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  • How did the Singapore Pirates have dry powder on the island where the dead Kraken was. Earlier, the pistols that the main characters had could not shoot because of wet powder. Why is this?
    • The gunpowder already in their pistols was wet. The Singapore pirates probably reloaded from their (watertight) powder horns while the main characters were otherwise occupied.

  • If Davy Jones was able to come onto land by standing in a bucket of water, why didn't Will just do that in order to see Elizabeth after he became captain of the Flying Dutchman?
    • Because he has to spend those ten years sailing the seas of the underworld, ferrying the souls of the dead to their rest. If he comes back to Earth, he's not doing his job, and Elizabeth doesn't look the type to be turned on by Tentacle Porn.
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    • Sandbanks aren't really proper land.
      • Because he'd turn into a sea creature. Remember the only reason Jones did was because he wasn't doing his job. If Will stopped performing his duty to indulge in personal benefits, he'd begin to turn into a sea man.
      • Because Calypso was a no-show. She was pretty much the reason he took the job in the first place, and if she wasn't gonna stick around, why bother?
      • Heh, sea man...
      • The deal was that they both had to play a part. Will/Jones had to ferry souls for 10 years, while Elizabeth/Calypso had to stay faithful for 10 years. Elizabeth did, while Calypso didn't. Jones actually did ferry the souls for the first 10 years.
      • Speaking of which, what kind of arrangement is that? The Dutchman needs a captain, so there will always be one. But if he has a girlfriend, she has to sit on a rock and wait for him for ten years at a time or he'll be justified in ignoring his duties and turning into a monster??
      • It's also a setup to fail. The Dutchman's captain is immortal. Except in one particular case (when the girlfriend is really a goddess that's slumming it), the girlfriend isn't. I figure you only get about four or five iterations before the deal fails because the girlfriend is dead of old age. Then what?
      • "Tell me, Elizabeth Turner, do you fear death?"
      • According to Word of God, there's a bit of dialogue that got left out of At World's End which clarifies that if the girlfriend is faithful, the captain has the option of leaving the ship and becoming a mortal man again. It's only if she lets him down that he's stuck on the ship until somebody else volunteers to take over, and in that case it no longer matters whether she dies of old age.
      • Wow, Calypso looks even worse when you factor in that part. She really has no right being angry at Davy Jones for what he did. She knowingly screwed him over, then has the gall to claim betrayal?
      • Jones was a man in love with an immortal goddess. If she had waited for him, he might well have retained his place as the Dutchman's captain anyway, meeting her every ten years until the end of time.
      • Remember what she says: "It's my nature." The sea is treacherous. Anyway, at the end of those ten years, if the captain got to become mortal again, I imagine Will probably passed the captaincy to his father, which would have worked out nicely. Bill had already agreed to stay aboard the Dutchman for eternity, so if that contract was still in effect, he could now stay on it as captain... and as even Jack says, Bill's a good man, he'd no doubt be diligent about his ferrying.
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    • All of these ways Will and Elizabeth could potentially have bent the rules for some nookie ignore one thing: Calypso would probably not appreciate her system being gamed. It says ten years without setting foot on land, but what it means is ten years at sea without seeing the loved one. She's free now and has the ability to come down like a ton of bricks on some nerds bonking in a bathtub.

  • Why on earth does the crew cut out Will's heart? Didn't Davy Jones do this because of how he felt about Calypso? It is in no way implied that this is a requisite to becoming captain of the dutchman, so why did it happen?
    • But wasn't it a requisite? Anyway, that big stab wound in it wasn't doing him any good.
    • I understood it to be a requisite - the heart must be removed, but Davy Jones chose to keep his on an island where he couldn't get at it so that he could divorce himself from his emotions. Or something...
      • But now Elizabeth's hanging on to the chest. So is he still emotionless or what?
      • The place the heart is kept is mostly symbolic. Davy Jones wanted to separate himself from his emotions, so he put it somewhere he could only get once every ten years. Will however, loved Elizabeth, so he let her guard his heart, to symbolize their marriage/love.
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    • We could just blame the crew's ignorance... As long as they knew Jones, they knew him to be without his heart. They assumed there was a need to relinquish the unneeded flesh. Organ. (Organ? * chuckles* ) Muscle. Whatever. Savvy?
      • Listen up, people: The curse that binds the next captain after Jones is not the same as the power that made Jones captain. Jones cursed himself, not to mention his ship and his crew, by cutting his heart out and making himself a supernatural monster. Didn't it occur to anyone that he might also curse anyone who managed to murder him and end his rein of cruelty? Maybe into taking his place and possibly continuing his rein? Call it the Wolfram & Hart gambit.
      • Got it in one. There's a deleted scene where he explains he did just that.
      • He was became cursed when he stopped ferrying souls to the afterlife. He cursed his own heart and whoever killed him after he was cursed and became a sea monster.
      • It's possible that the captain of the dutchman did NOT require his heart to be cut out, that was a Davy Jones thing. However, Will personally needed his heart to be cut out because otherwise he would die. The ship needs a captain, Will needs to live, whatever the hell law governs the heart box allows for Will to live, PROVIDED HIS HEART GOES IN THE BOX.
    • The Heart was a perhaps requisite for heading a ship of the dead. Jones became all Squiddy because, as Calypso stated "He corrupted his purpose and so became himself corrupted." Will on the other hand, stayed normal looking because he did his job right, sacrificed his love for ten years, and gave his heart up so that he could ferry the dead.
      • It's possible Calypso is simply twisting the story she tells a bit to make Jones seem less sympathetic. It's clear that the whole 'separate from emotions' thing is a symbolic gesture. Jones is a raging asshole because he wants to be one, it's how he feels better after Calypso's betrayed him. When he took the job, losing his heart probably didn't matter much because he had taken the job as a favor to the woman he loved. Afterward, there's a certain amount of masochism in it. It's "since I hate everything and am going to spend every waking moment being the most miserly wretch I can possibly be, how awesome is it that I literally have no heart?"
    • There is nothing alluding to the chest being part of the original deal until the third movie, at which point they almost completely and immediately abandoned the concept they'd thrown around for all of Dead Man's Chest, not in a "oh, so that's what happened" manner, but as if the prior explanations had never occurred. It doesn't help matters that suddenly this new story was apparently not much of a secret, seeing how Elizabeth's Father overheard Beckett's crew talking about it, delegating the new story rather neatly to the status the former tale had. And while yes Beckett did have Jones' leash at that point, that's not the kind of thing you'd expect Davy or anyone loyal to him to let slip under any circumstances. It seemed apparent that the story changed between movies.
      • That's debatable, there were some hints in the second movie about the rules of the chest; the most telling of which was Wyvern's (the guy on the Dutchman who became part of the wall and told Will about the key) monologue which gave the implication that the Dutchman must have a Captain and their heart must replace Davy Jones' if he's killed. So while it may have been a bit of a Retcon, it wasn't quite an Ass Pull. As for how everyone knew, there was a deleted scene from AWE that explains it: Beckett already seemed to know (so yes, it seems Davy did tell Beckett the rules of the chest), and Governor Swann moves to stab Jones' heart when Jones tells him that Elizabeth was on the Black Pearl when the Kraken destroyed it. In order to dissuade him, Jones explains to Swann that he would have to become Captain of the Flying Dutchman if the heart was stabbed and Swann backs off.
    • My understanding is that the rules were fairly loose when Jones became Captain of the Dutchman. There weren't any rules in place for a successor to Jones' position when Calypso swore him to it, and so the rules developed around Jones. Thus, Jones cutting his own heart out was not part of the job, but something he did on his own accord. Will, however, had to have his heart cut out because Jones established the precedent. In short, it was less "Here are the established rules for Will to become Captain of the Dutchman" and more "Will has to become Davy Jones 2: Electric Boogaloo".
    • With Will unconscious and unable to say he's claiming the Flying Dutchman for himself, replacing Jones's heart with his was the only sure way to make certain the captaincy devolved to him, not Jack. It was Jack's muscle-power that drove the blade into Jones's heart, after all, even if he used Will's hand as a tool with which to grip the hilt; until Bootstrap Bill re-enacted Jones's heart-extraction ritual, either one of them had a valid claim to be the new captain.
    • This is explained in a deleted scene: Jones cursed his heart after cutting it out that his slayer must do the same with his own heart. Because stabbing the heart is the only way to kill Jones, his killer must also replace him. So the heart thing is a side effect of being called to be Captain of the Flying Dutchman

