Hey, so the trope page lists Richter being in simon’s trailer as an example of Wolverine Publicity, but...is it? Wolverine Publicity is when you use an appearance by a popular character to give something a boost.

But Smash Bros. really isn’t getting any kind of boost from Richter being there is it? He’s like, the third-most popular Castlevania protagonist AT BEST. And Smash wasn’t exactly hurting for sales without him.

Are people cool with me removing that?

Yeah. If anything this is the opposite.

Who would even count as Wolverine Publicity in smash? Besides everyone, arguably.

I still don't care about Waluigi. I'm happy with the roster, between changing tastes, and the fact that several character changes I'd previously wanted were actually already implemented. The remaining I'd like is:

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Ongoing running post about the changes I'd make to Smash Bros:

Character inclusions

Playable Character Wishlist

3rd Party Fighter Pass:

1. Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes series)
2. Shantae (Shantae series)
3. Tails (Sonic The Hedgehog Series)
4. Agumon (Digimon and Tamagotchi series)
5. Yoshimitsu (Tekken and Soul Calibur series)

1st Party Fighter Pass:

1. (Partner) Eevee (Pokemon series)
2. Adeleine & Ribbon (Kirby series)
3. Viridi (Kid Icarus series)

Echoes Pass:

1. Proto Man (Echo of Mega Man)
   • Attribute change(s): Passive shield while standing or jumping, and takes recoil damage from all Mega Buster/Charge Shot moves (compare Pichu).
   • Moveset change(s): Mega Man's Smash 4 customs - Neutral+B Shadow Blade, Side+B Ice Slasher, Down+B Danger Wrap (originally a Side+B), Up+B Tornado Hold
2. Medusa (Echo of Palutena)
   • Attribute change(s): slightly faster Autoreticle startup and cooldown, for more projectile spam, and replace angel wing Smash attacks with small explosions.
   • Moveset change(s): Palutena's Smash 4 customs - Side+B Super Speed, Down+B Lightweight, Up+B Rocket Jump
3. Black Shadow (Echo of Captain Falcon)
   • Attribute change(s): Inherit Ganondorf's Smash 4 attributes, Heavy Armor on all attack animations, slowest initial dash in the game, but over the course of each stock, his fall, walk, and run speed gradually increase until he's slightly faster than Captain Falcon in those areas
   • Moveset change(s): Inherit Ganondorf's Smash 4 moves (Ganondorf would be changed as per below). Up+B would be changed to Captain Falcon's "Falcon Strike" Custom.
4. Dixie Kong (Echo of Diddy Kong)
   • Attribute change(s): None
   • Moveset change(s): Side+B Diddy's Back Flip custom, Up+B Donkey's Spinning Kong, Down+B Donkey's Headbutt (originally a Side+B), hair tether grab
5. Louie (or Alph) (Echo of Olimar)
   • Attribute change(s): None
   • Moveset change(s): Olimar's Smash 4 customs - Neutral+B Hardy Pikmin Pluck, Side+B Sticky Pikmin Throw, Down+B Order Tackle, and possibly Up+B Mighty Winged Pikmin

New Assist Trophies:

1. Wonder Red (The Wonderful 101)
2. Daroach (Kirby series)
3. Chun Li (Street Fighter series)
4. The Three Mage-Sisters (Kirby Series)

New Mii Costumes:

• Viewtiful Joe (Brawler)
• (Upside-down) L Block (Brawler)
• J Block (Brawler)
• Line Piece (Brawler)
• Nightmare (Swordfighter)
• Sophitia (Swordfighter)
• Neptune (Swordfighter)
• White Heart (Swordfighter)
• Tracer (Gunner)
• Contra Commando (Gunner)
• Prinny (all)

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Character gameplay changes

Daisy:

• Upwards F-Smash uses baseball bat, not frying pan
• Change Up+B to "Jump Smash", based on the Parasol High Jump, except with a tennis racket instead of parasol, and spiking downward swing of the racket at the end.
• Down+B only spawns Soccer Balls
• Change Final Smash to a cinematic Torpedo Strike
• Cosmetic changes:
  • 4 of her alternate costumes would be sports outfits
  • Change one of her taunts to "HI, I'M DAISY!"

Jigglypuff:

• Rest: Hold B to stay asleep and slowly heal while sleeping.

Mewtwo:

• Significantly increase grab range using telekinesis, on par with short tether grabs.
• Disable: can put an airborne opponent into the helpless state.
• Add Wall Cling

Charizard:

• Flare Blitz doesn't do recoil damage if it doesn't hit anything.

