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Headscratchers / Tales of Graces

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Why does Richard order the execution of Cerdic's soldiers?
  • Okay, I know he was possessed by Lambda but both of them are actually pretty peaceful beings at heart, albeit with Dark And Troubled Pasts. So, was it just that Lambda had done his Neutral Heel Turn before then, prompting Richard to become more ruthless or was there something else at work?
    • As far as I understand it, Lambda's possession brings out Richard's negative emotions. He hated Cerdic and the soldiers, but under normal conditions, he could control his hatred. Lambda isn't all that peaceful either. Not after centuries of hiding from humans and Sophie.
    • Lambda is essentially a voice whispering in Richard's ear that cultivates Richard's feelings of loneliness and mistrust. It gets to the point where Richard isn't even sure which thoughts are his and which belong to Lambda.

When Asbel is trying to sacrifice his life, why did Cheria...
  • Already break down to tears? I mean, wasn't she supposed to cry after not before he has sacrificed his life? It's really very not logical for anyone to do that if you ask me, everyone except herself stands up and says Asbel's name but she is the only one that cries when Asbel is dying, seriously on that scene i keep thinking "...He's still alive you know...", so yeah...?
    • Probably because he was dying and there was nothing she could do to stop it.
    • Yeah, she doesn't do anything to stop it and just cries. Perfectly logical if you ask me. Then again Cheria isn't exactly a character with a gut in the first place.
      • Did you read the part where they said there was nothing she could do to stop it? It sounds to me like she was crying that he was dying and she was crying because She felt utterly useless. Heck, I know people who woud cry if something like that happened!
      • But what bothers me is that she didn't even bother to stop or do anything about it, i saw many similar situation but this is the first time i see someone just give up and scream like that, even most weak willed heroines like Yanagi from Flame of Recca can spare some time to tries to stop Recca. So i guess...Cheria is just really that desperate,huh?
      • Come now, aren't you just hating on Cheria? Sure, the crying is a bit overly dramatic but would you really have preferred it if everyone just stood there and went "No!"? I mean, no one else did anything either. And even if we ignore that fact, what could she possibly do? She can't throw a knife at it or zap it or whatever. She could try to pull Asbel away but he is stronger than her and would be actively resisting.
      • Not to mention the fact that it's quite jarring. Not only will it possibly undo all the hard work they had just done, she knows exactly what will happen if Asbel gets possessed. Don't forget, THEY'RE AT THE CORE. They're also all exhausted from fighting the final boss. No one is capable of stopping Lambda doing what he wanted to do in the first place and destroying Asbel's body.
      • Since when do people act logically, rather than emotionally? This whole headscratcher is a headscratcher, because people tend not to be creatures of logic, especially when it comes to a loved one dying. Seems rather cold. Did a Robot write this headscratcher?

So what the hell is that giant ring around Ephinea and why doesn't anyone ever bring it up?
  • I realize this series has a big problem of not explaining things that clearly demand some.
    • That's the Foselos, and people use it to navigate. Judging by how the Aquasphere is bending toward it in the scene when you first go to Fodra, it's also what maintains the Aquasphere around Ephinea,

How come no one found Sophie before?
  • I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. When Sophie finally remembers who she is, she explains that she remained on that meadow on Lhant Hill for years on end to recover from a fight with Lambda due to the meadow gathering different types of eleth. Sooo she was there doozing off and NO ONE stumbled across the pre-teen girl sleeping in the middle of the flowers before Asbel? Nevermind that by Sophie's story, we're led to believe she was on that meadow for generations upon generations!
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  • Well, remember that Sophie is an energy/light based being. Because of this, she could be there for an unknown amount of time and not be visible. Maybe she only becomes visible (or corporeal for that matter) when she is close to full recovery?

