There's been a lot of talk lately about how Tropes Needing TRS is getting too long and backed-up, as well as about how many of the tropes added might not even need TRS action at all. It was decided we should make a short-term project thread to clean out the page before we take any more drastic actions.
Some potential guidelines for what might need to be removed:
- Tropes added without enough discussion or a prior wick check (does not apply to issues such as Not Thriving)
- Entries that either misunderstand the trope or require more consensus about the trope's usage first
- Things that already have open or finished TRS threads
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 23rd 2022 at 1:49:23 PM
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I’ve embarked recently on a project of my own related to this. When I have time, I will be very slowly wick checking each of the tropes added here, determining if there’s a problem, and if there isn’t the trope can be removed after discussion. I didn’t even get to finishing the first trope (Clumsy Copyright Censorship) before this was made, but hopefully my personal project will be of help to this thread regardless. I had originally planned to post the wick check results in the TRS meta thread if there wasn’t a problem as a means of starting a discussion about Tropes Needing TRS, so I’m glad the initiative has been taken.
Question that might be better for another thread-does the complaining sandbox in my description need similar cleaning? I overzealously added several non-fitting entries there a while back, and some cleanup may be needed in that department.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
The complaining sandbox might not need cleaning so much as a formal effort to finally tackle the pages listed there. But that's for a different day.
I don't mind tackling the various wick checks at Wick Check Project if you want to do that. It might be helpful to discuss things here first though to determine which ones even ''need' wick checks and which ones can just be removed outright. Heck, maybe instead of cutting things we could comment them out if people don't want to just start slashing.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Officially intimidated
Adding old pages that suffer from wick starvation should be fair game, but for the other categories I agree with a cleanup.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, that's why I specifically mentioned "Not Thriving" threads an exception to the discussion / wick check clause.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Yeah obviously I am in favor of a cleanup as well. This was meant as a personal project anyway.
So I added Camera Screw a while back for complaining issues. I realize now said issues might not be so bad. Any other thoughts?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Complaining is always a difficult subject, not just because it's a subjective issue but because there's not much the TRS can do to stop people from using a trope to complain. It's a cultural issue more than a trope one. So I'm not sure how to treat Camera Screw.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Dedicated cleanup threads tend to be a good way to approach complaining pages. They also, however, sometimes get ignored-Cliché Storm’s thread died almost immediately.
Bigger tropes might get more traction though. I don’t know.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, it's a tricky one. I personally lean toward keeping it on the page for now.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Will do. The trope will stay for now.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Uh Adult Fear is still listed. Should I remove it now that there's been a TRS thread?
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 11th 2022 at 6:01:17 AM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yup. People forget to go and remove those all the time.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Thanks, it and Extreme Sport Excuse Plot are gone.
Blapper of Water
I recently moved the tropes mentioned in the crash rescue thread to Tropes Needing TRS in order to clean up the sandbox, but didn't really think that some discussion might help. Clearly there's been discussion for these tropes already, but they slipped through the cracks and are now too old to be dealt with by the rescue thread. Should these tropes get their own grouped TRS thread in order to minimize their impact or should they all get discussed one by one like other tropes going through TRS? Or should that be discussed somewhere else.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
It would be best to discuss them one by one. Batch threads are chronically proven to be messy and overcomplicated, especially if the tropes have unique issues.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Lucas the Dreamer
Does Nintendo Hard need to be moved to YMMV? I think so but I’ve seen people argue that it’s grading objective difficulty.
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Jan 11th 2022 at 7:03:37 AM
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
There are also some that have "bad on-page examples" as a reason, which isn't evidence of a sitewide usage problem. For example, Autobots, Rock Out! is there because of onpage ZCE, but like...was there an effort to clean the ZCE before adding?
Also, some are "maybe we are just missing another trope?" which doesn't need TRS. For example, Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys's entry says it gathers onpage examples of competent French fighters. The solution there doesn't need TRS; just remove those examples as misuse for now then someone can TLP it.
