During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Right...let me know if you add him...
First the Unknown Man, and now this? Sheesh.
I know, right? Then again, Elfen Lied isn't exactly the happiest work in the world... 
Anyway, I feel that CM entries being on YMMV makes it easier to find and clean-up or add entries for our candidates (it also prevents arguments over certain characters like Turbo or Ghestis from spilling into main pages). That said, CM doesn't really strike to me as something where one's opinions will widely differ so much as the most heinous type of villain there is. As a result, I really don't mind if CM is no longer listed under YMMV if guys like Septimus and Shaoken think that is the right action to take.
One more thing, I found another photo that I think illustrates Lem as a CM better than my previous suggestion. In this photo, rather than simply restraining Nadeshiko, Lem is seen in the process of committing a CM-caliber crime (i.e. killing her in front of Gentaro). Click here
◊ for the photo and let me know if you think this will work better.
edited 29th Jul '14 10:22:12 PM by sanfranman91
Together, we are one.
Starting on MLP fanworks. So far, I've only found this.
Alternative Character Interpretation: The Slave King. Is he a Complete Monster who relishes in Kicking the Dog, or simply a broken man who has to take extreme measures to protect himself in a hostile new world, and administer justice for the many wrongs committed against him?
I believe kicking the dog isn't heinous enough to warrant someone being called a Complete Monster. Now if they were committing Moral Event Horizon actions that would set them apart from simply being a standard Jerkass. That's the reason why Ghetsis doesn't qualify if I remember correctly.
I'll post more as I find them. Hopefully there won't be too many more.
I can say without hyperbole that this is not an easy job and would appreciate someone helping me.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Re Kakuzawa: On his character page under Even Evil Has Loved Ones, it says this is the reason why he gave his daughter the means to become human again. Are we sure he doesn't love her and merely sees her as a test subject, because this sounds like a possible Pet the Dog moment.
edited 30th Jul '14 2:29:33 AM by OccasionalExister
Lizzid people!
I kind of doubt that, though. Judging by his beforehand, I really doubt it. Mostly, Witch Of The Absolute explained his character.
edited 30th Jul '14 6:34:12 AM by AustinDR
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
For the TRS initiative after finishing the last subpages.
For the examples from this post I brought up, I did some more research. I've cut all the bad examples. For the potential keeps:
For the Knight and Rogue series, I asked them to come in and explain. One of the two candidates from that is listed under Save the Villain on the main page (and unlike cases like Goku's initial mercy for Freeza, this is apparently presented as a good thing), making me doubt if he qualifies as "irredeemable".
Lux-Pain is unlikely to have any CMs because most of the villains apparently only become that after their minds are taken over by The Corruption. If anyone qualifies they can explain so later, but for now it's a cut.
Lost Eden: Moorkus Rex seems to qualify handily; did a rewrite for him. The Enslaver is apparently a Posthumous Predecessor Villain, so he's out.
- Lost Eden: Moorkus Rex is an evil dinosaur tyrant who leads an army of Tyranns to conquer all other kingdoms. He doesn't want to Take Over the World so much as simply dismember it (reducing the world to "blood and ashes at my feet", as he put it), and his mooks cut swaths of destruction wherever they go. His real power is illusion and fakery—he lies every time he opens his mouth, trying to sow confusion and despair, while the real threat — the Tyrann — destroys everything in their path. It unfortunately works all too well on Dina, whom he tricked into believing he had gruesomely murdered her mate.
Here's another batch of cuts/keeps.
Melrose Place
- Complete Monster: Jack Parezi. Aside from being a wife-beater throughout his marriage to Amanda, even on his deathbed, he still tried to kill Amanda and would have if his injuries sustained in the fall hadn't killed him first!
Not heinous enough, since he only attempts to kill one person. Also, since this is set in the same continuity as Beverly Hills, 90210, he has to compete with the qualified Serial Rapist from the reboot.
Metaspace
- Complete Monster: While there are a lot of Anti Villains, there are also many horrifyingly, irredeemably evil characters.
- Blitzkrieg, who tortures and kills innocent people For the Evulz (and in fact, prefers going for them instead of intended targets). Even the assassin Dyno Myte calls him out on this and threatens to call superiors... which leads to Blitz deleting him off!
- Manipulating a not-so-bright Anti-Magic Meta into committing genocide against magical races probably puts Xilus there. He also kills innocent women and girls just because they have supernatural powers.
- Dr. Geno Cyde. He takes innocent humans and subjects them to experiments more horrible than you can imagine (Unwilling Roboticisation, The Corruption, etc), and nukes planets with a Horde of Alien Locusts/The Virus/The Corruption. He even experimented on his wife and children, with no remorse at all!
Yeah, they all sound really bad. Since this is a troper-work I don't think it'd be much of an issue to ask them to explain it.
Metaverse
- Complete Monster: Nazi Verbish, who not only took over most of the world, but forces almost all women under his rule to work as whores.
- Other Verbish is bad enough, but he's happy with just being a serial killer rather than a global threat.
Other Verbish is apparently a Split Personality without moral agency. My main concern with Nazi Verbish is that it's a comedy series according to the main page, so I don't know if his actions are played straight enough.
Mindmistress
- Complete Monster: Lolerei's grandfather (who appears only in retrospections) hired Les Kidman, a pedophile and murderer, as a part of a plan in which he was supposed to kill her, because Lolerei is mentally challenged and her grandfather considered it a disgrace to the family name.