  • What keeps Will and Elizabeth from meeting at sea? They're both captains of their own ships, after all; and you'd think, given the way the supernatural works in the films, the Pirate King would have some reason to um, "consult" with the captain of the Dutchman. Was he not allowed to leave the ship, period, or allow the living to board, even temporarily? Or did the writers just really want to screw them over?
    • I'm pretty sure Will is trying to do the job correctly, which means he's actually going to have to ferry the souls of the dead. I'm not sure if Elizabeth would be able to reach the Underworld again (at least, not without the whole dying thing).
    • For that matter, wouldn't it make sense for Elizabeth to just go get herself killed at sea? Then it would be pretty much "Do you fear death, Elizabeth Turner?" "Heck yes. Now let's make out."
      • Of course, Elizabeth isn't all that suicidal, and by the time she could think of this tactic, she's pregnant. Which would put a damper on any plans to get herself killed at sea to be with Will- would YOU orphan your own child that way?
      • It's implied that Davy Jones isn't supposed to do the whole "Do you fear death?" thing. That's how he got cursed with looking like Cthulhu, he wasn't ferrying the souls of the dead, he was just using fear to build an army navy (we don't do that "water thing") of undead sailors.
      • Actually, it's never implied that Davy Jones isn't supposed to be doing this, this is a legitimate way for him to get crew members. The reason he looks like Cthulhu is because he isn't guiding the souls of the dead who are killed at sea. I had the exact same reaction as the above troper.
      • The phrasing of "Do you fear death" makes me think that it may have even started with some of the souls wanting to join the crew rather than pass on immediately. It serves two purposes: the Dutchman has a crew, and those who genuinely fear death can make an easier transition. The problem, IMO, wasn't that Jones was recruiting a crew, it was that he was completely ignoring all the souls that didn't join him, while keeping his crew bound to him long after they were ready to pass on.
      • That is exactly the point. Ferrying souls means no crew, EVERYONE goes on to the locker. Calypso never said he'd have a crew, just a ship. Those fish-men were also killed at sea, duh! (NVM that half the time, Jones was the one killing them.)
      • So, he's supposed to sail the entire ship by himself? What about the fact that Will keeps his dad on the crew in the end? He's committed to doing the job right.
      • Actually, the above above poster unwittingly hit the nail on the head : the problem isn't that Davy gets his crew by sidetracking dead sailors on their way to the Locker, but that he actively kills people at sea just so that he can do his "Do you fear death" schtick and get more sailors.
      • No, the problem is that he ISN'T DOING HIS JOB. Ok, the dead sailors aren't exactly helping that, but it's not the main issue. Also, he's not killing sailors/kidnapping dead sailors so that they can join his crew, as some tropers seem to think, but he's killing sailors OR letting them join his crew, weren't you paying attention? After Davy accepts Will into his crew, he gets asked about the other survivors, to which he says that there were none, signaling to the crew to KILL THE SAILORS. You can't kill something that's already dead!
      • Much as the US Military hates it, the truth is an "army", used generically, can mean simply "a large group of soldiers". Contrariwise, "navy" specifically means "a large group of ships", which is clearly not the case. You can say with great accuracy that Davy Jones is building an "army of sailors" or even an "army of marines", but it would be even more accurate, not to mention more succinct, to just say he is building a "crew".
      • Back to the point, Will had to do the job or turn into a monster like Jones. Elizabeth is alive and can't go/survive where the Dutchman and it's crew can, so them docking someplace safe so she could be aboard during the ten year work-week would take Will away from his mission. He did the job right, and combined with the fact that Elizabeth waited faithfully for him to return, they broke the curse and she got him back for good. Doing anything risky or crazy (like Elizabeth killing herself just to see him or expecting some kind on on-board vacation) would've screwed them out of their happy ending.
      • Also, Will was only going to be helming the Dutchman for 10 years. Sure, Elizabeth could kill herself and they have ten years at sea together, but what happens after that? She moves on to the afterlife, and he goes back to being mortal. Waiting ten years meant they had the whole rest of their lives after that to be together.
      • About that. Will captains the Dutchman for ten years, leaves... and then what? The Dutchman must have a captain.
      • Maybe Will's dad becomes the captain?
      • Where is this "Will is captain for ten years and then is mortal again" idea coming from? As I understand it, he's bound by the same "ten years at sea, one day on land, repeat" as Jones was, not "ten years at sea, the rest of your mortal existence wherever you want." Having his heart in the chest is the only thing keeping him alive, if the Captain of the Flying Dutchman can really be considered alive, anyway.
      • Word of God says that the only reason Davy Jones was bound to the ship forever is that Calypso didn't stay faithful to him and meet him on their one day. Since Elizabeth did, Will's free after the ten years.
      • What was your source? The conversation between Jones and Calypso in the Pearl's brig reveals that Jones did his job properly for ten years. When he returned for his day with Calypso, she did not show up. From there it would appear that Jones discontinued ferrying souls out of anger. The failure to continue his job properly led to Jones' and his crew's evolution into sea creatures. Nowhere is it implied that the job lasts only ten years; it goes on until the captain can no longer serve (until his heart is destroyed). At that point, a new captain takes over, going through the same heart-carving ritual. Once Will took over, the crew became human again, since a new captain resets the curse. He will ferry souls for ten years, come on land for a day, and repeat as long as his heart stays beating. Will was never freed from his duty, nor is it even possible, since he would have to become a mortal without a heart, which biologically just does not work.
      • Word of God is that if the woman remains faithful, the captain has the option of returning to land and becoming mortal again. Calypso didn't wait for him, so Jones became cursed forever.
      • So Will elects a successor. Just because HE got the job as a method of not dying, doesn't mean that once he's gone the ship can't function like any other ship to do, that is, when the captain wants to leave, the first mate takes over, or something.
      • Maybe it was that the "Only one day on land" clause is broken by faithful love. Now, Will can come to and fro the Dutchman as he pleases, visiting his son and Elizabeth when he's not ferrying the dead.
      • Perhaps it was a two-part clause, the captain (Will) cannot set foot on land, his love (Liz) cannot set foot on the sea. It actually helps to explain why Calypso wasn't at the predetermined place when Jones went to see her, as she's a sea goddess and would thus ignore her part in the clause.
      • What about the end of their last scene? Will leaves her his heart, she nearly kisses him, then runs up and does kiss him as he's walking away. Then she's standing on the beach, alone, as the ship sails away. Seems like he had to stay on the ship to me.
      • In post-credits scene, while it's not explicitly clear as to the fate of the Dutchman's captain, Elizabeth and her son see a green flash on the horizon as she awaits Will's return. Earlier, we were informed that such a green flash signified a soul coming back from the dead. So... ten years hence + Will sticking to the ferrying souls deal + Elizabeth staying faithful to him + green flash at the end = Will fulfilling the deal and getting to return to the land of the living (and his family)?
      • Which is great, until one considers just how those souls are getting ferried without a captain.
      • They pick a new captain. Problem solved.

  • So Sao Feng, who believes that Elizabeth is a powerful sea goddess, decides to try and rape her. And then he plans on releasing said goddess from her human prison and restore her to full power again. Did anyone else think that plan wasn't well thought out? Hmmmm... maybe this powerful goddess, who you want to release, might be a tad mad that you took advantage of her in human form and now has the entire power of the ocean to use in her revenge scheme against you. I thought Sao Feng was supposed to be a bit more crafty than that.
    • Sao Feng is crafty, but his greediness and lust interrupt with his thought route frequently. Such as selling out the Pearl's crew to Beckett and not once considering that Beckett might simply break his word (as he does in the movie). Presumably the temptation of having a sea goddess "bent to his will" was just too much for him to resist.
    • Did you maybe miss the part where he specifically says he will take her rage if he can't have her love? And seems to be thrilled by the idea? Sao Feng loves the sea beyond everything else, just like Davy Jones did... in fact, if it had been him, he probably would have been equal parts enraged and delighted at Calypso's treachery of standing him up after ten years. He's as willing to endure the sea's wrath as he is its temperance.