Samus:

• Side+B Homing Missiles actually home in. Missiles can't be beaten by a weak attack.
• Rename Down+B to "Morph Ball". Same as Bomb currently is, but holding B keeps you in Morph Ball's smaller form. Move with the control stick.

Dark Samus:

• Change Side+B, Down+B, and Down Smash respectively to smaller versions of the Scattershot, Homing Shot, and Phazon Tendrils it used when it was an Assist Trophy
• Change Final Smash to a "Metroid Prime" attack (similar to Bayonetta's)

Ridley:

• Increase weight to at least Ganondorf's
• Add a third midair jump
• Up+B has 6 directions (up, down, and 4 diagonals)

Ike:

• Cosmetic change: four of his costumes would use his father's axe instead of his sword.
• Ike's Final Smash Great Aether would heal him for half the damage he inflicts.

Roy:

• Change Roy's Side+B to a forward step flaming slash with a projectile similar to Lucas' PK Fire
• Change Roy's Dash attack and Forward Aerial to both be stabs angled slightly upwards.

Lucina & Chrom:

• Echoes of each other, with the differences from each other being their grip style and their Up+B.
• Change Neutral+B to "Support": summon Robin to use Thunder. The level used changes depending on how long it's held.
• Change Side+B to Iai Counter, which if used in midair moves the user a small step forward, regardless of if it counters anything or not. It also launches the opponent behind the user.
• Change Down+B to "Level Up": Only usable on the ground, up to 5 times per Stock, and lasts til the end of the stock. The user holds a pose, and receives a small, random stat buff to either attack strength, movement speed, or launch resistance.
  • On the fifth use only, the move becomes "Promotion", which buffs strength, movement speed, and launch resistance.
• Robin's "Pair Up" Final Smash

Ganondorf (representing pre-timeline split and OOT):

• Change Neutral Aerial to spinning Pig Ganon's trident around himself, like Ivysaur's Neutral Aerial
• Change Up Aerial to an upwards trident stab
• Change Down Aerial to a stall then fall version of Wizard Foot
• Replace Neutral+B with Warlock Blade (custom from Smash 4), using Pig Ganon's Trident
• Edit his Up+B so that he teleports up, instead of floating up
  • Hold Up in midair to very briefly hover, if it doesn't hit anyone
• Replace Down+B with "Dead Man's Volley", a slow projectile flung from his hand. It can beat weaker projectiles. While it's out, repeating the move instead serves as a reflector.
  • Ganondorf hovers while using this move in midair, or if he has downward momentum while doing it, that momentum is decreased.

Young Link (representing Child Timeline):

• Change Side+B to "Bombs and Boomerangs": A smash input throws a boomerang, but a tilt input draws a bomb.
• New Down+B: Ocarina of Time (can't be used midair), a menu with three options:
  • Song of (Double) Time: Increases Link's movement speed, fall speed, and knockback taken, x1.3, for 5 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown
  • Song of Healing: Heals Link 3%. 3 second cooldown
  • Inverted Song of Time: Decreases Link's movement speed, fall speed, and knockback taken, x0.769, for 5 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown
• Change Final Smash to "Fierce Diety Link": Transforms, then does four swipes each shooting a large projectile. Both the swipes and projectiles are strong. Use control stick to aim and B to attack.

Toon Link (representing Adult Timeline and Toon games):

• Smash attacks use the Four Sword, when charged: up to three additional "shadow clone" Links appear, stacking additional hits and knockback (uncharged Smashes have lower damage and knockback)
• Change Side+B to "Bombs and Boomerangs": A smash input throws a boomerang, but a tilt input draws a bomb.
• New Down+B Wind Waker: casts a stationary Tornado a short distance in front of Toon Link. Can't be used midair. Using your own tornado doesn't deal self-damage.
• Holding UP while in midair would allow a slow, controllable descent by gliding with Minish Cap, Ezlo (like G&W's parachute).
• Change Final Smash to "King of Red Lions", summoning the ship on a wave that washes across the screen. The hurtbox is on the bow of the ship. Link rides along the ship from its mast.

Sheik (representing Hyrule Warriors):

• Change Down+Air to the X-shaped kunai slash she used to end her combos in Hyrule Warriors. This can meteor.
• Up+B: Combine Bouncing Fish with Vanish. If B is held down at any point during the Bouncing Fish, Sheik will begin her Vanish.
• Change Down+B to "Harp": She plays a couple notes, and for a short period of time, a small electrical field (recall Mewtwo's Shadow Ball charging in Melee) appears around Sheik and any of her needles that are currently out. Knockback is very low, but the hitbox is continuous.
  • Needles would function for area denial, including ledge guarding. The needles would be used up once the field ends.
  • The field around Sheik can extend her combos for a little bit more damage while rushing down opponents, or for a slight "get off me" tool.
• Change Final Smash, for the last hit, Impa would appear, and do a special move:
  • If activated on the ground, her Naginata Attack
  • If activated in the air, her Giant Blade Attack
• Cosmetic change: put kunai in her hands for her Dash attack and Up Smash

Sonic:

• Change Dash Attack to Slide, after which he can hop or continue forward without losing much speed
• Change Up Tilt to Up Draft, which can juggle
• Change Neutral Air to Eagle/Axe Kick, which can spike opponents if a sweetspot at the heel connects
• Change Forward Air to Sonic Ballet, a bursting mid-air dash attack which brings Sonic up to near-top speed.
• Change Up Air to Insta-Shield, a spin attack that gains a little bit of height, and can deflect projectiles for a very brief moment at the start of the attack
• Change Side+B to Sonic Drive:
  • The first use of the move throws a ring, which lingers on the ground for a short while
  • Subsequent use(s) perform a short Light Speed Dash in the direction of the ring, for a set distance/time (i.e. if he's too far away, it doesn't take him the whole way.
  • The ring doesn't have a hitbox. As for the Dash, compare Fox Illusion for damage and properties.
  • This move transcends any momentum Sonic has except for knockback
• Alter Down+B when used in midair:
  • If pressed, it becomes Bound/Bounce Attack
  • If held, it becomes Drop Dash (functionally the same as it currently is)

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 28th 2020 at 11:31:34 AM

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

x4 How trustworthy is this guy? I already know about the ballot being planned to have Bayonetta win (plus K.Rool's Mii costume is a dead ringer for his Ultimate look), but I don't know anything about this guy talking about his "informal source."

I've interacted with him a couple of times on the internet. He's a nice dude and I don't think he'd just make shit up, but I also don't know him well enough to say for sure.

I cannot see Paper Mario as an echo of Mario. Their shape, proportions, weight, and abilities are all radically different.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

No time to watch the vid, but from that description it just sounds like the equivalent of going "Oh, yeah, of course my sources knew about that! They just forgot to tell me until now, you can trust me."

Doesn't seem like there's much other point in making those 'reveals' now after K Rool has been confirmed.

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And off the top of my head, no Belmonts wouldn't count as Wolverine Publicity. Especially since IIRC it involves shoehorning said easily recognizable character into plots/works they don't really have a reason to be in besides earning those dollars.

Edited by BlitzTrain on Aug 12th 2018 at 8:36:44 AM

I mean, K.Rool (and Geno) suddenly getting a Mii costum with a redesign is suspicious.

Not to mention the validity of the ballot has been called into question, and K.Rool is absolutely in because of his fanbase, not because Nintendo's doing anything with him.

K. Rool's Mii costume was based directly on his original design. His Smash Ultimate design incorporates several elements of his original design and more recent designs. The tail, metal plated belly, and scale texture are from the original, while the smaller crown, jewel on the front of the cape, and claws are from the newer design.

I really wouldn't call the costume a "dead ringer".

But yeah it seems obvious to me K. Rool was included by popular demand, considering he hasn't been a prominent character in his own series for years, yet isn't really a "retro" character since the series is still alive.

I don't believe that video's source is necessarily legitimate, but I always did believe that the ballot was primarily to gauge interest for Ultimate, rather than influence 4's DLC, and Bayonetta being the final character in development and the top-voted "realizable" character is just coincidence.

They never actually did say the ballot winner would get into Smash 4, they just pointed out in Bayonetta's reveal that she did exceptionally well in the ballot.

Whether or not they cheated us or misrepresented the ballot is all kinda irrelevant now that Ultimate is happening anyway, though. In many ways I feel like Ultimate is the game Sakurai has wanted to make for a long time, and Smash 4 was basically just a stepping stone toward developing it.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Aug 12th 2018 at 11:43:21 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

Would Rathalos count? Because from what I've heard, he's also been in Final Fantasy XIV for some reason.

It's been 3000 years…

Compare the Mii costume with K.Rool's look in Ultimate. The only change is that the cape is tattered and the crown is small like in his Paon design.