Nintendo Hard always comes up as a YMMV candidate, but unless someone actually does the legwork for a check we can't really be sure.
Edited by Synchronicity on Jan 11th 2022 at 6:06:10 AM
Lucas the Dreamer
What would you be looking for in a wick check of Nintendo Hard?
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Jan 11th 2022 at 1:37:24 PM
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Subjectivity, I presume. This is probably a better question for the Trope Talk discussion or Wick Check Project.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think any IUEO tropes that have sinkhole problems (like "Not Making This Up" Disclaimer) can be removed because we already have permission to nuke those sinkholes without TRS, and I think tropes that were added because they attract one-handed examples would probably be better suited to a cleanup thread than TRS.
I already brought up the IUEO tropes on the discussion page, but not too many people noticed it.
Edit: I removed "Not Making This Up" Disclaimer and Don't Explain the Joke for the reason I already mentioned. I'll wait for more input on the ones that attract one-handed troping.
Edit: Also, we could probably go through the "Poor title" folder and scrub entries that are simply complaining about the current name without commenting on how the trope is used. Basically, the ones whose writeup includes the sort of wording you'd find in a TRS thread that was made because the thread creator proposed changing the name without providing a wick check (i.e., the threads I've been calling "Change the name because I don't like it" threads for quite a while).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 12th 2022 at 3:28:04 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I don't mind doing that. I can post an analysis of that folder in a bit.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
If a wick check finds that the pothole magnets are, say, 50% self-troping potholes and 30% misuse, that's probably worth a TRS visit. But for now, those are just hunches/quick observations and don't need to occupy space on Tropes Needing TRS.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
- Artificial Stupidity: Trope is supposed to be "AI is able to make choices and decisions but it does so badly", however many examples involve "AI" that is just following pre-determined orders, or things that they can't do because it was never programmed to be able to in the first place. Possible rename. Seems okay
- Bastard Boyfriend and Bastard Girlfriend: Supposed to be examples where the abuse is played for sexiness, but is often used to refer to any abusive boyfriend and girlfriend. Checks out'
- Better Than Canon: The trope refers to fan works hailing something better than the work it's derived from. However, possibly due to the name, it is sometimes misused for fans preferring aspects of non-canonical but still officially licensed works over what happens in canon. Seems a bit wishy-washy, but ehhh
- Born in an Elevator is broader than its title suggests — it covers any instance of a baby being born on the way to the hospital. There are just as many examples, if not more, that have the baby born in a vehicle. It only has 63 wicks, and this specific name may be preventing broader use. Keeps
- Caught in the Rain: The title doesn't hint in any way that it has to lead to kissing or sex. However, Romantic Rain is supposed to be the variant that leads to kissing or sex. Compare sister tropes Snowed-In (which doesn't lead to kissing or sex) and Snow Means Love (which does). Ambiguous title, but no usage mentioned.
- City in a Bottle: Two
threads have had difficulty picking images because this trope has a misleading name — it can be confused for literal cities in bottles. I think this keeps because people have been confused by it.
- Death By Sex: A horror trope where sex foreshadows death, but the title suggests death caused by sex, which is Out with a Bang. Currently has a wick check under way.
- Destroy the Evidence: Did you think this trope was actually about destroying the evidence? Nope! This is (meant to be) specifically and only about evidence that is (1) about someone else, and (2) could be given to the authorities specifically. Needless to say the page has examples (and an image) relating to destroying evidence in general. Keeps
- Double Aesop: It's been shown that the name can make one think of two morals being delivered instead of just one, but the trope is actually about two people learning the same aesop. I think this keeps too.
- Dropped Glasses: The trope is narrower than the name suggests, and examples are a mixture of dropped glasses being stepped on and dropped glasses causing problems. On Image Pickin, it was suggested by a mod that this be taken to TRS due to the trope's clarity issues. Keeps.