How come the playable heroes' powers in these games are so far apart from each other?
  • I'll explain myself: very often there are Physical Gods prancing around with Badass Normals. Or even The Load, if they are NPC guys who don't battle. And don't get me started on power levels varying from game to game. Is it so difficult to balance characters storyline-wise?
  • Sophie could beat the Rockgagon by herself if she truly wanted. Yet there are three more people in the party, up to a total of seven. It bugs me when one character is so much better than the others, yes.
  • As always, the Power Creep, Power Seep tendencies of Tales characters bug me. Having come from the Disgaea page and the Game FAQS forums, and noticing the power discrepancies between the playable casts, I wonder if we could set another list that sets the heroes from Physical God to Badass Normal. Of course, this will have enormous, brutal spoilers. Feel free to discuss:
    • End game Reid (Eternia): Takes down a god using the power of yet another god. The guy is untouchable in a one-on-one fight, thanks to the Aurora Wall & Sword. Even if Cless counters Reid's mystic artes with his own ones in the arena, that's because he can't fully use the Aurora in-game, and we are talking about 'the canonically strongest'. So no one is above him. But...
    • End game Emil (Symphonia 2): Yeah, don't kill me just yet. His game may not be a mothership title, but he's so important to the Symphonia timeline that he HAS to be featured in this list. I mean, not only is he a Summon Spirit, the beings that rule their planet, he's THE Summon Spirit: the Kharlan Tree's guardian, Ratatosk. Tasked with guarding the world from the demonic race. Tenebrae said 'It would take a formidable foe to strike you down'... so you need help from either demons (Richter) or gods (Reid) if one were to try.
    • the Eternal Swordmen (Phantasia, Symphonia): Lloyd or Cless. Cless or Lloyd. Both have had the Eternal Sword, and both can't use it at the same time. But Lloyd ranks higher, if only for the fact that after being stripped from the Timey Spacey blade, he still has his super duper Exphere. He used the sword to reunite two worlds, and Cless used it to tie Dhaos down to a particular time period. Either way, this sword's owner is frigging powerful.
    • Luke (Abyss): Two words: Solo Hyperresonance. A power that can build and destroy matter at the atomic level. Fully mastering it, nothing sort of a physical god or time-jumping shenanigans could approach the redheaded replica and not be blown to tiny atoms. Tough luck.
    • End game Asbel (Graces): A competent swordman in his own right, that can strike with both physical and magical force (regular and Cryas artes) but also houses a being that makes you crazy, able to make and control monsters and turns you nigh invulnerable, as shown in Richard's case. In Asbel's case, let's say that Lambda does not want his new friend to suffer, less let him die. So no, anything less than another Eldritch Abomination is not going to take those two down.
    • Luca (Innocence): The reincarnation of a supernatural being, even if he has lost his memories and most of his powers, he still is a strong, if not the strongest magical sword user in this list. Everyone else gets their powers from outside sources (Rebirth's Force, Destinys's Swordians, etc.)
    • Stahn w/ Swordian (Destiny): Even if the spiky haired dude is laid back and just wants an adventure, his Vitriolic Best Buds relationship with Dymlos makes him a very powerful magical fencer. If he can't approach an enemy, then Dymlos blasts it with spells. It was a toss up between him and Veigue for this place, but Stahn wins because he has Blast Caliburs and the bearer of the Force of Ice does not. And, you know, fire beats ice.
    • Veigue (Rebirth): Mostly everything said about Stahn can also be said about the more serious Veigue. His powers are icy instead of fiery, and needs another warrior to pull off a Mystic Arte equivalent. This puts him one rank below. Also, shut up about Clare already.
    • Early game Lloyd: If Cless is the current Eternal Swordman then Lloyd places just this high. And only because of his Angelus Exphere.
    • Early game Asbel: He has regular and elemental skills, which puts him above Yuri but just short of Lloyd's level. His Exphere is just cheap...
    • Yuri (Vesperia): We are finally at the Badass Normal point. A very competent and strong swordman, Yuri needs a checklist of Badass tropes, as we all know. But outside of his own game's Overlimit system, nothing is particularly outstanding about him. Yeah, it's a shame.
    • Early game Cless: If Lloyd is the current Eternal Swordman then Cless' place is here. People seem to forget that he has sword AND martial arts...
    • Senel (Legendia): In contrast with his sword wielding mates, Senel doesn't need no stinking weapons to lay the hurt on his enemies. But his offense is limited, lacks a special talent or a Mystic arte, and everyone else is stronger with weapons. Also, Yuri is badass.
    • Kyle (Destiny 2): Poor boy. Stahn's kid has the worst end of the stick. He has no special awesome skills, no godly powers, no friendly monsters, no magical talking weapons, no nothing. And to boot, Judas usually has to babysit him. The most normal of the Badass Normal. He did invent Azure Edge, though
    • Stahn w/o Swordian: Wow, his own kid has placed above him... when he hadn't any magical weapons. Kyle's strength is only his own, at least. And Stahn is a lazy ass, but not as much as...
    • Early game Reid: Dude, talk about extremes. At least Stahn had a knack for going outside and looking for adventure, but Reid only wanted to hunt, eat, sleep and live like that until he died of old age. Luckily a certain purple-haired, dark-skinned girl came to him and awakened him to adventure and to his true potential.
      • Out of curiosity, where do we think Jude, Milla and Ludger would place on this list? (I have some theories, but I haven't actually played either Xillia yet, so I'd just be going off what I've heard and/or watched on Youtube)
      • Jude would be about Yuri's level in early game.
  • So, in the end, who's the winner in this hypothetical Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny? The answer is just above...

Why does Asbel's father tell him that Sophie is dead?
  • He would have heard from the others that she had been with them, but how could he come to the conclusion that she was dead when they Never Found the Body and everyone was unconcious at the end? In fact, given that Lambda merged with Richard and Sophie's particle distribution healed the others, there would've been little to no evidence of the fight left at all, and Sophie is just missing. Calling her dead is baseless speculation at best, Blatant Lies at worst. Is Aston really just being that much of a jerk?
    • He probably thinks it's the likely outcome and maybe the monster devoured her or something. That or he tried to use it to curb Asbel's adventurous tendencies. So yes, he's kind of a jerk.
    • We never saw Hubert or Cheria after the animation started, maybe one of them was starting to wake up by the end and could tell everyone they saw her get skewered then somehow explode. With the state all the kids were in and no sign of her to be found it'd be reasonable enough for the adults to think they were describing her dying in some form of suicide attack.