  • Chow-Yun Fat being hired to act in a movie and then not giving him a single fight scene - and making him a coward and rapist, to boot. And then he dies from shrapnel!
    • Yeah, but ask him how much fun he had finally playing a villain! He did have a fight scene, he was just in a crowd at the time. Also, he wasn't a coward, don't know where you got that from.
      • Elizabeth calls him on it, remember? And she was right.
      • Okay, this isn't really a head-scratcher, but whatever. Sao Feng's practical and self-interested, just like Jack. Elizabeth called them both cowards for the same reason — neither seemed to care much for loyalty/honor, and both were willing to watch countless people die from a safe distance. And Sao Feng wasn't necessarily a rapist. He just stole a kiss, we never seem him go further than that at any time. Would he if not for being stopped by act of god? Maybe. But it's a big label to slap on someone for a kiss. Hell, Elizabeth stole a kiss from Jack.
      • Don't be naive. He kisses her, she pushes him away (and it looks like she bites him), and he's going for her AGAIN when he gets thumbtacked to the wall with shrapnel. He was definitely going for rapey times.

  • Tia Dalma brought Barbossa back as part of a bid to release her from her human form. All the pirate lords were needed—or rather all 9 pieces of 8 were needed. And Barbossa's was in care of Mister Ragetti, who also ended up being the one to release her. So...why was Barbossa needed?
    • Barbossa was the only one pushing for Tia Dalma's release from human form be it due to their agreement or because it seemed like the only way to turn the tides against Beckett or both. The only other options presented by at the meeting were to hole up in Shipwreck Cove until.... something or to go to war against the EITC. And even though the latter was agreed upon Barbossa still was the one to steal(not him in particular) the pieces of eight at the meeting to ensure he'd be able to carry out his plan. While Mister Ragetti was the one to do the deed they had no way of knowing that until it happened. As for her initially choosing him, 1. the original pieces of eight were long lost and the current piece of eight was virtually unknown so she might not have known where Barbossa's was 2. Ragetti wasn't a pirate lord so him presenting the option to release Tia Dalma would've probably fallen on deaf ears if not simply gotten him shot 3. Barbossa was still a key player in getting them to the meeting and retrieving Jack in the first place so without his assistance they would've probably failed before they began.
    • Who says Ragetti knew that the wooden eye was one of the Nine Pieces of Eight? All we're sure he knew was that Barbossa'd insisted he keep it safe.

  • Why doesn't Davy Jones attack Shipwreck Cove personally? He was able to teleport onto the Pearl where Tia Dalma/Calypso was, and the whole thing is made of shipwrecks. (hence the name) So he could enter as it's not proper land.
    • Because underneath the pile of shipwrecks is an island. Ergo it is land and he cannot enter it.
    • Plus, it is an ability unique to him and his crew. Immortality doesn't make them invincible, and the risk of having to face almost every pirate under the Brethren Court at once, sword to sword, would be unappealing.
    • Besides, Davy Jones would only help to advance Beckett's goals when ordered to. He was held to Beckett's service on pain of death, nothing more. After he visited Tia Dalma and decided to await her release, he had no incentive to attack the Brethren Court until ordered.
      • Corollary: It's quite likely he never told Beckett that he and his crew could teleport between ships. They just don't use that ability in front of the EITC guys, and no-one's the wiser when Davy steps over to the Pearl for an angst session with the ex.

  • "Four of you have tried to kill me in the past. One of you succeeded." I'm assuming that three of the four are Barbossa, Will, and Elizabeth, but who's the fourth? Am I forgetting something obvious or is this something we don't know about?
    • I think Tia Dalma was supposed to be the fourth.
    • I had assumed it was Pintel and Ragetti, but that was because I hadn't counted Will.
    • The "four" are people who have tried to kill Jack but were unsuccessful: Barbossa, Pintel, Ragetti and Will. Elizabeth was the one who tried to kill Jack, and succeeded.
    • Pintel and Ragetti threatened Jack a bit in the first film, but never actually tried to kill him. Tia Dalma was the fourth one who attempted to kill him, and apparently he "enjoyed it at the time".
      • Ragetti and Pintel were part of the crew who mutinied and left Jack for dead on an island. Yeah, they're the other two in the equation.
  • In the later movies. The pirates are defenders of freedom because the East India Company's desire to rule the seas is just wrong. No man deserves to try and control the sea, it's true ... don't you agree, Calypso?
    • Ah, hypocrisy and self-preservation. The noblest of pirate traditions.
      • It's not hypocrisy to realize your mistake and try to fix it. Barbossa lays it out at the meeting, the first brethren court made a mistake in binding Calypso, which led to Cutler Beckett and his ilk.
    • Defenders of their freedom, really. I have no idea where Calypso fits into anything.
      • Calypso is the sea, embodied. Why shouldn't the sea do whatever it damn well pleases with itself?
    • She rules the seas, of course. It's explicitly stated that the first Brethren Court bound her "so men could rule the seas".
      • Also, the EITC are like the Borg and Wal-Mart combined. You will be assimilated, but at the lowest prices!
      • "It's just good business."

  • On a slightly less sarcastic note, at the end, the pirates fight for their freedom against those dastardly English chaps from the East India blah blah etc. For freedom! And democracy! And the right to murder and steal and rape and pillage and generally make a nuisance of themselves. Yes, these are the quintessential Pirates Who Don't Do Anything, but still.
    • Actually, historical pirates did have some of that going on. A lot of the pirate subculture wasn't just about pillage and plunder, but also escaping the social conventions and power structures of the great empires. Pirate ships- independently operated ones, anyways, as opposed to privateers and well-organized corporate pirates (yes, such things existed) often had a democratically elected captain, shared booty and followed compacts ratified by the crew, and sometimes even liberated slaves because the slaves weren't of any value to them.
      • Yep, minorities, people of mixed race, women and escaped slaves often took up piracy. The only way to be judged by the strength of their back instead of by their race/gender/monetary value.
      • The Royal Navy didn't have any racial, religious or national prejudice — anyone was accepted, and at least one black sailor was eventually promoted to Post Captain and commanded a frigate— and, in one case, gender — a topman was discovered to be a black woman, but after only a month, not the eleven years claimed. The Army and Marines were no different, offering slaves their freedom in exchange for service.

  • Why does Tia Dalma state they can't bring Governor Swann back from the dead? Isn't the whole point they're in the Locker to bring Jack back? Why was that okay, but not now? And for that matter, she had no problem bringing Barbossa back earlier? While she does say that Governor Swann is "at peace", it still doesn't make all that much sense since he's right there and they could easily grab him?
    • Why also does she seem to imply that Elizabeth cannot leave the ship or touch the ocean? Didn't we just see them wading out of the ocean when they arrived in the Locker?
      • I think the "SHE CAN'T LEAVE THE SHIP" rule was only valid for the trip back. Which does make a reasonable amount of sense since it seems they arrived and left through two different places (since everyone was surprised by the boats with the dead).
    • I think Jack was a special sort of dead. Governor Swann was regular, I died dead, and Jack was specifically taken by a magical beast, the Kraken, to Davy Jones' Locker which seems to be a specific location and not just the afterlife which presumably Governor Swann is attempting to get to.
    • Tia/Calypso also needed both Jack and Barbossa alive as part of her plan to get free of her human form and have her full powers restored. I would not be surprised at all if she was willing to bring them both back (or help get them back, in Jack's case) for that reason alone, and would not be willing to mess with the boundaries of life and death under ordinary circumstances.
      • On Jack and Barbossa, as it was said, Jack was a special case, he wasn't dead, he was just exiled from our world. On Barbossa you must keep in mind Calypso (somehow) got hold of his body, presumably she would need the governor's body as well. Given that he literally could have died anywhere on the entire goddamn sea and the only people who know of the location of his body are his mortal foes which they have to kill...I wouldn't get my hopes up.
    • And, there's a possibility that Tia thought Gov. Swann deserved his rest, so didn't want to rob him of that chance of an afterlife by trying to snatch him back onto the boat.
      • In fact, she pretty much says this exact thing, as she looks sorrowfully at Elizabeth: "Him at peace." Dragging a soul back from the afterlife probably requires them to not want to go. But while Elizabeth's father probably didn't want to die, he was an old man who'd already lost his wife and seen that his daughter was independent and capable of taking care of herself... he didn't have any extreme drives or bitterness or other things to make him claw for life like Jack or Barbossa did.
      • Moreover, Governor Swann hadn't exactly coped well with the situation when he's encountered unnatural forces; he freaked out worse than pretty much any other character when confronted by one of the undead pirates in the first film, then nearly threw up at the sight of a severed hand in a drawer. To bring him back would have entailed leaving him in debt to the very supernatural powers that terrified him, which would be a lot crueler than simply letting him move to the afterlife.
    • Given Tia's real identity, it's possible she can only resurrect sailors, not landsmen who merely happened to die at sea.