Rathalos is more of a case of Mascot Mook

Uni cat

Characters I want to see:

Mona: Warioware's got a ton of fun characters I want to show up more, but Mona's probably got the biggest repertoire of move references to draw from since she changes jobs every game. I just want to run people over with a scooter and then whip them Indiana jones style. Gold just got released so she's certain. 100% chance of her making it in.

Blaze the Cat: Sonic Rush is still the best one. Don't @ me. Probably not gonna make it in, since people seem to want Shadow more, but seeing her in motion in Smash would be a thing of beauty. Obviously the best SEGA pick. 90% chance.

Shantae: Shantae has major history with Nintendo. I mean come on! She debuted on the GBC! Turning into a elephant for smash attacks would just be fun as hell and everyone needs to witness it. Chances of inclusion are pretty high, I think, given her shoveling counterpart being included as a AT shows Nintendo knows what's up. 70% chance.

Kilik: It's time for Soul Calibur to repay the favor they owe Nintendo after they lent Link out. Nightmare, Ivy, Mitsurugi and Sophitia might be closer to faces for the franchise... But dammit we need less swords. Another Namco rep is likely but no guarantee it's gonna be him. 50% chance.

Black Shadow: Contrary to popular consensus, I don't think Black Shadow should be in the game just to have Ganondorf's old moveset dumped on him. He's a cliche comic book villain so he'd just fit right in to the franchise. And he has weird magic powers that are never explained it's great. Him or Deathborn would be cool picks to round out the baddies but it's been awhile since F-Zero was relevant. 20% chance.

Bayonetta: Bayonetta's probably my favorite video game protagonist of all time. I want her as a Guest Fighter in everything if I'm being honest. But let's be real here, there's no way that Nintendo would ever have their attention caught by a M-rated 360 game with middling sales made by ex-capcom devs. And even if they did? There's no way they'd allow a character who wields guns and strips down to unleash powerful moves to appear in Smash Bros, their own little celebration of what makes Nintendo Nintendo. No way we'll ever see her. 0% chance.

took me a bit to realize you were bein silly

"Have a good day. Have a good week. Have a good month. Have a good year. Have a good life." ~Civia

Monster Hunter World and Final Fantasy XIV are having a crossover event, yeah. Behemoth is a monster in MHW now too.

I think we'd need more context on Rathalos' presence in Ultimate to judge. But it's also been a while since I actually read up on that trope, so I should probably brush up. -shrug-

Edited by BlitzTrain on Aug 12th 2018 at 8:59:31 AM

... And the lack of claws, and the groove on the stomach plate. And again the Mii costume was not a new design for K. Rool, it was based directly on his SNES design. You are making a big deal out of the fact that two K. Rool designs are based on the original K. Rool design.

Anom: It occurs to me that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is SSBU. Suddenly the idea that this is the game they were making for Wii U when the decision was made to co-release with a 3DS version sounds a lot more likely.

x4 To be fair, those where really all my thoughts at one point or another.

With Shovel Knight being an assist trophy, I can't help but wonder what's Shantae chances are.

Well, I'd personally say that there's two schools of thought on it: either "AT is the best a Indie character can aspire to" or "AT is the best Shovel Knight can aspire to".

Don't forget, after all, for all of SK's popularity, he's technically only had one game to his name.

He's been in/will be in like a dozen of them by the time Ultimate is released.

Rivals of Aether, Indie Pogo, Blade Strangers, Indivisible...

Boy that guy gets around!

Edited by ShirowShirow on Aug 12th 2018 at 12:34:35 PM

Last I checked Shovel Knight was in the running to be in literally every game in existence.

I had a moment of horrible, horrible meme backlash because I was going to make the "Even Battletoads?" joke but then I realized they are finally making a new Battletoads AND the Battletoads actually cameod in Shovel Knight so Shovel Knight may actually appear in Battletoads despite the very idea of Battletoads being in anything used to be fodder for stupid sillies.

What kind of world are we living in this timeline is so goofy.

PS: Battletoads for Smash.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Aug 12th 2018 at 12:38:27 PM

Hey, Battletoads debuted on Nintendo. It's practically a staple of 'Nintendo hard' games after all...

Personally I'm taking the fact Shovel Knight even got in as an AT at all as a sign that Indies are potentially viable, at least in the future. So I'm gonna stick to "hopeful longshot" for Shantae (or Quote) in Ultimate.

Edited by BlitzTrain on Aug 12th 2018 at 10:00:31 AM

I wouldn't exactly say Battle Toads are out of place either.