- Altenatively, it'll be the Kids, Trolls, the Exile, Jack Noir and the inhabitants of Derse and Prospit vs. the Felt, D c Scratch and L[]rd English. And it'll be awesome.
- There'd be no reason to, as in the new universe Trolls would have grown up on the relative paradise planet of Earth. With therapists.
- And that would be like eight more chapters which at this point is a genuinely horrifying prospect.
- There'd be no reason to, as in the new universe Trolls would have grown up on the relative paradise planet of Earth. With therapists.
- The post-Scratch version of Jade/Jake's island has been shown to have Lusi Naturae, (I mean, FRIGHTENING FAUNA), which could theoretically include a Mother Grub.
- Any Mother Grub that isn't tended by trolls tends to die when alone, such as Kanaya's demonstrated, thus Jossed.
- Plus, there appear to be gray hands in this page.
- Besides, how else would the main characters react with the Post-Scratch session?
- By going to the session like they outright said they would. She mentions multiple parents... hmmm...
- Second theory is jossed. It's a new troll entirely, UU.
- No it isn't; Exile terminals don't work that way.
- Jossed: Only 4 Trolls go to the Alpha Session, and Kanaya is attempting to murder Gamzee.
- Given the importance of "2x3 Day", it's probably The Condesce and the trolls.
- Or just the Condesce and whomever the 13th troll is. Jane is most likely just a bit of a snob.
- Jossed: More time on Alpha Earth has shown that excepting the Condesce, there are no aliens.
- Un-Jossed (at least partially) by [S] Jane: Enter.
- Re-Jossed by Dirk's account.
- Or just the Condesce and whomever the 13th troll is. Jane is most likely just a bit of a snob.
- UU is in her own session, and the Alpha Session's mythology has heavily suggested there are only 8 players. Nothing to suggest otherwise has even been hinted at. Besides there are 4 elements not used in the Alpha Session, and Doom is merely one of them. No need for them to show up.
- The Alpha session's mythology doesn't seem to account for the incoming trolls, only knowing that there will be 8 player planets.
- It cannot be Fedora Freak, as Word of God names him as the Gent of Piss.
- The Alpha session's mythology doesn't seem to account for the incoming trolls, only knowing that there will be 8 player planets.
- All joking aside, Jossed.
- 1. Jade makes tadpole universal frog and places it inside an 8-ball for safe keeping.
- 2. Said 8-ball falls into volcano.
- 3. A small leap in reasoning leads to the frog little jade recovers in the past being the same frog that she would later create in the future.
- So the key to making a universe frog stable is combining it with itself, honestly not that much weirder than anything else so far.
- 4. Alpha session's sun and the frog are the same color (assuming blinding white light is still considered a color)
- 5. Bec zaps said frog to death for no appearent reason, which in turn dooms Alpha session's universe.
- Also this means that three different universes have been destroyed by the power of a Guardian (seriously is that a joke title or what?)
- Bec killed the white frog so as to interfere with its personal timeline. By doing so, he ensured its causal entanglement, ensuring that it would not be appearified but paradox slimified instead, thus allowing for the creation of the Genesis frog. This still leaves the question of where the white frog was sendificated from, however.
- Also this means that three different universes have been destroyed by the power of a Guardian (seriously is that a joke title or what?)
- The frog Jade found is not the Genesis Frog. The frog Jade made is also not the Genesis Frog (yet); that has to apparently be placed in the final version of Skaia and since Skaia no longer exists. Said small leap in reasoning makes no logical sense at all. Also the sun is the same color; it's called artistic effect, much like how the Troll's sun really isn't a giant heat vortex like it was shown when it blinded Terezi.
- At any rate it is still doomed, but because it's the product of a faulty universe more than anything listed above.
- Sburb exists in the universe, therefore the universe is doomed by default.
- I thought Sburb just dooms a planet, not a whole universe.
- Sburb means English gets into a Universe which means it ultimately is destroyed. In the only known session where he wasn't able to enter, that is true that only Alternia was destroyed, but the Scratch brought him into it.
- After rereading the comic very recently, I can say with certainty that it is never said that Sburb's existence = Lord English's existence. The only mention of the conditions for which universes he picks is a glitch in the game where the players are not ectobiologically created in their own session.
- That condition doesn't apply to any session at all actually. The glitch that hampered the first Troll Session is completely unknown as of yet, the fact that they weren't created in their own session is a symptom more than anything else. At any rate, the WMG is Jossed, due to the existence of GCat it can be inferred that Lord English will be involved at some point given both sessions seen so far with First Guardians were doomed, albeit the Kid's Session indirectly, via Jack.
- Wait, what? Didn't Karkat say every universe has a first guardian? Did the existence of Bec have anything whatsoever to do with Lord English?
- Karkat doesn't know everything. Regardless, the one known iteration of Lord English was dependent on the First Guardian, and Jack Noir would not have existed in his current form were it not for Bec and English's machinations via Doc. So while there's not someone directly saying in comic that First Guardians serve English, it's pretty apparent that they do.
- It's very likely that that tadpole will be the Genesis Frog, though. From the flash update where grimdark Rose looks through the castle:
"Though we adore Him we shall never enjoy His beauteous Croak. We spill our blood on acres of black and white so they may cross the yellow yard. At last in Skaia's reflection through broken glass He may find the pond in which He's meant to squat."- Here "Skaia's reflection" probably means the Skaia of the Alpha session, and for him to "cross the yellow yard," he had to exist before then, so he's most likely the tadpole that fell into the Forge.
- No, that flashy tadpole was the last one needed to complete the Genesis Frog genome, not the Genesis frog itself- the one she had to strike a deal with her Denizen to remember how to get. Also, he doesn't have to already exist to be able to cross the yellow yard- notice it says "so they may cross the yellow yard," referring to Jade and John (who will presumably help create a Genesis Frog in the Alpha session).
- While your point about "they" being ambiguous is valid, that tadpole is clearly the genesis frog. Kanaya mentions that the tadpole for the Genesis Frog is considerably larger than a normal tadpole. The genesis tadpole is nearly half Jade's size. The penultimate frog you're thinking of looks quite different, lacking the weird filigree pattern and having very different eyes. The mystery of where that frog was sendificated from is still due to be solved.
- Human babies certainly don't look like adults when they grow up! The tadpole seemingly will age to become B. Slick.
- At any rate it is still doomed, but because it's the product of a faulty universe more than anything listed above.
- Rose's exposition Jossed this directly.
- No they're from the Session per normal rules though they aren't exiles. Jossed.
- Jossed.
On the other hand, there are eight replacement players on their way, of which at least four are already God Tier, including four planets and a second battlefield. To them, it'd be like a New Game Plus! Alpha Jack wouldn't know what hit him, leaving only Bec Noir to deal with.
- As a note, I would say that he has not already killed the Derse dreamers. Upon killing Dream-Jane, the narration said 'Two down, two to go.'
- Pretty much Jossed.
- The Kids aren't planning on going to Earth at all. While they can't exactly stop the meteor, there's nothing stopping the Kids and Trolls from jumping off it, and John and Jade have been heavily suggested to crash through a wall related to Jake. Roxy's portals are distinctly different than the fenestrated walls used by Jack and by proxy, Andrew and the Harleys, as they are linked to one location (The Furthest Ring), while the fenestrated walls can switch their viewpoint and link to another universe entirely. It seems that if anyone is going to Earth, it'll be John and Jade's group, and that's not even a sure thing.
- Okay, so John and Jade come in through Jake's window, when he's probably still on Earth because he's probably entering last still. And then if Rose Seer-of-Light's that she and Dave should stay on the meteor and go through the Skaian defense portal and end up on Earth, I'd guess he'd probably listen. Not sure if all of the trolls would, but Dave probably. I'm not saying that this is the most likely thing to happen (putting the 'W' in WMG), but it's within the realm of possibility, doesn't contradict anything (I think), and explains (partially) why the Alpha kids would be stuck in two different time periods. Also because the Beta kids haven't actually seemed to have made any plans of how to meet up again.
- Jade's got to place planets around somewhere and Dave has time powers. Seems to me that if the Beta Lands are there, then Dave can just do his time thing and find Jade and John pretty easily! Part of the problem with Dave and Rose entering via a meteor though is that they would have to fly down from the meteor, meet Dirk or Roxy, and enter that way, because Dirk and Roxy live very far apart with no (known anyways) landmarks to guide Rose and Dave from one place to the other, and Rose's Light powers might not grant enough guidance. Granted, Bro flew to meet Dave's meteor, but he's Bro.
- Finally 'Jossed: Red Miles are beginning to appear above Future Earth, indicating it will be destroyed shortly.
- The Trolls are not considered to be part of the Alpha Session as far as we know; UU never mentioned them and the Frog Temple has only 8 lands for the Beta and Alpha Kids.
- Jossed. Prospit and Derse have been show to have two dreamself towers each and no prototyping towers.
- The only problem of the theory would be how to get the trolls into God Tiers, what with their planets and Quest Beds having all been destroyed.
- That and Aradia and Kanaya are alive while Sollux is dead.
- Mom Lalonde's book series implies none of the trolls will survive the Alpha Session.
- The points in the WMG itself have been Jossed. The mythos of the Alpha Session have been utterly devoid of any mention of the Trolls too.
- Meaning that Aradia and Kanaya will die (again) or otherwise be left behind before entry, but Sollux survived the flight to the Green Sun.
- We also need to factor in the first part of their titles. Karkat can't be in because Dave is already a Knight; Terezi can't be in because Rose is already a Seer. Also, the terminal that Rose found way back in Act 3 had 8 planets. I find it unlikely that the session will include trolls.
- It might be possible for UU to join the session somehow- that way there will be 13 kids from 4 different sessions. (Assuming UU isn't actually evil.)
- Possibly Jossed, Sollux intends to stay behind with Aradia. Only way for this to work is for UU to replace him, or for Kanaya to somehow change aspect.
- Jossed: The Trolls do not count as players from Sburb's perspective, as the entire mythology of the Alpha Session has been completely devoid of any mention of them. Moreover, Kanaya intends to kill Gamzee, and Mom Lalonde's book series implies the trolls will not survive the Alpha Session.
- Except that the Bunny is a pretty clear indicator that they aren't free of P-Space at all.
- If UU is to be trusted, Jossed.
- Uh, the Post-Scratch session doesn't HAVE a Tumor. That was the whole point.
- Well it would've had if the Battlefield didn't go and blow up.
- No it wouldn'tve. The session was preordained to be a Void Session. There's no indication they would have a Tumor, even if the Battlefield had remained intact. There's no indication Tumors are an ordinary part of a normal Null Sessions either for that matter. Hussie's comments about the peculiarity of the Beta Human Session seems to indicate Tumors are abnormal.
- Moreover, the Post-Scratch Session is destined to succeed due to the involvement of the Pre-Scratch Kids. The Tumor, even if it WASN'T an abnormality, would only show up in an impossible-to-win session, since it takes the place of the 'infinite creative potential' inside Skaia.
- Well it would've had if the Battlefield didn't go and blow up.