  • Why didn't Cutler Beckett just take the Endeavour and go after Jack and the compass? It's demonstrated that the EITC has incredible naval power, what's keeping them from using it? Since everyone he's recruited has proven less than trustworthy (i.e. Elizabeth threatening him and escaping thereby nullifying Will's reasons for retrieving the compass, Will deciding he'd rather just stab the thing), wouldn't it be a better idea to send Mercer and a crew of ultra-loyal soldiers to fetch the thing?
    • Beckett's probably already tried that, and found Jack to be extremely elusive. So he decided to try sending someone with 'insider access'. It didn't work, but Beckett had other plots to fall back on- he probably always had a dozen schemes going at once.
    • Besides, Jack has a lot of experience evading the Royal Navy and EITC. Sending a fleet after him won't turn him up; you need to be able to out-think him, which is what Beckett appears to have been trying.
    • Being a ship-of-the-line, the Endeavour wasn't meant to sail around chasing down pirates — it had a stupid amount of firepower, but little speed and poor maneuverability. It was repeatedly stated and demonstrated throughout the trilogy that no ship could outrun the Black Pearl; even the Flying Dutchman could only beat her with a headwind. Turning someone Jack trusted to the side of the EITC was much more likely to work.

  • What was with that whole "First to the finish" thing between Barbossa and Jack in AWE?
    • What exactly are you referring to?
      • It's during the sandbar meeting. Right after he slashes the 'piece of eight' off Jack's bandanna, Barbossa snarls, "If you have somethin' to say, I might be sayin' something as well." To which Jack replies, "First to the finish, then?"
      • That's the one. I have no idea what they're talking about. Any ideas?
      • My guess is, they're letting each other know, in code, that each now intends to pursue his own scheme to defeat the armada; Barbossa by freeing Calypso, Jack by trying to stab Jones' heart. "So we'll just see whose idea works better!"
    • Given their earlier speech about things coming to an end it sounds a lot more like a kid friendly version of "See you in hell."

  • In the end Sparrow holds Davy Jones' heart at a blade point, so Jones... stabs Will. What was that supposed to achieve, and how was that supposed to prevent Jack from stabbing the heart? Did he just want to Take Will With Him?
    • Pure sadism and spite on Jones' part was how I always saw the scene.
    • Kinda answered your own question. Yeah, he was trying to take out Will with him. It was also a final 'fuck you' to Jack Sparrow. Though I have a lot of other problems with that scene. Why didn't Davy Jones even try to wrestle the heart from Jack's hand? Jack already had the heart at blade point, so it's not like Davy had anything to lose by that point. Further more, Jack has the fucking heart at blade point. Why didn't he just stab it while he had the chance, and instead gloated like an idiot?
    • It was more than just trying to take Will out with him. Jones was giving Jack a choice: stab the heart, be immortal, watch your friend die because you were selfish. The only way to save Will would be to do what they did: get him to stab the heart instead. To do that, Jack would have to get past Jones, and even if he did, he'd be giving up his only chance at the immortality and freedom he really wanted. Jones just didn't count on a) Bootstrap jumping on his back, and b) Jack deciding Will's life was too valuable.
    • Moreover, it's a call-back to Jones's previous conversation with Jack, about whether or not Jack could live with knowing he'd consigned Will to bondage. At the time, Jack was dismissive of the idea that he'd feel so guilty about such a thing as to make life unbearable, but forcing him to actually watch Will being killed in cold blood — killed, because Jack had told Jones that Will was in love — is Jones's way of calling Jack's bluff about that. It's the inverse of his usual "Do you fear death?" question, recast for would-be immortal Jack as "Do you fear an eternity of living with this guilt?"
    • Jack had to blow his chance, 'cause it was William Turner's destiny to become the Captain of the Flying Dutchman. What can one little pirate do against that?
    • As to why didn't Jack stab the heart right away, and why did Jones try to take it away. Remember, that Jack wasn't eager to become the captain of the FD. I presume he wanted to threaten Jones into submission without having to condemn himself. Jones apparently understood that and therefore didn't attempt to confront Jack directly, but instead resorted to the above-mentioned gambit with Will.

  • The "up is down" scene. I still don't get it. What was the plan? Why did it work?
    • The plan was to turn the ship over. It worked because it seems to be one of those apparently arbitrary metaphysical rules governing going to/from a supernatural place like the underworld.
    • But what actually happened to the ship once it got turned over? It seemed to travel up through a finite volume of water and emerge on its "opposite" surface. Is Earth flat in the POTC-verse, with the underworld on its other side?
    • I simply saw it as more of a symbolic representation of traveling between worlds than anything. In a supernatural sense the underworld may be on the other side, but I doubt it's literally on the other side. Savvy?
    • It's magic, guys. It doesn't need to have a feasible explanation.
      • No, but as for why it was put in the film in the first place, the makers may have drawn inspiration from how mirrors and reflections were historically thought of as important, even magical. Think of all the stories about magic mirrors, for example. At sea, the whole ship can be reflected in the water, and flipping things over at the time of the green flash could flip other things around too, like upside-down to the right way up, and dead to living. Like the post above said, it was symbolic.

  • Why are some of the dead in boats while others are floating in the water?

  • Re-watching At World's End, I might've come up with a solution to a recurring headscratcher: why Elizabeth and Will absolutely cannot meet during the ten years. At the end, the Dutchman disappears in the green flash, presumably back to the land of the dead. I took that to mean that the seas Will must travel are the ones in the Underworld, not the mortal seas of Earth. He can't come back to the land of the living at 'all'' for ten years, or he's not doing his job and he ends up walking Tentacle Porn like Jones did.
    • I thought that he was allowed to come to the mortal seas, but only to pick up the dead. So unless Elizabeth starts sailing the seven seas killing everyone she meets just to see her husband, it's for one day every ten years.

  • Davy Jones can only set foot on land every 10 years. Calypso is a sea goddess. So why could they only see each other when Davy Jones was able to come on land?
    • She was trapped as a human.
    • That was after. Davy Jones trapped her as a human because she wasn't there to boink him when his ten years of blueballs was up.
    • Probably, it was because properly doing his job as ferryman of the dead wouldn't leave him enough free time, while his day on shore is also his general "day off".
    • Or perhaps Calypso is a goddess of the seas of this world, not the seas beyond World's End. Jones's duties would have kept him in the afterlife's seas, hauling souls to their appointed "shores" there.

  • Why didn't Davey Jones just sink the Flying Dutchman to gain possession of the heart?? By bringing the heart on board, Beckett commits a fatal error equivalent to dangling a mouse on a string in front of a cat (or taunting an Evil Overlord with his small, easily disposable Artifact of Doom). It really weakens Davy Jones' character that he didn't think to do this, choosing to let himself be humiliated in public instead.
    • Maybe Davy knew Beckett was smart and may have told his soldiers "If Davy Jones tries anything like sink his ship so that he gets away while we flounder helplessly in the ocean, shoot/stab the heart."
    • More than that, it was never just Mooks guarding the heart until the climax- Norrington and/or Mercer were always on hand, and both of them are smart enough to figure out what's happening if the ship starts to go down, and to take the necessary precautions. After both of them are out of the picture, though (and Jones has recaptured the key) the first thing he does is go for the heart (though he probably can't sink the Dutchman in the middle of the battle).

