was most curious about her sense of smell but this story showed that she still has more sensitive hearing in human form, like she does as a dog. So I assume unless it shows otherwise, she probably still has a dog-like sense of smell in human form. I was imagining that if her senses turned more human-like, she would think that she went deaf and lost her ability to smell things but might also notice being able to see more colors and visual details.

As for my opinion of the series so far, I am loving it, and find the characters' relationships with their pets to be very relatable, since I am very devoted to my own small dogs (Pomeranians). Komugi, as I've said, reminds me of my own dogs, and also the way Mayu finds comfort in Yuki is similar to how my dogs comfort me and I prefer their company to that of other humans most of the time. For me, personally, the Cures' characters and the general themes of each series matter more to me than the fights and the villains, so this season not having much traditional Pretty Cure fisticuffs isn't an issue for me, but I can understand if other fans dislike it. As of now, Kirakira is my favorite Pretty Cure series with Star Twinkle as a close second, but this one might beat either of those depending on how the rest of it turns out. I've enjoyed all the Pretty Cure series, though, so I might be easier to please when it comes to Pretty Cure compared to other adult Western fans.

Edited by Rainbow on May 5th 2024 at 9:12:51 AM

As someone who's only seen up to episode 30 of the original Futari wa and has been watching Wonderful weekly since about episode 7-ish, I can't really call Wonderful a bad show, or even a bad season of anime. Roger Ebert once said, "it's not what it's about, but how it's about it". I think that's important to keep in mind when comparing this season to others.

• Futari wa is a more intense show with a more traditional "chosen heroes against the forces of darkness" narrative, and the stakes are much higher because the villains are placed front-and-center. It's a show as much about its antagonists as it is about its heroes; every villain has a fleshed-out personality and fighting style, and the question to answer in battle is "can Pretty Cure fight back against overwhelming odds?". Their unlikely friendship can weather any obstacle in front of them. With the help of beating the shit out of the bad guys, of course. I would characterize this show as a "shonen for girls", with some Slice of Life elements to break up the action.

• Wonderful is much Lighter and Softer, since the narrative is centered on the bonds between pets and their owners (and how it can change to found family if they turn human). The focus here is squarely on the heroes and the supporting cast. Aside from brief whispers of a Big Bad here and there, the "villains" are essentially abused animals lashing out; not a problem to be dealt with using violence, but with the patience, kindness, and respect that these animals deserve. Because of that, the question to answer in battles is, "how can Pretty Cure deal with each animal's unique traits and needs, and how can this be won without animal cruelty?". This show is essentially a Slice of Life, with some action scenes to break up the usual pitfalls of that genre.

With the tastes in media that I have, I think Futari wa is a good show to bingewatch, while Wonderful is a good show to give you a nice palate cleanser after a hard week. They're not better or worse, just different. And I'm really glad Pretty Cure can do these sorts of genre shifts — it prevents the show from becoming bland, repackaged tripe.

Otona sucks though.

I have to agree with all the points here, except one. Otona doesn't just "suck"; it's a disappointment for not delivering on the hype it had tried to sell.

Wonderful avoids this trap while being its own distinct identity, its own mix, of the franchise's formula. Are the writers being Anvilicious about their message? Definitely, but they are morally consistent in their delivery. The focus and onus should be on the heroes to make sure this consistency is maintained (hence the conflict with Nyammy). To that end, it IS a success (at least for now). The lack of knowing the Big Bad (sorry, Big Baaaaaaaaad) is very disappointing for how far we are into the show; but I expect that to change once Yuki / Nyammy and Mayu / Lillian become full members of the team.

Edited by aNinjaWithAIDS on May 5th 2024 at 10:47:34 AM

Adding to that, Otona was basically just a normal Precure show in a reunion show's clothing, same basic plots and everything without adding anything new to the table beyond "uh, I guess we can tie up a romantic loose end and untie several dozen more".

Edited by Psyga315 on May 5th 2024 at 9:31:09 AM

I would disagree there, Otona was pretty much the Precure formula filtered through the adult experience and had a core theme about how what the Precure stand for doesn't lose it's meaning in the more cynical world of adulthood.