- Trolls from the point of view of the game don't seemingly count, although the Beta Kids do.
- Jossed unless Sollux changes his mind and rejoins Rose, Dave, and the other trolls.
- Jossed
- Jossed unless Sollux changes his mind and rejoins Rose, Dave, and the other trolls.
- Partially confirmed at least with Jane & Jake outright stated to be the heroes of Hope & Life and with Dirk & Roxy heavily hinted to be the heroes of Heart & Void, respectively.
- If this is true, a likely consequence would be that Jane (probably) will only clone four babies in the ectobiology lab (after scanning the God-Tier kids and mixing their genes), since the ancestors were already created in another session.
- The Kids are going to the Session, not Earth. Moreover; Alpha John (and perhaps Jade) is seemingly dead on Earth and that makes no sense in light of his Immortality.
- Jossed: All of the items (excepting the Sassacre tome) are in-universe duplicates, and the Guardians are unrelated to the four heroes of the beta session.
- While it's extremely likely that Jane's "slightly abridged" copy of Sassacre's is a duplicate, it's too soon to completely close the door on everything else.
- The Bunny is a repeat, the hat is a repeat, the Book is separate, Cal presumably is separate, and the rest of the items were things like pistols, and Mutie, which haven't been seen yet.
- Jane was being overly poetic to refer to the fact that she's a bit of a rich snob. Also Jake lives completely alone; Jade had uranium all over the place which is arguably even more dangerous.
- Betty Crocker advertisements have subliminal messages straight out of They Live!. This isn't a Crapsaccharine World, this is a Villain World.
- Also, the Mars Colony poster shows the Imperial Condesce's flagship in the sky above Mars.
- Jossed: Pretty much everything we've seen so far shows that it may be a bit more crazy, but it's more or less the same. While propaganda is spewed by most of Crockercorp, who holds enough leverage to get Guy Fieri appointed Chief Justice, Strider and Lalonde's reactions show that most people are Genre Savvy enough to pick up that it is Obviously Evil.
- We don't know at all what the general public thinks. All of the kids are poor examples of the average Joe, and it's pretty clear that Crockercorp controls the media.
- This is even more the case after [S] Jane: Enter.
- Jossed: Pretty much everything we've seen so far shows that it may be a bit more crazy, but it's more or less the same. While propaganda is spewed by most of Crockercorp, who holds enough leverage to get Guy Fieri appointed Chief Justice, Strider and Lalonde's reactions show that most people are Genre Savvy enough to pick up that it is Obviously Evil.
- Jossed: They're going to outright meet up.
- Both Jane and Jake use very outdated slang by our standards, but it would have been in vogue during the youths of their Beta counterparts, Nanna Egbert and Grandpa Harley.
- Lalonde and Strider don't talk like that, though. Possibly jossed with Jake's admission that "Im not really abreast of the raddest jargon that the cool kids toss about these days. Maybe because i live alone on an island?"
- And worth noting that what Jake does use is rather Sophisticated as Hell.
- Lalonde and Strider don't talk like that, though. Possibly jossed with Jake's admission that "Im not really abreast of the raddest jargon that the cool kids toss about these days. Maybe because i live alone on an island?"
- The fates of the kids are often deliberate reversals of their ancestors' fates (Mindfang kills Redglare, Dualscar kills the Dolorosa, Summoner fated to kill Mindfang, etc). Given that the Handmaid was apparently destined to be killed by the Condesce, and given how strongly it's been implied that Crocker is either the Condesce or is thematically linked to her, it'd be appropriate for Aradia to face off against her in the new universe.
- Jane's recipe modus hinted at a possible way to create a new Matriorb (reverse-engineering Dad's hat), which would be a neat way for Kanaya to perpetuate the troll race despite Eridan's best efforts.
- An obvious objection is that UU refers to the 'legendary octet of mutual progenitoriety'. One possible way around this might be that the trolls created the original Beta Session, which makes them 'progenitors' of the original kids and, by extension, the Alpha kids too. Admittedly, it seems likely that this is over thinking things, but you can never be quite sure with Homestuck.
- "Mutual Progenitoriety" as in the eight that allowed for alpha session to happen? Well there are a number of ways that the four kids fit that definition as for the trolls. Karkat and Kanaya made the kids flawed universe, Gamzee ended up making the flaw but then who Aradia or Terezi have either of them influnced the creation of the alpha universe?
- Mutual progenitoreity refers to how the Beta kids and the Alpha crew are respectively the each other's ectobiological parents.
- And thus, presumably Dave and Jade will be the new session's Time and Space heroes.
- "Mutual Progenitoriety" as in the eight that allowed for alpha session to happen? Well there are a number of ways that the four kids fit that definition as for the trolls. Karkat and Kanaya made the kids flawed universe, Gamzee ended up making the flaw but then who Aradia or Terezi have either of them influnced the creation of the alpha universe?
- Jossed as Aradia stays at the Green Sun.
- Jossed on many levels: Andrew has confirmed via Word of God that a 48 player session created the Troll Universe, the Kid's session was barren not due to not having enough players, but because of flaws inherent in the Universe that produced the Tumor, and the Trolls do not count as players from the perspective of the Alpha Session, as they are not mentioned in it's mythology at all.
- That was just a comment on the Troll's session.
- Maybe. Maybe not. Never count out a Chekhov's Gun in Homestuck.
- So far Jossed for Jane. Three more to go.
- Jossed by Rose.
As for why Roxy and Dirk won't try and revive their parents...
- Jossed: Tavris didn't remotely reflect anything about Nannasprite.
- Also, Jade/Karkat and Dave/Terezi.
- Technically speaking, Jade and Feferi have met face to face. Well, maybe only from Feferi's persepctive.
- Kids and trolls have already met in dreambubbles yep. Also shipping, please keep off the WMG! Too much fighting.
- Seems to actually be inverted.
- Scratches are done to make a game winnable; that does not necessarily entail making them easier. The Troll Sessions aren't comparable, as the difficulty of the Pre-Scratch Session is unknown, while the Human Sessions don't even face the same challenges, with the Pre-Scratch Session revolving more around combat, while the Post-Scratch Session as of yet has none.
- Except we saw John spawn his team and their respective ancestors so Lord English has not actually glitched up the kid's session at all, their session is barren but not doomed.
- Troll session 2 was made specifically to do a better job than session 1. But the trolls have pretty much said that the kids are doing a better job playing the game than they did. Their time player is better (if body count and doomed timelines is the yardstick being used), the frog job isn't being rushed and they are actually paying attention to the lore and the riddles.
- Assuming J is in fact from the rebooted human session (as is fairly likely) we already know this is Jossed. He mentions actors that we know and doesn't seem especially blood thirsty. Remember, the kids have done in a day what it took the Trolls nearly a month to do (make the Genesis Frog, reach the top of their echeladder, etc) so it seems that Humans are already way better at the game than Trolls.
- Since Aradia was forced against her will to become the handimaid, and the scratch is technically a time based event, the time player could get left behind, for d0c scratch to recruit for English.
- That was NOT Aradia.
- We outright saw the Kids cause the Scratch; if this theory is true then it's an infinite loop which is unlikely as hell.
- It's already been established that the entire setting is a Timey-Wimey Ball, not to mention that Andrew has tossed RedHerrings at the audience before, so why exactly would it be outside the realm of possibility?
- Infinite loop? Don't you mean a DOUBLE MOBIUS REACHAROUND?
- This is also not the first time Earth's Sburb session has been scratched. Being a record, the Scratch keeps skipping back and forth between the Kids and Guardians sessions everytime changing something to help make a successful session. This could be the second, third, fourth or more than likely the 413th (and final) time it's been scratched. The Troll's scratched 1025 times before succeeding until Jack showed up. (Signing this for I Knew It! purposes later, Pretzel Boy 11-21-11)
- Well everyone can also see how Pretzel Boy is incorrect for 2 reasons: 1) The Trolls canonically created the Beta Universe so the Alpha Universe will not Scratch and 2) If UU is to be trusted, the Alpha Session results in victory, so the entire theory above is Jossed.
- 1) There's nothing that says the trolls created the Beta timeline, only the kids' universe. 2) We don't quite know enough about UU to say we can trust him/her quite yet.
- If infinite loops are your problem, then maybe I should direct you to the fact that the Beta!Session was scratched because of the presence of The Bunny/Liv Tyler, who was built in the Alpha!Timeline. If the Beta!Session scratched into the Alpha!Timeline, then that's an infinite loop right there!
- Counterpoint to the WMG in it's premise: Nanna and the rest of the Guardians are completely different entities from the Alpha Kids. They're simply part of the Ancient Conspiracy or were informed of it by Betty Crocker. However, the idea that the Alpha session will Scratch into the Beta Session again, causing a loop, is impossible to confirm or deny, but comes off as rather silly since it would be stupid from a writing perspective, trapping the players in a cycle, and turning Homestuck into a Downer No Ending.
- The theory does not assume there is an infinite scratch loop to begin with (that started with the initial joss attempt). The Signless had "memories" from his pre-scratch life even though he was a different entity; the idea that the guardians could have similar memories is plausible.
- The theory does assume a loop in that the Guardians are remembering memories from a past session, meaning the Beta session we initially saw would have to be at least the third iteration of a human session, moreover Doc outright states that the Signless was an oddity, so his memories are probably a trait unique to him and him alone. Jossed anyways due to an oversight. The Alpha Session has no means of Scratching at all; none of the new players are Heroes of Time, and the Beat Mesa has already been used, so the Scratch cannot be carried out a second time.
- As I'm the one who came up with the theory, I can confirm that the theory assumes that the Beta!Guardians, save Dad, would have memories from their Alpha!Iterations as players, just like the Troll ancestors were the players in their pre-scratch session. The theory makes presumptions about neither a Pre-Alpha iteration nor a scratch-loop, as you suggest.
- Jossed, however, because the Beat Mesa issue is a totally valid counterpoint, as tardy as it is. Nothing to say about that unless some Weird Plot Shit comes up.
- The problem is that the Alpha Session from the point of view of the Beta Session takes place in the future, and the idea that people could remember from the future is kinda silly, even considering weird time shit already taking place, so the more natural conclusion is the loop, thus the third iteration. The entire mythology of the Alpha and Beta sessions have been geared towards one following the other, so there's no indication of this unknown Gamma session. Besides, Alpha and Beta apply to basically the version of Sburb, and game testing typically never enters a Gamma testing phase (the term usually used is Open Beta).
- Not sure what point you're trying to make when you've already jossed the theory with the Beat Mesa issue, but okay... What "future" are you talking about? The theory assumed the Alpha session came first, and the Alpha!Guardians (save Dad, who doesn't count anyway) are all older than their Beta counterparts. Remembering the future is not an issue for the theory. Thus, the loop issue is a hasty assumption more than anything else. As far as calling it a "Gamma" version, I got that off the Obvious Beta page, which indeed labels the late testing phase as either "Open Beta" or "Gamma," so moot point.
- Replay / rewatch "[S] Seer: Descend". It makes it pretty apparent that the Alpha Session follows the Beta Session. As for the loop; well that was a mistake I got from skimming and then didn't have the pride to reread things completely until just now.
- The theory does not assume there is an infinite scratch loop to begin with (that started with the initial joss attempt). The Signless had "memories" from his pre-scratch life even though he was a different entity; the idea that the guardians could have similar memories is plausible.
- Confirmed in principle, but Jossed in particulars via a mistaken assumption: the critical factor is a Hero of Time, not the Scratch mechanism. Aradia's mechanism was never seen, but that doesn't mean it does not exist. Moreover, the Alpha session is a very unusual and probably even unique session.
- I always thought that giant metronome thing was Aradia's "Beat Mesa". Keep in mind if a Metronome, it would be used to keep a "beat". Note that Aradia's time traveling orbitals are based on it, Dave's are based on Beat Mesa. It appears to be something that changes to match the player/session.
- Jossed: English's calling card is a session being forced to scratch due to not being able to win the game naturally. The calling card existed in the Beta Session, not the Alpha. The agent of English is his direct pawn.
- Though the symptom of the calling card, players not being born in their session, is present. Rose implies that's naturally a product of a Scratch though, and not necessarily related to English.
- Jossed: The Frog Temple is just a building; the mythology of the entire session itself revolves around an 8 player session. The Frog Temple reflects that.
- Jossed.
- Jossed.
- This troper will go further and think the kids will hit the Reset Button on the entire trolls' entire universe. However, rather than create an alternate timeline, it will be more of an Eternal Recurrence scenario, allowing for changes that stick.
- With the revelation that the Scratch is a really big Reset Button, this suddenly seems more likely. The kids will not make a Scratch on their own universe, but somehow transfer the effects to the Trolls' universe. (This would explain why Trollian is unable to view anything after the Scratch occurs, because their timeline is reset. If the Scratch only occurred in the Kids' universe it wouldn't have the same effect on Trollian). It would not just bring them back to life, but also Set Right What Once Went Wrong which would include such things as Eridan not being a jerk, Gamzee not being crazy, and Vriska not being a BLUH BLUH HUGE BITCH (Yeah, I know, the latter sounds impossible). Also: The kids would advise the trolls' through their reset session just as the trolls' advised them (only the kids would be more helpful), making another instances of the great Mobius Double Reacharound.
- All of this shit is Jossed. The trolls are DEAD but Kanaya is fine.
- First, the kids will find some way to make it to this reset universe post scratch. They will then take the corresponding roles from their own Guardians and become the new kids' Guardians: Jade will become Grandma (Seeing as Jade's Penpal has been said to be her grand-child, this fits); John will become either Dad or Grandpa depending if he takes the role of his own Dad, who was his adoptive father, or Nanna, who was his genetic mother; Rose will become Mom; Dave will become Bro. They will all try to be better guardians than their own, and will try to find the interest of their "kids". Unfortunately they will end up making the same mistakes, not able to distinguish subconscious ideas, and the roles will come full circle.
- Jossed, the Kids are entering the rebooted Incipisphere, not the universe itself. Likewise, what about the surviving trolls?
- On the other hand, if they DON'T escape the Scratch's temporal effects (and I'm not convinced all the kids will escape the Scratch, especially since one of them has to die just to set off the Green Sun)...
- Jossed.
- The fact that it's a beta is unimportant, Sburb only functions as a minimal interface and a portal to the Incipisphere, where the real game is.
- Jossed/confirmed(It's Homestuck this was bound to happen). Are the trolls in beta? No. Were they in beta? unknown but there was a hard reset. Is the scratch caused by a game breaking bug? Yes by Jack interupting their session, yes by Jack being created in the first place by their own actions which they only did because Jack already existed, yes by their session existing at all because of Lord English's meddling and probably also yes because of the kids joining their two sessions after the reset even though that hasn't happened yet. May need new terminology at this point. Jossfirmed? Hussied?
- Jossed in the original WMG though; the bug was not because Sgrub was flawed.
Doc Scratch mentions the idea of circumstantial simultaneity here, while examining the doomed timeline where Vriska fights Jack. Somehow, the idea seems a bit too important to be regulated to a doomed timeline, since Scratch mentions that similar events will lead up to his death. It's not known whether the troll's equivalent to the Beat Mesa survived Jack's rampage, but if it did, they might make an attempt to reset their universe in order to unbork everything that was borked by Jack's appearance.
This, of course, is the event that leads to Jack entering the troll's session in the first place, as resetting both games at the same time causes them to connect. As Doc Scratch said, Jack's departure didn't have anything to do with the scratch. At least, not the one the kids cause.
- Jossed by [S] Cascade (if not before)
- The universes and the sessions responsible or spawned from them are independent (factors of 'real space' whereas sessions are part of Paradox Space). Jade brought most of the Kid's session with her as she escaped between fourth walls, while in her miniature planet collection the scratch completed itself.
- Outright Jossed by later in Act 6. Skaia created the post-Scratch session by changing the destination of the meteors.
- "You would eventually come to realize that the two teams were playing in the same session all along" has yet to be called back, you just know it's coming.
- Why would it? It had all the importance it needed when it was first brought up.
- Even with the post-Scratch characters, the only way for this to work out is for one of Aradia and ghost!Sollux to rejoin the others somehow, both if UU doesn't count (unless one of the dead trolls gets revived somehow).
- Jossed though; every indication of the mythology of the Alpha Session revolves around 8 players.
- Jossed.
- Jossed by itself for that matter...as their scratch is what sent Bec Noir to the trolls, ergo it can't also undo his being sent to them...unless they ALSO performed a scratch...
- We don't know how a Scratch resets the universe exactly. It's been previously stated that the Green Sun has the mass of both universes, so in that sense they still "exist". The Scratch may have reset part of the Green Sun into a new universe. We can then guess that...
- Keep in mind the Scratch is odd; given that there can be multiple sessions per universe, a Scratch may make a duplicate universe so the other sessions don't reset.
- And given that part of the Genesis Frog holding the universe escaped Jack's destruction, its regeneration in some fashion seems much more likely.
- Keep in mind the Scratch is odd; given that there can be multiple sessions per universe, a Scratch may make a duplicate universe so the other sessions don't reset.
- This appears to be pretty much jossed.
- We don't know if this makes any sense, and in fact all evidence is to the contrary.
- Jossed via a misunderstanding of Act 6. The ~ATH program is not the same as Sollux's, curses have been revealed to be the will of Paradox Space, and Dirk and Roxy aren't even threatened by the same threat as Jane or Jake. Jake for one is threatened apparently by a volcanic eruption, while Dirk and Roxy presumably will need to enter because of increasing attacks from the Empress.
- And Dirk's exposition directly jossed this one.
- The WMG itself is flawed, but due to Red Miles appearing above Future Earth, it is in fact doomed.
- And Dirk's exposition directly jossed this one.
- Not necessarily. Certain steps of the quest will make-do for echeladder growth. The series of tombs on each planet should provide enough environmental puzzles and challenges to suffice, and actually might work out better for some (especially Jane, who has no known combat experience, and would likely just let Lil' Sebastian fight instead- receiving no credit as she doesn't have the Bunnykind strife specibus).
- What just hit me is that when Jade entered, she was the weakest member of the group; in contrast, when Jake enters, he will probably initially be the second strongest, and would likely climb his echeladder the fastest in this manner due to his love of tombs.
- Jossed. Remember John and Tavros have been shown to gain experience outside of combat, Tavros getting it from puzzles apparently.
- Except the art for the song clearly depicts the Kids.
- The track art for Volumes 7 and 8 were not produced by the music team, so they shouldn't be used to divine the artists' intent for the song.
- As far as I know the Music Team picks fanart to go with the song.
- I understand that while they may choose who draws the art, they don't tell them what to draw. Thus, we get a situation where songs like Even in Death and Judgment Day, arrangements of Dave and Aradia's leitmotifs, have Rose and John in their album art.
- Actually in the vast majority of cases the art is already drawn, and they just contact the fanartist for use in the album. For instance just offhand, Mayor Maynot had it's art drawn over a year before it was actually put in the album.
- At any rate Jossed; Andrew does not reveal spoilers to the music team, even integral members like Radiation. Moreover, the Alpha Kids have the same instruments as the Beta Kids.
- Though the song was later used for a flash about Dirk and the rest of the Alpha Kids.
- The track art for Volumes 7 and 8 were not produced by the music team, so they shouldn't be used to divine the artists' intent for the song.
- This is Jossed because this is factually not how the Scratch works AT ALL. The two sets of kids and their counterparts are no more connected than Spades Slick and Bec Noir. They are two distinct instances of the same individual with no connection beyond being identical as infants, and having nascent superpowers. Obviously some of their personalities are similar, but they've still got distinct differences. Grandma English and Jade in particular are very different.
- Jossed. Jake's chumhandle is golgothasTerror.
- Completely Jossed
- At least for the kids. U's might be used for UU's fellow "cheer" players if there's any more of them.
- Confirmed, but the original WMG is still jossed.
- Completely Jossed
- Jane: Seb - pre entry; Dead Poppop - post entry.
- Can't prototype the Bunny, as it has to be broken to complete time loops.
- Also, Jane didn't prototype it with anything pre entry (though AR tried to prototype it with Poppop).
- Jake: ? - pre entry; Brobot - post entry.
- Lalonde: a four eyed cat and a vizard doll - pre entry.
- Bro: Tiny Maplehoof - pre entry; Auto Responder - post entry.
- Incidentally, this also leaves two open slots for GCat.
- It's not really as bad as it sounds. By the time the kids manage to beat Jack, they should have no problem with another opponent od his caliber.
- They might do the sane thing and prototype GCat post-entry. This would have the benefits of a First Guardian sidekick with none of the problems.
- I am of the theory/hope that one of them will prototype WV post-entry, assuming the meteor gets to the session in time. Though it will hopefully not be Jake who prototypes him, because then he'd probably try to eat himself.
- Similar to above, I am of the theory/hope that some version of Karkat will be prototyped. I think it would be a nice callback to the Jadesprite incident, as well as finally giving him a chance at a kismesissitude.
- Dirk and Roxy both wanted to play the game to somehow revive their respective Guardians, however. It's possible they might just prototype Post-scratch Dave and Rose.
- Above are Jossed; the Black Ring and Derse and Prospit have all been seen, and it seems the Alpha Session will not be able to Prototype anything; or at least if they do, they'll have no influence on the session.
- Does Jake have Alpha!Jade's remnants lying around anywhere?
- Not that we know of.
- He has her ashes in an urn.
- Not that we know of.
- Tentatively Jossed. Poppop Crocker's remains are floating out in space around Earth after [S] Jane: Enter. Unless his severed arm is still lying around and is used, it's probably not going to happen at this point.
- Post-Entry prototyping via a variety of means is still possible.
- Given we haven't seen the arm since Jane captchalogued it, it is probably still in her Sylladex. And given Nanna's ashes were enough for John's sprite, Poppop's arm should be enough for Jane's.
- But sadly, this one has been Jossed at Tavros and Vriska's great expense.
- Though not completely yet. We still have yet to see Jake's sprite.
