At some point Aradia's going to run into the Hegemonic Brute from the trolls' session.
And then she'll accidentally (or not-so-accidentally) drag him with her through time to a point where something nasty will happen to him. Which will mean that before ever even running into Eggs and Biscuits "YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL..." already.
- This is quite possible due to Hussie's love of using continuity nods.
- Probably not.
By the time Karkat feels ready to tell all the others about his blood color they'll already know about it.
Gamzee was right there when he was crying, and their tears are the color of their blood. He's too chill to care himself, but he could let it slip to one or twp of the others without thinking about it and then gossip would take over.
- They all eventually go through the Land of Pulse and Blood anyway, so... yeah. But maybe they don't make the association?
- Pulse and Haze. And again, his blood color is a bit of an Open Secret.
Neither 413 nor 612 are actually important.
Instead, they combine to form 1025, the true Arc Number
, which symbolizes the fact that the Kids and Trolls will have to work together to defeat Lord English and escape the game. This hinges on whether something significant in this adventure happens on October 25th.
- And on October 25th we get Alterniabound. Nice.
- And Jade's timer reads 10 minutes, 25 seconds, much to John's confusion. Confirmed?
- Well, confirmed that 1025 is an Arc Number, at least. The clock counting down to the Critical Moment may confirm this theory in full.
- And now the EOA flash is set to come on... 10/25/11.
The Bad Future Spades Slick arrived at by opening the vault in the intermission is actually a GOOD Future.
All of the Felt are dead because this is the future where the Trolls and the Kids got their act together and dealt with Lord English properly.
Also, the super-important treasure the Vault contained? The Troll Black Queen's fully-prototyped ring. Both groups of Exiles, along with their respective Rings, will be instrumental in whatever timey-wimey recursively reachedaround shenanigans this victory requires.
- It's actually the quite ordinary past.
The trolls' and kids' universes are contained in Dave's shades.
One could think that they were within Sollux's shades, because of the zoom in/out at the end of Act 5 Act 1, but this can't be the case because his original shades were likely destroyed along with his body. Dave's shades, on the other hand, are still fine... mostly. When he tossed his own corpse out the window, it fell a great height before hitting the ground. When it did, the shades presumably would have broken. This would destroy both of the universes in them... were it not for the fact that there was still an intact pair existing at the same time. The paradox of the shades being both broken and unbroken at the same time caused the scratch to screw up the trolls, and will presumable do/have done something very bad for the kids, perhaps causing the creation of the Uberbunny and allowing Jack to become godly.
Jade, like Tavros and Gamzee, will not harm any of the imps.
She just doesn't like hurting things, anthromorphically persuaded or otherwise. It's possible that she could befriend them, just by... not murdering them on sight.
- Well, so far the only one she's managed to kill was killed by Bec. But she does seem at least set on taking them out.
- Dave confirms that she's good at killing them.
Read Karkat's response as a complete sentence. The period at the end seems to indicate that it is indeed a complete (poorly worded) sentence.
The kids and the Trolls will meet face-to-face, and somehow manage to fix everything.
Thus, an entire new universe will be spawned, Lord English is defeated, and there are troll-human hybrids as well. Part of this WMG is because it seems entirely plausible, part is because I
want to see a John
and Karkat relationship
, however improbable.
- Also, Jade/Karkat and Dave/Terezi.
- Technically speaking, Jade and Feferi have met face to face. Well, maybe only from Feferi's persepctive.
- Kids and trolls have already met in dreambubbles yep. Also shipping, please keep off the WMG! Too much fighting.
The Guardians are representations of what children believe their Guardians to be like.
This WMG appeared on the Bay12 MSPA discussion, and it makes a good deal of sense to me. After all, to every little boy, his father is the strongest man in the world. Children don't like to admit their parents are just normal people, so they make up crazy stories, like "My Mom is a mad scientist/ ninja/ secret agent," which is rather similar to Rose's mom, who is at least partially confirmed to be a mad scientist. And your big brother (especially if you're a male) is always the coolest guy you know. The outlier is Bec and Grandpa, but could still be explained. After all, some grandparents have these awesome stories about exotic places, like Paris (Texas) and New York. Some children, I suppose, would make up stories about their Grandfather being an Explorer/Hunter/All around cool guy. And Bec, well, he's Jade's dog. Maybe he represents, again, how every child feels about their dog: He's the coolest dog around.
- They genuinely are crazy awesome and do all that shit.
The theoretical Ophiuchus troll is Rose.
Specifically, the troll version of Rose that Kanaya imagines while reading the walkthrough. The callsign for this hypothetical troll is UU, using Uracil to fit with the genetic Theme Naming
; Uracil replaces Thymine in RNA, so TT = UU.
- Probably not, there is no UU yet.
- And when there was, she was nothing like this.
The thirteenth Troll is Hussie himself
Because so far he's done more trolling than the other 12 trolls put together.
- 13th doesn't exist as of current canon.
John is going to have a one-on-one duel with Jack Noir
And since they're both expert pianists, the battle will be accompanied by the sickest piano duet imaginable
- If you're talking a piano duel, in the literal sense, I know some roleplayers who played one a while ago.
- Jack isn't shown to be a pianist. Besides he's completely nuts.
The Cue Balls are Doc Scratch's... balls
The magic cue balls are Doc Scratch's manhood. It's why we've only seen two, and why he got so pissed when he found out Vriska had one. Also why it had his powers and why he could control it like it was part of himself.
- That is disgusting. Also Doc probably doesn't even have sexual organs.
Feferi doesn't interact much with Nepeta because she is afraid of cats
She is, after all, practically a fish.
John and Jade are actually the same person
The plot twist that John and Jade were related to each other leads into this bigger plot twist that they're the same person but from different timelines.
John had a crush on Jade before finding out they were related
- Probably not, considering they seemingly are just platonic best friends.
We have already seen Lord English
Its this thing
. Or at least a statue of him... Or a stuffed severed tentacle that was part of him... straighten it out and it looks (vaguely) like a cue stick...
- Nope, sorry. That's Typhoeus, as he appears in the comic.
- Ah, so that isn't Lord English. Okay new theory (which is actually old and obvious): Typhoeus may be John's Denizen (as suggested by the MSPA wiki here)
- Yes that's confirmed now.
The outer gods didn't have Rose destroy the journals to try and prevent Bec's creation
They did it to force DD? to use Dave's copies, to make sure Jade got his Sburb beta discs. That also explains why they didn't do it in the Bad Future
: With John dead, the beta discs were useless to her and the paradox of her helping Dave enter was eaten for breakfast.
- No they genuinely tried it. And did the above. At the same time. It's confusing.
Diamonds Droog/Draconian Dignity knows the most about Lord English and his plans
Since "Cuestick Genius" is part of his Leitmotif.
Lord English and Jack Noir are the same being
The latest flash game seems to hint heavily toward this direction, since Karkat mentions that he recognized "the demon" that destroyed their universe. Therefore, it's highly probable that "Lord English" is in fact the fully prototyped version of Jack Noir from the kids' session, who somehow ended up being warped into the trolls' session by the rift. The last prototyping (especially if Bec ends up being prototyped) is likely to elevate Noir's power level to Game Breaker
- As of "[s] Jade: Enter," theory
completely confirmed officially inconclusive
- As of later developments; probably not!
The very final page of the comic is named "[S] Kids: Ascend"
"A realm where four will gather, the Heir of Breath and Seer of Light, the Knight of Time and Witch of Space, and together they will Ascend." Sure, Rose is actively fighting against this now, and even the other kids don't seem particularly enthusiastic about it, but... hey, all the best stuff in the comic have come from when the pages are called "Ascend," and it's the very purpose of the game, so...?
- WMG Number two: The final page will be named "[S]Sburb:End" of "[S]Homestuck:End" or similar.
- "[S]John:Reunite with loving wife and daughter".
- The last page will be epilogue so probably not ascend. Considering they'll be grandparents by then.
- Probably Jossed. All four kids are God Tier already.
Bonus points if Vriska gets him to dress up in a mullet and filthy wifebeater beforehand.
- Met with Casey, not Rose, no bunny so no reenactment.
There is a wrong number of players in one or both Sburb sessions
This is actually two WMG, but mostly consist in the idea that the number of players in the Sburb/Sgrub games is “wrong”, causing the problems that the characters face, it can be either just the Kids game or the Trolls game, or both.
The Kids number of players is two short
This caused the glitchs in the game, among other things the shorter spam of time before reckoning and mixed roles (for example the Page of Breath and the Heir of Void are combined in the Heir of Breath A.K.A. John), causing the game malfuction
- This doesn't even make sense. Titles aren't set in stone.
The Troll numbers of players is too short
The Arc Number
is Four-Thirteen, Four kids and Thirteen trolls, but they are missing one troll or maybe a extra player that might appear later that will join the game, but connect itself with the trolls session.
- The Troll's Arc Number is Six-Twelve. There were twelve six-solar sweep old trolls.
The Troll number of players is too big
It can be assumed that more prototypes = more powers to the Black Royals, making the almost impossible game for the trolls. This caused the game too "crash"
- No their predecessors had 48. The trolls were just bitching.
The Noble Circle of Horrorterrors were the players that created the Troll universe
They became its gods, put Gl'bgolyb on one planet to act as an emissary (maybe even on some more planets?), and somehow learned to contact Rose in the kids' session as well.
Skipper Plumbthroat is a subconscious representation of Grandpa Harley.
Also posted on the MSPA IDE/Theory thread. After Grandpa Harley learned how scared Jade is/was/will be (depending on what part of the timeline we's in) of the Gods of the Furthest Ring, he decides to voyage behind the Veil and teach them a lesson or two. Though the Horrorterrors see him as a pathetic, weak mortal with his own problems (as exaggerated by Plumbthroat), they still see him as a threat. He's just that badass.
- That is so awesome that I want it to be true.
- He's apparently the representation of whatever's killing the horrorterrors which is probably Jack.
Kids' Earth is not destroyed, but displaced intentionally with Bec's meteor delay.
As the Guardian of Earth, let modern tech be destroyed, like buildings, but the Earth itself? No, its been moved for safekeeping for a reboot after the Kids' game ends.
- No it's destroyed. Remember the Exiles.
Lord English actually doesn't fit his Cairo Overcoat
This is more misdirection from Hussie. The question is, is the coat too big, or is the coat too small?
It is not Vriska's fault that Bec prototyped himself.
The point is moot whether or not Vriska stopped John from prototyping one of the dolls. Bec would've still prototyped himself in order to save Jade and/or the planet Earth. Really, it's Sburb's fault for giving Jade a ridiculously hard entry item and for sending such a huge meteor Earth's way.
- At the same time, everyone will still blame her.
- Haha no it is her fault entirely. Alpha timeline shit aside, she caused it.
Bec would not have thought to laser Jade's meteor without getting prototyped.
It's stated that creatures such as Bec and Doc Scratch are nigh-omnipotent, but it requires a suitable intellect for them to be nigh-omniscient — an intellect which a dog's brain clearly does not provide. I submit that Bec was always capable
of producing a meteor-destroying energy beam
, but wasn't actually aware of it until he prototyped himself. We know prototyping gives the resulting sprite information about the game (from Davesprite), and it gives them the ability to talk (from the Trolls' session), presumably so that they can share said information with the players. So it would make sense that prototyping could give Bec enough of an intellect boost to grant him the base necessary for his nigh-omniscience, and subsequent knowledge of the full range of his powers.
Jack Noir will fight a Fully Prototyped Spades Slick and Wayward Vagabond
And it will be awesome.
- Er, no. But he will fight a fully prototyped Peregrine Mendicant!
Jack Noir will kill Nannasprite
We know that they're mortal, we know that Jack's going to kill someone else, and we know that Nannasprite is nowhere to be seen when John wakes up. It just adds up.
- Probably not. Noir hid in the Frog Temple, killed most of the exiles, got the blood on his hand from WV, and took off for the troll session without killing Nannasprite.
Dad is the result of combing the DNA/ectoplasm slime of Bro and Grandpa Harley
- Either that or Nana Egbert and Bro. Because the whole relationship stuff wasn't messed up as it was.
- Alternatively, he is derived from the DNA of Colonel Sassacre and Bill Cosby.
- SLIME DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS GOODNIGHT. He is genuinely Nanna's son.
The group will defeat Lord English by prototyping nanna with David's Sord
Because this would be hilarious and ironic.
Vriska will try to steal Clover's luck
Since Clover's so lucky, this doesn't work. Well, unless Vriska is so lucky by that point, that it's guaranteed to work. Or they're both equally lucky, causing a paradox.
- They don't even know the other exists. And she's DEAD.
The current timeline isn't the alpha timeline.
As powerful as Bec-sprite is the timeline is still doomed. Dave has the ability to time travel. At some point in the future it's going to result in either a Heroic Sacrifice
to destroy the meteor, possibly followed by becoming Jade's first prototype, leading to the horrifying but probably preferable situation of many, many, dead Dave-imps. He already reversed the deaths of John and Jade once although that was before the final prototyping.
- The trolls can only communicate with the kids in the alpha timeline. We know that everything up through the windy thing is in the alpha timeline.
All this time travel is eventually going to lead to Dave aging to a noticeable degree.
We see Dave skipping ahead entire hours of his life and a time, doing this multiple times and sometimes skipping what might be half a day in a matter of seconds. It seems convenient now but if he does this on such a regular basis as he is right now he might end up years older than the other kids by the time the comic is over.
- He's only aged 2 days compared to the rest of the Kids before he stopped time looping.
Andrew Hussie is Dave
The real events of the story began on April 13th 2012
. Dave/Hussie is retelling the story of the Kids and Trolls to prepare civilization for the Reckoning, allowing many more people to survive, and he's making it a damn good story so that it gets spread around and is remembered well.
- This is really sad. People I know have genuinely believed this. It's just a story guys.
No ships will be made canon
Hussie will continue to ship tease all the way until the end, but we'll never get any definitive answers.
- WK/WQ and Dad/Mom are canon.
Vriska's gambling addiction has reached Omnicidal Level
It is clear that Vriska's gambling problem, mixed with own insecurity, will eventually lead to the destruction of all reality. The latest comics showing that she used her powers to mind control the Courtyard Droll of the Kid's session to indirectly influence the the Draconian Dignitary to create Becquerel in the first place is pretty damning evidence of her own slipping sanity. The trigger of this is inconsequential, but this further proof that that she is directly responsible for Bec Noir/Jacquerel in the first place and consequentially for the Scratch. The reason? Like Magus wanting to summon Lavos
, her only goal is to defeat Jacquerel, but unlike Magus, who did it for revenge, Vriska's only doing for petty glory and to boost her own long deteriorated self-esteem.
The Felt, as an orchestra, perform the Music of the Spheres, relating to perfect harmony; kill the Felt, kill the harmony, kill the order, as desired by the chaotic forces known as Horror Terrors
Two things behind this assumption-one, the Felt soundtrack, and two, this wiki entry
which has astrology as a link in the upper-right. Now, considering the Trolls are based around the Zodiac, and they're important, this will become further explored in a future act, if Hussie decides to choose so. Plus, when they are explored, the Felt soundtrack will be played in flashes forward and backwards relative to the act.
- The Felt album is dubiously non-canon. In canon proper, the Felt are really just a bunch of thugs.
Jade's power will be the ability to teleport, much like Bec did.
Lord English (or Vriska?) caused John's house to be built without a garage
If John's house had a garage, his dad would have parked in it. To my knowledge, people usually leave their cars unlocked when they're in a garage. Therefore, if John's house had a garage, he would have had the bunny the whole time, meaning Jack couldn't take power, the Trolls' session wouldn't have broken, and everything would generally have gone better. Therefore, it is possible that a being of power managed to abuse weird time shit to ensure their own existence, simply by subconciously convincing an architect that garages were just a fad.
- Maybe John's garage just was full of shit like a lot of peoples.
The Royal Derringer is alchemized from the LEGENDARY PIECE OF SHIT, or forged from it by Hephaestus
I have no idea what Dave would alchemize for it, though... Perhaps a copy of Lord of the Rings?
- It's native to the mythologies of Sburb and Lohac, and it's the reforged Caledfwlch.
Jade's grandson is part Troll
Cause remember, if Dave and Jade have a kid, and then that kid and John and Rose's kid have a kid, that'll be incest. With the trolls, there will much more room for reproduction, and things could go fine for a couple generations afterwords. Perhaps Jade will
hook up with Tavros? Also...
- Elaborating: first-generation offspring would be double-first cousins.
- His interest in wrestling John seems to point towards Equius.
- Judging by recent conversations...Karkat?
- Equius is dead, Tavros is dead, so it really just remains to be seen.
- Jossed by Act 6
All the kids will contact their respective human-troll grandchildren.
- Remains to be seen still
- Extremely doubtful as of Act 6.
Ms. Paint and Cal represent actual people in Adnrew Hussie's life.
Ms. Paint represents either his girlfriend and/or the combined positive attributes of every single girlfriend he ever had in his entire life. Cal, on the otherhand, represents someone he truly hates in real life and/or the combined negative attribute of every person he has ever met.
- Ms. Paint was a character that was thrown in to placate Ryan North and that the fandom ran with. Make of that what you will.
Vriska and Snowman are somehow connected (or the same person)
Both have an 8 motif, and both are described by those who know them as BLUH BLUH HUGE BITCH
- Vriska's Exile is the Black Queen, who becomes Snowman. So...confirmed?
- Similarities yes, but they already existed.
Serenity is Jade
The recently translated Morse Code messages from Serenity bring some interesting parallels to light... and we've seen Vriska...
- No she's not; Serenity has probably already been exiled from the game. Besides Serenity isn't much like Jade at all.
Dream Jade's friends were Tavros, Feferi, and Kanaya.
And maybe Bro was keeping an eye on them. Don't you think they would all be happy together? They all needed it...*sniff sniff*. Sorry, there's Sand in My Eyes
- They were probably the dead alternates of the Kids. Besides, Bro wouldn't appear in dream bubbles.
The influence of Bec Noir on the Trolls is driving them all slowly insane.
Think about it- Eridan was always the Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain
, until he arrived in the lab, and his emotional failings became too much to bear in Bec's thrall, creating pure rage that made him kill Feferi, Kanaya and the Matriorb. Gamzee was angry for the first time when he went into the lab, and then we get him telling us through pesterlog that TC: I AM GOING TO MOTHERFUCKING KILL ALL YOU MOTHERFUCKERS. Are they all insane?
- This is probably likely to be jossed. They also lack sopor slime, which except for a couple of the trolls, was something they always slept in. Gamzee's Face-Heel Turn is directly related to this, as he brings up the dealings of his ancient ancestors, which the slime is meant to suppress.
- Not to mention all of the high bloods are prone to mental instability; Feferi and Equius mention how lucky they are to have avoided that.
Gamzee's cuts at zero hour weren't made by cat claws...
This trooper thinks the cuts might have been made by a sickle. Meaning there must have been a fight between him and Karkat, and considering Gamzee's state of mind right now, I doubt he would let Karkat live if he won.
- No they were directly caused on panel by Nepeta's claws.
When Doc Scratch told Karkat not to turn his back on the body, he wasn't talking about those in the room... at the moment.
My theory is that he's referring to Gamzee, as he was bleeding come Zero Hour
. Karkat mostly kills him, presumes he's dead, then gets clubbed from behind after he turns his back on him to check on one of the kids, or something.
- Remains to be seen, probably meant Kanaya though.
wasn't Future Terezi, but Future Gamzee
Presuming he just pilfered Terezi's glasses here.
Nepeta's dream will have a consequence in reality
going to see Equius soon.
However, Aradia presumably still has the power to hear spirits, so she might just see Equius's ghost. Then again, Valentine's Day is coming up, and Andrew is suspiciously not referring to Aradia in his Formspring when he talks about Equius being a one-note gag character, so who knows?
- Aradia is hanging around dreambubbles. She hasn't been seen with Equius yet.
At least about SGRUB, at any rate. We're going to get a later revelation that if the troll's did
follow their instincts and kill one another they would have quickly became a null session. Or that if they did follow their instincts they would actually learn to overcome them. Especially since most of the troll's current problems come from things they DIDN'T deal with in their session.
- Vriska's idea was incorrect, and that was simply part of her own struggle to find her identity.
The folks in the afterlife WILL come back to the living plane at some point, under some circumstance
The interlude with Dead Dave, Tavros, and Aradia seemed rather irrelevant to the plot; they must
become more important at some point, and the most likely way they'll be able to do that is by coming back to life in one way or another. And Hussie has worked with Death Is a Slap on the Wrist
- Remember though, the DEAD trolls aside from Vriska are all Flat Characters; from the point of the story there's no real reason for them to come back aside from fan complaints. Besides, they seem to really enjoy dreambubbles and likely wouldn't want to come back.
Rose will use the Magnetic Wodka to defeat Gamzee.
"You... You guess
this could be useful?"
This Chekhov's Gun
has been waiting to fire for far too long. And we all know that Juggalos
and magnets don't mix.
- Rose's land is completely abandoned by everyone. Gamzee was taken down by Karkat.
Jack had an ulterior motive besides just power for taking the Black Queen's ring.
Bro's glasses, Lil Cal, now the hat, pipe and scarf? Jack takes trophies from all his kills
. His first just happened to make him into a deity.
- The trophy binges were just a bit of the crow prototyping peeking through.
The Guardians had foreknowledge of their own deaths
It's certainly implied, especially when Dad leaves his wallet for John to find.
- Probably not considering they were apparently caught offguard and put up little fight. Aside from Bro who was overpowered.
The Heir/Page/Etc of Breath not only has power over wind, but can breathe life back into people as well.
This might explain why "the windy thing" effect was seen coming out of Tavros' mouth when he tried to revive Vriska. It may also explain how John sees his father again the way Vriska said he would.
- No, that's inherent to any player. The windy thing from Tavros was simply him using his own powers.
Jadesprite and Jack Noir will cancel each other out.
According to Vriska, Becquerel is unable to go against Derse agents. Jadesprite is partially Becquerel due to prototyping, so she couldn't hurt Jack. Similarly, Jack cannot kill Jade due to Bec's prototyping.
- So just throw them against each other and watch them explode.
- However, Jack is probably a good deal more powerful since he has the abilities of having four tiers (well, technically five since Jaspersprite was double prototyped before entering the medium) of prototyping on top of his first guardian powers versus Jadesprites two prototype tiers and first guardian powers. But still neither would be able to kill the other.
Trolls & Ancestors
Warning! This one is long. Let's start with the basics first.
1. Trolls procreate by mixing genetic material together and having a surrogate Mother Grub give birth to the children.
2. There are two classes of procreation pairings. Caliginous and Flushed. Trolls must submit material for both.
3. The feelings that cause these pairing provide stronger genetic matches and have a better chance of producing an offspring.
These are the simple biological facts we learned. Now one last fact: A troll has one ancestor they are MOST like as they share the MOST amount of DNA.
But one thing these facts tell us though, is that troll genetic material (like ours) is one half of the whole. There needs to be (at least) two parents (in genetic terms). Now the problem: The Ancestors and the Trolls we know were created through ectobiology. Like the kids and guardians, I think that Karkat used the paradox slime of the Ancestors to first create their respective paradox clones. That's the easy part. Now the paradox slime is combined in a tank. Similar to kids, but with one exception. There is only one tank, not one for each pairing. Because this is how Troll biology works. The slurry thing.
Now assume this is true (even though I'm not 100% sure that it is up til this point). In the slurry, the genetic pairs form into twelve pairs (6 Flushed and 6 Caliginous). So each Ancestor has their biological material mixed up in two young Trolls (one from a flushed pairing and one from a caliginous pairing). I would also guess it would form a sort of giant daisy chain rather that several smaller daisy chains, just because it fits well.
I think this also explains some of the slight differences between the Trolls and their Ancestors.
Example 1: Vriska isn't quite up to the level of villainy as Mindfang; she seems a little bit too dramatic and a few of her plans prior to entering SGRUB are sort of a joke. Now what if Vriska was caused by the genetic material of Mindfang and Dualscar's Caliginous relationship. While the bulk of Vriska comes from Mindfang, but maybe her Big Ham
side comes from Dualscar.
Example 2: Feferi's Ancestor is the Condesce. Feferi's a lot more accepting and wants to abolish the caste system to a certain extent. She almost wants to bring things to the way they were prior to the scratch. This may be because of the major Black Feelings toward the highbloods that the Suffer had on his death mixed his gentic material with the Condesce's genetic material.
Before your say that Karkat is the Suffer's descendant, remember I pointed out that each Ancestor has two descendants (one Flushed and one Caliginous). So yeah that still works. And this also doesn't sink any ships due to genetic relationships, it isn't called an incestuous slurry for nothing, folks. The troll takes on primary traits (blood color, appearance, basic personalities) from one parent and secondary traits from the other.
- Irrelevant anyways; the Ancestors are the genetic children of the Trolls and their Ectobiology lab prominently showed 2 tubes which means this six timing stuff can't possibly be true.
- It still could be, but instead of a do-decagon like I was imagining it would be two hexagons. Still works in the case of two tubes for combination.
- And I don't remember seeing a panel that outright states in which order the Ancestors and Trolls were actually made. A key point about the Ancestors' scratch dealt with the fact: they weren't playing the session they were created in and thus always destined to scratch the game (Doc Scratch mentions this being the Glitch that marks Lord English's target, his calling card). So maybe the Ancestors were always meant to be the Ancestors and therefore the ones that appearified for the paradox slime. Though really this is speculation based on the facts, my wild guess was the fact that 6 of the trolls were born from redrom feelings and the other 6 from blackrom whether this refers to the Ancestors or Trolls doesn't really matter it just would have made my guess a paragraph longer to explain that possible wrinkle.
John is being manipulated by everyone.
John is clueless as to what is going on in SBURB, so my guess is taking advantage of that and are manipulating him to their own ends:
- Rose is probably trying to figure out how to get someone with a server copy so that she can revive her dead cat Jaspers in the form of the Kernelsprite. (Gardengnostic mentioned she had a vision of a game that would bring Jaspers back). At first she tried to get it from John's Dad's car, but that fell into the Abyss, so she turned to Dave. (Well, that and the Forest Fire).
- Confirmed, though whether that had anything to do with her dealings with John is unknown.
- Dave probably just wants to inflate his ego through John's Stupidity, but this remains to be seen.
- GG has likely had visions of the future she's trying to stop; however, we haven't seen much as of yet.
- Jossed. Jade isn't trying to stop any of her visions from happening; if anything she's caused them to happen.
- Nannasprite appears to want John to get to Skaia. Why remains to be seen.
- The Vagabound is likely an idiot.
- As an aside, John's Dad seems to know more than he lets on, judging by all the meteor-related newspaper clips in the recently opened safe.
- Jossed - Sburb didn't cause the meteors at all, except indirectly. They are a side effect of the Reckoning, and some have been sent back much earlier than ten years.
Later we see this is basically Canon, although not any of the stuff being used here, aside from Rose.
The four kids represent Dawn, Noon, Twilight, and Midnight
This is really just a combination of two of the concepts repeated above: that John and Jade represent Light, while Rose and Dave represent Darkness, and that the kids all have their guardians figured out wrong. The idea is that when they truly understand their guardians, their alignments will shift.
- John is currently Light. He is discovering that his father is not a clown-obsessed weirdo as he thought, but was just trying to support his son's interests. Understanding this will improve his relationship with Dad, securing his place in the Light. John is Noon.
- Rose is currently Dark. She may eventually discover that her mother isn't constantly mocking her; she's just a very damaged woman who is really trying her best. Understanding this will improve her relationship with Mom, moving her towards the light. Rose is Dawn.
- Dave is currently Dark. He thinks his brother appreciates creepy stuff ironically, but will eventually discover that it's not ironic: he really is a perverted freak. Understanding this will worsen his relationship with Bro, securing his place in the Darkness. Dave is Midnight.
- Jade is currently Light. She thinks that Becquerel genuinely loves and cares for her, but may eventually discover that he is only doing his duty to protect one of the chosen ones (I hope he's not, though). Understanding this will worsen her relationship with Bec, moving her towards the Darkness. Jade is Twilight.
- Okay, update based on the Mediums we've seen: John and Dave's are clearly Dark, while Rose's is Light, and Jade's probably will be too. So John is Twilight, Rose is Dawn, Dave is Midnight, and Jade is Noon.
- Pretty much jossed. The darkness and light dichotomy comes more from Prospit versus Derse and entails a lot of similarities, for instance Rose and Dave are both self destructive while John and Jade are much more cautious. Also, Rose has moved even closer to the dark (or rather grimdark) and the effects of Bec's prototyping on Jack show that, yes, Bec really did care for Jade.
John's Sburb group is the only one with four members
Like the above WMG said, The computer that allegedly connect to the trolls are divided into 4 groups of 3. If they're all playing Sburb then we can be lead to believe that they are helping each other out.
- 4 seems to be the minimum for a session, aside from potentially 2. However it seems any even number can be used, and there are a few offhand references suggesting the Troll's creators were part of a 48 player session.
- Jossed with the Alpha Session.
The kids' Titles are based on what they will face/become rather than what they are now.
It has already been established that John is the Heir, and Rose is the Seer of Light. However, this seems to contrast directly with their characters, especially since Jade is both more cheerful and a psychic. Ergo, the Title given to each kid foreshadows character development:
- John, as The Heir, must come to terms with, and accept, his father's love.
- Rose, as The Seer of Light, must learn to see beyond sarcasm and accept things as they really are (including her mother's probably non-ironic love).
- Dave, as The Knight, must learn to appreciate legitimate good qualities rather than simply wallowing in irony.
- Jade, as The Witch, must accept death and darkness in a more mature manner.
- As of Act 5, this is looking pretty good
- And then it was looking bad because they all actually did these things before the game started. Dave's quest for instance is more about asserting himself as his own person instead of trying to be his Bro or trying to be John. John's quest seems to be mostly derping around and becoming a leader.
Strider killed the dinosaurs
Think on it. There is a truly massive meteor impact aimed for somewhere in the pacific ocean, which is quite possibly Jade's island. And yet the frog temple is still standing. Now at one point
we see a meteor land where the frog temple will be years in the past, before there is a temple there. The Meteor has clearly been warped in from somwhere/when. It's possible that Strider, for some reason or another, warped the meteor back in time (saving Jade's house from firey doom). The vast explosion caused the extinction of the dinosaurs as we know it, and also marks a difference in the timeline from ours.
As to why Strider is the one who warped this meteor back in time, ask yourself: Who else is badass enough to have killed the dinosaurs?
- Jossed in later canon, Dave has nothing to do with Sburb porting meteors
Rose's interpretation of her Mother's actions are off the mark.
All of Rose's Mother's supposed attempts at one-upping her- buying the expensive frame for her crude drawing, getting tons of W magnets, "ironically" cleaning the house- are actually over the top attempts to compensate for her drinking problem. Her "Ironic Negligence" attack was actually an addled and misguided attempt to be friendly- she's been drinking so long, she doesn't know how else to interact with people. The end of act 2 supports the idea that she cares about Rose more than we've been led to believe, as she opened the mausoleum door for her and seems to be willing to make a heroic sacrifice by staying in the house.
- In the same way that Dave's Bro is probably being in no way ironic and really is just a weirdo with a disturbing love of puppets, Rose's Mom is not being ironic at all, she's just going way over the top in her efforts to be a good housewife and mother. Or, as noted, she's just drunk, but not so drunk that she can't activate secret passages.
- John's finally gotten into his Dad's bedroom, and it turns out it's NOT the harlequin-filled hellhole he thought it was. Dad probably has all those harlequins because he genuinely thinks John likes them.
- As of Act 5 and Mom's death, it seems that Rose wasn't being serious at all and truly cared for her mother.
- "Cared for" doesn't necessarily mean "didn't believe they were locked in passive-agressive battle".
- Assuming the Alpha!kids are a guide to the Beta!guardians, it looks like Mom really did love wizards and wasn't being intentionally passive-agressive (Roxy thinks Alpha!Mom is passive-agressive, but has no interest in escalating into the sort of war Rose thought she was having). Dirk, on the other hand, turns out to be genuinely attempting the multiple levels of irony Dave believed of Beta!Bro ... and is also a puppet-obsessed weirdo.
Dave's dreamself will be killed
Thus explaining why John gets more powerful than him by the end, despite time travel shenanigans.
- Somewhat Jossed, since it turns out John made to God Tier and Dave didn't have the courage to kill himself to go through a transformation.
- Update: Dave's dreamself has been awakened as the replacement for a dead Dave. Considering that either Rose or Dave has to die destroying the Green Sun, this may be almost simultaneously completely Jossed and very much alive.
- Further update: Both Dave's and Rose's dream selves were killed while creating the Green Sun, and then resurrected as God Tiers.
The recently kidnapped Aradiabot was swiped by Jade's space warping powes, and will be then occupied by Jadesprite.
- If Jade really is killed (vide previous WMG), Jadesprite will have to pick up her slack somehow.
- Jossed, all of the Aradiabots shown so far have either been reduced to scrap or destroyed by Jack.
Each Kid's relationship with their Guardian demonstrates a quadrant of troll romance
John was raised by a loving and playful father in the healthiest environment of the four. This corresponds to matesprit and the flushed quadrant which is based on reproduction. Similarly, Rose's relationship with her mother demonstrates kismesis, spiteful love. Jade was raised by her best friend, clear moraillaince, while Dave was raised by and intermediary between himself and his brother, demonstrating auspiciticiousness or however the fuck you spell that last one.
- Uh... All of the Kids, save for maybe Dave, very much loved their Guardians. Jade especially loved Bec. It seems maybe you could argue platonic love... but moiraillegiance isn't about simple platonic love, it's more accurately someone being a Morality Chain, which isn't at all present in Jade's relationship to Bec for instance. Secondly, it also doesn't match up with the suites assigned to each kid, John is Spades, Dave is Hearts, Jade is Diamonds, and Rose is Clubs. But most importantly, Andrew had no idea the trolls existed when he created the Guardians, so if anything, the Troll romances reflect the relationships with the Guardians, not the other way around.
The scratch will switch the personality of the kids.
Seeing as it works as a reset button and it will change conditions as said here
this would be logical if Hussie decides to make it as well, and the fandom will love it or hate it.
Rose will go blind.
She's the Seer of Light
, for Pete's sake.
One of the Derse dreamers, most likely Rose, will destroy Derse.