When does Malik betray the party?
  • According to Malik's slot on the Graces character page, he betrays the party at one point. Outside of having to fight him because he's under orders from King Cedric to protect Fort Wallbridge and doesn't really have much choice, when does he ever do anything resembling betraying the party?
    • Considering the entry says he is not welcomed back by Hubert and Lambda, that implies it must have taken place in Lineage and Legacies. But there isn't any storyline where he betrays the party during that time.

Why does the party, especially Asbel, not care of Malik's betrayal as a Knight?
The Windor Knights were supposed to protect the King. Instead, they betrayed him and murdered him in a coup with Cedric to usurp the throne. Then they tried to murder the Crown Prince. Yet no one minds too much that a participant in regicide is with them, or that his concept of loyalty is untrustworthy. And Asbel still holds high regard for Malik even though he not only committed terrible crimes but helped kill his friend's father and tried to kill his friend as well.
  • It's not even so much that he's forgiven (since eveyone seems to be easily forgiven in this game), but that it's never even discussed. You'd think someone would want to talk about this.
  • IIRC Cedric poisoned the King and Richard and told everyone they were dead, in which case the knights weren't necessarily complicit in the murder or even aware it was an assassination. The fact they'd support Cedric once it's clear Richard is alive does seem odd, unless their vows are oddly specific and bound to the current owner of the throne rather than the bloodline.

Why is Victoria still at the Knight Acadamy after Richard becomes King?
She's a Knight who threw her league in with Cedric. Richard declared that all Knights who betrayed him and his father would be stripped of their titles and banished from Windor. Yet Victoria is still fine and dandy at the Knight Acadamy.
  • I think when you talk to her, it's implied that she's been Reassigned to Antarctica. Though she never actually appears to go anyway, this could be because Richard only spends a short time actually ruling, while Dalen has bigger concerns (like the valkines cryas being drained).

How is Strahta's President less popular than Fendel's Chancellor?
In Lineage and Legacies, during a skit, Hubert notes that Richard has become more popular than Strahta's President, while Malik says that Richard's popularity rivals that of the Fendel Chancellor. Now, this is a President who's seen going among his people to interact with them on an equal level, and who every NPC seems to praise. Meanwhile, Fendel's Chancellor is a known dictator, whose only big scene features him being a reckless twit, before getting owned by Poisson. We also hear about a rebellion against him in the past (including his own daughter!) and the flames of revolution are still strong in Lineage and Legacies, via a sidequest. So how does he manage to be more popular than the Strahtan President? Was that just an oversight by the writers, or am I missing something?
  • I assume referring to their popularity they meant in those leaders' respective countries; it's still strange how he isn't more popular than Eigen in Fendel, though.
  • It probably helped Fendel's popularity when a steam based heating system was introduce to the entire country under his sponsorship, thereby relieving the people's suffering considerably. That one act could have changed him from evil dictator to benevolent ruler overnight.

How do the knights know Bryce tried to assassinate Richard?
  • After Bryce's boss battle, the falling off the cliff, and subsequent climbing of said cliff, the knights find Asbel and the others and inform them that Bryce has already been arrested. Wait, what? Bryce tried to kill Richard with no witnesses anywhere besides the kids, who subsequently fell over a cliff and spent several hours unconscious until the knights found them. It's very explicit that there was no witnesses to the events, as Aston mentioned search parties for Richard were looking in the wrong places for several hours, something that wouldn't have happened if someone had seen Bryce try to kill Richard and where Richard had gone. They would have no reason to suspect Bryce of anything until after the kids were found, which by then Bryce would either would have woken up and gone after Richard again or had gotten the hell out of dodge before they could have arrested him.
  • Presumably, Bryce had been unconscious for a while; Aston mentions going with Richard himself to the capital because Bryce can't be left unguarded. I'm not sure how they would have found out, but I can make a guess based on his later mental state: he was so ashamed of losing to a pair of children that he felt it didn't matter any more, and told them himself.

What happens after Asbel dies of old age? *L&L spoilers*
  • Say Asbel lives to a ripe old age with Lambda still living inside him, presumably he wouldn't die just because Asbel had. Would he have to find a new host? Could he live on his own without one, especially now he's absorbed part of Fodra? What if he's not ready to wake up by the time Asbel's died?
    • My assumption, was that although they never talk about it, having Lambda inside of him greatly prolongs Asbel's lifespan, it might prevent him from suffering from old age entirely. Whether Asbel is truly immortal because of Lambda is not touched upon - though Sophie's indefinite lifespan is - whatever the reason it's my guess that either Asbel is effectively immortal in which case he'll still have Sophie as a friend to prevent him from being eternally lonely or if he does die then perhaps Lambda simply passes down Asbel's bloodline like some guardian spirit.

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