  • What would've happened if the heart had actually been in the Jar of dirt, and destroyed by the fall? What happens if it somehow got destroyed by accident, without human agency?
    • Jack would have been the one to drop it, so he would become the new captain of The Flying Dutchman.

  • When Jack finally gets the heart in the third film why does he attract Jones's attention rather than stabbing it right away? (Note at this point the Kraken is dead so there is no longer a reason to keep Jones alive.) Jones only has time to kill Will because of Jack's grandstanding. The fridge stupidity is just annoying, although I guess it is appropriate that Jack is deprived of his chance at immortality by his own showing off.
    • He wasn't sure he wanted the immortality at the time.
      • This. As noted below he probably decided to try and force Jones to back off without condemning himself to the captainship of the Dutchman.
      • Also, as you said, grandstanding. Jack spent god knows how long terrified of death, only to be sent to kinda-hell by Jones. He was savoring the moment. Cruel may be a matter of perspective, but even the devil thinks Jack's a butt-munch.

  • Remember the pirate that Sparrow Sr. shot at the Pirate Council? Watch the scene closely (or watch the screenshot here). The guy was shot through the right shoulder! It should've been a grazing wound at worst, yet he drops on the spot, apparently dead. Ok, if you wave your hands especially hard, you could say the bullets were poisoned, but what was the point in shooting (no pun intended) the scene like this? Why not make the shot go in the heart?
    • You haven't looked at Only a Flesh Wound lately, have you? Read those pages, particularly the bits where they explain that "just a shoulder wound" is not some easily survivable, painless process. Especially with that period of firearms. In fact, if you were hit at all, your best bet was to have some medic saw the affected limb off with no anesthetic and put tar on the resulting stump.

      I'll quote the relevant passage:
    Bullet wounds to the shoulder will almost invariably either kill the victim from blood loss or cripple them for life. There are huge blood vessels in a human being's shoulder as well as lots of very delicate nerves and a very complex ball-and-socket joint that no surgeon on Earth can put back together once it's smashed by a bullet.
    • A shoulder wound, while a serious and almost certainly life threatening wound, is unlikely to be instantly fatal (as seen in this scene). That being said, the shock can cause somebody to pass out quite easily.
    • The pirate was hit in the chest/lung area, not the shoulder. Also, we don't know what angle the round struck him from. It's possible it penetrated into his body and went through his heart, which would be instantly fatal.
      • Honestly, it doesn't matter if it's instantly fatal. Getting shot in any part of the body with a firearm of that period is going to cause enough damage/pain to at the very least make you fall over in shock. All that's required for the joke to work is: Gunshot —> Dude falling over.
      • Plus that dude dies in every movie he's in, anyway. He's got a higher death-per-appearance ratio than Sean Bean.
    • If you'd just been shot by Jack Sparrow's dad for merely translating someone else's views about "Hang the Code!", and you didn't die on the spot, would you want the Keeper of the Code to know he might require a second pistol to finish you? Could be that Askay had the good sense to play dead and could think really, really fast.
    • In addition to what's been said above, watch where Teague is shooting from compared to where the speaker is standing. While the bullet may have gone in through his shoulder, it was headed towards his spine. Any number of harder things could have deflected it into an even more vital organ.

  • In the third movie: When the pirates plan to free Calypso from her "human bonds", they lead her unto the deck all tied up in rope. If they are going to free her anyway, why the ropes? As long as she is in her human form, she's not dangerous (she has no intention to stop them anyway) and once she gets her divine powers back, the ropes are pointless.
    • They were probably just trying to be Crazy-Prepared. Didn't help at all in this situation, though, as mentioned above- ropes weren't made with angry goddesses in mind.
    • Even when she's human, she's still a voodoo sorceress. Keeping her tied up stops her from escaping prematurely via magic, thus guaranteeing that she'll owe them for voluntarily setting her free.

  • What happens if you die in the world of the dead? Like that random Redshirt who got crushed by a falling cannon during the "Up is Down" scene?

  • Why couldn't Elizabeth just join Will's crew on the Dutchman?
    • Because she's not dead. Yet.
      • But the sailors who joined Davy Jones' crew were not dead at the time of joining. When he raided ships, he specifically picked still-living crew members for his own crew, and killed the rest.
      • They were supposed to be either "dead or dying". Remember that Jones was surprised at Will being present during his collection in the second film. And also, the whole 'recruit army of undead' thing is not how the job is supposed to work when it's done properly.
      • Well, Jones would need a crew somehow. The fact that he was choosing mostly the most scummy sorts and encouraging them to even further cruelties was just a sign of how off the rails he'd gone. The captain of the Dutchman probably does have leeway to choose crew from the dead and dying, but it's probably supposed to be like "I'm not sure I'm ready for judgment, or to give up the sea yet... think I could sail with you for awhile, until I get it right in my head?" "Sure, grab a mop and start swabbing the deck, when seventh bell rings head down and pick out a hammock."