- And Dirk or Roxy's sprite could full well be prototyped with Poppop's arm or body (considering that in the future he might have fallen back to earth).
- With the beginning of Act 6 Act 5, Jake's sprite has been revealed to have been prototyped with the corpses of Eridan and Sollux. Considering Jane's Sprite was prototyped with Tavros and Vriska's corpses, it may well me that Roxy and Dirk's sprites will be prototyped with the four other post-scratch trolls corpses. My assumption is that that the other sprites will be Aradia-Feferi and Equius-Nepeta. Tavros and Vriska were matesprites, Eridan and Sollux were kismesiss, Nepeta and Equius were morails, and I believe Aradia and Feferi were part of a auspistice relationship with Sollux as the in between. It is most likely that Equius-Nepeta sprite would belong to Dirk (considering his similarities to Equius), and Aradia-Feferi sprite would belong to Roxy.
- Revealed to be the Land of Crypts and Helium.
- Jossed names: Land of Gum and Shoes
- Revealed to be Land of Pyramids and Neon, but it's Roxy's, not Dirk's.
- Jossed names: Land of Hooves and Beats (doesn't fit any initials), Land of Pyres and Neon.
- Revealed to be Land of Tombs and Krypton, but it's Dirk's, not Roxy's.
- Jossed names: Land of Glass and Reflection (doesn't fit any initials).
- Revealed to be Land of Mounds and Xenon (not Mausoleums).
- Jossed names: Land of Demonsnote and Skulls
- This is highly unlikely, but this troper thinks that maybe uu's Land would be that.
- Jossed in fact; we know the initials for all the lands and none of them line up with Lo Ca C.
- Could it not be under a different name, such as the Land of Gears and Drapery?
- None of the kid's land names line up with that either... (and I doubt it's Caliborn's either, as that was flashing multiple colors.)
- Perhaps it is what Hussie's world was?
- Could it not be under a different name, such as the Land of Gears and Drapery?
- The baby John that John created is actually Poppop. He goes to the Alpha Session with the Colonel Sassacre book, explaining why it has Nanna's note.
- This is Jossed: Beta John is seen landing with a bright blue Sassacre book, before it aged, so it seems Jane has the same book via shenanigans
- Similarly, the baby versions of Rose, Dave, and Jade are actually Alpha!Mom, Alpha!Bro, and Grandma English.
- Baby Rose's bunny (the original Con Air bunny) becomes Roxy's wizard bunny. Baby Jade's bunny (Rose's knitted bunny) becomes Jake's Indiana Jones bunny.
- Following from John above, there is no indication for this.
- Baby Rose's bunny (the original Con Air bunny) becomes Roxy's wizard bunny. Baby Jade's bunny (Rose's knitted bunny) becomes Jake's Indiana Jones bunny.
- Meanwhile, the paradox clones of Nanna, Mom, Bro, and Grandpa go to the Alpha Universe and become Jane, Roxy, Dirk, and Jake.
- In Dirk's case, this explains how Lil' Cal is in the Alpha Universe.
- The question arises then that how did Cal get into the Beta Session, where he held far more importance.
- In Dirk's case, this explains how Lil' Cal is in the Alpha Universe.
- This WMG then presumes that in Jane's Session, she'll create paradox clones of Poppop, Alpha!Mom, Alpha!Bro, and Grandma. These eventually become John, Rose, Dave, and Jade. Their ectobiological children become Nanna, Mom, Bro, and Grandpa (It's also possible that the ectobiological children will have different parents).
- The book is sent back to the past with Poppop's paradox clone who becomes John (it's also possible it went back with Nanna, making the book one big stable time loop).
- Jossed via mistaken assumption. Nanna's inscription shows that John was the true recipient of the book.
- Roxy's wizard bunny goes with Rose and becomes her knitted bunny. Jake's Indiana Jones bunny goes with Jake and becomes Liv Tyler.
- Lil' Cal appears in the ectobiology lab and goes back to the Beta Universe with Bro.
- Presumably, Alpha versions of Maplehoof and Mutie are sent with Dave and Mom.
- The book is sent back to the past with Poppop's paradox clone who becomes John (it's also possible it went back with Nanna, making the book one big stable time loop).
- So to summarize:
- John, Rose, Dave, Jade, Jane, Roxy, Dirk, and Jake are all paradox clones of their Alpha Universe counterparts, and their ectobiological parents are actually their ectobiological children.
- The bunny's timeline is that the Beta!Con Air bunny goes to the Alpha universe and becomes the wizard bunny, which goes back to the Beta universe to become the knitted bunny, which goes back to the Alpha universe to become the Indiana Jones bunny, which goes back again to the Beta universe where it becomes Liv Tyler (and it goes to and from the Alpha Universe at least one more time!) This WMG presumes the Alpha! Con Air bunny/Lil' Sebastian is actually unrelated to the other bunnies and will be prototyped as Jane's kernelsprite.
- This is Jossed: Dirk directly states that the Alpha Bunny is separate from Jake's bunny plan, moreover Liv was destroyed by the Green Sun.
- Lil' Cal's timeline is that he was made by Gamzee in the Beta Session, goes with baby Dirk to the Alpha Session, goes with baby Bro back to the Beta Session, gets picked up by Jack after killing Bro, gets pulled out by Jack in the Troll Session, and then goes to the Troll Universe with a doomed Aradiabot. He is currently in possession of Gamzee on the meteor. The only way this timeline could be more messed up is if he enters the Alpha Session and then goes back to the Alpha Universe.
- There is no indication that Skaian portals can send things between universes, and every indication that they cannot. Moreover, Doc's comments applied specifically to the Pre-Scratch trolls, and it has yet to be explained what he meant by that, but it seems those conditions do not apply to the Alpha Session, given UU's comments seem to ensure that they are destined to win the game. One suggested theory that is not so off the wall insane is that they simply weren't ectobiological clones, but had natural parents.
- Doc Scratch says flat-out that the glitch foretelling Lord English's presence in a session is that the players were not created during that session. He also says that the original trolls arrived from the sky in a manner similar to that which we've seen other players arrive on their worlds during infancy. Furthermore, both Hussie and in-comic characters have stated that Sburb is the way in which reality is propagated, meaning all realities get a Sburb "install". If the original troll players were not made in their session and were not born via the natural means of their species, then it stands to reason that they were created in another session. Therefore, it seems very likely that Skaian portals can indeed send material to new sessions; in fact, this capacity to send across sessions may very well be the flip-side of the glitch Doc Scratch is referring to in discussing the original troll players' origins. While not stated outright, it is difficult to imagine another way for all the conditions laid out by Scratch regarding the original troll session, and those revealed in general Sburb exposition, to be met.
- The only things shown to transport things cross session were Exile terminals, and those portals had a distinctly different color than either the Beta or Troll sessions; implying cross session shenanigans specifically are a very hard thing to organize. If it were as simple as entering a portal, Noir could have done that without needing to hide in the Frog Temple.
- Doc Scratch says flat-out that the glitch foretelling Lord English's presence in a session is that the players were not created during that session. He also says that the original trolls arrived from the sky in a manner similar to that which we've seen other players arrive on their worlds during infancy. Furthermore, both Hussie and in-comic characters have stated that Sburb is the way in which reality is propagated, meaning all realities get a Sburb "install". If the original troll players were not made in their session and were not born via the natural means of their species, then it stands to reason that they were created in another session. Therefore, it seems very likely that Skaian portals can indeed send material to new sessions; in fact, this capacity to send across sessions may very well be the flip-side of the glitch Doc Scratch is referring to in discussing the original troll players' origins. While not stated outright, it is difficult to imagine another way for all the conditions laid out by Scratch regarding the original troll session, and those revealed in general Sburb exposition, to be met.
- Jossed. There is one set of babies, those from the Beta Session, however, they were sent to two points in time, creating an alternate universe.
- Course, we have no idea when Grandpa Harley died exactly. Jade was at the very least able to read and speak by the time he died, and unless she was able to do that at under 4 months of age (the window between her arrival and John's)...
- Alternatively, it could be the same order the Beta kids died. The first to die was Jade's dreamself, prior to John's waking self being killed by Jack and unleashing his god tier resurrection. Jake's dreamself died followed by Jane's waking self being blown up. That would mean the next kill would be R Lalonde (awake, possibly with Jane's dreamself dying just prior or simultaneously, if we count Bec Noir sucker-stabbing John), then D Strider (awake), then Jake's waking self, followed by R and D's dreamselves...
- Looking to be more likely: Jane's dreamself was the third to die- sucker-stabbed by Jack Noir, just like John's.
- Jane's dreamself a) was second to be attacked and b) seemingly didn't die.
- Myststuck confirms that Roxy and Dirk's dreamselves will eventually die, but Jane's probably won't, and if she does it'll be after the other two.
- Looking to be more likely: Jane's dreamself was the third to die- sucker-stabbed by Jack Noir, just like John's.
- Ergo Jossed.
- In this scenario, it's a possibility Jake's failure would be to not prototype his kernelsprite before entering, as Jade and John nearly failed to had Bec not intervened (albeit they might have succeeded without Vriska's interference, but I digress).
- If the alpha session people all don't have cruxite items, the way Jane did, then Roxy couldn't have had an 'eggy lokin thign' or however it was misspelled. And it's looking like Roxy might not get a meteor either.
- The first part is Jossed. Jane didn't actually die from the mailbox explosion.
- It's not the horrorterrors on Jake's bed; it's the Trolls' lusii. Look closer.
- Jossed; Jane has discussed waking up on Prospit and seeing Jake sleeping there.
This is going to be Jossed anyway, but it was worth a shot.
- One down. Three more to go.
- The start of the bit with Hussiebot made this look very likely, that the Alpha session existed solely to establish Hussiebot's cruelty. But considering that the characters we just spent two years getting to know have just been consigned to an "intermission", it seems rather unlikely unless Act 6-2 introduces us to a whole new Alpha session; Jane is likely to survive somehow, just like she's presumably survived previous assassination attempts.
- Actually not; kid's long gone, now.
- Nope. Probably.
- Prettty much Jossed.
- Jossing my own entry here. Hussie has said on tumblr that Dirk and Roxy were living in the future all along.
- Mom and Bro seem to know unnaturally more about Sburb than even Jane and Jake, who don't seem to know much more than what they got from UU.
- This does not seem to be the case.
- That would not make much sense, as their beta-selves would probably need to have been absorbed by the scratch, and they are all dead at this point.
- Jossed by A 6 I 2's explanation of how the scratch works.
- This does not seem to be the case.
- Jossed: It's just the two troll girls; though one could argue uu and UU correspond to Dirk and Jane respectively, the patron troll shenanigans still don't work because Aranea and UU are talking to everyone and Meenah has no real connection to Roxy besides wanting to hunt her.
- Tenatively Jossed by the fact that Time powers don't work like that; Dave has to follow his own preordained path, and since the deaths seemingly are not a part of that, he can't correct them without causing a timeline split. Moreover his powers are primarily combat oriented according to Aradia.
- It's probably more on the order of 11 given the Arc Number. The use of "But not many" seems to be misleading as well; Dirk refers to Jake and Jane's contemporary culture as ancient history, so it could be as much as 1111 years in the future.
- Unlikely. Roxy and Dirk still refer to their dead guardians as "Mom" and "Bro". If their guardians really were THAT FAR in the past, I'd imagine they'd use more distant terminology.
- It is 413-ish. Original WMG Jossed.
- Jossed for a pretty simple reason: Strider and Lalonde don't look like Dirk and Roxy, and we already know guests can be transported to the medium during an entry, like Dad or the other guardians.
- Jossed via mistaken assumptions: there are 4 new lands and there's absolutely no indication they will be the same as the counterparts of the Troll's session, given that there is absolutely no commonality between the Troll Session Lands and the known Beta Kid Lands, aside from Frogs with Jade and Kanaya.
- Woah woah woah. "Jossed?" While I think this theory is unlikely, Jossed means that the creator (via his work or outside statements) has invalidated it. Until the new lands are shown in the story, it can't be Jossed by anything short of Hussie saying so.
- Which is why it says "Via mistaken assumption". Jossed here is simply being used as shorthand for "Demonstrates a lack of understanding of existing canon", and besides, the fact that there are 8 new lands has been directly Jossed. TV Tropes at any rate doesn't really have terms for that, so the term "Jossed" is sometimes used to mean the previous statement, instead of the actual definition. Not all theories fall into a straight Confirmed / Jossed dichotomy, but we've got to sort through them somehow, and these are simply the terms that exist.
- Jossed really means "confirmed not to be true" or "confirmed false", or at least that's how WMG uses it.
- And now the new lands have been shown to be completely different.
- Woah woah woah. "Jossed?" While I think this theory is unlikely, Jossed means that the creator (via his work or outside statements) has invalidated it. Until the new lands are shown in the story, it can't be Jossed by anything short of Hussie saying so.
- Probably Jossed.
- Jossed
- Jossed. Trickster Mode is more like a Super Mode. Hussie comperes it to Mario's Super-star while the plot treats it more like a mind-altering drug.
- Alternately, he's banned her from leaving the house to ensure that she is able to play Sburb, whether he did so under his own initiative or under orders from the Batterwitch.
- It appears her Dad's trying to protect her from assassination. It also appears he wasn't successful.
- Well, she's not dead yet, thanks to GCat.
- Jossed
- Well, she's not dead yet, thanks to GCat.
- By this logic, shouldn't Godcat, counterpart of Bec, be a player in place of Jake?
- As incredibly unlikely as this is, this shipper would like to see this happen, if only because Jane dying for Dad would mean he'd still be around in three years when Alpha Mom/Roxy turns eighteen.
- This also fufills the Heiress-Sans-Parent rung on the Echeladder. They never said how it'd be sans-parent, after all.
- Jossed via mistaken assumption; Jane has a dreamself, ergo she must be a player.
- Jossed actually. The Condesce needed Jane to enter in order to bring her warship through to Earth.
- Jossed though; GCat watches over all the Alpha Kids equally.
- None of the musical references are canonical, English's coat is actually a reference to the colors in pool, and Time and Space are far more wide spanning than just Doctor Who. Besides, Jossed as of current canon, as Jane's dreamself is still alive.
- Jossed now.
- She's well on the way to it already, her computer having blown up.
- Jossed: There's actually no chaos in a Void Session; Jane hasn't even fought an Imp yet.
- Nothing is said about the green lantern being re-lit in the prophecy in Myststuck, so this is probably Jossed.
- There may also be some kind of cerulean influence- Vriska couldn't do it, but maybe someone else can.
- That implication is patently false; Vriska's mind control on humans was strictly limited to putting humans to sleep (and she couldn't even control the personalities of Trolls either, as Karkat demonstrated), so her doppelganger can't have that ability.
- And Andrew directly jossed this one in a recent round of questions.
- That implication is patently false; Vriska's mind control on humans was strictly limited to putting humans to sleep (and she couldn't even control the personalities of Trolls either, as Karkat demonstrated), so her doppelganger can't have that ability.
Just a thought. At the moment, Jane probably has 11 hours:11 minutes:11 seconds to enter. When she finally gets around to opening the cruxtruder, she'd then have what, 1 minute 11 seconds left? There's no way she'd have enough time left.
- Continuing on this, nobody enters the regular way. Roxy enters through the void, Dirk just sits around with one self entered and one self on Earth, and I can't come up with anything for Jake. Something Lord Englishy? If there aren't any lands in the Alpha Session because Jade is bringing the Beta sessions', this would resolve none of them being able to enter on their lands.
- None of them have entered yet. Roxy has gone into it and come back out, but entry specifically means doing something with a Cruxite item. Dreamselves especially don't count as entry, as awakening a dreamself prior to entry is fairly common. According to the Frog Temples as well, they all have lands.
- I wasn't saying that Roxy officially entered yet, I was saying that if she was unable to enter the Cruxite item way, she could just float in through the void.
- Confirmed / Jossed, depending on what you define as "normal." Jane entered when her timer ran out. She did not do a pre-entry prototyping nor interact with her prototyping item to enter. No meteor impacted her site when the clock ran down (though the Battleship Condescension reentered over her house). However, she did enter by following the normal steps using the pre-punched card, so...
- The Title of the WMG was confirmed but everything else about it is Jossed.
- There was not a Time Skip; Dirk and Roxy live in the future. From the perspective of Sburb, they're all operating on San Dimas time.
- Her house was glowing blue too. Seemingly just a side effect of entry which helps visually show that a location is entering.
- Mistaken assumption: Jane isn't watching Jade's tower as should be obvious from the blue color and the gold tower. She's watching her own imminent lifey thing.
- Jossed, Gcat saved her.
- There are no consorts in the Alpha Session. Angels weren't actually consorts either, like Sollux's brains, they were merely an aspect of the land.
- Jossed.
- Umm... what, their dreamselves probably died as well from delayed damage.
- Yea, Dream Selves die if the real body isn't kissed by another player in time. Since Dirk and Jake are unconscious and several magnitudes removed from Jane and Roxy...WELP.
- It's been made pretty clear by this point that Jane's Dreamself isn't going to die any time soon- being caught in a stabbing and an explosion wasn't enough to do her in. As for Roxy's, she's in good hands.
- Yea, Dream Selves die if the real body isn't kissed by another player in time. Since Dirk and Jake are unconscious and several magnitudes removed from Jane and Roxy...WELP.
- Jossed with direct meet up.
- How about Lord English's sarcophagus?
- The Cairo Overcoat/sarcophagus shouldn't be that large.
- The other fourth wall, the one Jade and John are supposed to arrive through. Remember how Jade's grew to RIDICULOUS size and got a battleship shot through it? And how UU said Jake's job was simply to "pave the way for the arrival of gods"?
- Close. The other fourth wall was inside the tower.
- The battle ship that Grandpa Harley had.
- The central tower to his home, which is missing. Note in Seer: Descend there was talk of adding orbs to a ring, but was dismissive. Jade's home looked a lot like the dream towers. The right prototyping and you could end up with a prototyping tower. Considering you can get a Matriorb from an oil covered fedora this isn't so much of a stretch. Jade's home that is missing in the Alpha Session, but clearly existed since Jake's "home" is a broken off spire from said house.
- Void Sessions cannot prototype, the Seer: Descend comment was a mere reference to the Troll session, and the tower was destroyed by explosion.
- The orb of the tower was the object in question, however, making this Confirmed.
- The Battlefield is Jossed; the Alpha Battlefield was destroyed and Jade still has the tiny Beta Battlefield.
- Jossed. It's the lab that used to be at the top of his house.
- It's strongly implied that, at least once in Homestuck, it was WV's fault.
- Additionally, Roxy shares some guilt for these incidents, though mainly for the ones Jane suffered through.
- And thus, that's enough to disprove "everytime" [sic].
- Jossed already, he thinks she's cute.
- Except that doesn't make any sense; Jake as the Page of Hope must be created from the Alpha Session, as every other player thus far has been.
- What about the pre-Scratch trolls?
- Their story hasn't been fully explained, hence the "every other player thus far"
- What about the pre-Scratch trolls?
- Apparently Jossed by Rose's exposition. While they are identical, they both seem to be their own separate entities.
- Jane's hat can be alchemized using a recipe that requires a Matriorb, as her fetch modus already showed us. John has already demonstrated that it's possible to reverse alchemize components from objects (like he made the clean poster out of a poster with clown scribbles). And all THEY have to do is have someone with sufficient hacking skills (Alpha Mom) to deduce the code of the Matriorb from the hat's code, and have someone with a sufficiently high level (like let's say a God Tier player) collect enough grist (like the loot dropped by a denizen) to alchemize one. Seems to be a very logical line of thought.
- Why not Alpha Bro?
- No need for all of that. Kanaya implies that she already has the captcha code for it. She just says that the grist cost was astronomical.
- So perhaps there's a way to just revert the hat into the components used to make it in that recipe?
- There is: there's that device that Jane own that takes a captchalouge card and boondollars and uses them to make Grist.
- The Condesce asked Roxy to recreate it with her Void powers.
- Jossed. Roxy recreates the Matriorb with no involvement from Jake.
- Rose's exposition was accompanied by a panel that showed the Condesce's invasion wasn't complete until around 2030. Seemingly Jossed.
- By my ruler, the change in color after 2000 is about 15% of the length of the 1900-2000, which puts it closer to 11.11.11 than to 2030. It's still quite possible, being that I doubt AH expected anyone to be anal enough to take a ruler to the screen.
- It looked farther than Poppop and Grandma's landings in 1910, which is what prompted the "Not 2011". Remains to be seen at any rate.
- The arrival of Alpha John and Jade is about 32 pixels away from 1900. The timeline turning red is about 38 pixels away from 2000. So probably a few years later, but before the end of the decade.
- Jossed: Dirk's exposition revealed the flooding of the Earth was a gradual thing.
- By my ruler, the change in color after 2000 is about 15% of the length of the 1900-2000, which puts it closer to 11.11.11 than to 2030. It's still quite possible, being that I doubt AH expected anyone to be anal enough to take a ruler to the screen.
- John x Vriska= Subject A, Jade x Unknown Participant= Subject B, Subject A x Subject B = J
- The offspring in question seems to be another mother grub. Her responsibility was not to impregnate her Lusus, but to cut the egg out of her.
- Pretty sure from context and everything that Jade's Penpal is Grandpa Harley.
- Jossed jossed! It's Jade's grandkid and the orb is asploded.
- 1. Jack is shown have intense feelings of love and loyalty towards Jade, to the point he is unable to kill her
- 2. The penpals handwritting is incredibly Jagged, perhaps representing Jack's hasty, and violent demenor. (Although, the handwritting on the citation◊ looks slightly different)
- Doesn't match his handwriting we've seen in the comic. That's not slightly different, that's entirely different. J's handwriting mostly matches Vriska's.