- Einstein Sue: See here. "Character with no expertise knows the solution when experts don't" is a valid trope, but because of the "Sue" in its name, the name seems too negative, and not every character who has this happen to them is automatically a Mary Sue. Eh, it does have a discussion but we'd need proof of a bigger issue.
- Entertainingly Wrong: The title suggests something broader than the trope, which refers to characters drawing the wrong conclusion from correct but incomplete information. Its redirect, Wrong for the Right Reasons, is more explicit about this, and may actually be a better title. Ambiguous title, no usage mentioned.
- Female Flatfoot and Snarky Guy: A "flatfoot" is generally either somebody that has trouble walking due to a medical condition, or somebody who is too surprised to react. A since-pulled image does match this definition, too. Usage of the word "flatfoot" to refer to police officers, as with the trope name, appears to be archaic and thus is probably unknown in modern day, resulting in a confusing trope name — the trope has nothing to do with either of the word's modern-day definitions. This feels too anecdotal. I learned the police-term from Spongebob. It's not that archaic.
- Fiery Salamander applies to any reptile or amphibian with fire powers, not salamanders exclusively. But the trope name appears to imply otherwise, making the trope sound narrower than it actually is. Needs examples
- Harmful to Minors: This trope is about children watching something that's bad for them, but due to the vague title, it's frequently used for bad things happening directly to children. I guess this keeps?
- Henchmen Race for some reason requires the bad guy to have personally created this race. That's not indicative from the title, and probably attracts "wrong" examples. "Probably" doesn't cut it.
- The Hero's Birthday: Sounds like it's the same as Birthday Episode, and even had an image that was literally about the hero's birthday. The trope is when a story or work begins on (or close to) the hero's birthday, which isn't indicated by the title. Due to this, it's frequently misused for any hero's birthday. Keeps
- Hype Backlash: Refers to when a work is so heavily praised it can't possibly meet the fans' expectations. However, given that that hype can be prerelease publicity and anticipation, it is sometimes misused for when works are hyped up prior to release and fail to meet expectations when they come out. Hype Aversion, which is about when people avoid seeing the work for similar reasons, is also misused in this context. Keeps, I guess.
- I Love Nuclear Power is not about loving nuclear power. It is about getting beneficial mutations and/or superpowers from nuclear material. All of its sister tropes are instead named "X Can Do Anything." A former page image depicted a scientist hugging a nuclear tower instead of the actual trope. I agree this one has a bad title, but there's no usage mentioned.
- The Imp: The title is too broad for the concept it's meant to cover: a vice-ridden, non-threatening creature often tied to a more powerful character. Unsurprisingly, it attracts examples of all imp-like creatures. Keeps
- "Join the Army," They Said: The trope is about military recruitment adverts, but the dialogue-based title makes it sound like Recruiters Always Lie. No example usage.
- Kill Em All: Supposed to be an ending trope where everyone or almost everyone dies in the end, but is often used when a villain plans to kill large amounts of people and/or gives this command. This is undoubtedly because the name is also a Stock Phrase often used in this manner, so it should be changed to “Kill Em All” Ending or Everybody Dies Ending to make it clear that it is an ending trope. Keeps
- Lady in Red: The title merely means female characters in red, never mentioning that the character has to be "sexual" Eh, it's an appearance and color trope so I feel like it's always implied to be misused, but it might still need a usage check.
- Logic Bomb: This trope is for when a computer blows up because it cannot process certain information, but due to the vague title, it's used for any kind of paradox regardless of who interprets it or what happens as a result. Keeps
- Mailer Daemon: The title is a pun on a fairly obscure part of the Internet email protocolnote , and readers cannot be expected to know that. Additionally, the server programs that route email are usually called "mail transfer agents" (MTAs for short), or just "mail servers"; searching for "mailer daemon" in the software repositories for at least one Linux distribution (in this case, Manjaro Linux) provides no results, compared to how searching for just "daemon"note produces a very long list of results. Okay, and?