That's not to say Otona isn't disappointing in a lot of ways in my opinion, because it was an ok show that should have been a great show and it is sloppy in a lot of areas.

But in spite of my own issues with it, I don't trust the word of anyone who says it sucks, because I've yet to see a single person with that view who doesn't at best make a lot of bad faith criticisms of it and at worse outright lie about the show. And this is without getting into people deliberately trying to present the fandom as universally hating the show, despite that not being the case.

Let's put a good example. I think Bell was a bad villain. But at the same time, I also acknowledge that many people completely misunderstand the character and her motivations, despite the show outright spelling it out (she's not an environmentalist), nor do these people seem to get the intended dramatic irony of her character and that she's meant to be a hypocrite. Now to be clear, I don't think Otona really pulls those things off well, with her, hence why I consider her a bad villain. But so many people refuse to even attempt to understand what the show was going for with her, that I frankly don't trust their opinions.

Otona has three major flaws in my eyes, having seen it.

• Too unfocused and poorly paced as a result. Otona doesn't have the luxury of pacing its story out into a 48-to-50-episode series like the other seasons, so it has to do a lot in a very short time. The issue is that it tries to include Splash Star into a story that's about Yes! 5, and the end result is that each character gets A Day in the Limelight — taking up roughly the first two thirds of the show — and then it's the final battle. None of the characters feel fleshed out beyond their episodes because of that. I think the story could have been a lot tighter with just the Yes! 5 cast, or, barring that, just the Splash Star cast. (Or maybe the Futari wa cast, since they appear at the very end?) 12 episodes isn't enough for a story with eight heroines. It's just not.
• The villain is absolutely horrible. Not in the way this series usually has horrible villains, but just... totally nonsensical and tone-deaf. Bell's entire plan is so riddled with holes that it takes up half the What an Idiot! page. Just take a gander at that. I don't care about spoilers for this, there was hardly a coherent plot in Otona to begin with. She might have worked as a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist (which would have made the plan less stupid, since it has malevolent motivations), but the infuriating thing is that she's portrayed as someone who learns the error of her ways, when she's essentially an Eco-Terrorist who nearly blows up an entire city out of sheer idiocy. She gets no comeuppance and just... disappears. And then The Stinger implies the Shadows will be back again someday soon, so she created a permanent problem. Great job there, Bell. I hate you.
• Too many unresolved plot threads. Sure, Coco and Nozomi get married by the end, but what about the other characters? Does Karen get to have a Relationship Upgrade with Kurumi? Does Urara ever get to see Syrup again? Does Bunbee ever have another run-in with the cast? Does Mai get to do anything besides push Saki to study abroad? Does Milk successfully become Prime Minister, or is her "rebellion" put down by the Palmier monarchy? The show leaves behind way more questions than answers. The central conflict, the Time Flowers, aren't explained well either — they're portents of disaster implied to represent each Cure's lifespan, but then, they actually aren't and Nozomi is completely fine after it withers! Why even have that in the story, then? What was the point, besides not having to animate a Transformation Sequence for the adult Cures? How were they even "de-aged"? And why weren't the Time Flowers blooming during whatever villains' attacks on Palmier in the past?

It's a shame. It had the potential to tell a really mature, interesting story with the premise of "what happens when magical girls grow up". Like Pretty Cure's Toy Story 3, sort of. But we're left with... this. Aggravates me in the extreme, and I think people who have actually watched Yes 5! and Splash Star have a right to be even angrier.

The Yes 5 sequel was a great slice of life story and a bad magical girl show? Who could have ever seen that coming? The magical girl stuff mostly sucked, but the character work was top notch. Got me to actually care about Mai for once.

Splash Star would never get its own sequel show, which is probably why it was thrown in with Yes 5. But Otona should've been its own thing exploring everyone's adult lives. I think the Bell plot would've actually worked in a Splash Star focused show. Her motive would've made sense if she's angry about humans trampling over nature, Splash Star already has precedence with a specific place being important, and Bell resonated with the Kiryuus in the one time they met. Alas, I'm just happy Yes 5 got treated well enough and hope Maho gets to be its own thing without anyone else coming in.