- 3. The penpal has a desire to get into a (friendly) fist fight with John. If you recall, Jack seems to loathe the "graveyard stuffer" with a passion. The mere scent of John, causes Jack Noir succumb to unfathomable bloodtlust. (Or at least it does, before he starts thinking about dog bones and Jade)
- 4. The penpal indicates that he loves to wrestle, though no one really wants to with him. Makes sense because realy, who'd want to werstle someone with the power to warp to wherever they wanted?
- 5. Why would the penpal refer to Jade as "Grandma"? Jack Noir (deep down) is very loyal to Jade. And loyal people respect their elders!
- 6. The penpal signs his name as "J" which could possibly be short for Jack.
- 1. Why would Jack succumb to love, and why would he be in the future?
- Okay, remember that fight with Rose? The colosion of the two powers caused Jack to jet ahead into the future by accident, and caused him to lose his memories of being evil.
- 2. Why did the bunny he built turn on his past self?
- It was always meant to protect John, even if he was being harassed by Jack's Past self
- 3. Why was he so adamant on making the bunny?
- Too ensure that John and or his friends had at least a chance at taking on lord english
- The kids don't even know English exists, and there is no conceivable situation in which Jack would consider himself Jade's grandson.
- Jossed, I think. Hasn't it been confirmed that Jake English is Jade's penpal?
- Though the name is very close...
- That eight ball is actually the one on Dave's Felt Duds (Which... He apparently managed to make at some point, since doomed!Dave was wearing them?) It's not the first time Hussie has self-inserted dressed as one or more of his characters.
- Lord English is a time traveling demon from beyond any one universe. Why would he be the son of a player? Beyond that, English has only ever shown or implied time powers, which has no connection to Jade.
- Jossed, despite her "grandson" being named Jake English.
- Elaborating: first-generation offspring would be double-first cousins.
- His interest in wrestling John seems to point towards Equius.
- Judging by recent conversations...Karkat?
- Equius is dead, Tavros is dead, so it really just remains to be seen.
- Jossed by Act 6
- She might have met them while sleepwalking through the dream-bubbles.
- Original WMG Jossed.
- Alternatively, it will be prototyped, but not a way that breaks the Session. Lalonde will then combine with it when she becomes the God Tiered Hero of Void; since Void has been shown to be the opposite of Space, it makes sense that the Void hero will merge with a cat just as the space hero merges with a dog.
- Why did it kill Jaspers then?
- Perhaps it knew from the connection with Jadesprite etc. via the Green Sun that Jaspers has to end up dead and prototyped in th Beta session, so came to the conclusion that if he didn't die soon this wouldn't happen. Or perhaps it needed Roxy to get into the lab for some reason.
- Why did it kill Jaspers then?
- Jossed: If anything he's loyal to Rose. Jaspers was not that fond of Roxy.
- Very close; it turns out there was Oblivious Guilt Slinging, because Lalonde was trying to manufacture a fake assassination attempt to get Jane to believe her.
- Considering that Roxy blames Betty Crocker for her mom and Dirk's bro's deaths, this one is pretty unlikely.
- Jossed.
- Doc Scratch never put Kanaya to sleep; he was mentioned briefly to have guided her to Prospit but the manner in which that occurred is unknown. At any rate, Jossed.
Place your bets!
- Another of Dirk's robots.
- Sawtooth
- An Imperial Drone
- Temporally displaced Roxy's Mom
- Dimensionally and temporally displaced Rose.
- Dimensionally and temporally displaced Rose's Mom.
- A member of the Felt.
- Lord English and his cuestick pegleg.
- Some caretaker Roxy has we weren't aware of.
- A carapace.
- Ding ding ding! We have a winner, but also a loser! There are tons of them!
- SURPRISE FANTROLL
- Giant cat mecha.
- Pounce de Leon, or some counterpart thereof.
- Calmasis.
- Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff.
- Dirk.
- And that is indeed his name.
- Roxy does call him Dick occasionally. Let's just call it even.
- D. Strider does seem to be the most technologically proficient, having invented a near-AI auto-responder.
- Jossed (at least partially), it's Dirk.
Bonus WMG: This also gives him the right/opportunity to ironically sing "Rolling in the Deep", because he'd be, you know, a Dell.
- Alternatively, just as Jake's dream self is already dead before the game begins, perhaps Alpha!Bro's awake self may already be dead. Like Aradia, who was dead before entering SGRUB, Alpha!Bro may exist only in robotic form (autoresponder and brobot) until he awakens his dream self/god tier.
- Jossed. We've already seen DS when he spoke to Jane after getting out of the shower.
- Tentatively Jossed. It seems that Bro was just in the shower, though we don't know where Dave was.
- Jossed: It's just a Con Air Call-Back it seems.
- Jossed, at the very least by Jane: Answer Strider.
- Double Jossed. Alpha!Earth's First Guardian is a cat.
- Jossed. Strider's name is Dirk.
- ...He was in every scene with Rose in it, that counts as a montage.
- That's referring to the scenes seen through the fenstrated wall, as mentioned above, but it's more likely a coincidence.
- Who knows, he's dead! Also the Sufferer was unique.
- That's referring to the scenes seen through the fenstrated wall, as mentioned above, but it's more likely a coincidence.
- Doubtful; Dirk is as into puppets as Bro was.
- Which could also explain why Beta session Bro Strider showed no interest in robots: he would have been only half as intelligent as Alpha Dirk.
- Would that mean that Dirk would no longer be a genius if his dream self died?
- Jossed: Dirk isn't a genius.
- Jossed
- Unfortunately Jossed.
- Jossed as far as we know.
- Sadly Jossed. It's not enough to change him that drastically.
- Pretty sure this isn't possible, since according to Hussie, after dickin' around in Jane's session, he enters Caliborn's somehow. The bullet-riddled Gamzee is the most recent iteration of him available.
- Alternatively, he kills kanaya shortly after she kisses rose, and prototypes her, leaving only the trolls that correspond to the cardinal zodiac signs un-prototyped
- Jossed. It's Equius and AR.
- That logic actually doesn't apply; for a very long time, J was known to be a mysterious person but there was no indication his gender was fluid. Moreover, Uranian was a originally specific term for a MTF Transsexual, not just any sort of non-binary or non cissexual, and UU seemingly is happy to be identified as a female. In addition, no session can compose of a single player, so it's entirely possible Uranian is simply a reference that makes sense in the context of her own session (i.e. perhaps a celestial body theme, or what have you).
- Or you can simply chalk it up to UU lying outright and being a First Guardian, which don't really even have gender.
- Possibly Jossed. If UU isn't lying, her Sburb class is exclusive to female players. Then again, no one ever said that classes were limited to physiologically female players. It might count psychological gender for all we know.
- She has consistently been referred to as female constantly. She seems to be a Wholesome Crossdresser at worst. Calling this one as Jossed.
- All that means is that she identifies as female. Whether she is cissexual or trans* is still up in the air, so how is this Jossed?
- Because usually when a girl says she's a girl, she's a biological girl. There has never been any suggestion remotely of her being anything but a normal cissexual female, and we don't even know if there can be transsexual trolls too, because their gender identity is completely different from humans. The core WMG too is Jossed about the whole gender balance thing too, because there's uu. Speaking in an aside as a writer here too, in all likelihood, while Andrew is an LGBT sympathizer, he doesn't want to touch the pretty emotionally charged subject of transsexuality in a primarily comedic series. Kanaya and Dirk's sexualities are never gone into in great deal, but transexuality is a bit different, and it's genuinely hard for writers to do it proper justice.
- She's a troll
- She's at least several universes removed, as she has enough sessions to seriously study all the mythological roles in detail. She doesn't seem human at all though, having no idea how they reproduce.
- She could have studied the universes before the original trolls, or Rose's notes on the subject
- Jossed, UU is a completely diferent species known as a cherub.
- She could have studied the universes before the original trolls, or Rose's notes on the subject
Perhaps the biggest barrier to UU being the Signless would be his gender — except that "uranian" can mean transsexual. If the Signless was transgender, it might not be noteworthy to trollish history considering how irrelevant physical sex is to reproduction. Karkat has been teased before for watching "movies for girls," so there's at least a connection between Karkat and muddied gender roles.
- Alternatively, UU is one of the other 24 pre-Scratch trolls.
- There's no evidence there's more than 12 pre-Scratch trolls, as indeed that wouldn't make any sense, unless you're including the pre-Scratch ancestors that became the post-Scratch players.
- Possibly supported by her candy-red cufflink in the shape of half of the Sign of the Signless.
- But Jossed in that her horns don't match at all. And appearances don't change between Scratched sessions, just look at John and Poppop.
- Horns don't match.
- Alpha is a designation that doesn't mean anything in the Trolls' session, so I assume you mean the original session. If that's the case, this is Jossed by virtue of Feferi not having an ancestor in the Ancestors' session. She was ectobiologically created, which means that she is genetically related to between 1 and 23 other trolls, and no others.
- Presumably what is meant here is the pre-Scratch version of the Condesce, the one who played the pre-Scratch trolls' session.
- Jossed; horns don't match and appearances do not change between Scratched sessions, compare John and Poppop.
- Presumably what is meant here is the pre-Scratch version of the Condesce, the one who played the pre-Scratch trolls' session.
- She's confirmed to be a Troll.
- Doesn't she talk about playing the game herself? That wouldn't make sense, considering how players and First Guardians are created.
- Pre-Scratch Alternia did not have a First Guardian, which is partially why they needed to Scratch.
- WARNING EPILEPTICTREES AHEAD: In line with the theory that Complacency of the Learned has something to do with UU's true identity, UU is the thirteenth troll of the Pre-Scratch Troll session engaged in a game against Lord English with the goal being to beat him for good. While ensuring that the Alpha kids succeed in their session she actively attempts to sabotage her own session to create a situation that will force her fellow players to initiate the Scratch which would lead to the events of Homestuck as we know them. Since she is the leader of her session she would most likely use ectobiology to do this (possibly making her responsible for Karkat's mutation)or by killing them all (keeping in line with Cot L). As for why she is no longer present in the post-scratch troll session it could be that ectobiology shenanigans caused her to cease to exist or she was removed from play due to her actions hindering the success of the session (thus giving it a better chance to succeed).
- There were only 12 players in the Pre-Scratch session according to Doc and Word of God.
- Don't forget, though, that players != impact on session. Dad, Mom, Bro and Grandpa were all running around doing things. Bro even began the process of the Scratch. Grandpa somehow entered and escaped the session completely independent of how the kids even entered.
- There were only 12 players in the Pre-Scratch session according to Doc and Word of God.
- Rendered irrelevant by later revelations.
- Her knowledge of Sburb and the depth of that knowledge seems to suggest that isn't the case, as does the fact that UU refers to many many sessions that have come and gone. UU also told Jane she was from another universe. We also don't know that the buildings are inhabited or not; after all, the Condesce would have a pretty hard time establishing troll society given all the tribulations and trials it entails even for Kanaya who has a matriorb. However, it would fit into a neat sense of symmetry, and is well within the scope of possibility.
- Given that UU's tome of knowledge is heavily suggested to be Rose and Kanaya's journal, it's highly possible.
- Possibly Jossed by Dirk's confirmed that no trolls are on Alpha Earth.
- In his own time. That says nothing about their future, especially if this is related to Kanaya's recreated matriorb.
- That assumes his earth has a future.
- Given that UU's tome of knowledge is heavily suggested to be Rose and Kanaya's journal, it's highly possible.
- Not quite Jossed, but most of the supporting evidence on both sides is irrelevant.
- Yes her info comes from Kanaya and Rose's Book, so the premises are false, and as such, Jossed.
- Jossed. Word of God is that A) The Alpha Troll session was created by a 48 player session of unknown species and B) Doc Scratch and Lord English are the Mirthful Messiahs.
- (A) was an obvious joke and part of his Running Gag about doing an act about a 48 player Squiddle session in response to whining about how long Hivebent took the plot away from the kids.
- A is canon. Karkat has alluded to this being the case with references to the Troll Zodiac having 48 symbols. Only the fact that they're Squiddles is a joke, and that may not even be the case!
- Hussie said that Lord English and Doc Scratch were the one's perceived as the Mirthful Messiahs, so if one is Lord English...
- Nevertheless, they're not the Troll's mirthful messiahs. Certainly seem to calling back to them.
- (A) was an obvious joke and part of his Running Gag about doing an act about a 48 player Squiddle session in response to whining about how long Hivebent took the plot away from the kids.
- She seems to be a troll pretty completely! Going with Jossed since there's no evidence of a species that looks like trolls but aren't them?
- He's a Derse dreamer and Jake's dreamself is dead.
- Or maybe The Handmaid
- Or BETTY CROCKER!!!
- Jossed, the Empress is on Derse. Possibly for The Handmaid too since HIC has Lord English's multicolored "aura" and Doc Scratch promised to let "Aradiacestor" die after recruiting the Empress.
- Alien blood colors = Troll
- Does it now? What about Snowman's blue blood?
- Snowman is a very special exception. Besides, she and her brother both have alien blood colors and haven't demonstrated any of the properties Snowman did, so it's safe to say they do genuinely have alien blood colors as they're trolls. At any rate, Jossed for another reason; Exile hands do not look like UU's. They either have 5 distinct fingers or claws.
- Does it now? What about Snowman's blue blood?
- UU's session doesn't correspond to both known Troll sessions at all.
- UU and uu are both not based on cancer, so Jossed.
- UU's race is the perfect combo of the pre- and post-scratch Troll race — compassionate and effective. Or to use various Something Awful theories, UU's race is the pre-scratch Trolls themselves in some sort of moebius quadruple reach-around to trap Lord English in the same four universes for some reason.
- There are at least 2, and possibly 3 Trolls in UU's session, so we're on the way towards it.
- Jossed. Only 2.
- What if the new batch of trolls do have the Eastern Zodiac as their theme?
- If there's 11 more, no problem. If a version of the Beta Trolls are with UU then "Vriska's" spider/scorpion or "Karkat's" crab can replace the traditional odd-one-out, the cat.
- Trolls that already correspond: Equius-horse, Nepeta-tiger, Tavros-Ox/Bull, Aradia-ram, Terezi-Dragon, UU-snake. Unattached: dog, rooster, monkey, rat, rabbit, pig, and cat; Karkat, Kanaya, Feferi, Sollux, and Vriska; Eridan and Gamzee can stand in for the dragon (sea horse) and ram (goat), respectively.
- Jossed. There's two and they're both loosely related to the same sign.
- If there's 11 more, no problem. If a version of the Beta Trolls are with UU then "Vriska's" spider/scorpion or "Karkat's" crab can replace the traditional odd-one-out, the cat.
- This also fits the constellation of Ophiuchus, which can be subdivided into Ophiuchus himself and the snake, Serpentarius. So theoretically there can be two new characters introduced, one with the symbol of a snake and temptation, and another with the symbol of a healer.
- And it has also been revealed that she does indeed have a "brother", so to speak, so both taking control of the computer is not that farfetched.
- Opiuchus itself was first proposed as part of a 14-sign zodiac (the 14th sign, if you're curious, was Cetus). Note that Cetus is the denizen of Rose - see the WMG about UU and Rose below.
- Combining with the below theory, uranianUmbra could be a human girl obsessed with Homestuck (which might remain as a webcomic, as she read about all of them through text) and she could just be roleplaying her fantroll. The reason why she knows so much is because she really doesn't, and is making most of the stuff she says up. her "brother", on the other hand, helps her use her account when she runs out of ideas to type. Also, there was a lime part and a gray part to her symbol; a troll's symbol is only the color of their blood, and trolls can't have two types of blood. Her symbol is the gray rod, which usually means mutant red blood, as Karkat (and by that extention, the whole of the human race) had. Her "brother", the trollier parts of the account, provides the Lime blood, which is why she said that her brother has a different type of blood than her. they didn't want to make seperate accounts to talk to the alphas so they combined.
- Jossed. While UU might have two separate personalities, both of those personalities have separate accounts.
- Until we see them interacting with each other or in the flesh, having two accounts does not necessarily imply that they aren't the same person. (undyingUmbrage could be an inverted Sock Puppet.) Also, sharing the same letters for their chumhandles might indicate two identities on the same account. Plus uu's symbol is an alternate take on an Ophiuchus sign, which links them well.
- Still the idea that the account uranianUmbra is a shared one is rather conclusively Jossed. The idea behind the WMG was pretty close though!
- Until we see them interacting with each other or in the flesh, having two accounts does not necessarily imply that they aren't the same person. (undyingUmbrage could be an inverted Sock Puppet.) Also, sharing the same letters for their chumhandles might indicate two identities on the same account. Plus uu's symbol is an alternate take on an Ophiuchus sign, which links them well.
- UU is much more closely related to Karkat.
- Seemingly Jossed. They apparently exist in a universe many iterations of Sburb down the line from the Alpha Universe
- Jossed. He's the anti-fans of Homestuck.
- Jossed
- Given Rose's exposition about the Scratch, this does not seem to be the case.
- Think about it, if Karkat wasn't a mutant his blood would've been a lime green, the same colour shown on UU's rod. All pre-scratch trolls seem to be inversions of their post-scratch selves, and so the grumpy Karkat becomes the overly nice UU. Exept that UU's female. eh.
- Jossed as UU's horns have already been shown to not match the Sufferer's.
- Based on his symbol, he seems to have candy red for additional connections to Karkat.
- Jossed by UU, he has candy red blood.
- JOSSED.
- Or appropriate, given the "she's actually a villain" theories.
- Or appropriate if heroic because, as Kanaya said, the game likes to challenge people to grow in new directions. We also don't know what "doom" powers are other than maybe Sollux's ability to hear the soon-to-be dead, but they might not be all that bad since they're meant to belong to a hero.
- Or appropriate if she has lime-green blood, a la the color of The Felt members and Lord English. Especially if there is a deeper connection there.
- Or it could be using doom in the original destiny/fate sense, which fits her thematically. Remember her constant warnings of casual spoilers and not wanting to change things?
- Or appropriate if heroic because, as Kanaya said, the game likes to challenge people to grow in new directions. We also don't know what "doom" powers are other than maybe Sollux's ability to hear the soon-to-be dead, but they might not be all that bad since they're meant to belong to a hero.
- Going along with this, UU will be a hero of doom, while uu will be a hero of Rage.
- According to standard session rules, in a two player session, one will be a Hero of Space and one will be a Hero of Time. The only apparent loophole is if UU and uu are in fact the same person, in which case they might simply be a single Hero of Doom, as Sollux also displayed duality.
- Also, if you think about it, all of the other trolls had unique aspects, separate from one another (ignoring those who are Scratch counterparts). But Sollux was the Gemini troll- there's a precedent for two trolls to share his aspect!
- Jossed. UU is the Muse of Space.
- Jossed. Muse of Space.
- The most logical explanations are a) that's not Gamzee (somehow), b) he's somehow wearing the God Tier outfit without actually going god-tier, or c) there's a third, as-yet-unrevealed way to go god tier.
- Jossed.
- Going with the previous guess, this could imply that UU is somehow related to the MSPA Reader who may or may not be the brother she was talking about.
- Oh for the love of... 20 bucks say he's reading this.
- Jossed with the revelation of UU's species.
- Additionally, her aspect is either Rage, Doom, Blood, and Mind, all of which have only had one representative so far.
- 2 player session implies Time or Space.
- Unless UU and uu are actually the same person. A one-player session has not been discussed, but could very well mean Doom rather than Space.
- Or neither of them are actually Heroes of Space or Time. The four Alpha kids didn't get either, likely because their session knows that they will be joined by other Heroes of Time and Space shortly. This makes it likely that UU and uu fall in the pool of Blood, Rage, Mind and Doom.
- The Alpha Session is unique.
- She's the Muse of Space
- 2 player session implies Time or Space.
- I was thinking about adding a theory "UU is Ms. Paint, and uu is the MSPA Reader" but I think there was already a "uu=MSPA Reader" theory out there at the time.
- Jossed.
- Don't you mean A2?
- Nope, I mean A1, as in Meenah & Aranea's universe. All trolls in A2 were killed by the Vast Glub before the universe itself was destroyed, and since Sollux is the originator of SGRUB in A2 and only sent it to his friends, no one else could have played it.
It's ambiguous whether or not a Scratch rewrites a session's originating universe or spawns a new one. (If multiple sessions from the same universe scratched, what would happen?) UU calls them different instances. This may mean that trolls on other planets in the same universe could play if creating A2 doesn't destroy A1 — just the SBURB session that triggered the process.
- Nope, I mean A1, as in Meenah & Aranea's universe. All trolls in A2 were killed by the Vast Glub before the universe itself was destroyed, and since Sollux is the originator of SGRUB in A2 and only sent it to his friends, no one else could have played it.
- Jossed if UU is to be trusted. She outright states they're from a universe not remotely connected to the chain of A1->B2 sessions.
- Truly Jossed
- Got the genders/tags mixed up there?
- Jossed by the mechanics of the game; the two of them are the only players in their session, so therefore they must be Time and Space, which are required for every Session, including unsuccessful ones.
- I mean, Skaia knew that the Alpha session would be joined by the Beta session, so who's to say they HAVE to be Time and Space?
- Word of God is that those are the only two necessary elements. The Alpha Session's mythology has made it completely apparent at every stage of the information given about it that it has eight players, whereas the UU session is said to only have two. If their session was going to be added to in some fashion, it would be apparent. Besides, the Alpha Session is essentially unique, as it took a ridiculously specific set of circumstances to get the Beta Kids to the Alpha Session.
- The sole exception is if UU and uu are a single individual, in which case they might be a Hero of Doom, however that is a separate WMG already covered above.
- Jossed by the mechanics of the game; the two of them are the only players in their session, so therefore they must be Time and Space, which are required for every Session, including unsuccessful ones.
- All of the above is Jossed. They are the Space & Time players after all.
- Jossed. We have been told by Doc Scratch that English is not his true name.
- UU's lime green blood is a variation of that avocado-green blood that showed up in CSI (which also had an episode that featured a dude with chimera-ism, though no split personalities that I recall) - every time the uu personality goes to sleep it causes the release of chemicals that turn UU's blood green.