- Nosebleed: Name is too generalized for a trope referring to nosebleeds resulting from sexual arousal. Every wick check ever done has proven that the usage is fine, including this one.
- Oddly Small Organization: the trope is an organization that we are informed is pretty large, but we are shown only a small team. It gets misused for any organization that is small. Keeps
- On One Condition: The trope describes plots where a dying person's inheritance is only granted to a character if they meet a certain condition. However, several wicks use it in the context of other conditional agreements, due to the title sounding more like a Stock Phrase. The broader idea of an agreement reliant on a certain condition may be tropeworthy, while this more specific idea about wills should get a more specific title. Keeps
- Paint It Black: Does not describe what the trope is, i.e. a magical Evil Makeover. In addition, the Trope Namer ("Paint It Black" by The Rolling Stones) has nothing to do with the trope, which even the description points out. No usage mentioned
- Perverse Sexual Lust: Title is a reference to an obscure webcomic and is incredibly vague about what it refers to; there are far more widely used terms for attraction to a fictional character. A previous thread resolved to turn it into an IUEO trope about in-universe characters lusting over fictional creations. No usage mentioned
- Phlebotinum-Induced Stupidity: Far too restrictive a name for something that doesn't have to involve Phlebotinum at all; it only has 95 wicks. Could be renamed and expanded to include Status Infliction Attacks that reduce Intelligence. No usage mentioned
- The Punishment: The page describes a very specific concept - a supernatural punishment that also gives the victim superpowers - but the name is as vague as can be. The description also weirdly describes the victim as "the Punishment", with capitalization. Another title that's definitely bad but needs a usage check.
- River of Insanity: The trope isn't actually about rivers but about any trip, and attracts misuse based on that. Its redirect Doomed Expedition covers the content better. Keeps
- Robosexual: Refers to robots having sex lives, but used to refer to humans attracted—romantically and/or sexually—to robots, which stems from offsite usage of the term. Relevant discussion, including a partial wick check. Keeps
- School for Scheming: The trope name reads like it's literally about schools for scheming. It's actually about schools that are coverups schemes. In fact, the trope name reads so ambiguously that the description is required to point out that it's not about any Academies Of Evil. Keeps
- The Scream: This trope is specifically about massively zoomed-out shots of screams. Of course, due to the trope's very ambiguous name, a good amount of the examples are "somebody screams in this work." Keeps
- Self-Abuse: Nothing in the title indicates that it's a euphemism for masturbation as opposed to something like Self-Harm. It doesn't seem to be heavily misused, but it may be underused, with only 52 wicks since 2011. Should probably be in "Not Thriving".
- Shameless Fanservice Girl: While the Trope is intended to be about rejecting the nudity taboo (note that No Nudity Taboo is an index and not a trope), its title has led people to believe that it's about characters who embrace their sexuality, which is covered by several Fanservice Tropes. Keeps
- Sim Sim Salabim: This is a Hollywood Atlas trope which, aside from suffering from Trope-Namer Syndrome (after Jonny Quest), has a name associated with a German schoolyard rhyme about Arabia. The trope itself is actually about stereotypical depictions of India. Compare how Spaghetti and Gondolas was renamed from "Olive Garden" for a more indicative, universal title that would attract wicks. No usage mentioned, but this trope has been discussed a lot, so...
- Sleep Cute is supposed to mean a shot of two characters innocently sleeping together in close proximity, more often than not indicating a Ship Tease. However, due to the misleading name (which in itself is a snowclone of Meet Cute), it sometimes gets misused as "character looks cute when sleeping", which is defined by a Beautiful Dreamer. I guess this keeps
- Some Kind of Force Field: Title doesn't explain which aspect of a Force Field is involved, and is supposedly named after a stock phrase. No usage
- Stock Shoujo Bullying Tactics: Despite its name, the trope is not actually specific to Japanese works — going by the on-page examples, its usage in anime and manga isn't even exclusive to Shoujo. Previous TRS thread clocked out without any action taken. Since it had a previous TRS, I'm not sure what there is to say here.