In this case I don't think being a Posthumous Character is a point against, since it seems the grandfather is featured in flashbacks. That said, Les Kidman sounds a lot worse, so if anyone would be a standout it'd be him.
Murder One
- Complete Monster: Richard Cross starts out looking like one and certainly heads in that direction, but has moments towards the end that show he really does regret his actions. Roberto Portalegre plays this fully straight though, being completely unrepentant over killing Jessica and saying he would happily do it again if he could. Similarly, Graham Lester has no appreciable moral qualms about framing one of his own patients.
Cut everyone. Cross is a non-example period, the other two aren't heinous enough.
My Immortal
- Complete Monster: Snap, Loopin, and Volxemort, according to Tara. It doesn't really work out.
Yes, the infamous fanfic. Seems like typical misuse for You Monster!. I suggest to move it over there and be done with it.
edited 30th Jul '14 7:12:26 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Lizzid people!
That, and My Immortal was meant to be a troll fic. So cut.
My Immortal: We actually don't know if it was a troll fic, but yeah, move to You Monster!.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Lizzid people!
Are you sure? The writing's so horrible, that it really gives off that allusion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
X4: 90210 and MP are the same continuity? Huh. Also, don't forget to request the cuts from the CM pages.
Lizzid people!
Which ones?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Melrose apparently started as a Poorly Disguised Pilot on 90210.
Thanks for the reminder, ACW. These are almost all just orphaned YMMV examples, but the Khaos Comics example does have an entry on the main list.
RE: My Immortal: Troll fics don't require Word of God citations, do they? In any case, the in-universe You Monster! can certainly be listed even on an intentionally offensive "work".
EDIT: Natalie Geln was also listed on ImageLinks.Complete Monster, so I've cut that too.
edited 30th Jul '14 7:17:31 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Lizzid people!
Alright, just requested those cuts.
So, is there anything else that needs to be said regarding the Kakuzawa writeup? Feel free to ask.
edited 30th Jul '14 7:23:51 AM by AustinDR
For Kamen Rider, the image is good but it needed some cropping. The new image is here
◊.
edited 30th Jul '14 7:27:12 AM by randomtroper89
Lizzid people!
Looks good.
Also, I was wondering if we ever discussed Aunt Ruth Chandler from The Girl Next Door?
What has she done?
She takes child abuse to a horrifyingly new level. She would do many inhumane things to her nieces, like binding and gagging Meg to a cellar, allowing her children to rape her, carved obscenities on Meg's stomach, and ultimately mutilated her niece with a blowtorch. She would also dish out punishments to her other niece over her sister's disobedience. She had also regularly molested her own niece.
None that I know off.
Heinous in story?
Definitely. She is responsible for all of the trouble that happens in the plot, and she ultimately hired the other children into torturing her nieces.
Conclusion
She is an utterly despicable woman.
edited 5th Dec '14 6:06:30 AM by AustinDR
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Scariest thing: I haven't seen/read the movie/book, but it's based on a true story.
Lizzid people!
I know, and that's the worst thing about it.
Can I propose Lord Cotys from the new Hercules movie?
I have seen the movie yesterday and his crimes include murdering many innocent villages and framing another lord for it after which he orders Hercules to capture him, attempting to execute his own daughter after she refuses to side with him, trying to slit his grandson's throat in order to provoke Hercules and threatening to kill his own men if they refuse to kill Herc.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, seems like a candidate (trying to kill his daughter, and ESPECIALLY trying to kill his grandson, push him beyond standard villainy).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Could be a keep. Mind doing a complete proposal, if everyone here is OK? Don't want to spoil anyone who might be planning to see it. I also second Morgenthaler's recommendations. Can we get a writeup or Archbishop Argile, too?
And in Bleach...Giselle's getting there. Keeping her on the watch list. Also, what does it say that Mayuri's now revived deceased Arrancar and is keeping them working for him via electrical shock torture directly to their brains? And he's the 'good guy' here, geez...
Also, King David..
- King David Jehoahz Abraham, the King of Alma Torran of the past and the ruler of the Magicians. As King, David oppresses all non-human species in his empire with magic towers constructed to steal their reason and intellect, turning them into feral, mindless beasts under the control of the human ruling class. Having discovered the form of 'Ill Illah,' an Eldritch Abomination known as God, David makes plans to surpass it and take a seat as God himself. When his son Solomon rebels against David's tyranny, David bides his time until Solomon and his True Companions attack David's capital. David lets them attack a decoy before leading his magicians to butcher the helpless civilians in David's entourage, including the children. The young son of two of Solomon's closest followers is found hideously burnt and dying, but still alive, begging his mother to save him as he dies in her arms. The one fighter who attempts to stop David is mercilessly slaughtered with nothing short of cold satisfaction. When engaging Solomon, David shows no regret or remorse, proclaiming his grand ambitions and utter megalomania.
edited 30th Jul '14 9:54:52 AM by Lightysnake
If anyone else seen the movie, might they provide the writeup. I ain't good at those but if anyone else has seen the movie and for now things seem to go in favor of Lord Cotys, we can come up with a good writeup.
for Aunt Ruth. For the new Hercules villain I'll wait for an effortpost.
While doing clean-up on The Dark Tower, I see that Randall Flagg (Stephen King's premier Monster) is listed under Alas, Poor Villain, Rape as Backstory and Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Is this misuse, or is his excuse relevant to his present-day villainy?
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
By the way, I noticed that Koba still isn't on the Film list.
Thanksies. Sandbox looks good.
edited 29th Jul '14 10:03:19 PM by AustinDR