- Eh, that notion runs into too many problems. Ironically enough, one of them is the biggest clue yet pointing towards the split-personality theory, just because of how long it would take them to go through the game. Also, during uu's first conversation with Dirk his personality, according to a previous WMG, started to give way to UU's - shouldn't it be the other way around?
- I personally prefer the idea of UU being black-blooded. It's the only troll blood color we know exists that we haven't seen in a kid yet. That way we can say (s)he's the descendant/ancestor of (some version of) His Honorable Tyranny, or whatever class he would be the lusus for.
- That assumes that His Honorable Tyranny is a troll, which I think is pretty unlikely given his size, chitinous appearance, and strange-looking head. He's probably just an intelligent monster.
- Word of God is that he's just some big lobster monster, and not any sort of troll or lusus. Having blood off the hemospectrum entirely was Hussie's way of showing this.
- If there's more of UU's kind they'll all have eye-shatteringly bright (acid?) blood. Additionally, all the other "cheers" have pastel-colored, sorry, coloUred blood because they're the opposite of the trolls.
- Not only is His Honorable Tyranny not a troll, but we have Word of God that lime is the only one not accounted for so far, having been seen on the walls of the Grand Highblood's room.note note Note that UU's caduceus symbol is lime-coloUred.
- That assumes that His Honorable Tyranny is a troll, which I think is pretty unlikely given his size, chitinous appearance, and strange-looking head. He's probably just an intelligent monster.
- Assuming UU isn't lying, this WMG is confirmed.
- She was lying by omission - she never actually called herself a troll. She may still have green blood, but she most definitely isn't a troll. Jossed.
- Furthermore, the Pre-Scratch troll players were a primarily (if the Pisces troll is any indication) peaceful race while the Post-Scratch troll players were extremely violent and murderous (except for Feferi, Tavros, and Gamzee when he was high). It's not a stretch to say their ancestors are polar opposites of their descendants, and when you look at the cheerful and supportive UU versus her angry and violent sibling...
- Jossed via misunderstanding. Ectobabies are always made in pairs, even trolls, and double the number of players are produced. The UU session, having 2 players, would have 4 babies, and the two who aren't UU and uu would be their Ancestors / Biological parents. However, it could be a desynchronized session, in that one player comes from the past and the other from the future, in which case one might be the genetic parent of the other.
- Pretty damn close to Jossed, including the underlying assumption.
- Sharing the same body, this is pretty much irrelevant now.
- Oddly enough, He wasn't a cyborg when this was posted, but now is.
- UU is somehow connected to THE GRAND HIGHBLOOD. Look at those horns. Sure, slightly more wavy, BUT LOOK AT DEM CURVES http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006465
- Confirmed: The Grand Highblood's post-scratch self, Kurloz Makara, is conspiring with undyingumbrage (Caliborn, or Lord English).
- UU is the Troll Empress. Andrew said it himself that out of the trolls that would most likely survive the Vast Glub, Feferi and the Troll Empress would on account of their blood colour. And since there are no other trolls left besides the 12 we already know....
- Jossed because the Empress is Ancestor and therefore shares the Pisces sign with her.
- UU stands for "umbralUltimatum". That track in Volume 6? A hint to the trolltag UU would use.
- It should be mentioned that "Umbral Ultimatum" is a remix of (among other things) "Unbreakable Union", which was the music played for Jade's strife with Bec. So it's possible the UU troll is connected to Jade or Bec in some fashion; and would likely be Jade's (adopted) grandson.
- UU would look a lot like Rose, as Kanaya had envisioned her to be. The horns on her head look a lot like snake fangs.
- Too similar to Feferi... perhaps if one horn was like a fang and the other had two small points at the end, like the forked tongue of a reptile?
- Jossed. Her horns look like corkscrews (or at least very wavy), like the snakes on the rod of Asclepsius.
- If Kanaya doesn't find a way to restore the matriorb, UU will have a convenient way of restoring the Troll race.
- UU is Jade's Grandson. Unless his parents were double first cousins, it's a bit out there to assume he's completely human, and it's been confirmed that trolls and humans can have kids via ectobiology.
- Unless UU is a reincarnation of Karkat, set to appear after her dies, like in the virus he programs shortly after we meet him (see above). If it appears as a baby, perhaps Jade or her kids adopt it. It would still be a troll...
- Jossed. Jade's Grandson is Jake English.
- UU is Troll Rose (since UU can be a replacement for TT). Much like Ophiuchus/Serpentarius himself, she is acknowledged by a minority (i.e. Kanaya) but not part of the official group of trolls; to the majority (the other eleven), she doesn't even exist.
- UU was a regular troll who was outside of the group and died within the meteors. Because sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
- Jossed by UU's actual introduction. She is not any of these things. See separate WMGs for speculation on her identity.
- Jossed directly by Dirk.
- Uranian Umbra isn't a troll, but it is true that trolls took over the Earth and that the Cherubim live on it Post-Condescension, but these two facts are unrelated.
- Jossed. uu has the same green tone as Calliope.
- Jossed as of this page.
- Considering that each of the Alphas' lands also involve some form of burial site, here are some possible full names;
- Calliope: Land of Mausoleums and Argon
- Caliborn: Land of Graves and Radon
- Jossed. The Cherubs are in their own session, Caliborn is the only player, and his land has a different name.
- Probably not, there is no UU yet.
- And when there was, she was nothing like this.
- 13th doesn't exist as of current canon.
- Did you see the opening flash? There clearly aren't planets. Moreover, Jade's plan is to go to the session, not Earth. What's more likely is that the Empress and/or the new First Guardian manipulated Humans to go to space.
- I have a feeling 'multi-global' just refers to the fact that the Betty Crocker empire exists on Beta Earth and Alternia as well as Alpha Earth.
- Jossed: It actually just refers to the Mars colony.
- Unlikely; Betty Crocker disappeared suddenly on Beta Earth, so it just makes more logical sense for her to be on Alpha Earth than for Feferi to have come back to life somehow.
- Not back to life — the adult Feferi from the pre-Scratch troll universe is a separate person.
- It made more sense before we started to get an idea that Alpha!BC is pretty sinister too, given the subliminal messages in her ads.note
- Jossed: She's the Empress.
- Jossed via mistaken assumption: Word of God directly stated that Pre-Scratch Alternia was created by a 48 player session of unknown species. However, the players of that session didn't originate from it, and possibly came from the Condesce's Earth. The mystery Pisces Troll in particular seems to hail from a place that looks strikingly similar to a flooded city.
- Nothing for the formspring is canon unless confirmed in the comic, especially stuff from ages before it is pertinent.
- Andrew has mentioned this on the MSPA Forums, Tumblr, Formspring, and directly in comic with Karkat referring to the 48 zodiac symbols of Alternia, which Word of God also says are the subconscious echoes of memories of the players who created the universe. It is canon. Besides, a lot of stuff from Formspring is canon; Andrew is a Teasing Creator yes but his statements can be pretty reliably trusted.
- Nothing for the formspring is canon unless confirmed in the comic, especially stuff from ages before it is pertinent.
- She was unable to reform the trolls' Evil Empire because she was a puppet empress isolated from reality by her advisors.
- Where did this name come from? I thought she was just The Empress. Also she's the one who casually planned to murder Feferi and propelled troll society to become a murderous galactic empire in the span of roughly a century so....
- JOSSED. Though it is possible that pre!scratch Feferi Ancestor was nice.
- She seems to have shown up too and wow is she creepy.
- Dirk and Roxy already have access to technology that warps space. It's not much of a stretch for them to have technology that warps time too, at least in the sense that Trollian does. Moreover, UU was in contact with all of them, and may have helped Dirk and Roxy get in contact with Jake and Jane. Jake also accidentally managed to come in contact with Jade, so it's also possible he simply accidentally contacted the others.
- I somehow doubt UU would connect them up, because of her not wanting to reveal spoilers. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dirk and Roxy had the tech to communicate backwards in time lying around their houses, but I get the feeling that the Batterwitch is manipulating a whole lot of what's going on.
- Rose suggests they have some sort of Trollian-esque client.
- Yeah, I understand that they have the technology to communicate with each other, but then they also would have the tech to communicate with any of the other eight billion people on the planet, or heck, they could probably talk to people even further in the past. The question is how they met two random kids from four thousand years in the past.
- How did John and Jade meet on the internet with thousands of people around? Oh right, because the plot needs that to happen. Besides there's historical interest for Dirk to have tried to get in contact with the heiress of the Empress's pre-invasion empire.
- Also because Jade sent to herself in the past John's present causing her to try to contact him.
- How did John and Jade meet on the internet with thousands of people around? Oh right, because the plot needs that to happen. Besides there's historical interest for Dirk to have tried to get in contact with the heiress of the Empress's pre-invasion empire.
- Jossed: Dirk said UU organized it, however he and Roxy both did have historical interest in contacting Jake and Jane specifically as the son of Grandma English and the Heiress to the Crockercorp Empire.
- We don't know if the Batterwitch could have influenced UU.
- It's pretty evident as of now she couldn'tve.
- We don't know if the Batterwitch could have influenced UU.
- Isn't that more likely how the Exiles ended up on Earth?
- Jossed by Dirk.
- Looking Jossed. The Condesce wants her to recreate the matriorb by stealing the nothingness from it.
- Might be a flash but Jossed on the new year dealie.
- By all appearances, we're not going to get that encounter at all.
- Alternatively, experience carries over from before the Scratch. The original Trolls almost completed the game, and the Kids all reached God Tier before or during the Scratch, so they would start at high levels in their new lives as ancestors. This could also be why the Trolls and Alpha Kids seemed to start out more powerful than the original Kids.
- Jossed: They're all dead.
- Jossed: We outright saw John make only 8 children, and the Alpha and Beta bunnies have been confirmed to be completely different. We also saw that meteors from Skaia's green portals went to Earth at various points in time, so again, there is no indication the Beta Ectobabies went to the Alpha Universe.
- The jossing logic was flawed, but the conclusion was correct. Only 8 children were made, but they were sent to alternative points in time.
- Jossed: No title ever repeats in a session, and they all have meaning. The difference between a Witch and a Slyph has yet to be explained, but is seemingly very significant.
- ... Except I actually was about to post this theory- Hello alternate universe me. Adding on to 'my past universe self's' theory, the reason UU wants to sync up the start of their session with the session of the Alphas is because of the boundless help it offers both sides, and UU might want to be the reason his/her universe is created, in similar terms to Vriska wanting to be the reason Bec was protoyped. Nope, no stares at ALL.
- ...why are there PotHoles to Poison Oak Epileptic Trees? Taking everything UU says at face value, this is the one that seems most likely to be true. Which is why it must be wrong!
- She is actually not; she's at least several sessions removed, as she refers to a lot of previous sessions.
- ...why are there PotHoles to Poison Oak Epileptic Trees? Taking everything UU says at face value, this is the one that seems most likely to be true. Which is why it must be wrong!
- The events of mid Act 6 and the conclusion of Act 7 heavily imply this theory is correct.