Rose will somehow discover that Jack has agents on Derse. It's never been stated that dreamselves don't have the abilities of the original, so she will do something to destroy the planet, most likely killing Dream Dave by accident in the process. This is the event that causes Jack to succumb to unfathomable bloodlust.
- While I don't think that Derse will be destroyed by Rose's direct action, I do agree that the destruction of this Derse would cause Jack to lose it since that would kill the Draconian Dignitary, his apparent friend and likely moirail, maybe even the Droll too. With the loss of his last calming factors (besides possibly Rose and Jade due to the personality carry overs of Jaspers and Becquerel) and friend Jack would be more than justified in his rampage through the troll's session. In light of this, I think Rose will simply kill the Draconian Dignitary to make Jack feel her pain, and it will succeed beyond her wildest imagination. Thus the blood on Jack's hand that is seen when he enters the troll's session will be DD's blood, which will get there as Jack checks on his dying friend. As he escapes the scratch, his anger will be compounded by the fact that he is apparently unable to strike at the source of his misery (Rose.)
- Jack doesn't really care that much about Droog. Notice when Slick thought Droog and the rest of the Crew were dead in the intermission; he didn't even give it two thoughts and just went back to his own business. Slick would arguably be even more compassionate than a normal Jack Noir, because he's had Character Development by that point.
- Slick is the Trolls' Jack, so this is irrelevant (the character development/not caring about the other Midnight Crew guys) to the conversation at hand (re Bec Noir, the kids' Jack).
- Slick and Jack are still very similar, and comparisons between them aren't invalid. Andrew himself thinks so, having said the main reason Slick appeared was as a preview of Jack's villainous nature. And again, Slick himself would likely be more compassionate than Jack, having had Character Development and interactions with the Red Team. At any rate, this WMG is Jossed, both of them go on the suicide mission.
Kanaya has said that after the black out, she couldn't see Rose afterward. Now that she's gone all Grim Dark
due to the Horror Terrors, she really can Screw Destiny
now. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen.
- The Elder Gods are just another faction in the You Can't Fight Fate. And indeed according to Doc, this was her fate.
Jade's Grandson is descended in some way from both Jade and Dave, and is also Lord English
Lord English's Greatcoat is made of felt plush by the look of it, and the symbol near the lapel is of an eight ball
that is cracked in the same manner as the record on Dave's clothes. We only see a magic eight ball in Jade's room to boot. From the hints we can see in the letter Jade's supposed grandson gave to John, with green meaning to grow and red meaning to shrink. Colours associated with Jade and Dave, Jade who's boundless energy has been known to make things literally grow, and Dave, who's profuse ego has constantly been shrinking since the beginning of the game.
- That eight ball is actually the one on Dave's Felt Duds (Which... He apparently managed to make at some point, since doomed!Dave was wearing them?) It's not the first time Hussie has self-inserted dressed as one or more of his characters.
- Lord English is a time traveling demon from beyond any one universe. Why would he be the son of a player? Beyond that, English has only ever shown or implied time powers, which has no connection to Jade.
- Jossed, despite her "grandson" being named Jake English.
John has a Dersite dreamself
Just like Sollux. After dying, his new dreamself will awaken in a Crowning Moment of Awesome
- I think you are forgetting that God Tiers can only really die if their death was Heroic or Just. John's BAMKATANACHESTSTABDIE was neither heroic nor just. So he's probably not really dead, just unconscious from the shock brought on by the very sudden stabbing and bloodloss, as would be normal if you were stabbed through the heart, except of course he's going to skip out on the whole dying part and just wake up once the wound heals.
- It's debatable, because he was fighting an unfightable foe, a heroic cause if ever there was. Nevertheless, John doesn't have a Derse dreamself, there are only 2 towers. If you compare the troll's Derse and Prospit, their Derse has 5 towers and Prospit 7, so if it were a similar situation to Sollux, we would've already seen it.
- John revives via god powers
Guessing the name of John's sweet-ass new hammer
- Since it very clearly is a combination of The Warhammer of Zillyhoo and Vriska's Doomsday Device(Amongst other possible things, including the Flourite Octet)
- My guess is either "Zillyhoo Destiny", "The Warhammer of Scorpio", or "The Killing Joke"
- It has at the bare minimum, Vriska's horn (on the tip), her symbol, the doomsday device, the Warhammer of Zillyhoo, and the handle from Ahab's Crosshairs. My bet is that Vriska gave him the code for Mindfang's journals, so maybe something like Spinerette's Crushing Blow or something odd like that. However odds are it will go unamed unless Andrew confirms via Word of God what it is.
- One Fan Fiction dubbed it the Arachnid's Grip after Vriska's chat handle.
- Fluorite Octet + Pop-a-matic Doomsday Cascader + Quills of Echinda + Warhammer of Zillyhoo = Fluoromatic Quillyhoo
- Jossed; Hussie referred to it as the "Pop-A-Matic Vrillyhoo Hammer" here.
Dave becomes Lord English
- On the Cairo Overcoat there is an 8-ball that is broken the same way as Daves record.
- That was a self referential thing by Andrew, probably not canon.
- The Felt have time based powers.
- Lord English can mess with space. So can anything created with Daves comics.
- English can't mess with space, he's an immortal demon of Time. Any of his other powers would be over Reality itself.
- Daves Felt Duds.
- All the above stuff is silly; but based on a dreamchatlog between Dave and Rose...possibly? By flying into the Green Sun, Dave may suicide to deliver the Tumor, becoming Lord English in the process, possibly through an irregular ascension to God Tiers. The Felt are based on whatever video game or show that created the poster on Dave's wall. Some possible support for this
- Rose mentions that one person's death is integral to the preservation of Reality itself, and it's seemingly connected to the mission to the Green Sun
- Dave's dream that he flew into the Sun to escape from his constant meaningless deaths
- Karkat mentions Dave is way better with time stuff than Aradia ever was.
- Aradia's ascension was in the embers of Bec Noir's green explosion. There could be a parallel in Dave's transformation into English in the Green Sun.
- The only known immortals are god tiered players; it's possible that by becoming English, Dave's just or heroic requirements for death would be impossible, as English would be above morality. That would explain that the only reason Slick could be able to kill him would be through glitches in reality
- Doc is already based on Cal and SBAHJ, it wouldn't be that hard to imagine English is doing everything as some sort of tier 14 ironic gesture.
- Dawn of Man from Mobius Trip and Hadron Kaleido is possibly about Dave becoming English, the last few lines are "It's been a long long time since the day I was born. It's been a long long time and yet no time at all (x2) If anyone's out there to see what I have done...can somebody tell me what I to become? Our tiny lives, they fly right by. Who were they, and next to them, who the hell am I?"
- Rose having been accosted by DD?, Dave's off to save her. He seems incredibly upset and insistent that he must be the one on the mission, and it takes alot for Rose to convince him to abandon it.
- Jossed by [S] Cascade
Should Dave die, his brain in a jar will be deployed in one of Jade's/Equius's spare robots.
Seriously, it's one of the few things created in an alchemization session that hasn't even been used for a joke yet.
- Unlikely post-God Tier. And it was used to create the S Ba H Jifier, remember?
Just another layer of time loops for the former. That is, if Jade and John don't go back to the beginning of a new Scratched session, but instead go to before the existence of the Earth. Notice how much Skaia looks like Earth? THEY COULD PLANT IT THERE. Keep in mind, they're both immortal. They could wait. I don't know if the presence of a First Guardian indicates that a session had previously been Scratched, but that would probably support the theory by allowing for yet another Stable Time loop. Again. Not sure how it would work with the Trolls, of course. They had no Space-empowered being to do this for them. Unless I'm missing something... their pre-Scratch Ancestors, maybe? ...Or their own selves, pre-Scratch?!
I guess the fact that neither Jade nor John have time-based powers makes this one just a tad difficult. But I'm wondering why they don't transport to same moment they're in, but in the Scratched session. Apparently they do go back in time, but the first page of Homestuck is a bit more... symbolic... than, like, a field of stars.
And due to current events, it seems like the bifurcated session is not abnormal, but necessary towards the empowerment of First Guardians. The end is the beginning is the end, apparently. It follows a progression of Stable Time Loops, starting with small things (in the session, yeah, but I'm still confused as to the function of loops and the properties of time in the Universes that were just destroyed), move onto larger loops, until we see not only the loops in a Universe, an Incisiphere, or the series of creation that each (average) session partakes in, but the Outer Ring as well, or maybe even beyond that. It makes sense that Lord English would operate in a Timey Wimey Ball without any trouble, but also that he would not, depending on the level of involvement on his part towards The Game itself, waste a single session. It also turns the kid's from ants (in English's eyes, who would probably think that), to a much more important cog in the clock of English's plans.
This theory pretty much gives English a lot more credibility as a villain for me. He'd be responsible for everything! In a more specific way! His powers don't require him to actually view things in a "cause -> effect" manner. The two sessions and Universes were always bifurcated, always at the beginning of his plans and empowerment of his servants, and always at the end, taking place in what appears to be the cul-de-sac on the road of the whole game he's created. The beginning is the end is the beginning. The only good news I can see is that, if the remaining characters are destined to win, they're destined to win. Death of English would take place at the beginning and the end, and that is NOT too crazy a concept for Homestuck. The actual properties of this man are probably still unknown (Hussie's benefit for creating some new laws of physics and not being required to explain them), as well as the question of the destructibility of the Green Sun. CAN it be destroyed, at all? Is it necessary to?
I suggest we wait for the next update with Jade and John, as well as everyone else. Because that could disprove everything. Ha-durp.
- Hussie has said that the progression of images shown by the wall were being flashed by Lord English's coat, and are only symbolic of the Scratch undoing everything that has happened in the story.
The Jade from Davesprite's timeline will be Lord English's new servant.
Never once have we received solid evidence that she's dead. And it's certainly within Lord English's power to keep her alive even though she's from a doomed timeline. Besides, we still don't know what exactly happened to Betty Crocker.
Plus, she could very easily be alive in Davesprite's timeline. There's no doubt that Bec would try to protect her like he did in [S] Jade: Enter. After that, it would be fairly easy for her to find food and water, given Bec's teleportation abilities. As for shelter, she could just use her house, if it still existed. It would probably even have power, too, since its energy source is the nearby volcano. If not, she could use the Frog Temple, like AR did.
- Word of God is that that Jade died. Also there is no food or water on Earth; the only food and drink were from the Medium and super old.
Jaspers went to the future
Rose couldn't find Jaspers during the week he was missing, which means he didn't exist
during that time, which means he must have been Appearified to years in the future (but not many), where he aids the future nomads, but ends up being killed, his dying wish being to be Sendificated back to Rose.
- He went to some other girl and was her pet for a while. Not the future though because he probably would've mentioned the sand.
The Scratch didn't simply reset the kids' universe, it loaded an imperfect backup copy into the session's space
How can the universe be reset when it's been exploded by Bec Noir, and that explosion used as part of THE TUMOR bomb? Because it wasn't. The original universe was completely destroyed. But since the SBURB session itself was in its own pocket dimension, the Scratch was used to cannibalize the universe creating power of that version of Skaia into a copy of the now destroyed kids' universe. All Skaia had were imprints of the original universe from the minds of the kids, which is why such weird changes have occurred, like Betty Crocker becoming even more prominent, as it was such a strong impression in John's head.
- The universes and the sessions responsible or spawned from them are independent (factors of 'real space' whereas sessions are part of Paradox Space). Jade brought most of the Kid's session with her as she escaped between fourth walls, while in her miniature planet collection the scratch completed itself.
- Outright Jossed by later in Act 6. Skaia created the post-Scratch session by changing the destination of the meteors.
Jadesprite has the memories of Jade from the same Alternate Future Davesprite came from.
She thinks that both she and John are dead, and that nothing in the clouds were true. Seems to match up perfectly with the alternate timeline where they both DO die, and the cloud predictions seem to be for the alpha timeline. Not to mention, if Davesprite is still alive, this could mean a touching reunion scene.
- She thinks they're both dead because she assumed they died when Prospit hit Skaia. The one from the beta timeline would be a separate Jade, after all, Jade prototyped the corpse from the alpha session, so the Past!Alpha!Dream!Jade was pulled back, but had experienced at least 13 years in Heaven or whatever. Confused?
Jadesprite will destroy the Green Sun.
It seems to me like Jadesprite would be happier if she was still dead. If she sees it that way, then she would probably be willing to sacrifice herself in this manner, especially because it prevents her friends from dying.
- Jossed, it is apparently going to be Dave. Possibly Rose but all signs are pointing at Dave.
- Never mind that, it's Rose after all. Point is, not Jadesprite.
- This is Dave/Rose distraction is most likely a ruse. There is another.
- Kinda would be hard for her to blow it up without a bomb right?
- All of the above have been Jossed. Dave AND Rose CREATED the Green Sun.
Davesprite will destroy the Green Sun.
- Since he's recently been confirmed as still kicking, consider this comic (Alpha) Dave made with the SBAHJifier while taking a picture of his alternate future self + this dream he talked about with Rose months earlier.
TG: theres not even much more to it
TG: i looked up into the sky
TG: didnt see anyone singing
TG: but even though the sky was black i could see the sun
TG: it was bright as hell even through my shades
TG: so i flapped my wings and flew up away to it like a fucking piece of garbage
TG: and thats it
TT: This doesn't strike you as an impulse of self destruction?
TG: not in the sense that it was a dark sacrificial zoology mission
TG: it was more like somewhere to go besides watching myself die a lot from the vantage of a feathery murder of dumb shitty birds
- He's going to go since he's a) tired of seeing so many dead Daves around and b) figures he's technically doomed anyway. Judging by the comic foreshadowing I'm guessing (Alpha) Dave will try engaging him in a duel (rather, 'show him [his] chops') to see who will go and who will stay, but Davesprite will just leave his ass hanging mid-fight or something and ascend to save the session. (Bonus points if it ends up being a Callback to Terezi and Vriska's standoff.)
- Not really especially considering Rose's on the mission.
- Don't be so quick to dismiss that— we don't know she's actually left yet. Let's not forget the fact that Davesprite is currently in possession of a Royal Derringer. The same one Alpha Dave recently used to cut the moon's chain, perhaps? NEW THEORY: Davesprite actually steals the mission from her instead.
- Officially Jossed: Davesprite is talking with Jadesprite about some other plan. He's also mentioned he's more or less about to die.
The SBURB games are counting down.
- The special number in the Troll's game? 612. 6+1+2= 9. The Kid's game? 413. 4+1+3= 8. My guess is, there can only be 7 games after this.
- Alpha is 11 11 11 or 2X3 either way thats 6 so maybe it's not exactly in order, what with the timey-whimey and whatnot.
- Unless the 7th game was the one that "created" the Alpha session. At least, we know UU is or has been in a session of her own.
- Jossed by UU's exposition; after the Alpha Session, trolls go on to play Sburb many more times.
The First Guardians ARE capable of commiting suicide.
The reason Doc Scratch can't is because it would stop LE from coming into power.
- Nope. Doc's death is the trigger to bring LE into the universe, no matter what. He is physically incapable of harming himself.
The Angel's from Eridan's planets served no actual purpose.
They were more like cuccos
- They tied into his Myth Arc but he perverted it.
- They may have been his consorts.
- Consorts have always been reptiles and much more different from the way the angels are presented. They seem to be like the fireflies in the Land of Wind and Shade, or the brains in the Land of Brains and Fire.
The horrorterrors are actually Bilious Slick.
That is to say, they are universes created by past sessions. Every session of SBURB is in fact a Horrorterror spore (or something) and while Bilious looks AT FIRST to be a frog..... seriously, how does a frog become the universe?
- He contains the universe inside himself.
- This would explain what's killing them.
- Ah yes the progenitor frog natural predator of the tentacled space horror. Actually wait this being Homestuck that makes a lot of sense. Perhaps Skipper Plumbthroat is the Kid's frog?
- B. Slick lives in the remains of Skaia, so he seems to be the exact opposite of what this WMG describes.
Aside from attempting to humanely imprison John's father, the imps mostly want to use his backyard rides, play with toys, and defend themselves when assaulted with hammers. We've not seen the minions of light yet. We have no reason to assume they're necessarily better, anymore than the white pieces in chess are any more noble or righteous than the black ones.
- It's also been demonstrated by WV, who is almost certainly a Dark Kingdom denizen (or used to be, anyway), that not all the black imps are inherently evil.
- Then there's Rose, the Seer of Light, who dabbles in Black magic. At least one, if not both, apply to her.
- Light is very much good, Prospit at least. There are no minions of Prospit; the players fulfill that role in a sense. Dark however is mostly Affably Evil, but there are some complete monsters there and the higher ups want to destroy reality entirely.
Only John will attain God-Tiers
but the other party members are going to get the other Prototyping ring and the Staves.
- They don't work on players. Besides the Black Stave was destroyed, and WV uses the White Ring.
- White Stave up for grabs. Seriously it has to still be important an entire flash ended on it.
- HB knocked the white stave out of PM's hands, CD retrieved it and handed it to then 3xPrototyped Jack to start the reckoning. Wheather it is still in play or not remains to be seen.
- Now Jossed as of the EOA 5 animation, with Dave, Rose, And Jade reaching God-Tier.
The ultimate result of the Scratch will be a 16-player session with the Kids and the Trolls.
Both Future John
have suggested that the Scratch may lead to the Kids and Trolls meeting face-to-face, and Doc Scratch
says the Scratch resets the session.
The two sessions are already strongly intertwined, so maybe the Scratch will just finish the job and combine them.
- "You would eventually come to realize that the two teams were playing in the same session all along" has yet to be called back, you just know it's coming.
- Why would it? It had all the importance it needed when it was first brought up.
- Even with the post-Scratch characters, the only way for this to work out is for one of Aradia and ghost!Sollux to rejoin the others somehow, both if UU doesn't count (unless one of the dead trolls gets revived somehow).
- Jossed though; every indication of the mythology of the Alpha Session revolves around 8 players.
In the combined session mentioned above, the Kids and the Trolls will be competing with each other.
Vriska says here
that they were split up into two teams so that they'd compete against each other, and the reason they failed was because they worked together. A different species would make a better enemy than other Trolls, and if Karkat doesn't have his memories from the original timeline, he wouldn't want to work with the Kids anyway. It'd probably be good for the Kids too, since we've seen how they excel under pressure and the Trolls can't possibly be worse than Jack Noir.
- Altenatively, it'll be the Kids, Trolls, the Exile, Jack Noir and the inhabitants of Derse and Prospit vs. the Felt, D c Scratch and Lrd English. And it'll be awesome.
- There'd be no reason to, as in the new universe Trolls would have grown up on the relative paradise planet of Earth. With therapists.
- And that would be like eight more chapters which at this point is a genuinely horrifying prospect.
Skaia/SBURB will actively attempt to prevent "winners" from entering their created universe
This is likely because having god powered individuals entering newborn realities would cause only destruction, not creation. The psychology of Gods is delved into in the "Be Jack Noir" section, where he thinks "You wonder if it will always be like this. What sort of future does a new god have to look forward to? Will this malaise follow you for eternity? Will you be perpetually tempted to destroy everything you see, knowing that in just a few moments of recklessness, you will be left with nothing else to destroy forever? What will eternity feel like when a single moment of boredom feels like an eternity unto itself?"
Doesn't seem like having Gods directly involved would be very conducive to the maturation of a new Universe.
- None of the players are gods, so much as demigods. Jack isn't one of the kids anyways, he's completely insane and blows up planets for fun.
- You are assuming that the trolls "won". The final boss may not be the final task, the riddle probably is. You know the one they were "too good" to even bother finding out in the first place.
- Except Karkat for some reason but he's being all coy about it.
- They didn't, because of Karkat's impatience.
1 yard is how HIGH you have to be to put jelly on a hot god.
- Building on this, a "hot god" is actually a specific type of horrorterror of above-average attractiveness. Jelly is... I dunno, probably just jelly. But it's gotta do something.
- Jossed. Scroll down to the section titled "The 4th Wall".
The cast of Problem Sleuth
are either Prospitian exiles from the Trolls' session, or descendants thereof.
The reason the Midnight Crew are non-canon for them is because of Felt-related timeline shenanigans.
- They're human, not Prospitians. There's a difference in the way the crew is drawn in PS as to how they appear in HS, they seem more overtly like chess pieces. This is best seen with Spades Slick.
In the kids' game, the white can defeat the black because of how screwed up everything has gotten.
After all, black always beats white... but hell, at this point, the game board is practically smashed. And that's why Doc Scratch wants Rose to cause the Scratch - it will reset everything, so that black is ensured to win again.
- By triggering the Reckoning, Black has won already.
Jade's Penpal is Jack Noir
Okay, this one seems really out there, but I honestly think that The Jade's penpal is none other than Jack Noir himself.
- 1. Jack is shown have intense feelings of love and loyalty towards Jade, to the point he is unable to kill her
- 2. The penpals handwritting is incredibly Jagged, perhaps representing Jack's hasty, and violent demenor. (Although, the handwritting on the citation◊ looks slightly different)
- Doesn't match his handwriting we've seen in the comic. That's not slightly different, that's entirely different. J's handwriting mostly matches Vriska's.
- 3. The penpal has a desire to get into a (friendly) fist fight with John. If you recall, Jack seems to loathe the "graveyard stuffer" with a passion. The mere scent of John, causes Jack Noir succumb to unfathomable bloodtlust. (Or at least it does, before he starts thinking about dog bones and Jade)
- 4. The penpal indicates that he loves to wrestle, though no one really wants to with him. Makes sense because realy, who'd want to werstle someone with the power to warp to wherever they wanted?
- 5. Why would the penpal refer to Jade as "Grandma"? Jack Noir (deep down) is very loyal to Jade. And loyal people respect their elders!
- 6. The penpal signs his name as "J" which could possibly be short for Jack.
- 1. Why would Jack succumb to love, and why would he be in the future?
- Okay, remember that fight with Rose? The colosion of the two powers caused Jack to jet ahead into the future by accident, and caused him to lose his memories of being evil.
- 2. Why did the bunny he built turn on his past self?
- It was always meant to protect John, even if he was being harassed by Jack's Past self
- 3. Why was he so adamant on making the bunny?
- Too ensure that John and or his friends had at least a chance at taking on lord english
- The kids don't even know English exists, and there is no conceivable situation in which Jack would consider himself Jade's grandson.
- Jossed, I think. Hasn't it been confirmed that Jake English is Jade's penpal?
- Though the name is very close...
The very last page of Homestuck will be scratched out and unreadable by the damages on disc 2.
- Weeeell, sorta? Homestuck is broken right now, that's why we brought the disc to someone to get it fixed…
- Yeah, straight up Jossed now, probably because it was a real pain for Andrew to draw the messed up graphics.
The space-time continuum is a recursively bisecting moebius strip.
A split timeline is doomed unless it's perpetuated by a stable time loophole; at some point it has to become it's own cause. When a stable split goes forward in time, it continues to wrap around to the beginning of that split, until time is once again a contiguous one-sided object with one edge. Right now it appears that Earth and Alternia are contiguous universes, but by the end of the story, the entire duration of time will have doubled, potentially to accommodate more universes along it's length.
- This sounds confirmed in an Alterniabound dialog; the part about Alternia and Earth being concurrent universes on a moebius strip and the part about a stable time split requiring it's own paradoxical cause. The part about the split continuing all the way around to make a longer continuity is just a property of moebius strips.
- A corollary of this is that successfully changing the future in this way leaves the perspective that it was always that way in the first place.
- The problem with this is that the Earth session is barren, so it can't create Alternia to continue the loop.
- We've already seen the Trolls scratch their session to get a new one that creates Earth, this may happen after Earth's session's scratch. Past (ancestor) Trolls > Future (current) Trolls > Past (current) Humans > Future (post-scratch) Humans > Past Trolls. This would make Cascade the point where the Mobius strip finally reaches itself to start over, as the Humans scratch their session but persist into the new one.
- UU indirectly jossed this. The Trolls will survive after the end of the Alpha Session and continue to play sburb many more times over.
Sgrub, like Sburb, is still in beta, and because no one has ever achieved win conditions before, the bug went undetected until the trolls' playtesting. That it allowed a scourge from a more broken session in was just their bad luck.
Another possible bug; Aradia created many, many paradoxical time-copies of herself to win the battle with. Any one of them would be a doomed timeline, but that many of them in one place necessarily attracts a whole lot of doom
. Supporting this is the fact that every troll survived Jack's initial assault, which wiped out all the Aradia copies.
- The fact that it's a beta is unimportant, Sburb only functions as a minimal interface and a portal to the Incipisphere, where the real game is.
- Jossed/confirmed(It's Homestuck this was bound to happen). Are the trolls in beta? No. Were they in beta? unknown but there was a hard reset. Is the scratch caused by a game breaking bug? Yes by Jack interupting their session, yes by Jack being created in the first place by their own actions which they only did because Jack already existed, yes by their session existing at all because of Lord English's meddling and probably also yes because of the kids joining their two sessions after the reset even though that hasn't happened yet. May need new terminology at this point. Jossfirmed? Hussied?
- Jossed in the original WMG though; the bug was not because Sgrub was flawed.
D c Scratch's goal
He's telling Rose how to initiate the Scratch because it will end the universe, allowing L[ ]rd English to enter it. He is already here!
- D c Scratch doesn't lie, as long as we assume we don't have a Lying Creator. He wouldn't lie about the destruction of the universe because he's assured of it's inevitability regardless of what the kids do. Therefore, the Scratch does what he says it does: reset the universe. He admitted that the kids aren't guaranteed to exist in the reboot, so there's no reason not to tell them if it would be completely destroyed. It's not clear why he advises it, though; it surely can't be a condition for L[ ]rd English's appearance. Perhaps he's indirectly pointing them to an escape routine, as he's said there is a possible way they can survive the reboot, but for whatever reason he won't tell them what that is.
- Well, from what I can gather, the whole point of sburb is to have the chosen players beat the black kingdom from destroying Skaia and then have there universe get destroyed by Lrd English (after the players create another, forming a vicious, neverending cycle of destruction). In the kids session, they did something that wasn't supposed to happen (prototyping Bec) which made their session unwinable. So the reason why Doc Scratch wants them to reset, is so that the session can start all over, and flow the way it was supposed to.
- The Scratch doesn't end the universe, just reset it. Scratch however is manipulating Rose, in ways we have yet to see.
- His goal was actually for her to create the Green Sun.
The kid's section, when won, will create our universe
Based on the end of Problem Sleuth
, where after beating the game, Sleuth and his two partners come to live in the real world, it seems rather probable Hussie may come up with that.
- Kid's session is a) our universe anyways and b) barren.
- Kid's section cannot be our universe. We don't have captchalogues, for starters. It may be an universe similar to ours, but different at the same time. As for it being barren, well, that is due Bec Noir right? All we need is some time traveling shenanigans and whamo.
- It is our universe in the sense of close enough (Obama, Con Air, Movies, video games, pop culture etc etc etc). No there aren't captchalogues but we don't have Sburb either. Barren is actual due to a lot of reasons, even before Jack ascends Rose notices it is barren and the core of Skaia has the Tumor, which is not in a normal session.
In addition to resetting the kids' session to some point before they entered the Medium, the Scratch will also reset the trolls' session to before the arrival of Bec Noir.
Due to the StableTimeLoops
relating to the interaction between the kids and the trolls after the arrival of Bec Noir in the trolls' session, undoing events in one timeline will undo their consequences in the other. Bec Noir was able to enter the trolls' session by creating the Rift before the Scratch was activated, and he will escape the reset by fleeing into the Furthest Ring.
- Jossed by itsself for that matter...as their scratch is what sent Bec Noir to the trolls, ergo it can't also undo his being sent to them...unless they ALSO performed a scratch...
The number of players in a session continues to diminish until the end of the multiverse.
Let's run with that implication that there were 48 players in the session that created the trolls' universe (based on their number of astrological signs). So we have:
First a division by 4, then by 3. Now let's pretend that this is enough to establish a pattern. The factor would continue to diminish by one with each subsequent session. This implies, first of all, that there were 240 players in the session before the one that created the trolls' universe (48 x 5 = 240), and 1,440 in the one before that (240 x 6 = 1440)! But second, if we carry this "logic" forward
further, a universe created by a successful (i.e. post-scratch reset) version of the kids' session would have only two players (4 / 2 = 2) - most likely a Hero of Space and a Hero of Time, as speculated above. And after that, another two player session (2 / 1 = 2), with a similar lineup. But... then what? The factor can't go down any further, right? Oh, but it can. The equation to determine the next session would destroy all existence: two, divided by zero.
- The next session will have an infinite number of players. As long as n is not 0, n/0=∞.
- Wait, no, the next session will have two players: Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff. They will play a game of SBAHJ, where they will find out that Sweet Bro is the Bro of Time and Hella Jeff is the Jeff of Space. Sweet Bro's guardian is his mom, Jeff's is Geromy, and the imps will (after an ill-advised prototyping with... I dunno, a stuffed squirrel or some such) take on the form of squirrels that try to steal their game discs. Jeff will dream on Prospit, where Skaia's clouds will show him visions where he is the star (it's him) and he has to challenge the Big Man (the Black King). Meanwhile, Sweet Bro, the Derse dreamer, will fall under the control of the horrorterrors (hot gods) and do their bidding (put... jelly on them. Whatever). Jeff will use the sockkind abstratus, with which he will create....... DISTACTIONS, while Bro will attempt to use both rulerkind and spoonkind but utterly fail to get the hang of either... man, I could go on for hours.
- Or as stated above, the next session will be Mobius and Hadron's, and the corresponding numbers will be 2:14, for reasons both outlined here and listed on (as of this writing) the first WMG on the page.
- Or we could simply say, no probably not. Andrew for instance has left open that other human sessions escaped up to whatever number you feel like, and the rebooted session the Kids will be in will have 8 players via technicality. Extrapolation from 3 points, including one that has only been referenced once is a bit silly don't you think.
On the game's Captchacard, the acts so far have been represented by red dots if kid-centered, blue if troll-centered; both are done with, the next acts green and white. It's been pretty clear since the end of Act 4 that the story is taking us to the Outer Rings. Feferi showed us that the Horrorterrors and the Squiddles are one and the same. Now we truly meet the Noble Circle in the Furthest Ring, represented by green, after which white represents the surviving Gods: John, Aradia, one from the session that created Alternia, and fedoraFreak.
- Or more plausibly, Act 6 is green because it will involve Lord English much more and begins with the explosion of the Green Sun. Act 7 is white most likely to show that it is beyond all of the game stuff, as it is going to be entirely epilogue.
- Note that the dots for the acts that have been completed so far match the curtains that closed them.
The kids will become the guardians of the new kids following the scratch.
- First, the kids will find some way to make it to this reset universe post scratch. They will then take the corresponding roles from their own Guardians and become the new kids' Guardians: Jade will become Grandma (Seeing as Jade's Penpal has been said to be her grand-child, this fits); John will become either Dad or Grandpa depending if he takes the role of his own Dad, who was his adoptive father, or Nanna, who was his genetic mother; Rose will become Mom; Dave will become Bro. They will all try to be better guardians than their own, and will try to find the interest of their "kids". Unfortunately they will end up making the same mistakes, not able to distinguish subconscious ideas, and the roles will come full circle.
- Jossed, the Kids are entering the rebooted Incipisphere, not the universe itself. Likewise, what about the surviving trolls?
- On the other hand, if they DON'T escape the Scratch's temporal effects (and I'm not convinced all the kids will escape the Scratch, especially since one of them has to die just to set off the Green Sun)...
Lord English is Betty Crocker.
Doc Scratch says It seems she is acting out again
and the last line She knew the baroness was not human! :B
- This puts John's phobia in a sinister new light.
- Remember how all the kids made specialized Gushers? Yeah that is in no way going to bite them in the ass.
- Then who is Skipper Plumbthroat?
- If LE is Betty Crocker then her final form will be a birthday cake the size of the universe and John will use the windy thing to blow out the candles and end his birthday.
- Possibly jossed.
The Final Battle
will involve all characters introduced thus far, and more importantly, will follow problem sleuth's style of taking viewer input.
- Probably not considering a fair number of characters are dead and are not coming back.
Skaianet and the Beta
In the beginning of the story, it was stated that the Sburb that the core four had was still in beta, as well as Sgrub in Alternia later on. Perhaps the S-series is as a whole in beta, using characters created as a product of their unfinished game to play it on their own while Skaianet takes the data from those "tests" and uses them to correct it. Quite possibly, when they have enough information from the other games, the testers, like any other, will play the game for themselves. If they the survive their own game without any problems, it will be ready for distribution in the new universe.
What if their playing interferes with the Core Four's session? That hasn't been figured out yet.
- Sburb/Sgrub is not very important. It functions as a minimal interface, default inventory system (deployables), and the way to enter a game. However the facts of a session itself are not shaped by the Swhateverb; the most important thing for the stable time loops is that the players enter. Everything else is gravy.
The Bec Noir that screwed up the trolls' session didn't actually come from the kids' session.
One of the side effects of a glitched session is that, even if you cause the Scratch, the post-scratch players are doomed never to enter the universe they create, because something from the pre-Scratch session will make it through the Scratch and prevent them from entering. "Bec Noir" is actually an artifact of the trolls' ancestors' session, and may in fact be Lord English; why he's prototyped the exact same way as the kids' Noir is unknown.
- It could be from another planet's session, too, though.
- Jossed by [S] Cascade
The Scratch will produce a universe where humans are just as bloodthirsty as the trolls
Part of the reason why the trolls' ancestors couldn't finish the game was because they weren't made of hardy enough stuff, and part of the reason they agreed to cause the Scratch was to produce a reality where they would be. It's possible the scratch the kids cause will have the same effect, guided, as with the trolls, by the new universe's equivalent of Doc Scratch.
- Except we saw John spawn his team and their respective ancestors so Lord English has not actually glitched up the kid's session at all, their session is barren but not doomed.
- Troll session 2 was made specifically to do a better job than session 1. But the trolls have pretty much said that the kids are doing a better job playing the game than they did. Their time player is better (if body count and doomed timelines is the yardstick being used), the frog job isn't being rushed and they are actually paying attention to the lore and the riddles.
- Assuming J is in fact from the rebooted human session (as is fairly likely) we already know this is Jossed. He mentions actors that we know and doesn't seem especially blood thirsty. Remember, the kids have done in a day what it took the Trolls nearly a month to do (make the Genesis Frog, reach the top of their echeladder, etc) so it seems that Humans are already way better at the game than Trolls.
The Sufferer was actually a High blood
- His blood could be higher than royalty or lower than rust but since he didn't seem to have any mutant poweres he was more likely a highblood.
- The higher caste on the hemospectrum you go the lower the birth rate. At the time the Sufferer was the only candyblood to have ever existed.
- The Hemospectrum is arrayed like the normal visible spectrum; that is the higher the wavelength the higher the energy (power) and therefore the higher the status. Red would be either the lowest presented or (and this would actually make sense, considering the Rustblood's role) just above Aradia.
- Feferi's color appears closest to Pink/Magenta which is not technically present in the the visible spectrum (in terms of wavelengths). Here is an article explaining the weirdness. So either Hussie doesn't know this and I'm barking up the wrong tree or the colors are not based on the visible spectrum entirely, but simply ordered that way for convenience.
- Alternatively, Ultraviolet light runs through colors just like visible light and Red would be the lowest on the UV tier, but the UV tier would still be above Visible Spectrum tier.
- Jossed, Hussie has said the blood color of Karkat and the Sufferer is not on the acknowledged hemospectrum at all.
The role played by Doc Scratch in the post-Scratch troll universe will be played in the post-Scratch kids' universe by... the surviving kids and trolls.
If we assume the kids and ancestors always switch places when a scratch occurs, for any kids to survive it doesn't seem to be something accounted for. It could be that the kids could still play the roles of ancestors, with their memory intact, and with those roles greatly broadened, to the role of shaping their very universe to be able to complete the game and, preferably, break the chain of misfortune descending from the trolls to the kids.
here's hoping this doesn't get lost...
- Found it but unfortunately jossed.
One more Dave
Vriska tricked John into cosplaying a her whose to say that Terezi didn't do the same to Dave? Actually it has been pretty much confirmed that she at least tried to make him dress up like her, note the shades,
but we have yet to see the full suit. Alpha!Dave will probably die at the green sun, only for Dave to return in Terezi cosplay
Lord English is...
- Gamebro... because that may be the only character that hasn't been considered yet.
- That statue that was made accidentally was actual size.
- Behind his shades are those pool balls eyes.
- He really is that shade of green that's not just some image editing.
When Hussie begins releasing other eight God Tier Hoodies, he will make a self-aware statement along these lines:
"As I'm sure even the least astute of you has deduced I would do, I have released the first of the remaining God Tier hoodies, despite the fact that at least one of them will never be depicted in the comic under any circumstances whatsoever. Technically, I am now a fashion designer, just as I am also technically a seller of astrological merchandise."
When the scratch occurs, whomever was the time player is forced to become a minion of Lord English's.
- Since Aradia was forced against her will to become the handimaid, and the scratch is technically a time based event, the time player could get left behind, for d0c scratch to recruit for English.
The MSPA Reader is Lord English.
First off, I'm saying the character
is, not us as a whole.
Think about it: No matter where the main characters go, no matter what they do, the Reader is still watching them. He is already there, waiting for them to make their next move, anticipating how it will all go down. There was even a time when he (or us, depending on your perception of things) could decide how their universe worked, i.e. submitting commands for them to follow. And since a meta guy like hussie can break through walls easily, whose to say the reader doesn't have a wall they could break through on their own? It'd be a pretty surefire way to take a universe in Homestuck and salvage it for their own, because to him, this is all just a silly comic that he reads in his little land of Stumps and Dismay.
Karkat Pantas (i.e., Pantskat) was intentional.
I do believe this to be the case, and not a joke theory. However, I'm not sure where best to put this if not this page, as there doesn't seem to be a single "meta guesses" page, unless this is it.
In the Spritelog/Chatlog between Nannasprite and fedorafreak
, fedorafreak mentions alchemizing a "useless, excessively tall pant". Later, during Doc Scratch's monologuing sermon about the Ancestors, the Sufferer's leggings are mentioned as a holy artifact
(they are both grey, like Pantskat's trouser-esque attire, and seemingly long). The Pants-kat imagery
after the Doc Scratch interlude. Coincidence? Maybe
- Not a coincidence if those references only existed after Pantskat became a fandom meme!!
Spades will reform the Midnight Crew
Well, that is if he survived the death of the universe. As you can remember, Hearts Boxcars was shunted into an entirely different calender, and Diamonds Droog was transported a week into the future and could have avoided the disaster that befallen everyone else. Spades would find someway to get into the horse calender Hearts Boxcars is stuck in, and he could simply wait to meet up with Diamonds Droog. Clubs Deuce in the meantime could have been rescued by Itchy. They're both Minion with an F in Evil
, so they could possibly be friends or something.
- Jossed: The universe is shown to be completely destroyed save for Doc's apartment floating in a void.
Spades Slick is Jack prototyped with the blue doll as per John's original intentions
Anyone else notice that Spade's Slick is missing the same arm as the doll that John originally intended to prototype Jack with? Bonus fridge logic: this seems to suggest that everything we've seen since this point in time is non-alpha timeline
- Wow. That doesn't make sense in any department.
- He is from the Troll's session. John is obviously not a troll, so his prototypings wouldn't affect SS in any way.
- Spades doesn't have a ring and is not an underling. Prototyping can't happen.
- We freaking saw Snowman stab his eye out and tear his arm off.
Spades Slick's robo-arm and eye patch originally belonged to Vriska.
It's likely that he found her corpse (the one with the robo-arm that was left behind when she fled Alternia) and tore off the arm to use as his own. But if you're wondering how he outfitted it if it's the wrong arm....HE JUST FLIPPED HIS SPRITE TURNWAYS.
- Her corpse is in the Medium, and likewise Equius's hive and her hive are also in the Medium.
All the Midnight Crew as exiles control more than one troll.
Like how Snowman has both Terezi and Vriska to command. Two of them might have three instead, though. Who the other trolls are:
- Diamonds Droog has Aradia (Canon) and Kanaya (Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend)
- Spades Slick has Karkat (Canon) and Eridan (no explanation for this one, he's just a leftover)
- Clubs Deuce has Sollux (Canon) and Gamzee (they are both quite silly)
- Hearts Boxcars has Tavros (Canon), Equius (strength) and Nepeta (both apparently share an interest in romance)
- Snowman has Vriska and Terezi (Canon), as well as Feferi (both royalty)
- Doesn't really seem to work out; like Snowman showed and WV briefly attempted during his introduction, what is more likely is that the Midnight Crew advised a bunch of different trolls at different points in time.
The Wayward Vagabond is from the future of Skaia, where John has become king
It was stated when he was first introduced that this takes place "years in the future, but not many". His hatred of kings may stem from John tipping the balance in Skaia to the side of Light and setting himself up as king. If this is the case, WV may simply not have made the connection between John and the king yet. If this is true, expect a portal-like twist later on when WV realizes what is going on and tries to kill John by telling him to do stupid things.
- Also, if the speculation that WV is actually a shale imp is true, it would give him another reason to hate John for beating them to Skaia in the game.
The Exiles are going to travel to the past, where they will ally with the kids and trolls.
There will be three more exiles that will play a major role in the story
Why? Becuase 4-1-3
; WV, PM, AR, and WQ, then WK, then the next three exiles. Furthermore, this dovetails with apparent Word of God
about Snowman being the eighth exile; she and two others (possibly members of the Midnight Crew) will come from the Trolls' session.
- Jossed, the eight exile bit was just a reference to the order Snowman was introduced in, after three of the Midnight Crew and 4 of Earth's Exiles. All said there are currently 10 exiles, not 8, and there seems to be a pattern in that 4 are relatively related and the fifth is more of an anomaly.
The Writ Keeper has some sort of knowledge of the Trolls
As said here
, "Complacency of the Learned" is a representation of Rose's subconscious mind telling the origins of her universe - ie the Trolls. If the Writ Keeper can pick up on that (likely given him being the former White King)...well, now we know why the Writ needs a Keeper!
- It would do him little to no good, given that he won't be able to interact with them except indirectly, and the Kids know plenty about the trolls.
Can only Carapaces become "exiles" or is it any living game construct that is sent out of session technically becomes an exile? If the latter is the case then we have WV, PM, AR, WQ, WK and last to be considered is Serenity the firefly.
- This is incredibly silly.
- There are a few dozen to a hundred "exiles" in any given session; the Trolls had enough to populate a city and WQ brought a ship with her. The term "Exile" is completely a fan creation and has no bearing on canon. Nevertheless, it seems that only 5 in any given session advise the players via terminals, and by that logic, Serenity doesn't qualify because she can't type.
- WQ was introduced with the command "Fourth Exile: Suddenly appear." So "exile" isn't entirely a fan term.
- Still; only 5 exiles of relevance in a given session (the other Earth Exiles never appeared after a brief cameo and the other Alternian exiles are never seen period.)
PM will give WV the white ring.
- The ring will bring him back to life. He will then defeat Jack Noir, and set up the first Democratic Republic of Skaia in the reset session.
- Rings don't have that ability.
PM will go to meet up with the remaining trolls and the two kids with them.
- Why is she watching them with her Bec powers? Maybe because she thinks they can help her somehow...
- OK, I stand corrected. WV is going to the trolls and kids himself, according to the most recent update. Though highly likely for the same reasons I supported this WMG with in the first place.
The Exiles of the Post-Scratch Earth session will be Prospit versions of the Problem Sleuth Heroes
Reading through the wiki I have noticed there are many things that connect the Pre and Post Scratch to other, as well as connections to the Post Scratch Troll session, mostly in parallels and similarities. This could extended to the thematic elements of their respective Exiles as well. The Troll session had the Midnight Crew as their Exiles which correlates to Alternian culture: Heavy violence and bloodshed where hatred and love are considered one and the same, thus Alternia ended up having violent gangsters from Derse as its Exiles. Going by this logic, it would make sense that the Exiles of the Alpha session would instead be made up of a group of four heroic gumshoes all hailing from Prospit, possibly all under the employ of the White Royalty.
Problem Sleuth himself would be the foil to Jack Noir, Ace Dick to Clubs Deuce, and Pickle Inspector to Diamond Droog. Only problem would be finding someone who shares a large enough similarity to Hearts Boxcars......
- Andrew has Jossed this one, expressing strong distaste for theories about the PS crew showing up.
The Guardians will aid the kids during the final battle.
This would be an awesome idea.
- not ALL the guardians....
- You never know, there might be more WEIRD TIME SHIT.
- Probably not. The entire point of the Guardians from the beginning is like the lusi; to ultimately die so the players grow. Sburb has a grim mentality about extra people sneaking in; the only person to leave and enter the Medium without being a player is Hass, and that still hasn't been fully explained.
- Because it was a joke.
- Still possible, if you count the Post-Scratch guardians (who are now the players)
Bec killed the dinosaurs
As above, but more within the character's capacity.
- He predates the Cretaceous.
Bec is the Denizen of Earth
Huge sleeping underground monster. Woken by meteor impact. Intimately involved with the Earth's passages through the Skaian 'games'.
- In fact, let's crank this up: Denizens are the final stage of Kernelsprite metamorphosis. Like pokemon, they evolve. Bec was first prototyped with a puppy and a klein bottle.
Bec is not Jade's guardian.
Scratch and Bec display similar abilities, namely the green lightningness, and Scratch refers to himself as the guardian of Alternia. So what is Bec? He's the guardian of earth
. Jade's guardian is her grandfather, which will cause serious problems later on when they are needed (since he's only alive in dream-form.)
- This is partial canon, he's the First Guardian of Earth. However Guardians themselves are not that important. And he is her Guardian, at least to Sburb and for all intents and purposes.
Grandpa Harley's dream self is alive, but his real-world counterpart is dead.
The Act 4 intermission pages of Homestuck show the apparently alive Grandpa Harley coming to gather the remains of Dream Jade. This may confirm that this is actually his dream self, and offers a very interesting parallel in the story. Namely, in the real world, Jade is alive and interacts with her stuffed Grandpa, while in the dream world, Grandpa is alive and interacts with his stuffed grand-daughter.
- Seems probable. The troll arc in act 5 established that a dreamself can replace the original if it dies, so it's entirely possible that the Grampa we're seeing in the medium is his dreamself.
- As Andrew has stated that most people don't even have a dreamself, this would mean that Jade's grandpa is destined to venture into the Medium. It also may have something to do with the implication that he is in some way related to the development of Sburb.
- Alternatively it is a past version of Grandpa Harley
- The above is jossed, only players have dream selves, and Grandpa is not a player. He is a past version of himself.
The four main characters will come to truly understand their guardians and why they behave like they do.
And then we will see their faces, in sequences that will make us cry. (Mostly Jossed: Bro died shortly after Jack Noir gaining Bec's powers, but it did make people cry.)
- Inversely, Jade thinks that Becquerel is a loving, faithful friend, when in reality he is simply doing his job of protecting one of the four Chosen Ones. In his face-revelation sequence, we'll see it from Jade's point of view, with an adorable doggie face fading away to blankness. (Jossed for now. Jade came to no such revelation before prototyping her dream-self and thus pushing out Bec's personality and replacing it with Dream Jade's. In fact the last thing said before this was along the lines of 'Bec's been the best dog a girl could ever have. You're sure going to miss him!'
- Jossed again: Jack Noir, influenced by Bec's personality, keeps on accidentally thinking adoring thoughts about the best most wonderful human girl ever. Bec loved Jade.
- All in all Jossed, as they all die. Besides, judging from the kid's reactions, they all knew anyways.
Bro, and possibly the other guardians, are still alive.
Bro, at least, had his own copy of Sburb. Therefore it's possible he also entered the medium as a palayer, and thus has both a dream self and a real self. So... even if his real self is dead, his dream self could still be alive
- But that was the copy that Dave used, remember?
- Is there any reason that Bro couldn't have also used it? Do you need to have the CD in the drive to play, or does it just install?
- The CD only works once, like an account verification, presumably as some sort of failsafe or copy protection given that it is a Beta to an anticipated game. Dave needed to make a fifth disc to become Jade's server player. Besides, the two copies given to the Striders were used.
The kids are the guardians, apart from Jade, who is Betty Crocker, and John, who is DAD.
MOM wears a pink scarf that matches Rose's sash. John displays the same clown obsession as DAD, and shows an affection for suits. Dave/BRO used time shenanigans to move around like a ninja and ensure that baby!Dave had all the strife knowledge necessary to survive in Sburb. I have no idea how Jade ended up as Betty Crocker.
- Jossed: John made 8 babies remember?
John's dad uses Jokerkind for his Strife Specibus and Gamzee acquired it from him in some sort of temporal event.
That's about it.
- Probably not; Dad doesn't seem to have a Specibus, other than Cake Kind and maybe Fist Kind.
The guardians are also playing a game.
Much like the trolls' session, there are two 'parallel' games being run at the same time— the kids', and the guardians' (as opposed to two sets of regular players.) In fact, the entire reason for the trolls' double-reacharound was the lack of guardians to create the second part of the game since they had to prototype their lusii.
- The narration refers to the troll's mobius reacharound as being unique. Moreover Mom doesn't even seem to own a computer, Bec definitely doesn't, and Dad and Bro's computers have been seen. No Sburb.
Dad is fedoraFreak
The only guardian not to come from ectobiology - the only other human known to have survived (and probably reached God Tier), another fedora-clad businessman. Somehow, after reaching God Tier, he came back to become both Dads. (Of course, this would mean he didn't actually die on Skaia...)
- Alternatively, perhaps the tower he died on was on top of his quest bed, or he had multiple dream selves, like Sullox..., died again, this time on the quest bed, either way, then reaching god tier, then going back in time, becoming fedora freak...
- Not Jossed, per se, but NOPED. Dad is pipeFan. Nannasprite overtly says this in her conversation with fedoraFreak.
- Of course, it's still possible that fedoraFreak is the Alpha Dad, who was somehow sending messages to the Beta Universe.
Dad is a clone (ectobiological or otherwise) of Colonel Sassacre
They're the same height, the same build; hoot, even their noses are identical. It would explain why there's such a strong resemblance despite the fact that John/Poppop and Nanna/Jane aren't the colonel's blood relatives at all, and would also explain why he looks exactly
the same in both timelines, despite the fact that he clearly has different parents. Of note, while Nanna mentions that she started a family
, she doesn't actually say she gave birth...
I was reading back and found a couple odd things about First Guardians.
1: Karkat (or someone) mentions that every planet has a First Guardian, but it seems that First Guardians are created within a session. So what exactly does this mean? Was whoever said this wrong or is it possible that each and every planet has a chance at the game?
2: The use of the word Guardian in their name. Guardian is also used to refer to a lusus or a parent within the story. So I take it that the First Guardians are sort of a lusus to the planet as a whole basically. Since Guardians tend to die in or before the session I wonder if the First Guardian dying is supposed to happen as well? Bec seems to die in a sense, but Doc Scratch seemed fine. Though the trolls never got to complete their game and Doc Scratch wants to die, so maybe.
3: Doc Scratch is the First Guardian of Alternia, but according he says that prior to the Alternian Scratch he wasn't a part of that world. Now if whoever said that every planet has a First Guardian is right, this means there was a different First Guardian on the Pre-Scratch Alternia.
- Doc Scratch didn't look particularly fine after Hussie got through with him...
- Which is why he pissed off Hussie, only the author can kill an omnipotent being that easily... which allowed Lord English to take over his body, which is the reason he wanted to die... So I suppose he pissed him off on purpose?
- Jossed on a couple levels here:
- Every planet with sentient life that is able to play Sburb has a First Guardian. It seems some necessary level of technology needs to be reached, at least one of instant electronic communication and relative social stability, as Victorian England didn't play Sburb nor the tumultuous warlike Alternian culture before the relatively static modern trolls.
- There was no First Guardian for Pre-Scratch Alternia, which is partially why they had to Scratch.
- First Guardians however are pretty close to being a Guardian for the universe.
Jack Noir is not Evil
He somehow, perhaps with the fourth prototyping, became aware that he was inhabiting a null session. Everything he has done is what he has to do
to make the kids' session non-null
- Sure doesn't clear him of his blowing up of Prospit and the Battlefield when he had only three prototypes.
- Somewhat Jossed, somewhat true. Although he's not trying to fix the session, he's actually the anthropomorphic form of the 'Cancer' of the kids session, so he can't completely be blamed for his actions.
- That's just Karkat's theory, not necessarily the unvarnished truth.
- Regardlesss of his status one way or the other, he still relishes murdering people.
The Queens and Kings are special.
Only they can use the rings or scepters safely. If anyone else attempts, they suffer With Great Power Comes Great Insanity
. Like, say Jackspers Noirlecrow. Why, hello there, Jack!◊
- Jossed apparently. Jack isn't insane. Moreover WV apparently will use the White Ring with no real consequences to his sanity.
Jack Noir also inherited feelings for Rose from Jaspers.
He hasn't bothered Rose at all or even set foot on the Land of Light and Rain from what we've seen so far. He had no trouble killing John and (Doomed) Dave because the Harlequin doll and Seppukrow had no real feelings for them.
- Apparently Jossed, at least as far as symbols go, here.
- The fact that Jack hasn't simply done his typical BAMKATANACHESTSTABDIE or BAMKATANATHROATSLASHDIE maneuver on Rose, which is well within his capabilities, suggests that for whatever reason; he is hesistant to simply kill Rose and is merely acting in self defense when met with her GRIMDARK HORRORTERROR NUKE.
- He has shown no form of hesitation to murder Rose. What seems to be the case is that because Jaspers was dead for so long, his personality barely transfered. You could argue that Jack loves pranks because he's part jester and that would still be wrong because there's nothing in canon to support it.
- Whoops Jack's sword there just impaled Rose, guess this one's Jossed!
- Most likely, Bec's power made his personality more powerful, and/or Jaspers, as an independent-minded cat, wasn't really all that close to Rose.
- That doesn't really make sense though; Jaspersprite has consistently shown himself to care a lot for Rose, although he doesn't act that much on it.
Jack's Trophy Binge is the manifestation of what he inherited, personality wise, from Davesprite.
Also: "You cannot stay mad at Cal. He is your true friend." (something like that.) And the way he decides the binge was stupid what the hell was he thinking is very similar to the "why do bones have to be so tasty!?" bit.
This leads to my theory that while he has inherited personality traits from all the prototypings, they are completely random.
- Davesprite was the second prototyping, the ring only grants the properties of the first. So neither Davesprite nor Jadesprite will influence him, that's purely his own personality at work.
- Technically the ring only grants the properties of pre-Medium prototypings (hence why both of Rose's prototypings affect the Medium), but otherwise this is correct.
- On the other hand, the trophy binge could be a legacy of Seppucrow - remember, the brainless feathery asshole ended up dead because it was trying to steal Dave's game discs.
- So why isn't there any influence from Dead!Jaspers+Eldritch Princess after Jack's fourth prototyping? Because he is actually hiding his tentacles in his torso (you know, with his katana), and then he and Gamzee will have an epic battle, until he uses said tentacles to absorb Gamzee, going one-winged angel again. And you know the part where Doc Scratch said he needed to die in order to bring his master into his universe? Yeah, he meant doing a Fusion Dance with Bec Noir Zee in order to BECOME Lord English! Think about it-both LE and Jack/Bec Noir have been referred to as as the Demon, Gamzee and LE are both very selective and prefers killing trolls/universes, one by one, and of course Doc Scratch and LE both have green pool themes, being members of the Felt
- Word of God is that Jack can change aspects of his prototyping and return his tentacles or not; he just prefers not to because they were a pain (also a nuisance for the artists to draw). Also Jack is far too short, can't reach Alternia via any known means, Gamzee is taken down by Karkat, and Doc and Jack's powers are over space, not time like Lord English's. Completely Jossed.
- Jack is now a teleporter, Gamzee must still be alive for The Critical Moment, Lord English's powers are actually unknown, nobody ever did say he had time powers
- Taken down =/= killed, and English collected and empowered the Felt who all have Time based powers and can time travel; it stands to reason that his powers are over at least Time.
- Guys... I think my WMG got just got jossed-spectacularly
Jack will never be truly defeated
The Trolls and Kids will escape each of their sessions to the new one created by the Scratch, and (future) Jack will be left behind in the Troll's session. Jack is literally unbeatable, and the only hope is to banish him elsewhere (e.g. the troll's session) ... after the Trolls and Kids are gone, Jack will be stuck forever in a rotting incipisphere, with nothing to kill or fight. Perhaps for someone as bloodthirsty as him, it is a Fate Worse Than Death
- Doubtful, as PM now appears to be as powerful as him, and Jade may be even more so.
Who's blood is on Jack's hands when he enters the Troll Session?
- Perhaps his own? At the beginning of Grim Rose VS Jack, I assumed that the scratch was near, and that it was her blood. That's jossed, and the only one he is hanging around with now is Jade, who he can't harm, and frogs, which he seemingly prefers to step on. (Albeit, his teleport powers mean he could appear to anyone and get bloodstained in no time, but the fact that he is still following Jade is important, I think.) Final point, most bloodstains on jack have been on his sword or chest, where it goes through. What possible situation would mean he needs to kill someone without a sword? Perhaps an injury to him on his hand is the cause.
[[folder: Post-Scratch Session]]
The Trolls will be able to repopulate despite the death of the Matriorb because...
- The post-Scratch version of Jade/Jake's island has been shown to have Lusi Naturae, (I mean, FRIGHTENING FAUNA), which could theoretically include a Mother Grub.
- Any Mother Grub that isn't tended by trolls tends to die when alone, such as Kanaya's demonstrated, thus Jossed.
The Reason Roxy uses troll lingo is...
She reads Homestuck through one of her many fenestrated walls.
- She might have met them while sleepwalking through the dream-bubbles.
UU is not a cissexual.
Disregarding the Midnight Crew, Homestuck has thus far had an absolute gender equality among its player characters, but if UU is either male or female, the balance would be tipped. Now, while the screen name uranianUmbra most likely refers to the Green Sun's atomic rays, uranian is also an archaic term for a transsexual. Knowing this, it seems likely that she is somehow either both genders at once or neither.
- That logic actually doesn't apply; for a very long time, J was known to be a mysterious person but there was no indication his gender was fluid. Moreover, Uranian was a originally specific term for a MTF Transsexual, not just any sort of non-binary or non cissexual, and UU seemingly is happy to be identified as a female. In addition, no session can compose of a single player, so it's entirely possible Uranian is simply a reference that makes sense in the context of her own session (i.e. perhaps a celestial body theme, or what have you).
- Or you can simply chalk it up to UU lying outright and being a First Guardian, which don't really even have gender.
- Possibly Jossed. If UU isn't lying, her Sburb class is exclusive to female players. Then again, no one ever said that classes were limited to physiologically female players. It might count psychological gender for all we know.
- She has consistently been referred to as female constantly. She seems to be a Wholesome Crossdresser at worst. Calling this one as Jossed.
- All that means is that she identifies as female. Whether she is cissexual or trans* is still up in the air, so how is this Jossed?
- Because usually when a girl says she's a girl, she's a biological girl. There has never been any suggestion remotely of her being anything but a normal cissexual female, and we don't even know if there can be transsexual trolls too, because their gender identity is completely different from humans. The core WMG too is Jossed about the whole gender balance thing too, because there's uu. Speaking in an aside as a writer here too, in all likelihood, while Andrew is an LGBT sympathizer, he doesn't want to touch the pretty emotionally charged subject of transsexuality in a primarily comedic series. Kanaya and Dirk's sexualities are never gone into in great deal, but transexuality is a bit different, and it's genuinely hard for writers to do it proper justice.
UU is a Fairy.
UU seems to be an "Anti-Troll", and fairies seem to be as good a counterpart as any, especially since their existence was foreshadowed by Tavros. And if she does turn out to be evil, that would be perfectly in line with The Fair Folk
UU is from the universe the kids will create.
She assures that Jane and co. will be successful in their session.... Hey, why are you looking at me like that?
- ... Except I actually was about to post this theory- Hello alternate universe me. Adding on to 'my past universe self's' theory, the reason UU wants to sync up the start of their session with the session of the Alphas is because of the boundless help it offers both sides, and UU might want to be the reason his/her universe is created, in similar terms to Vriska wanting to be the reason Bec was protoyped. Nope, no stares at ALL.
UU is the pre-Scratch Signless / Sufferer
We know that the Signless was a originally a prophet of peace and equality before he was tortured to death, and we know that the troll's world before their own scratch was practically a utopia. uranianUmbra could be the young Signless from a kinder, gentler universe. Being "signless," UU would be free to pick his own symbol, and UU's caduceus is not far from one of the many signs proposed for Ophiuchus, a 13th astrological sign.
Perhaps the biggest barrier to UU being the Signless would be his gender — except that "uranian" can mean transsexual. If the Signless was transgender, it might not be noteworthy to trollish history considering how irrelevant physical sex is to reproduction. Karkat has been teased before for watching "movies for girls," so there's at least a connection between Karkat and muddied gender roles.
- Alternatively, UU is one of the other 24 pre-Scratch trolls.
- There's no evidence there's more than 12 pre-Scratch trolls, as indeed that wouldn't make any sense, unless you're including the pre-Scratch ancestors that became the post-Scratch players.
- Possibly supported by her candy-red cufflink in the shape of half of the Sign of the Signless.
- But Jossed in that her horns don't match at all. And appearances don't change between Scratched sessions, just look at John and Poppop.
UU is Feferi's ancestor, and trying to sabotage this session.
Just seems to fit with the Betty Crocker things.
UU is Feferi's ancestor from the Alpha Troll session.
As above, except she is genuinely trying to help the kids... at first. However, she pulls a Face-Heel Turn
because something that happens in the kids' session ultimately causes the Alpha Troll session to fail (similar to how the kids' beta session was doomed because of the trolls' failure to put the universe together properly). This would be a reversal of how Karkat and the other trolls were initially hostile to the kids, but later ended up helping them.
- Alpha is a designation that doesn't mean anything in the Trolls' session, so I assume you mean the original session. If that's the case, this is Jossed by virtue of Feferi not having an ancestor in the Ancestors' session. She was ectobiologically created, which means that she is genetically related to between 1 and 23 other trolls, and no others.
- Presumably what is meant here is the pre-Scratch version of the Condesce, the one who played the pre-Scratch trolls' session.
- Jossed; horns don't match and appearances do not change between Scratched sessions, compare John and Poppop.
UU is actually a squiddle
First, she is so painfully cheerful and nice to everyone, just like a squiddle would be, which is stretching it a bit, actually this whole WMG is stretching a bit.
But she seems to be cheerful to be a troll, he symbol has also got two snakes intertwining, which is quite like a tangle buddy I guess. Also there was this line:
UU: yoUr objective today is to pave the way for the arrival of gods.
Which, your supposed to think refers to the god tier children, but could actually refer to the god's of the outer ring the inspiration for the squiddles.
As well as this Umbral, the second part of her troll handle, means the darkest shadow, where no light could ever reach, once again an inclination that she might be tied in with the dark gods of the outer ring.
- She's confirmed to be a Troll.
UU is Alternia's pre-Scratch First Guardian
The only Ophiuchus symbolism so far has all referred to Doc Scratch, but a pre-Scratch Alternia would have a different First Guardian. Act 6 seems to be about communicating between reset universes. Only problem is that the hands aren't white.
- Doesn't she talk about playing the game herself? That wouldn't make sense, considering how players and First Guardians are created.
- Pre-Scratch Alternia did not have a First Guardian, which is partially why they needed to Scratch.
UU is responsible for the failure of the Pre-Scratch Troll session
- WARNING EPILEPTICTREES AHEAD: In line with the theory that Complacency of the Learned has something to do with UU's true identity, UU is the thirteenth troll of the Pre-Scratch Troll session engaged in a game against Lord English with the goal being to beat him for good. While ensuring that the Alpha kids succeed in their session she actively attempts to sabotage her own session to create a situation that will force her fellow players to initiate the Scratch which would lead to the events of Homestuck as we know them. Since she is the leader of her session she would most likely use ectobiology to do this (possibly making her responsible for Karkat's mutation)or by killing them all (keeping in line with Cot L). As for why she is no longer present in the post-scratch troll session it could be that ectobiology shenanigans caused her to cease to exist or she was removed from play due to her actions hindering the success of the session (thus giving it a better chance to succeed).
- There were only 12 players in the Pre-Scratch session according to Doc and Word of God.
- Don't forget, though, that players != impact on session. Dad, Mom, Bro and Grandpa were all running around doing things. Bro even began the process of the Scratch. Grandpa somehow entered and escaped the session completely independent of how the kids even entered.
UU cosplaying as a troll
The horns and keyboard are props and the gray skin is greasepaint. She's wearing Calmasis' jacket because she was influenced by Alpha-Rose's book, not the other way 'round. Her reveal is going to be such an epic Take That
at the MSPA fandom that the thinner skinned will abandon it forever.
- UU's brother is a Fan Hater or he's so indifferent to the game and its "characters" that he'll be a Gordian Knot-cutter. (confirmed, he hates that stupid thing his sister keeps talking about)
- There is no brother, she's just saying that because all HS kids are evenly divided gender-wise and have a Spear Counterpart. (Jossed, his name is undyingumbrage.)
- Pretends to be a Sailor Earth style OC. Writes fanfiction. Draws fanart (and gives Dirk wings to make him look more Marty Stuish), not to mention how (s)he repeatedly insists on being an alien in case somebody missed it. Not to mention that (s)he practically outright admits to reading Homestuck.
- Now that it's so obvious I'm not sure anymore...
- In short, UU is an in-universe fan troll. She's canon alright. Canonically fictional. Also, "uranian" refers to Guy In Real Life.
- This ties in nicely with her "anti-Karkat" theme: he was an alien from the past who was mistaken for a hostile human while she's a human from the future (seeing as she knows things about HS that real-life fans don't) who is deliberately posing as a friendly alien, or may be an alien posing as a different, fictional (to her) alien.
- Jossed, she has no idea how humans reproduce.
UU is from "our" world
In a World
is complete and being made into a TV series or movie franchise, an obsessive fangirl thinks she's stumbled onto a particularly intense role-playing game or Alternate Reality Game
. She thinks that her knowledge of HS will get her tickets to the premier or something and believes she's gained a rapport with the "actors" playing Jane, Roxy, Dirk, and Jake. She doesn't realize that she's found a/the real
HS universe and now the fourth wall has stopped protecting her
- That's pretty hard considering she's a troll!
UU isn't cosplaying
The horns and gray skin are real. Combining the River Song reference and the possibility that UU really is an alien, UU looks like a troll and trolls look like UU
, but they're different species.
- She seems to be a troll pretty completely! Going with Jossed since there's no evidence of a species that looks like trolls but aren't them?
UU's 'brother' is Jake
UU: i am so pleased to be a prospit dreamer. i'm sUre my brother finds his netherworldly affiliation similarly pleasing.
She never explicitly stated that her brother was a derse dreamer; she merely stated that he had "netherwordly" affiliations, which may be merely foreshadowing of Lord English. Thus, she may be the daughter of Jade and Karkat, as her symbol contains both their colors.
- He's a Derse dreamer and Jake's dreamself is dead.
Jake is not going to crush on mystery troll
Why? She's not really of cerulean complexion - her skin is grey. Hence the <???????? instead of <33333333. Hussie trolls us once again.
- Jossed already, he thinks she's cute.
The five surviving Trolls will be the new session's Exiles
This makes sense because in the other Sessions there were five Exiles. Plus, the Trolls are effectively the only ones left alive from their universe.
- Plus, there appear to be gray hands in this page.
- Besides, how else would the main characters react with the Post-Scratch session?
- By going to the session like they outright said they would. She mentions multiple parents... hmmm...
- Second theory is jossed. It's a new troll entirely, UU.
- No it isn't; Exile terminals don't work that way.
- Jossed: Only 4 Trolls go to the Alpha Session, and Kanaya is attempting to murder Gamzee.
Trolls, or at least some kind of alien, exist in the post-Scratch universe
Besides the implications that Betty Crocker is the Troll Empress, there's the statement about Jane being the only one of her kind to play the Sburb Alpha. It could be a Fantastic Caste System
, but it could also be aliens. (It could also be both, and whatever Jane's kind is, it's on the bottom with the exception of her.)
- Given the importance of "2x3 Day", it's probably The Condesce and the trolls.
- Or just the Condesce and whomever the 13th troll is. Jane is most likely just a bit of a snob.
- Jossed: More time on Alpha Earth has shown that excepting the Condesce, there are no aliens.
- Un-Jossed (at least partially) by [S] Jane: Enter.
- Re-Jossed by Dirk's account.
It is the kids instruments but none of it really sound like any of their previous motifs. The reason why is simple, this is not a song of the kinds working together, it's a song of the post-scratch session
- Except the art for the song clearly depicts the Kids.
- The track art for Volumes 7 and 8 were not produced by the music team, so they shouldn't be used to divine the artists' intent for the song.
- As far as I know the Music Team picks fanart to go with the song.
- I understand that while they may choose who draws the art, they don't tell them what to draw. Thus, we get a situation where songs like Even in Death and Judgment Day, arrangements of Dave and Aradia's leitmotifs, have Rose and John in their album art.
- Actually in the vast majority of cases the art is already drawn, and they just contact the fanartist for use in the album. For instance just offhand, Mayor Maynot had it's art drawn over a year before it was actually put in the album.
- At any rate Jossed; Andrew does not reveal spoilers to the music team, even integral members like Radiation. Moreover, the Alpha Kids have the same instruments as the Beta Kids.
- Though the song was later used for a flash about Dirk and the rest of the Alpha Kids.
UU is Her Imperial Condescension
- Or maybe The Handmaid
- Or BETTY CROCKER!!!
- Jossed, the Empress is on Derse. Possibly for The Handmaid too since HIC has Lord English's multicolored "aura" and Doc Scratch promised to let "Aradiacestor" die after recruiting the Empress.
The kids' pesterchum handles will all contain the letter U
If the original session was like DNA (aka, storing data), then Alpha Session is like RNA (aka, transcribing data to be used). Therefore it'll probably be some variation of AU, CU, GU, UA, UC, UG, or UU (if she's not the thirteenth troll)
- Jossed. Jake's chumhandle is golgothasTerror.
- Completely Jossed
- At least for the kids. U's might be used for UU's fellow "cheer" players if there's any more of them.
- Confirmed, but the original WMG is still jossed.
Andrew Hussie is a dimensionally-displaced Alpha Bro, and his real name is Drew Strider.
Alpha Bro's big irony speech was taken almost word-for-word from an answer Hussie gave to a Formspring question. Or maybe it's a speech that he's been giving for years, and it naturally springs from his lips (or fingers) when the subject is broached. Andrew is a pseudonym based on his real name, and... he thought "Hussie" would be an ironic surname, or something. Also, several of Hussie's webcomicker friends are the other kids. Just because.
- Jossed. Strider's name is Dirk.
Alpha Bro's first name is Dick
Or give me one other four letter male name that begins with Di...
- And that is indeed his name.
- Roxy does call him Dick occasionally. Let's just call it even.
Alpha!Bro's name is Dell.
And he could act as an engineer
- D. Strider does seem to be the most technologically proficient, having invented a near-AI auto-responder.
- Jossed (at least partially), it's Dirk.
Bonus WMG: This also gives him the right/opportunity to ironically sing "Rolling in the Deep", because he'd be, you know, a Dell
When the autoresponder refers to a "DS", he isn't talking about Bro.
A bit of a wild theory, but think about it. Who else has the initials of DS? DOC SCRATCH. He is already here.
everytime the "What Pumpkin?" gag appears, it has been Jake's fault.
In Jailbreak, this was quite common, since Jake was first trying this out, but as he started to learn more, he began to pull them out of different places, until he finds out that it's a waste of uranium.
In other words, the stories are all connected together, thanks to this silly gag.
- It's strongly implied that, at least once in Homestuck, it was WV's fault.
- Additionally, Roxy shares some guilt for these incidents, though mainly for the ones Jane suffered through.
- And thus, that's enough to disprove "everytime" [sic].
The Alpha!Earth has evolved faster than Beta!Earth
If you take a look at the Jade's Island before◊
the Scratch, there are some differences. The forest hasn't grown as far across the island, the Frog Temple looks a bit less weathered and the volcano is still active. I'm not sure if this will have any plot relevance, but it's there. It's possible the year is even 1431
The Condesce (or someone else) might've messed around with Earth the same way that Doc Scratch did with Alternia so that this happened.
Prospit and Derse will have, respectively, five and three towers.
Way back when Terezi and Vriska were writing Doc Scratch's code, Terezi's portion was five symbols in red while Vriska's was three symbols in blue. The red and blue teams were always associated with Prospit and Derse. So who's sleeping in the extra towers? Most likely Gamzee, Terezi, and Karkat on Prospit's side (with maybe Kanaya in Prospit's crypt, similar to Aradia), with Sollux on Derse. It'd be a good way to give the trolls a second chance at reaching god tier.
- The Trolls are not considered to be part of the Alpha Session as far as we know; UU never mentioned them and the Frog Temple has only 8 lands for the Beta and Alpha Kids.
- Jossed. Prospit and Derse have been show to have two dreamself towers each and no prototyping towers.
Trying to predict what each alpha kid will prototype their respective sprite with
- Jane: Seb - pre entry; Dead Poppop - post entry.
- Can't prototype the Bunny, as it has to be broken to complete time loops.
- Also, Jane didn't prototype it with anything pre entry (though AR tried to prototype it with Poppop).
- Jake: ? - pre entry; Brobot - post entry.
- Lalonde: a four eyed cat and a vizard doll - pre entry.
- Bro: Tiny Maplehoof - pre entry; Auto Responder - post entry.
- Incidentally, this also leaves two open slots for GCat.
- It's not really as bad as it sounds. By the time the kids manage to beat Jack, they should have no problem with another opponent od his caliber.
- They might do the sane thing and prototype GCat post-entry. This would have the benefits of a First Guardian sidekick with none of the problems.
- I am of the theory/hope that one of them will prototype WV post-entry, assuming the meteor gets to the session in time. Though it will hopefully not be Jake who prototypes him, because then he'd probably try to eat himself.
- Similar to above, I am of the theory/hope that some version of Karkat will be prototyped. I think it would be a nice callback to the Jadesprite incident, as well as finally giving him a chance at a kismesissitude.
- Dirk and Roxy both wanted to play the game to somehow revive their respective Guardians, however. It's possible they might just prototype Post-scratch Dave and Rose.
- Above are Jossed; the Black Ring and Derse and Prospit have all been seen, and it seems the Alpha Session will not be able to Prototype anything; or at least if they do, they'll have no influence on the session.
Maplehoof is the First Guardian of this session.
From what one can infer from this update
, Lord English seems to take on the form of what the general consensus' vision of Death looks like. Therefore, it should stand to reason that the First Guardian would be vision of the forebringer of Death in myths. One of these particular visions on Earth is a rider
on a very pale white horse
Also, Maplehoof doesn't have any eyes to speak of, much like Bec.
Alpha!Bro doesn't exist. He's the autoresponder.
- Alternatively, just as Jake's dream self is already dead before the game begins, perhaps Alpha!Bro's awake self may already be dead. Like Aradia, who was dead before entering SGRUB, Alpha!Bro may exist only in robotic form (autoresponder and brobot) until he awakens his dream self/god tier.
- Jossed. We've already seen DS when he spoke to Jane after getting out of the shower.
The Alpha Kids will have no Beat Mesa.
And neither did the Trolls(at least the second time around). Based on going from Beta to Alpha, the next logical step would be "testing phase" or rather a stage where nobody
gets to play. The top level is the "completed" universe they came from, where Earth, Alternia and other "real" planets live. Anyway, they are already getting a second chance, so if they mess up this time, why would they get a third? Obviously these 4 sessions are constrained by bugs, glitches and cancers, but the Beat Mesa is supposedly a standard feature of the game...
- Confirmed in principle, but Jossed in particulars via a mistaken assumption: the critical factor is a Hero of Time, not the Scratch mechanism. Aradia's mechanism was never seen, but that doesn't mean it does not exist. Moreover, the Alpha session is a very unusual and probably even unique session.
- I always thought that giant metronome thing was Aradia's "Beat Mesa". Keep in mind if a Metronome, it would be used to keep a "beat". Note that Aradia's time traveling orbitals are based on it, Dave's are based on Beat Mesa. It appears to be something that changes to match the player/session.
Bro and Dave are in the airplane flying over the city.
The airplane in [S] Act 6 is a curious sight, given Homestuck's near total lack of any signs of people other than the protagonists and their relatives. It would be quite strange of Hussie to put it in the montage if it didn't have any relevance to the protagonists, so it probably does. The plane being a jet chartered by Dave seems likely, since given that Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff
has been adapted into a feature film in this timeline, he's likely busy and powerful enough to do so when he and his little Bro need to get somewhere, and Bro having to play Sburb on a moving plane would provide some interesting challenges that would be fun to explore.
- Tentatively Jossed. It seems that Bro was just in the shower, though we don't know where Dave was.
- Jossed: It's just a Con Air Call Back it seems.
Not only will the God-Tier Kids join the session, but due to unfortunate circumstances there will only be four Trolls left, and those four will also join the session, creating a 12-player session
There are currently 12 symbols/elements/whatever you want to call them (Breath, Light, Time, Space, etc). The God-Tier Kids, the Alpha Kids, and the remaining trolls will fill out each.
- Meaning that Aradia and Kanaya will die (again) or otherwise be left behind before entry, but Sollux survived the flight to the Green Sun.
- We also need to factor in the first part of their titles. Karkat can't be in because Dave is already a Knight; Terezi can't be in because Rose is already a Seer. Also, the terminal that Rose found way back in Act 3 had 8 planets. I find it unlikely that the session will include trolls.
- It might be possible for UU to join the session somehow- that way there will be 13 kids from 4 different sessions. (Assuming UU isn't actually evil.)
- Possibly Jossed, Sollux intends to stay behind with Aradia. Only way for this to work is for UU to replace him, or for Kanaya to somehow change aspect.
- Jossed: The Trolls do not count as players from Sburb's perspective, as the entire mythology of the Alpha Session has been completely devoid of any mention of them. Moreover, Kanaya intends to kill Gamzee, and Mom Lalonde's book series implies the trolls will not survive the Alpha Session.
Since the God-Tier Kids were not created by the Alpha Session, they will not be bound by temporal inevitability there . . .
. . . and will finally be able to Screw Destiny
- Except that the Bunny is a pretty clear indicator that they aren't free of P-Space at all.
- If UU is to be trusted, Jossed.
Strider is in fact the First Guardian of Earth
Jake was referring to him; Alpha Bro's counterpart has a different last name.
Mr. Crocker has banned Jane from leaving the house in a misguided attempt to protect her from Sburb.
Sadly, he doesn't understand temporal inevitability.
- Alternately, he's banned her from leaving the house to ensure that she is able to play Sburb, whether he did so under his own initiative or under orders from the Batterwitch.
- It appears her Dad's trying to protect her from assassination. It also appears he wasn't successful.
- Well, she's not dead yet, thanks to GCat.
The Alpha!Universe is actually a pre-scratch universe
The guardians always did seem a little too prepared in the Beta!Session. We've seen Mom, Dad, and Bro fighting off monsters way above the kids' levels back in Jack: Ascend
, Bro training Dave since his youth, Mom accessing a secret lab containing Skaian technology, and Grandpa somehow getting into the game before it even started.
For her part, Nannasprite also mentions
that she knew about their ectobiological origins for years.
Finally, consider Doc Scratch's exposition
of pre-scratch Alternia, how the players had not been spawned in their session, which seems to be the case on Alpha!Earth. Ultimately, it's the Alpha!Session which scratches into the Beta!Universe, not the other way around, and the Beta!Universe scratches into a yet-unseen Gamma!Universe.
- We outright saw the Kids cause the Scratch; if this theory is true then it's an infinite loop which is unlikely as hell.
- It's already been established that the entire setting is a Timey-Wimey Ball, not to mention that Andrew has tossed RedHerrings at the audience before, so why exactly would it be outside the realm of possibility?
- Infinite loop? Don't you mean a DOUBLE MOBIUS REACHAROUND?
- This is also not the first time Earth's Sburb session has been scratched. Being a record, the Scratch keeps skipping back and forth between the Kids and Guardians sessions everytime changing something to help make a successful session. This could be the second, third, fourth or more than likely the 413th (and final) time it's been scratched. The Troll's scratched 1025 times before succeeding until Jack showed up. (Signing this for I Knew It purposes later, Pretzel Boy 11-21-11)
- Well everyone can also see how Pretzel Boy is incorrect for 2 reasons: 1) The Trolls canonically created the Beta Universe so the Alpha Universe will not Scratch and 2) If UU is to be trusted, the Alpha Session results in victory, so the entire theory above is Jossed.
- 1) There's nothing that says the trolls created the Beta timeline, only the kids' universe. 2) We don't quite know enough about UU to say we can trust him/her quite yet.
- If infinite loops are your problem, then maybe I should direct you to the fact that the Beta!Session was scratched because of the presence of The Bunny/Liv Tyler, who was built in the Alpha!Timeline. If the Beta!Session scratched into the Alpha!Timeline, then that's an infinite loop right there!
- Counterpoint to the WMG in it's premise: Nanna and the rest of the Guardians are completely different entities from the Alpha Kids. They're simply part of the Ancient Conspiracy or were informed of it by Betty Crocker. However, the idea that the Alpha session will Scratch into the Beta Session again, causing a loop, is impossible to confirm or deny, but comes off as rather silly since it would be stupid from a writing perspective, trapping the players in a cycle, and turning Homestuck into a Downer No Ending.
- The theory does not assume there is an infinite scratch loop to begin with (that started with the initial joss attempt). The Signless had "memories" from his pre-scratch life even though he was a different entity; the idea that the guardians could have similar memories is plausible.
- The theory does assume a loop in that the Guardians are remembering memories from a past session, meaning the Beta session we initially saw would have to be at least the third iteration of a human session, moreover Doc outright states that the Signless was an oddity, so his memories are probably a trait unique to him and him alone. Jossed anyways due to an oversight. The Alpha Session has no means of Scratching at all; none of the new players are Heroes of Time, and the Beat Mesa has already been used, so the Scratch cannot be carried out a second time.
- As I'm the one who came up with the theory, I can confirm that the theory assumes that the Beta!Guardians, save Dad, would have memories from their Alpha!Iterations as players, just like the Troll ancestors were the players in their pre-scratch session. The theory makes presumptions about neither a Pre-Alpha iteration nor a scratch-loop, as you suggest.
- Jossed, however, because the Beat Mesa issue is a totally valid counterpoint, as tardy as it is. Nothing to say about that unless some Weird Plot Shit comes up.
- The problem is that the Alpha Session from the point of view of the Beta Session takes place in the future, and the idea that people could remember from the future is kinda silly, even considering weird time shit already taking place, so the more natural conclusion is the loop, thus the third iteration. The entire mythology of the Alpha and Beta sessions have been geared towards one following the other, so there's no indication of this unknown Gamma session. Besides, Alpha and Beta apply to basically the version of Sburb, and game testing typically never enters a Gamma testing phase (the term usually used is Open Beta).
- Not sure what point you're trying to make when you've already jossed the theory with the Beat Mesa issue, but okay... What "future" are you talking about? The theory assumed the Alpha session came first, and the Alpha!Guardians (save Dad, who doesn't count anyway) are all older than their Beta counterparts. Remembering the future is not an issue for the theory. Thus, the loop issue is a hasty assumption more than anything else. As far as calling it a "Gamma" version, I got that off the Obvious Beta page, which indeed labels the late testing phase as either "Open Beta" or "Gamma," so moot point.
- Replay / rewatch "[S] Seer: Descend". It makes it pretty apparent that the Alpha Session follows the Beta Session. As for the loop; well that was a mistake I got from skimming and then didn't have the pride to reread things completely until just now.
If Doc Scratch exists in the Alpha Session, he will take on a different form.
The Doc Scratch in Alternia was created from the combination of a cue ball and a clown puppet (Lil Cal), as well as the "honk HONK" code (among other codes). The First Guardian of the pre-scratch Earth was created using the MEOW code, which may very well come back into play here. If the pattern holds, Earth's version of Doc Scratch may very well be a giant cat with a cueball for a head, as well as yet another "clever" pun.
- It's stated in-comic that all FGs are created using the same code. Rose and the trolls just wrote it using different letters.
- Tentatively Jossed. The God Cat doesn't have a cueball for a head and seems more like Bec in spirit than Scratch. GCat is a clever pun, though.
- Jossed: Doc Scratch is just one example of a First Guardian. Of course different First Guardians can fulfill the same role as him while looking completely different.
The current living players will join together into one unified session.
Combine the kids, the Alpha kids, and the six living trolls into one epic SBURB/SGRUB session. Each of the twelve known elements would be represented (the kids are Breath, Light, Time and Space, the Alpha kids are suspected to be Life, Hope, Heart and Void and the remaining trolls include Blood, Doom, Rage and Mind. Aradia and Kanaya would serve as extra heroes of Time/Space because they are two of the most crucial elements for the game's success). Also, there would then be fourteen players from three separate sessions playing together - yet another 413.
- Trolls from the point of view of the game don't seemingly count, although the Beta Kids do.
- Jossed unless Sollux changes his mind and rejoins Rose, Dave, and the other trolls.
