Removing Gushing from the Wiki

I concur

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

I'm not bothered by it either, though there can be a problem in pinpointing just what is the [insert genre here].

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

On one hand, I feel like these "The X" openers are unnecessary and a bit gushy, and as SpaceKABOOM pointed out, they can be inaccurate. I would rather have an explanation about the work's impact.

On the other hand, if there is such an explanation, wouldn't that violate the "no mentioning reception in the description" rule?

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.

I think there's a difference between audience reception and explaining how a work influenced other works.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I'd like to discuss another round of [The Trope] examples while here (previous post here).

• Series.The Wire: The Police/Criminal Genre Deconstruction.

This aired in 2002. There are many media that deconstructed them before like The Godfather. Another HBO show The Sopranos also predates it. I'd cut it.

• Franchise.Dragon Ball: The Shōnen Fighting Series.

Not to downplay the success of Dragon Ball, but this is an oversimplified statement on the anime/manga's history. There are many iconic fighting shonen both before (Devilman, Kinnikuman, Fist of the North Star) and after (JoJo, Bastard!!). I'd cut it.

• Literature.Left Behind: The one that made the Rapture common knowledge.

I'm not familiar with this topic, but I think the Rapture was a common knowledge before this was published in 1995. The Late Great Planet Earth predates this and was a success. An example on Caught Up in the Rapture even lists The Late Great Planet Earth as Trope Codifier, not this book. It might worth writing that this book helped spread the knowledge, but this claim is dubious to keep.

• WesternAnimation.Mickey Mouse: The cartoon character.
• WesternAnimation.Bugs Bunny: The (other) cartoon character.

Unless I'm mistaken, genres are not treated as a trope. Beyond that, for Bugs Bunny, directing the reader to other entry is not a good way to start a page.

I'd agree. The Wire is highly acclaimed and extremely influential, for example. But that's all for YMMV and maybe Trivia...

On Hatsune Miku, "The Virtual Celebrity" was added to the description around November 6th.

Edited by nanakiro on Nov 20th 2023 at 9:03:18 AM

I am legit starting to think this issue should get its own thread. Its THE current issue.

lol

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

I found one on Characters.Cutey Honey:

The Soldier of Love.

The Transhuman Robot Girl.

The Bane of Panther Claw.

The Magical Girl Warrior.

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.

One more for the collection. Boatmurdered:

Perhaps the Let's Play for Dwarf Fortress

I agree we could make a short term cleanup thread for these.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Sandbox.The The Trope Archive

I decided to create this sandbox first to keep track of how many [The Trope] there are. Any help is welcome. I split them into work and character pages because I found character pages attract a lot of these, such as:

• Characters.Super Mario Bros Bowser: The Big Bad of gaming. THE Final Boss.

I honestly think there're too many famous Big Bad and Final Boss to put this into Bowser's description.

Dragon Ball could at least be termed "The codifier and populariser of the Shōnen Fighting Series" since whatever came before or after, it set down the pattern for the genre (which can't be said of the much darker Fist of the North Star with its World of Muscle Men look, or the very quirky Jojo's Bizarre Adventure), and it's the only title that you can rely on anyone outside Japan knowing about (only Sailor Moon and Pokemon come anywhere close to its pop-culture penetration).

However, my main concern about the Franchise.Dragon Ball is that the description is way too long. There are three paragraphs simply for the dubs. Parts of it should be summarised and the full information under trope entries.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

...What?

This simply isn't true. Maybe it was, a few decades ago.

Remember, Fan Myopia. Sure there are way more people that knoW Fist Of The North Star or Kinnikuman nowadays but its still Dragon Ball that is more well known. Still, this shouldnt even be in the description so its a moot point anyway.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

(x3) I can rewrite the description in the last paragraph to include that it was one of the first Fighting Series that was dubbed and became successful outside Japan.

Yeah, but I don't even mean like Fist of the North Star.

Bleach, Naruto and One Piece have been very popular with western audiences all for the past ten years or more, and that's just shonen. I could list ten more off the top of my head.

To say Dragonball the "only" title known outside Japan is hyperbole that borders on outright lies.

Edited by ArthurEld on Nov 24th 2023 at 5:38:54 AM

I meant the only title that anyone would know, in the sense that you could pick someone off the street and they would recognise it, even if they had never watched an episode. The "Big Three" were successful, but I know most of my family do not recognise their titles.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

That is the very definition of anecdotal evidence.

"My family wouldnt know them, so they dont count."

Arthur: That's not what the meant or implied. It implied that Dragon Ball is THE manga that inspired all others, not that its the only one people know about. But then again that shouldnt even be there, even if true, anyway.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

(x9) I think it can be removed for the reasons you stated.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Nov 26th 2023 at 5:57:05 AM

Yeah, I went ahead and rewrote it. I'll check more character pages.

I'm a-OK with a cross-the-board cut of these. As I've said in the past, I'm vaguely okay with examples that legitimately were the trope creators and sole examples of the genre for a time, but they add so little and lead to so much Overly Narrow Superlative and/or way-too-broad gushing that none of them are worthwhile.

Sidenote: Even with DBZ's relatively recent renaissance and objectively higher impact on other works, I think Naruto has probably surpassed it in the west in terms of saturation and recognition amongst the normie crowd, at least for Gen Z-ers. This probably has to do with it being infinitely more merchandisable than DBZ ever was.

Edited by Larkmarn on Nov 28th 2023 at 10:27:15 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

The Twelve Kingdoms has major gushing in the description: "a detailed and enthralling plot", "the people have a striking realism to them; very little of it is forced", "healthy shipping" and such. I'm also unsure if the comparison to Fushigi Yuugi is helpful, there were plenty of other stories with such a premise even before today's isekai boom. So I would like anyone familiar with it to edit it a bit.

Edited by Reymma on Nov 28th 2023 at 5:27:44 PM

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

On the subject of "The X" openers, Spell My Name with a "The" has a paragraph on how these are a TVTropes tradition, so if these are being removed (which I support) then that should go too.