- Tanuki: Supposed to be about a particular stereotype of the tanuki species in Japanese culture, but it's used for any representation of the real-life animal, whether or not it fits the stereotype. Renaming it to something like "Trickster Tanuki" would better emphasize the stereotype part. Keeps
- T-Word Euphemism: Doubly outdated title, referring to the deprecated practice of "Trope" as a title placeholder, and confusing when there are actual derogatory words that begin with "t". In addition, the preexisting term "minced oath" already covers this concept, among other euphemistic ways of replacing or referring to actual profanity. No usage mentioned, and I've never heard the term "minced oath"...
- The Tonsillitis Episode: Despite its name, the trope also covers wisdom tooth removal under the justification that it's an Evolving Trope. These two concepts might be different enough to split off, or similar enough to be merged into a general "Short-Term Medical Procedure Episode" trope. No usage mentioned, even if it makes a good point
- To the Batnoun!: Misleading title leads it to be confused with Hyperaffixation; TRS thread stalled out. Also, it seems to just be a Stock Phrase; perhaps it could be labeled as a Stock Shout-Out but it's not clear if it's notable enough to be its own trope. Maybe keeps despite also being a clocked-out thread
- Trojan Gauntlet: On Image Pickin', it was discovered that the page has a Creator Provincialism issue — the "Trojan" in the name refers to a brand of condom that's unknown outside the US, so the name ends up sounding like a reference to the Trojan Horse. The actual trope is "Embarrassing Condom Purchase." Example usage?
- "Uh-Oh" Eyes: Supposed to be a subindex, but there's no indication of that in the title; as a result, many have treated it as a trope. Keeps
- Vanilla Protagonist: Previously renamed from Designated Protagonist Syndrome because of complaining, but continues to attract complaining. In the new name's case, it's often used to complain about protagonists thought to be boring, when it's actually about protagonists who are intentionally less defined for the sake of making supporting characters stand out more. Its summary on the Audience Reactions index gave the wrong definition at one point, and the fact that it's indexed under Audience Reactions to begin with, rather than YMMV.Home Page, has also been questioned, since the character is objectively in the work, and the subjective part is whether the character does in fact help supporting characters stand out more.
A previous TRS thread was made, with a wick check demonstrating misuse to mean boring protagonists. The thread clocked out without any changes being made, despite support in favor of cleaning up complaining, but there was support for renaming; Enabling Protagonist was one suggestion given as a replacement name. Keeps, but is another "clocked thread" case. - Wild Goose Chase is supposed to be the highly specific trope that somebody discovers a tracker device (e.g. on his car) and attaches it to a random other car or object, thus making the signal useless in a funny way. Predictably, this gets misused for, well, what the phrase "Wild Goose Chase" normally means, or characters saying the phrase. The phrase should arguably be a redirect to Snipe Hunt, and this trope should be renamed. It appears to be not thriving either, which may be caused by the name not matching the content. Keeps
- You Bastard! refers to when the work calls out the audience for enjoying something. However, due to the vague title, it is sometimes misused for when a character calls another character a bastard, which fits more under You Monster!. And also I guess keeps
Angry babby
Worth noting that I added the Born in an Elevator entry and I did start a wick check for it as well— Born In An Elevator Wick Check
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Glad I was on the ball that day! 
I think I did add some of the flimsier ones though, like Entertainingly Wrong.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:45:48 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I felt like that was one of the best ones because you not only had a definite statement about how the wicks were used but also referenced how many of them there were. It definitely seemed more "objective" to me.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
There's been a lot of talk lately about how Tropes Needing TRS is getting too long and backed-up, as well as about how many of the tropes added might not even need TRS action at all. It was decided we should make a short-term project thread to clean out the page before we take any more drastic actions.
Some potential guidelines for what might need to be removed:
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 23rd 2022 at 1:49:23 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness