TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

WebVideo.Fistroman is a double of Creator.Fistroman

LightNovel.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Fourth Another Day is a double of LightNovel/TheBook_4thAnotherDay (and the latter has an underscorevin the address) fixed

edited 11th Oct '17 9:45:55 PM by jormis29

The Story That Never Was may be a duplicate of Reset Button Ending.

• Reset Button Ending: The plot of the work gets reset at the end of the work.
• The Story That Never Was: There's a twist at the end of the work that resets the plot.

There's a bit of nuance between them, but I'm not sure if that's really distinguishing. Someone in the draft of TSTNW argued that one was "after the conflict is over, everything gets reset" and the other was "the solution to the problem is to reset everything, leading to the same situation as All Just a Dream" (which is mentioned on Reset Button Ending, btw).

Tae Kwon Door just got launched. The name is terrible since it's 100% a synonym for Door Fu, which has already led to bad examples in the YKTTW itself.

I take blame on this, though. I pointed it out in TLP and don't check enough to see that OP responded. But their response doesn't hold up, because their defense is "well, Door Judo also exists." Aside from the fact that Door Judo is a bit different since like Politeness Judo, it's not using judo as a stand in for part of the name of a martial art, but rather as shorthand for "using someone's own force against them." But even if they all were perfect synonyms, that's... even worse.

edited 12th Oct '17 10:38:26 AM by Larkmarn

^ Larkmarn I gave you an entire week to reply to my comments on the YKTTW. I asked you the following question on 5/10-2017:

"Not trying to help my case. I'm trying to understand your point. Your point seems to be that everyone would know what Judo and Kung Fu is beyond 'two martial arts', would be able to correlate them to the Door Judo and Door Fu tropes as such, and also be able to infer that Tae Kwon Do doesn't correlate to Tae Kwon Door in the same way?"

Furthermore, I posted this yesterday, 11/10-2017:

"Larkmarn, if I don't hear from you within a day, I'm launching the trope. It's been a week, then."

Would you like to explain your point now?

edited 12th Oct '17 12:13:15 PM by Theharbo

... didn't I just do that? And yeah, I saw that you gave me time. That's why I said it's partially my fault for not checking TLP more frequently.

Your defense of Tae Kwon Door seems to be "well, it's synonymous to Door Fu, but so is Door Judo." Even assuming that to be the case (which it isn't, in my opinion), it's an argument that actually works against you since you're pointing out more ways that there can be misuse. And given the misuse going on in the TLP itself, that's pretty worrisome.

I think Tae Kwon Door should be sent back for a rename. It sounds exactly like a redirect to Door Fu, and the trope itself is so closely related to Door Judo and Door Fu that the joke is too good. It's too witty and not enough clear, imo. Start with something more clear and start from that.

^^ Not my point at all. My point is this:

You seem to be of the opinion that the average TV Tropes reader will not be able to distinguish Kung Fu, Judo, and Tae Kwon Do as being separate distinct forms of martial arts. That they will lump them all together as being the same thing. Am I to understand that your point is born of the worry that Viewers Are Morons and won't realize Door Judo, Door Fu, and Tae Kwon Door are three distinct tropes despite them being based off three distinct ways of combat?

edited 12th Oct '17 2:50:31 PM by Theharbo

No, you're assuming tropers are not going to assume that, given Tropes Are Flexible, Tae Kwon Door is a redirect to Door Fu.

It has nothing to do with actual Kung Fu or actual Tae Kwon Do.

edited 12th Oct '17 3:03:09 PM by WaterBlap

Is this the fights on a door, with a door, or slams the door one? Needs clarification, send it back for a rename.

Is it within the purview of this thread to debate whether or not a newly launched trope should be a No Real Life Examples Please article?

After reading the descriptions and examples of both pages, The Story That Never Was and Reset Button Ending seem different to me.

The former is, indeed, solving a conflict by changing the past to produce another present (meaning what the characters have gone through will never happen). The latter is about erasing some plot points after the conflict is over to make sure that Status Quo Is God; Time Travel seems to be optional, as some examples involve going back in time and some others rely on erasing the cast's memories... or mundane methods.

edited 12th Oct '17 5:34:34 PM by Gosicrystal

Not really. That's in the RL section maintenance thread.

"No, you're assuming tropers are not going to assume that, given Tropes Are Flexible, Tae Kwon Door is a redirect to Door Fu."

Am I misunderstanding Tropes Are Flexible? I always assumed it meant that the trope is not necessarily done using exactly what is prescribed. Like, for instance: Stepping-Stone Sword can be done with other weapons than swords in the same way that Tae Kwon Door can be done with things other than your standard garden-variety door.

That doesn't mean we start calling Stepping-Stone Sword, 'Stepping Stone Arrows', or 'Stepping Stone Spears' because of that, nor do we think it's a redirect to Stepping Stones in the Sky because of spectacle fighters hurling numbers of huge swords at you for you to Stepping Stone on.

So why would one think Tae Kwon Door is a redirect to Door Fu?

edited 13th Oct '17 12:22:58 AM by Theharbo

I think you're being deliberately obtuse by not seeing how people could conflate the name Tae Kwon Door with Door Fu or Door Judo. Door + name of martial art, given that none of them are massively descriptive, might as well all be the same thing. Since Tae Kwon Door is the least indicative of them all (it's a slamming door attack), it should be the first to get a rename. Accept it and stop pulling at threads to try and discount the crux of an argument.

Not being deliberately obtuse. If I knew how I would have already pulled the trope and sent it back to the launch pad.

I'm trying to understand the point people are making, but I'm not doing it to prevent a rename (quite evident it needs one at this point). I'm doing it so I understand where I went wrong and don't make the same mistake in the future.

So please - think of Hanlon's Razor before making assumptions, okay?

edited 13th Oct '17 1:30:17 AM by Theharbo

... okay. Take another look at Clear, Concise, Witty.

The name of Tae Kwon Door is, imo, an example of "Witty Concise Clear," where the name is too witty and not clear enough. The reason why it is not clear is that the name is very similar to another trope, to the point where people would intuitively expect it to be a redirect to Door Fu (or vise versa).

It's like if someone made a trope titled Purple Verse and tried to say that it was different from Purple Prose because of the differences between verse and prose. Most people would expect those tropes to be the same despite the differences in those real life things.

Nature Is Boring needs to be sent back. Its description doesn’t explain WHY characters think nature is boring, and there needs to collect more examples (so far only 5).

Ah! My problem was to view them all as equals, rather than a priority list. Understood.

"Priority list" is one way you could look at it. If you're looking at it on a first-come-first-serve basis. Door Judo was established nearly a decade ago, so people might expect Door Fu to be related to that, except it's easy to see the difference since most people would understand Door Judo (due to its time on the wiki). Meanwhile, Door Fu and Tae Kwon Door were created around the same time, so neither of them have been established enough to differentiate themselves on their names alone. So it's easier to just rename the latest one.

Should we cut Fanfic.The Changeling? I asked about it in the ZCE thread, with no response. There wasn't much improvement since; only one example is not zero context now, and it was added around the time of that post.

More than "created almost at the same time" - Tae Kwon Door sprung out of Door Fu's draft through the discussion of it and the only reason they didn't launch simultaneously was the naming dispute which resulted in the name going from "Showing Them The Door" to "Tae Kwon Door".

Door Fu joins Car Fu, Cane Fu, and other -Fu tropes involving combat while 'wielding' the object in question, however, so even if Tae Kwon Door was the first to launch I doubt we'd be changing Door Fu's name.

Question now is.. what do we call it? Damaging Door Slam is clear, concise, but is just as witless as a plank of wood.

edited 15th Oct '17 6:59:46 AM by Theharbo

Should we ask the Harry Potter fan fiction thread if anyone can help the page?

'Kay. I asked here.

edited 15th Oct '17 9:16:20 AM by WaterBlap

I can get behind that. If they can help flesh it out, that would be great.

I think Tae Kwon Door is a terrible name, but a decent trope. I think the opposite of Door Fu. We don't need a separate trope for every random object someone might adapt for use as a weapon. We already have Improvised Weapon.

Some variations of Improvised Weapon make sense as subtropes, like Car Fu and Cane Fu, which are real things (and hence, extremely common in fiction). But doors?... No. That way leads to Table Fu and Chair Fu and Bookcase Fu and Ottoman Fu and TV Fu and Loudspeaker Fu and Vacuum Cleaner Fu and Toaster Oven Fu, and... No.

My suggestion would be to send both tropes back to TLP. Tae Kwon Door to find a better name, and Door Fu to see if it's even a trope. And if Door Fu isn't a trope, then Tae Kwon Door might be able to use that name.

It's worth noting that Forklift Fu and Cloth Fu do exist and seem to be exactly the issue that's mentioned by Xtifr. There's also the problem of other Foo Fu tropes not falling in line with the stockphrase, such as Wire Fu actually being a special effect and Wok Fu actually being the setting of a fight scene.

Concerning Door Fu (and Foo Fu in general), it may be worth it to take it to TRS.