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Rename (alt titles 5/31): Prisoner Of Zenda Exit get usage counts

 1 Dragon Quest Z, Tue, 13th Mar '12 1:39:41 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
47 wicks, and 14 inbounds.

For a trope this common (the villain escapes to do evil another day), that is pathetic.

And the name doesn't help. It's not as though the villain in The Prisoner of Zenda is the only one who made an exit. There is also the hero leaving after the king is saved. Or the King's brother having a sort of exit (in the form of Redemption Equals Death). My point is the name is not indicative, and is not helping this trope.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 2 lebrel, Tue, 13th Mar '12 1:51:45 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
I'm not sure what this trope is supposed to be. It describes itself as "Villain Exit Stage Left with a flourish" and "Strictly the province of the Worthy Opponent". I think the problem is that Villain Exit Stage Left describes itself as "the villain (less often, a hero) will always get away in the most undignified and cowardly fashion imaginable", so people are trying to find a place for Villain Exit Stage Left where the exit is not undignified.

I'd say adjust the description on Villain Exit Stage Left and merge.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 3 Dragon Quest Z, Tue, 13th Mar '12 1:57:26 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Yeah, that trope is needlessly narrow (as in the point is the villain always escapes, not that it's glorious or undignified). I agree with merging.

edited 13th Mar '12 1:59:20 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
I thought this was the trope where the villain escapes by, like, jumping out the window.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
This trope is supposed to be an escape by leaping from a high place into water.
 
 6 lebrel, Tue, 13th Mar '12 5:52:57 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up] Really? That's awfully specific... But I suppose it could work. Perhaps a bit of a re-write, and definitely a different name.

edited 13th Mar '12 5:53:41 PM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 7 Spark 9, Tue, 13th Mar '12 6:44:37 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
I think that's two different things.

"Villain leaves in a dignified way" is one trope.

"Somebody escapes by jumping into water from a high place" is another trope.

Special trousers. Very heroic.
 8 lebrel, Tue, 13th Mar '12 6:53:00 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up] Reading the page again, I think he has it right; it's supposed to be about "leaps out of a window into a convenient lake or moat and swims away"; the discussion page from an earlier version says "The key to a Prisoner Of Zenda Exit is a leap from a high place into water."

But the examples are a mess; some are about jumping out a window (or off a roof, or some other context involving jumping) without the "swims away" angle, some seem to be about the Pre Escape One Liner (which should be on So Long, Suckers!). So if that's what the trope is about, it needs a good cleanup.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
It seems to have suffered some serious trope drift, not helped by tropers adding extraneous detail to the description that have muddied the waters.

I'll attempt a serious clean-up tonight; tightening the description and removing the examples that don't meet the high place/water/swim away criteria.
 
"Swims away" is probably a dubious qualifier. Jumping off a zeppelin and having a minion fly underneath to catch you at the last minute should count, for example.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 11 Deboss, Wed, 14th Mar '12 12:35:27 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I think the escaping part might be related to Soft Water? BTW, do we need to add a supertrope for villain escapes to be a recurring plot?
 12 Dragon Quest Z, Wed, 14th Mar '12 12:38:49 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Does it matter specifically how the villain escapes? Seriously, the villain gets away so that he can fight the heroes later. Does it matter whether he jumps out a window or into an escape pod?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Well it needs to matter in some way, or it would be a duplicate of Villain Exit Stage Left ("The villain escapes after being foiled").

edited 14th Mar '12 12:44:04 AM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
This is a reasonably common scene and worthy of its own trope. The 'swims away' may not be strictly necessary, but 'leap from from high place into water when cornered' (with the implication of a certain degree of style) is the essence of the trope.

edited 14th Mar '12 12:48:53 AM by foxley

 
I've attempted a clean-up.

I've hopefully made the 'high place/water' element more obvious in the description. I've expanded the examples I'm familiar with to emphasise the core element, and removed those examples that obviously don't apply.

Can someone who is familiar with the other examples see if they fit?
 
 16 Dragon Quest Z, Wed, 14th Mar '12 9:28:25 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"Well it needs to matter in some way, or it would be a duplicate of Villain Exit Stage Left ("The villain escapes after being foiled")."

Um, did you miss the second and third posts, where merging was mentioned as a possibility? Why make those separate? Why not just merge into a general trope about the villain always getting away?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 17 Spark 9, Wed, 14th Mar '12 9:38:09 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
"Jumping out of a high place to escape" is a trope. It doesn't have to be the villain who does that. It also doesn't necessarily have to end in water.

Anything else here appears to be already covered by Exit Villain Stage Left.

Special trousers. Very heroic.
Jumping from a high place to escape is No Escape but Down. This is a subtrope of that.
 
 19 Spark 9, Wed, 14th Mar '12 3:09:27 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up] Aha.

So everything on this page is covered by No Escape but Down or by Exit Villain Stage Left, and this page has a serious lack of wicks and inbounds and an obscure name.

So let's move the examples off and cut it; there's no need for this page.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
I still think there's a legitimate trope here.
 
someone
If this is a trope, needs a specific definition. Is it "villain escapes by jumping into water"? Is it really important for them to do this so they could face the hero again?

edited 14th Mar '12 5:46:27 PM by ThatHuman

something
 22 Deboss, Wed, 14th Mar '12 7:08:46 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Well, it's most likely No Escape but Down, Exit Villain Stage Left and Never Found the Body.
That it is a combination of those things should be enough to make it its own trope.
 
 24 Louie W, Thu, 15th Mar '12 6:49:33 AM from Babycowland
Loser
Index Etc. (8)

Leaping Into a Body of Water as a Means of Escape (20)

Escapes in General (10)

Other (1)

Unclear/Little Context (9)

Unless I made a significant error in this wick check, it looks like most people are using this trope to refer to an escape by jumping into a body of water. That being said, it seems like there is some confusion as to what the trope is really about since Prisoner of Zenda Exit is also being used to refer to villains escaping in general.

There may actually be a pretty good case for the idea that the trope is being underused because of the current name as many of its uses explicitly refer to The Prisoner of Zenda. I think that may indicate that the current title is a barrier to people who are not already familiar with that work.

edited 15th Mar '12 6:50:07 AM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
someone
[up] Perhaps the name is also confusing because it's referring to The Prisoner of Zenda novel, but not the eponymous prisoner himself?
something

Alternative Titles: Prisoner Of Zenda Exit
8th May '12 2:58:12 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
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