  • The final battle, where the Pearl and the Dutchman blow the Endeavour to bits bugged me. Sure, both the Dutchman and the Pearl were cool ships, but even both of them put together had fewer guns than a Man of War like Endeavour. On top of that, they attacked in precisely the worst possible way, flanking the Endeavour so that it could fire all of its guns at them, while they could only use half of their total cannon. If Beckett had given the order to fire, instead of standing there like a slack-jawed idiot the movie would have had a very different ending.
    • The Dutchman was an unbeatable supernatural ship. The Pearl was at least as legendary as the Dutchman. Each stood a reasonable chance against the Endeavour one-on-one, and with Beckett only able to devote half his crew to fighting each, it was a lost cause, no matter how much of a fight he would go down with.
      • Let's do this step by step, shall we:
      1. Ship armament. As you may or may not know, ship armament is measured in pounds per broadside, simply adding the weight of all the cannonballs in one broadside, every gun fired once. The Endeavour, (as her sister ship, the Dauntless) are straightforward copies of the HMS Victory, so I will use her armament as a base of comparison. This leaves us at a broadside of 1080 pounds. The Dutchman, canonically speaking, is a fluyt, 408 pounds per broadside were published as armament. The Black Pearl, as an East-Indiaman-Class and smallest of the three, features a broadside of 192 pounds. We've established, that in terms of firepower, the Endeavour is far superior, even to the two put together.
      2. Armor. A wooden hull offers absolutely no protection against Cannonballs fired at close range, and they take ships apart quite easily (if not this quickly, but that's the Rule of Cool for you), but they are also not significantly slowed, which gets us to
      3. Tactics. Their tactics are smeg, so to say. As a troper before me has already stated, attacking a warship from both sides is clearly a bad idea, for it can use 96% of its firepower (bow and stern guns excluded), while you can only use less than 50% of yours, and if your ships already lack firepower, well... Excuse me, last troper, you are mistaken about the only able to devote half his crew-part. The HMS Victory had a crew of at lest 850, and is, as every ship of the line, capable of furnishing all guns with the crew required. To quote: It is not only possible, it is essential. In fact Nelson's Tactic at the Battle of Trafalgar consisted of putting his ships between enemy ships, just for these reasons. In addition, keeping in mind that a cannonball will easily pass through a ship, the Black Pearl and the Dutchman would also inflict major damage to each other unless of course, they are saved by
      4. Supernatural Abilities. Granted, both good ships are cool supernatural ships, and the Dutchman is a submarine too. This being the case, sinking the Dutchman should prove quite impossible and even more useless, because she is essentially indestructible. The Black Pearl could even be damaged by the Interceptor, a ship of less than half half firepower. Jack even claims the damage was severe, although he is most likely lying. Still: we see damage, and the Black Pearl can be sunk. Heck, it even was sunk once. Oh and another time by the Kraken. She can be destroyed, or at least could be, if one gave the order to fire. Imagine a naval battle, a maelstrom of several dozen ships, guns blazing, some battles even going on aboard ships. What is the last thing you will hear? Right, your captain yelling two decks above you. That is why, in a battle situation, a gun crew will, with absolutely NO exception, open fire on an enemy ship whenever possible without waiting for an order. Also the captain might be dead, and joined by most of his officers, too, disrupting the command structure, and it would not be the first time. Conclusion: In reality, this battle would have been won by the Endeavour, and quite easily, too. But this is a movie, and there is something we call artistic license, and I respect it. Still when, like in this case, artistic license is extended to an equivalent of a Roger-Moore-era-James-Bond beating Superman unconscious with a rubber chicken, I can' help but wonder, if there could not have been a better solution for the climax of a trilogy than Errr... The good guys win, because... um... We say so... Yes. Fine. This approach to filmmaking just bugs me.
      • Considering that the EITC commanded the Dutchman for the whole movie up to that point, the Endeavour's crew was probably under explicit orders not to fire on her. Still doesn't explain not shooting the Pearl, though.
      • Moreover, up until they came within a few dozen yards, Beckett and the Endeavour's crew were presumably waiting for the Flying Dutchman to start firing ... on the Pearl. So far as they knew, Jones was still in command of the former and the two approaching ships had turned to line up broadsides against one another.
    • Actually, for a few centuries (around the time that POTC would have taken place), that was exactly how ships fought. They lined up (in rows if it were armada-to-armada), headed toward each other, and shot as they sailed past (and, if they had bow or stern cannons, before/after as well). Then they turned around and did it again. The limited firepower of rather primitive cannons and relative speed of two ships sailing away from each other limited battle time. And no, they did not fight in maelstroms. They broke apart and sank. That's just the Rule of Cool.
      • Incidentally, that solves the problem of the rest of the pirate armada. They were shooting at the random ships of the East India Trading Co. armada offscreen.
      • Actually, no, at the time of POTC (1740s-50s?), they did not fight like that. Warships fought by lining up in single, long, thin 'line of battle', so as to display all their broadsides to the enemy and maximize their firepower. Victory usually went to the side who gained the weather gage (being upwind of the enemy), and thus able to pick the range of the engagement at their leisure. Also, 'crossing the T' was a prevalent tactic. This entailed maneuvering to have the enemy's line perpendicular to your own, so you can engage him with all your broadsides, and he can only fire his bow chasers. So yeah, the battle at the end of POTC was total bull.
      • Also incidentally, the ships wouldn't typically turn around and do it again back then, because that would require them to sail upwind. Quite difficult for most wind-driven ships. Actually maneuvering your ship into position to engage another ship while at the mercy of the wind took a substantial amount of skill before steam power came along. As a side-note, "Crossing the T" remained a legitimate, if rarely used, naval tactic as late as World War II.
      • The time is more likely 1770s to 1780s, based on the ship rigs and the clothing, apart from that, I agree completely.
      • The timeframe is explicitly stated to be 1740s-ish, by Word of God, hence all the Anachronism Stew.
    • You guys do know why becket didn't give the order didn't you. He says to himself: 'Its just good business, thats just it' well, I like to believe that he knew he could win easily (as did the good guys) but he was evaluating the two side's causes (hence the deep thought while his crew were asking him to give the order) and had come to the conclusion that while the pirates were fighting for freedom, he was just in it for personal gain, and realized he was in the wrong.
      • ...Wow, no. Good gods, man, did you even watch the movie? That's not even remotely on the same planet as what actually happened. Beckett was just rambling because he realized he was about to be the center of a cannonball sandwich. He didn't think the Pirates were right. He was trying to justify himself to the very end. This is just...wow, I haven't seen a conclusion that far off the mark for a good long time.
      • Actually, I did see the movie, and like the tropers above will tell you, he could have won, plus JUST good business seems to me like the WORST justification to murdering hundreds ever. And you thought my conclusion was off the mark...
      • He was in it to make money and control the seas. That was his motivation. "Just good business" was his pithy catch phrase. Yes, he could have won, but he was freaking out because he's a businessman, not a sailor or a soldier, and even if his side won, his personal ship was right out front and guaranteed to get blown to hell even if he did manage to somehow destroy the undead super ship filled with unkillable fish men. He never "realized he was in the wrong". It was a straight-up Villainous BSoD at the end there, not him suddenly realizing the error of his ways.
      • Thanks for explaining, that makes sense now.
    • Exactly how was the Endeavour, or any other ship in the EITC fleet for that matter, supposed to kill the Dutchman? It is an invincible submarine crewed by the undying. At most all they can hope to do is sink every other ship in the pirate fleet, which will leave the new captain of said invincible submarine monumentally pissed off. I'm sure every single crewman aboard the Endeavour realized just how incredibly screwed they were the second the Dutchman came back, and no one saw the point in trying to fight on.
      • Uh... I'm not quite sure where the Dutchman was stated to be invincible. Particularly when you see it's mast getting torn to shreds by a single dose of Chain-shot. And moreover, even if the ship itself always came back, it did have one glaring weak spot... The captain's heart. The only reason the ship was immortal was because it was tied to Davy Jones' curse, not the other way around. Tia Dalma made it specifically that way, after all. The Dutchman "Has to have a captain," not because it's some insane undeniable fact, but because it's the only reason the Dutchman's magic persists. Blow up the heart, revoke anyone having ownership of the Dutchman, and the whole thing is gone. Really, all Beckett had to do was apply More Dakka until the damn ship was torn to shreds, and it wouldn't get back up again. Between that explanation for how to sink the Dutchman and the Pearl having been sunk once before and once after, really shouldn't have been that hard for Beckett to simply say "Fire," and win outright.
    • Like to add: I don't think Beckett ever planned on being in the line of fire. For god's sake, he was having tea on deck! That's terminal hubris.
      • Having just finished watching it again, it strikes me that there's a fairly obvious answer to why the Endeavour got sunk. Beckett's men were waiting for the order to fire, and Becket absolutely froze. By the time his Lieutenant realized that Beckett wasn't going to order anything, it was already too late to save the Endeavour. As for the rest of the Armada, they've just watched a maelstrom fiercer than anything they've ever seen (seriously, read up on maelstroms, they don't ever get that bad) seen two ships sail into it, one of which definitely sank, but then it comes back, and two ships, one of them a freighter, take out the Endeavour, supposedly one of the greatest battleships. And there's still more pirates. As captain, would you be eager to order your men in against that?
    • Let's put it simple: the Endeavour has firepower enough to completely own both the Black Pearl and the Flying Dutchman, and they were positioned exactly on the better points of her fire-line. Yeah, the Dutchman is an immortal living submarine manned by undead, but it has been showed to take battle damage, and even its undead fish men or whatever are shown to die in some scenes (I don't grasp the dynamic of this, but that's another matter), so it simply doesn't matter. If Becket had cried fire, the two pirate ships would have been devastated and their killable crew members killed before they had time to grin down the Endeavour like they did on the movie. I liked the movie overall, but I think it was a stupid script decision which caused the absurdity of a Big Bad having the bigger end of the stick and then losing for the sole reason he gets a completely unjustified Villainous BSoD. It's a What an Idiot! taken to an unimaginable extent.
      • The fish guys can be severely inconvenienced, but they're immortal. Hadras survives multiple decapitations before falling over the side of the ship. I agree it would have been better if we'd been shown that Beckett was losing it before his final BSOD. Guy was biting off quite a lot, conscripting Davy Fucking Jones and trying to take down the world's pirates in one fell swoop- there was opportunity to show beforehand it was more than he could chew.
      • Well, then they are not killable, but it is not a big ordeal, given that their ship is still destructible. The Endeavour is still on the better position given his ridiculous fire superiority. One order by Becket and the two pirate ships would have been chewed apart at the first burst. He had no reason to literally Stay Frosty and allow his ship to be meticulously destroyed.

  • Speaking of the final battle, why did all the characters act sad when the Dutchman went into the whirlpool, and then surprised that it came back out? Everybody in the movie by this point knows the Dutchman has submarine capabilities, so what the hell?
    • They weren't sad that the Dutchman went down. They were sad that Will just got killed.
      • Also, they couldn't be sure that it was coming back, or that Will would succeed Davy Jones. The idea that stabbing the heart and cutting out your own meant you replaced the previous captain was just a superstition—possibly one with truth in it—but no one had proved it to be valid until Will came back out.

  • So Calypso is finally released from her human form, is incredibly pissed from her imprisonment, and surrounded by the people who did it, so she ... turns into a pile of crabs and makes a giant whirlpool. That's it. Now, a giant whirlpool is pretty dangerous, but considering that she's the Goddess of the sea and she's got a good reason to kill everyone there, why didn't she summon a category 5 hurricane, or a tsunami, or another kraken? After all the build-up of how powerful she was and how angry she would be when released, she just becomes a background hazard afterwards and then forgotten.
    • The whirlpool only vanished when Davy Jones was consumed by it, so it seemed to be Calypso's way of making the Flying Dutchman and Black Pearl fight to the death. Since the pirates and Davy Jones held equal blame for her imprisonment and she had mixed feelings about them both, she decided to just let them fight it out over who dies. So long as somebody paid, she was happy.
      • Which is perfectly in keeping with her character, given that her lack of constancy is what started the whole mess with Jones in the first place. Basically, it's God(dess) saying "Screw 'em all, and let chance sort it out."
    • Also, having her turn into Gojira (or Cthulhu, or whatever) and happily chomp away Beckett's fleet is a bit anti-climatic, as funny as it sounds. ;-)
    • Of the people present, only Davy Jones was actually involved in imprisoning her; the rest of them had just taken over jobs left vacant by the people who'd imprisoned her. Seeing as how they decided to free her (admittedly for the sake of their own self-interest), she may very well have decided not to hold her imprisonment against them.
      • Will deliberately set her on Jones by ratting him out for betraying her. She becomes one with nature again, opens a maelstrom, (capable of robbing both the Dutchman and the Pearl of their legendary advantages) and waits for Will to fulfill his destiny by stabbing the heart.

  • What did Beckett mean by "Finally." in the opening of AWE?
    • He's glad that the pirates are gathering because it means he can wipe them out in one stroke.
      • That sounds reasonable, but...doesn't he say it in response to the henchman reporting that "they've started to sing" or something like that?
      • It's possible that he simply means "finally, they're all admitting that they're pirates by singing the old pirate song, and now they're accepting their fates" or something along those lines.
      • I always thought that them singing was supposed to be some sort of "call" to the Pirate Lords in order to convene the Court and save themselves. Note how Barbossa tells Sao Feng "the song has been sung" during their first encounter in the movie.
    • My guess? Before starting his war on piracy, Beckett had always been told pirates sang a lot, and was disappointed that, even with all the pirates he'd been dealing with, it had taken so long before he got to hear a real, honest-to-god pirate chanty. ... And now I've got this odd image of Beckett as the guy supervising the railroad workers from Blazing Saddles.
    • Seeing as how the phrase "the song has been sung" comes up at least a dozen times through out the film, it seems fairly obvious that the song is (as another troper said) as signal for a meeting of the pirate lords. Beckett probably found this out through interrogation.
    • Simple: He enjoys a rousing pirate song, and was quite disappointed that they didn't sing to him earlier.
    • Okay, for the sake of clarity: Beckett knows the song calls the Brethren Court to order all in one place, and — as was stated above — he likes the idea, as it would make taking them out a lot more efficient. So, he kills everyone he could find with a connection to piracy — hundreds maybe — in hopes they'd sing this friggin' song, so when they did start to sing it,.... "Finally".

  • Who could possibly have thought that the opening scene of the 3rd movie was in any way a good idea? I'm not squeamish, but doesn't it seem odd to have a scene, in a series that has cleaned up piracy of all things, in which the government/military is instituting mass hangings? It's not even necessary! Sure, it's a massive, Anvilicious Kick the Dog moment, but...they don't really have trouble establishing who their villains are, and there is no character development, plot exposition, or...anything in that scene. What was its purpose? How did no one point out that parents who had watched the previous two movies with their kids might be displeased when the third one showed a kid being executed along with scores of other people of dubious guilt? I cannot fathom the sheer stupidity.
    • It does serve a reason. The fact that the song has been sung over the medallion (the one the kid dropped) is what serves to note to the assorted Pirate Lords that the Brethren Court is convening. Beckett presumably knew enough about the Brethren Court to be trying to trigger this.
      • It shows that the East India Company is rounding up every pirate they find, which shows the entire motivation for 90% of the cast. And it shows Becket collecting pieces of eight, hinting that there's something important he's looking for, much like the chest in the previous movie. (they're the wrong kind of pieces of eight, but still.)
      • Apparently even the physics of hanging don't work the same in the POTC universe. You can't just set up six ropes and march up the next six people in line, take down the bodies, reset the ropes and bring up the next six. You can't just hang anyone by throwing a rope around their neck, unless you don't care how long it takes for them do die. Ideally, hanging works by snapping the convicted's neck when their body weight hits the end of the rope. This requires knowing at least within a small ballpark how much the person weighs and measuring the rope accordingly. Too light, and instead of breaking the neck they strangle to death. Slowly. (One man actually managed to survive his own hanging—the rope was wrong, and he SUCCESSFULLY argued to the judge that he was sentenced to be hanged, and he had been. In this case, doesn't count as the warrant specifically said "hanged by the neck until dead.") Too HEAVY for the rope, and they die really really fast, only by being decapitated. If you wanted to be a horribly slow, inefficient way of mass execution, hanging would have to be it. The sheer inconvenience of the method would easily outweigh any cost of the bullets and powder to shoot them. Never mind the mess involved in disposing of that many corpses on a small island (burning is not as efficient as people think—there's a reason Those Wacky Nazis had crematoria.)
      • The "Long Drop" method of hanging you refer to wasn't in use until 1872 and these films are all set in, what, the late 1700s? At this point they did actually use a standard length for everyone, so friends and family would actually run up to pull the legs of a hangee so that they'd die quicker instead of strangling slowly.
      • Knowing Beckett, he might've had some of his underlings invent the "long drop" because the usual method of hanging wasn't efficient enough. Just because the technique wasn't employed in executions doesn't mean it wasn't known to be possible; accidental hangings and suicides would provide examples of how to do away with someone more quickly than by strangulation.
      • You also have possibly overestimated how small a 'small island' actually is. Some grisly things really did go on in Jamaica at the time (slave ships docked there, though you wouldn't know it from this film, and even slaves who survived the crossing, more often than not, didn't live very long when they got to the new world. A lot of Jamaica wasn't yet utilized for anything much- burial grounds were not in short supply.)
    • Beckett a) wouldn't give a rat's ass about how much the men being hanged suffered as they hung, why make more work for the executioner when one length of rope will at least kill them, even if not ideally? And perhaps the time it would take to measure it correctly for each prisoner is longer than the time it takes them to die inefficiently? And b) it's a good demoralizing tactic. "Hey, pirates, check out what we're doing to your friends. Yah, plenty more to come, too, great innit?"
      • Who cares if they suffer or not? The point is it's grossly inefficient. It would take a truly ABSURD amount of time, you'd have people not dying immediately and others getting decapitated and it's all a huge mess and would probably take days, when bayoneting or shooting them in small groups would be just as fast and a lot more accurate. They way they throw ammo around elsewhere suggests it's not in short supply. That would still give them time to sing without leaving the soldiers cutting down people still choking and dragging headless corpses off and starting a general panic. And in a tangent, except for habeus corpus (which is easily and routinely suspended in emergencies anyway), they don't HAVE any of the rights that are being suspended in the first place under the laws of the day. There's a reason the founding US government felt the need to spell them all out—they WEREN'T automatically recognized as existing in the first place.
      • That story about a man being set free after surviving his own hanging is a myth. It never happened. People have survived initial execution attempts before, but there has never been a case where it was successfully argued in court that because the first attempt at execution failed, the condemned man had to be set free. And courts have always phrased it "hanged by the neck until dead".
      • Actually, the 'surviving', if it really happened, is more likely to be a story of the trapdoor on mechanical gallows- once they had been invented- repeatedly sticking. It's also probably not true.
      • People, people. It's movie magic because having a new batch of wretches drop every time the crier says "suspended" is a lovely grisly pun. Chill.

  • In the third film, why does Beckett leave Davy Jones's heart on The Flying Dutchman where, you know, Davy Jones is? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep it in his quarters where he could guard it carefully? On the same note, why does Jones seem absolutely against having his heart on the ship? It's possible he only stole it during the climax because the navy soldiers were busy attacking The Black Pearl. But why couldn't he have done it earlier? Not to mention he has an army of fish people who could just as easily do it for him? And he's nigh immortal too?
    • He did have the heart with him initially, but sent it over to the Dutchman (with guards) so that Jones would have a constant reminder of who was boss. After all, in Beckett's estimation Jones wouldn't try to take the heart back when the guards could blast it before he even got close to it, and he was largely correct- it wasn't until Jones goes totally Ax-Crazy in the climax that he tries to do that. And Jones doesn't want the heart on his ship because he hates it and what it represents- his lost humanity.
      • Also note that this theory is exactly what happens; someone absconds with the heart, it's just not Jones, and as soon as Jones sees that he has an opening (Mercer's bodyguards having been killed in the first exchange of fire with the Pearl) he acts.
      • Agreed. Note the tear that appears when he's listening to his locket. He picks it up with one of his beard-tentacles and stares at it, shocked. Then he starts shaking with rage. He's realized that he's feeling soft, and he knows what that means.
      • So, if it's having his heart nearby that makes Jones susceptible to emotion, then Beckett may have wanted the chest on board the Dutchman so Jones would be vulnerable to intimidation? Sneaky man, Beckett.
    • Probably to make it more of a threat for Jones. This way it would be absolutely clear that Beckett had the ability to kill Jones - not showing it to him would cause him to believe the threat was a bluff. Also, in the event that the Dutchman was overtaken by pirates (who knew from the previous film that Jones's heart was his weakness) who wanted to win the fight, Jones and a bunch of Mooks would be the only real casualties.
    • Food for thought- Jones can teleport. Keeping the heart on another ship is not the best way to keep it safe from him; at most, it will mildly inconvenience him by adding slightly to his travel time when he decides to go for it. The only way to truly keep it out of his reach would be to stash it on land, but then it would be too far away to work as an immediate threat to Jones. In short, it really doesn't matter what ship the heart is on, so long as it's surrounded by guns- which it is, until most of those marines get called away to fight the Pearl.
      • Another thought, what would happen if Jones was rebelling? If the heart was on land or on another ship, communications could have been delayed until Jones caused trouble. Jones would still be "under control" but something like refusing to go after someone fleeing would allow them to escape and that would cause more problems for the EITC. The closer the heart to Jones, the quicker the order to kill it could be relayed.

  • So, Barbossa and Swan head off to Singapore to ask Sao Feng for a ship. How did they get to Singapore in the first place? It's only the entire Pacific Ocean in the way.
    • They took passage on a ship. They couldn't hire a ship for a voyage without a destination, but they can hire a ship to Singapore.
      • And being Pirates, they couldn't just steal that ship? Even though they still needed the charts, it probably would have been a much easier trip through Singapore if they just stole them without asking Sao Feng for a ship.
      • And where are they going to get a crew for this ship? They're less than a dozen of them. They need Sao Feng's charts, a ship, and a crew to crew the ship.
      • And they also need to give Sao Feng a piece of eight (lowercase p) and tell him the song has been sung.
    • For what it's worth, they probably didn't cross the Pacific; that would have meant rounding South America, and the most arduous and uncertain of journeys in the world on the other side (the Pacific wasn't really charted, and for those ships that had managed to cross it- all explorers at this point- lost large numbers of their crew to malnutrition and exhaustion). Even if it's slightly further (or maybe not, not sure) it would be more probable to cross the Atlantic to South Africa (Cape Town was well-established by then, and they would probably have found it a hospitable place to negotiate and rest, provided they were relatively discreet about their criminal status), and go on from there across whatever route was available. This was a relatively well-sailed route by then, so it would be fairly easy to get passage- by money, intimidation, working their passage or a combination of some of the above- on a merchant vessel going the right way. Also, easier to get to the right place if you're taking a route with a few stops on the way where you can change ships.
      • Also a lot easier to recruit the other Pirate Lords to the anti-Beckett crusade along the way, since most of those were from Europe or somewhere bordering the Indian Ocean.

  • At the end of the movie, Barbossa feeds his monkey a peanut. However, the monkey became cursed again at the end of the first film and it was said that for those who ere cursed, "food turned to ash in our mouths." So is this heartwarming moment actually completely pointless?
    • Tia Dalma may have restored the monkey's capacity to taste after Jack left it with her as payment, since there isn't much point to letting the Aztec curse's effects punish an animal for theft. Plus, it's bound to be a lot easier to train a monkey if it can be given tasty food rewards, not just a scratch behind the ears, for doing what the trainer wants.

  • When Will is leaving a trail of metaphorical breadcrumbs via notes stuffed into the pockets of dead British soldiers... where did the bodies come from? As I see it, there's two explanations. Either they were already dead, or they were prisoners who Will was killing to give him something to weigh the barrels down. Since Will is Incorruptible Pure Pureness, I don't see him murdering unarmed captives, so as far as I'm concerned, they were already dead. But if it's the latter, then this then begs the question... why weren't they thrown overboard after the battle? Why did the pirates keep them aboard the Pearl? Either way, the movie not explaining where the surplus of dead British soldiers came from was odd.
    • Will wasn't using the bodies to "weigh the barrels down", he was using them to attract seagulls to the barrels to ensure Beckett's crew would find them. As to why they were still on board, Jack's crew may have figured they could make Will get rid of the corpses for them, not wanting the icky job of heaving bodies over the side. Will covertly tied ropes to some of them before tossing them off the stern, let them drag behind the ship, then hauled them up to lash onto the barrels once he escaped the cell they'd locked him up in after the grisly chore was over.

  • How was Lord Beckett not hit by flying pieces of wood while walking down the steps of his exploding ship?
    • Sheer chance in-Verse; shameless melodrama on a meta level.

  • What happened to Moray, Clanker and Hadras, we saw Moray get decapitated and Hadras and Clanker fall into the whirlpool yet we don't see them on the deck with the rest of the crew when they turned Human, Moray could have survived since Hadras got decapitated in the 2nd movie and lived and Clanker and Hadras could have survived since we saw Maccus fall into the whirlpool yet he was present on deck with the rest of the crew.
    • Actually, Maccus didn't fall in the whirpool. He fell below the deck. While there is a chance that these three surived, they could be casualties of the maelstrom. I personally believe they were.
  • And what about all the Calypso crap... a giant black chick standing in a toilet. Whu-fuh? She could have been left out of the thing entirely and not changed the story much at all... Feng thinks Elizabeth is the incarnation of something that doesn't exist, and later on, pow! Random whirlpool for the 'cool' battle.

  • At World's End- When William sets sail and proceeds to leave Elizabeth behind in a bittersweet ending, his father assures him that she cannot go with them. No explanation is given for why this has to happen, merely that it must be this way. Which leaves the audience to wonder- given that Elizabeth successfully navigated to Davy Jones' locker at the beginning of the movie, and that Will and his father can both apparently survive the journey intact, what exactly is preventing this from happening? Is there some as yet unexplained aspect to the bargain of the Dead Man's Chest? Is Will's father just a big believer in the old adage that it is bad luck to bring a woman on board a ship? Does he secretly not approve of the marriage and want to make his daughter in law miserable?
    • Word of God is that if the wife stays faithful for the ten years, the captain can elect to leave and become mortal again, and appoint someone else. Meeting up before ten years isn't staying true to the rules, and that would turn Will into a sea monster.
  • So... at the end of the first film, Captain Barbosa is dead, and Ragetti isn't. And Ragetti has the wooden eye that was Barbossa's "piece of eight". Wouldn't that have made Ragetti the new Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea?
    • Given how Sao Feng actively tells Elizabeth about her being a Pirate Lord and hands it to her, it could be that Pirate Lords need to be outright named as successors, rather than it just coming down to who ends up with the Piece of Eight if the Pirate Lord dies.
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