- Partially confirmed at least with Jane & Jake outright stated to be the heroes of Hope & Life and with Dirk & Roxy heavily hinted to be the heroes of Heart & Void, respectively.
The God-Tier Kids are the "Ancestors" in the Alpha Session
Jake received his bunny from his Grandma, and we already know that he's Jade's grandson. A Scratch switches heroes and ancestors, so presumably when the God-Tier kids showed up, the universe saw no need to create new instances of the previous session's heroes and just dropped the ones they already had into the "ancestor" roles.
- If this is true, a likely consequence would be that Jane (probably) will only clone four babies in the ectobilogy lab (after scanning the God-Tier kids and mixing their genes), since the ancestors were already created in another session.
- The Kids are going to the Session, not Earth. Moreover; Alpha John (and perhaps Jade) is seemingly dead on Earth and that makes no sense in light of his Immortality.
- Jossed: All of the items (excepting the Sassacre tome) are in-universe duplicates, and the Guardians are unrelated to the four heroes of the beta session.
- While it's extremely likely that Jane's "slightly abridged" copy of Sassacre's is a duplicate, it's too soon to completely close the door on everything else.
- The Bunny is a repeat, the hat is a repeat, the Book is separate, Cal presumably is separate, and the rest of the items were things like pistols, and Mutie, which haven't been seen yet.
The other planets in Betty Crocker's "multi-global empire" are the planets Jade brought from the Beta session.
Assuming the Kids ended up on Alpha Earth, Jade probably put the planets somewhere nearby, and Alpha Earth discovered and colonized them.
- Did you see the opening flash? There clearly aren't planets. Moreover, Jade's plan is to go to the session, not Earth. What's more likely is that the Empress and/or the new First Guardian manipulated Humans to go to space.
- I have a feeling 'multi-global' just refers to the fact that the Betty Crocker empire exists on Beta Earth and Alternia as well as Alpha Earth.
- Jossed: It actually just refers to the Mars colony.
On Alpha Earth, Betty Crocker is Feferi.
It's been suggested that Betty Crocker is The Condesce, and a Scratch appears to cause the heroes and ancestors to switch places. Maybe that's why Jane Crocker is such a Betty Crocker fangirl, while Nanna had nothing but contempt for The Batterwitch?
- Unlikely; Betty Crocker disappeared suddenly on Beta Earth, so it just makes more logical sense for her to be on Alpha Earth than for Feferi to have come back to life somehow.
- Not back to life — the adult Feferi from the pre-Scratch troll universe is a separate person.
- It made more sense before we started to get an idea that Alpha!BC is pretty sinister too, given the subliminal messages in her ads.note
- Jossed: She's the Empress.
Look at Alternia, which went from being a loving, peaceful planet to, well... Alternia. Also, there are a few possible hints already; Jane, a 15 year-old girl, is not allowed to leave her own house? And is the heir to the empire run by a woman hinted to be either an Eldritch Abomination
or a Rubber Forehead Alien Empress
bent on conquering the universe. She also mentions "dealing with the low income bucolic classes," implying a possible strong caste system similar to that of the trolls. Meanwhile, Adventure Archaeologist
Jake English would "give your RIGHT LEG for a shot at desecrating THE SH*T out of some real life MYSTIC RUINS" (not too strange for a 15-year-old boy, but still noteworthy) as well as keeps guns around in piles and apparently deals with "FRIGHTENING FAUNA" on a semi-normal basis.
- Jane was being overly poetic to refer to the fact that she's a bit of a rich snob. Also Jake lives completely alone; Jade had uranium all over the place which is arguably even more dangerous.
- Betty Crocker advertisements have subliminal messages straight out of They Live!. This isn't a Crapsaccharine World, this is a Villain World.
- Also, the Mars Colony poster shows the Imperial Condesce's flagship in the sky above Mars.
- Jossed: Pretty much everything we've seen so far shows that it may be a bit more crazy, but it's more or less the same. While propaganda is spewed by most of Crockercorp, who holds enough leverage to get Guy Fieri appointed Chief Justice, Strider and Lalonde's reactions show that most people are Genre Savvy enough to pick up that it is Obviously Evil.
- We don't know at all what the general public thinks. All of the kids are poor examples of the average Joe, and it's pretty clear that Crockercorp controls the media.
- This is even more the case after [S] Jane: Enter.
Jane and Jake are Derse dreamers
Jake mentions the "regrettable REALNESS ATTRIBUTE" of "FRIGHTENING FAUNA", and his bedspread has images that seem to be horrorterrors on them. It seems to me that he is probably awake on Derse already. Jane would also be a Derse dreamer in order to pair her with Jake the way John and Jade were paired. Incidentally (this part isn't about alpha!homestuck, should it be moved?) This would indicate that the scratch flips dreamers. If that's the case, it is possible that the Sufferer could remember because horrorterrors saved his (Dersite) dream self during the scratch, and it was then superimposed on his sub-conscience.
- It's not the horrorterrors on Jake's bed; it's the Trolls' lusii. Look closer.
- Jossed; Jane has discussed waking up on Prospit and seeing Jake sleeping there.
The God-Tier Kids will manipulate events from behind the scenes to ensure that the Alpha Kids' session goes smoothly
It seems like the best thing they could do at this point.
- Jossed: They're going to outright meet up.
Jane's not going to be the player.
In her place will be her father, seeing as it's his
computer, and thus he is more likely to reach it before Jane. In this case, with the switched roles, Jane will be the one to die in Mr. Crocker's place. Also, it works if you consider this- Since this is a "Guardian Session", this means that the guardians of the players would be playing the game, and guess who was raising John?
- By this logic, shouldn't Godcat, counterpart of Bec, be a player in place of Jake?
- As incredibly unlikely as this is, this shipper would like to see this happen, if only because Jane dying for Dad would mean he'd still be around in three years when Alpha Mom/Roxy turns eighteen.
- This also fufills the Heiress-Sans-Parent rung on the Echeladder. They never said how it'd be sans-parent, after all.
- Jossed via mistaken assumption; Jane has a dreamself, ergo she must be a player.
All guardians save Poppop will take on a more active role at one point in the Game.
Since Nanna (in the form of Nannasprite) was the only guardian to actually assist her respective child, This would likely be inverted for the Alpha session, where all the guardians are actively fighting alongside their children or take a much more active role in general instead of being the heroes of another story; since they're essentially better versions of the guardians, they have a higher rate of surviving and making an impact.
- Considering the pre-Scratch versions of the same characters will be outright players (including, presumably, John), that would be very, very odd. And Jake doesn't really have any kind of guardian, not even an equivalent to Bec; both Poppop Crocker and Jake's grandma are, presumably, dead.
- If you mean they're going to be fighting while alive that's going to be kind of hard since Poppop!John and Nanna!Jade died of old age and if Dirk is right about Dave!Bro and Rose!Mom being dead.
The current events, with all the Alpha kids dying like flies, are a doomed timeline.
They're dying so easily because they're getting blindsided. Killed in their sleep (with deudly peanuts
), stabbed in the back, explosive-rigged mailbox, whatever. All stuff that only works because it comes as a surprise. All stuff that's easily preventable once a fully-fledged Knight of Time is in the game. Sure, Dave isn't there yet
, but once he is, time is his oyster, so he can go back and pull an 'I am already here'. Lord English isn't the only guy with time powers, biatch.
- Tenatively Jossed by the fact that Time powers don't work like that; Dave has to follow his own preordained path, and since the deaths seemingly are not a part of that, he can't correct them without causing a timeline split. Moreover his powers are primarily combat oriented according to Aradia.
Jane died because it was a doomed timeline, the Pre-Scratch kids will arrive just in time to fix it and allow her to live.
Although this is a bit on the unlikely side, as nobody was even in the Medium yet, and Dave had only been able to avert doomed timelines from within the Medium... But not impossible, given Dave's God Tier status.
Alpha!Dave remembers the Beta Universe.
Just like The Signless in the Troll session. Which is why he didn't get a montage in the Cascade video.
- ...He was in every scene with Rose in it, I think that counts as a montage.
- I think that's referring to the scenes seen through the fenstrated wall, as mentioned above, but it's more likely a coincidence.
- Who knows, he's dead! Also the Sufferer was unique.
Bro's original fetish was robots, not puppets
However, when he was young, robotics were both too expensive and not advanced enough to meet his desires, so he latched onto puppets as the next best thing, and grew into it through his life. D. Strider, being born later and having money from his brother's movies, was able to build robots to his heart's desire.
- Doubtful; Dirk is as into puppets as Bro was.
The style of speech that's popular switched along with the kids/ ancestors in the Alpha Session.
- Both Jane and Jake use very outdated slang by our standards, but it would have been in vogue during the youths of their Beta counterparts, Nanna Egbert and Grandpa Harley.
- Lalonde and Strider don't talk like that, though. Possibly jossed with Jake's admission that "Im not really abreast of the raddest jargon that the cool kids toss about these days. Maybe because i live alone on an island?"
UU is the descendant of Exiles
Her grey skin is the result of the blending of Prospitan and Dersite white and black, and her horns are just a cosplay outfit. This would explain why she has access to an exile terminal. Nothing has ever said that a universe can only spawn via Sburb once, and it would explain why it's important for exiles to reseed a planet after it's been scourged by the Reckoning.
- Alien blood colors = Troll
- Does it now? What about Snowman's blue blood?
- Snowman is a very special exception. Besides, she and her brother both have alien blood colors and haven't demonstrated any of the properties Snowman did, so it's safe to say they do genuinely have alien blood colors as they're trolls. At any rate, Jossed for another reason; Exile hands do not look like UU's. They either have 5 distinct fingers or claws.
The heroes of Time and Space who enter the Alpha Session will be Aradia and Kanaya.
This is based on very little evidence, but, hey, it says 'Wild Mass Guessing' at the top of the page. Possible evidence:
- The fates of the kids are often deliberate reversals of their ancestors' fates (Mindfang kills Redglare, Dualscar kills the Dolorosa, Summoner fated to kill Mindfang, etc). Given that the Handmaid was apparently destined to be killed by the Condesce, and given how strongly it's been implied that Crocker is either the Condesce or is thematically linked to her, it'd be appropriate for Aradia to face off against her in the new universe.
- Jane's recipe modus hinted at a possible way to create a new Matriorb (reverse-engineering Dad's hat), which would be a neat way for Kanaya to perpetuate the troll race despite Eridan's best efforts.
- An obvious objection is that UU refers to the 'legendary octet of mutual progenitoriety'. One possible way around this might be that the trolls created the original Beta Session, which makes them 'progenitors' of the original kids and, by extension, the Alpha kids too. Admittedly, it seems likely that this is over thinking things, but you can never be quite sure with Homestuck.
- "Mutual Progenitoriety" as in the eight that allowed for alpha session to happen? Well there are a number of ways that the four kids fit that definition as for the trolls. Karkat and Kanaya made the kids flawed universe, Gamzee ended up making the flaw but then who Aradia or Terezi have either of them influnced the creation of the alpha universe?
- Mutual progenitoreity refers to how the Beta kids and the Alpha crew are respectively the each other's ectobiological parents.
- And thus, presumably Dave and Jade will be the new session's Time and Space heroes.
- Jossed as Aradia stays at the Green Sun.
All four of these Alpha children are decoys.
Hussie is building these children up to be important characters, having them contact trolls, know everything that's wrong with their world, give them an entire empire... only to be killed the minute they enter the Medium. Four completely new kids who have no idea of what they're doing will be chosen in their stead, as Skaianet doesn't take kindly to All-knowing Players. The box is still going to be delivered, but by convoluted weird time shit and this session's version of PM.
This is going to be Jossed
anyway, but it was worth a shot.
- One down. Three more to go.
- The start of the bit with Hussiebot made this look very likely, that the Alpha session existed solely to establish Hussiebot's cruelty. But considering that the characters we just spent two years getting to know have just been consigned to an "intermission", it seems rather unlikely unless Act 6-2 introduces us to a whole new Alpha session; Jane is likely to survive somehow, just like she's presumably survived previous assassination attempts.
- Actually not; kid's long gone, now.
- Prettty much Jossed.
Jailbreak and Problem Sleuth is the future of the Alpha Session
As evidenced by the pumpkin disappearifyings; Jake has been appearifying them from the past all along. The Problem Sleuth characters are all Exiles, while the Jailbreak characters are an evolved form of the Prospitians. Meanwhile, the Midnight Crew that's pestering Team Sleuth is the Alpha Session's version of the Derse agents.
The assassination attempts were made to prevent Jane from playing Sburb.
Someone knew what was going on, apparently; if Jane played Sburb, then it would cause a chain of linking her other friends up to the game, therefore, in that person's mind, causing the meteors to come and destroy the Earth. To protect themselves and anyone else, they brought it upon themselves to kill her before she starts up the game; no Jane, no meteors, no Earth pieces floating around space. Simple as that.
- Jossed actually. The Condesce needed Jane to enter in order to bring her warship through to Earth.
The reason why Jane's survived so many assassination attempts thus far...
...is because the First Guardian
has secretly watched over her her whole life, instead rather than Jake or Lalonde. (Not much to confirm here, just how long and how many attempts.)
- Jossed though; GCat watches over all the Alpha Kids equally.
God Cat is loyal to Lalonde the same way Bec is to Jade
It's entirely possible Jaspers helped create God Cat (with a possible BARK code somehow), but God Cat won't be prototyped and will instead be a vital ally in the Alpha session.
- Alternatively, it will be prototyped, but not a way that breaks the Session. Lalonde will then combine with it when she becomes the God Tiered Hero of Void; since Void has been shown to be the opposite of Space, it makes sense that the Void hero will merge with a cat just as the space hero merges with a dog.
- Why did it kill Jaspers then?
- Perhaps it knew from the connection with Jadesprite etc. via the Green Sun that Jaspers has to end up dead and prototyped in th Beta session, so came to the conclusion that if he didn't die soon this wouldn't happen. Or perhaps it needed Roxy to get into the lab for some reason.
- Jossed: If anything he's loyal to Rose. Jaspers was not that fond of Roxy.
Lalonde doesn't really believe the Batterwitch is out to get Jane
When Jane told her she now believed her, and apologised for doubting, Lalonde's reaction was "ur makin me feel like shit here", and then she changed the subject when asked why. It looks an awful lot like she's been subjected to Oblivious Guilt Slinging
. Given that she's a Lalonde, and therefore a mistress of Passive-Aggressive Kombat
, it's possible her claims were purely to manipulate Jane for reasons as yet unknown.
- Very close; it turns out there was Oblivious Guilt Slinging, because Lalonde was trying to manufacture a fake assassination attempt to get Jane to believe her.
- Considering that Roxy blames Betty Crocker for her mom and Dirk's bro's deaths, this one is pretty unlikely.
In the new session, a cancer troll doesn't exist.
There isn't a troll that corresponds with the cancer symbol (except maybe UU? but she's more of a replacement, or probably the Disciple) in the new session, because the Sufferer/Karkat and his blood color was an anomaly and was never meant to be, so the game just removed him, or the "cancer" of the broken session. The Alpha Trolls are decked out in Sufferer symbols because they found the Beta session, maybe the kids send out a message, and were completely fascinated, like how Kanaya was when she found Rose's walkthrough.
- UU's session doesn't correspond to both known Troll sessions at all.
- UU and uu are both not based on cancer, so Jossed.
Rather, as someone hinted elsewhere on this wiki, it is a result of the Cease Reproduction command
from her Crockercorp headgear prompting her to respond a certain way against her will.
- There may also be some kind of cerulean influence- Vriska couldn't do it, but maybe someone else can.
- That implication is patently false; Vriska's mind control on humans was strictly limited to putting humans to sleep (and she couldn't even control the personalities of Trolls either, as Karkat demonstrated), so her doppelganger can't have that ability.
- And Andrew directly jossed this one in a recent round of questions.
Who's in the lab with Roxy?
Place your bets!
- Another of Dirk's robots.
- An Imperial Drone
- Temporally displaced Roxy's Mom
- Dimensionally and temporally displaced Rose.
- Dimensionally and temporally displaced Rose's Mom.
- A member of the Felt.
- Lord English and his cuestick pegleg.
- Some caretaker Roxy has we weren't aware of.
- A carapace.
- Ding ding ding! We have a winner, but also a loser! There are tons of them!
- SURPRISE FANTROLL
- Giant cat mecha.
- Pounce de Leon, or some counterpart thereof.
- Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff.
Jane will not enter the medium by entering the usual way
As it looks right now, she has absolutely no interest in playing Sburb. While the Alpha Kids seem to know a lot, they don't seem to know about the meteors. So her house will just be asploded by a meteor. She'll live with the lifey thing, and dad will live by mangrit/dadness. Jane will eventually enter the medium by dying on her Earth quest bed...
All the players have quest beds on Earth somewhere. When Fedorafreak found a quest bed, that wasn't Fedorafreak's quest bed, that was just one of the kids'. So Jane enters last, and Dirk goes and has Jake enter, and then Roxy servers Dirk, thereby reversing the order from the Beta session?
Just a thought. At the moment, Jane probably has 11 hours:11 minutes:11 seconds to enter. When she finally gets around to opening the cruxtruder, she'd then have what, 1 minute 11 seconds left? There's no way she'd have enough time left.
- Continuing on this, nobody enters the regular way. Roxy enters through the void, Dirk just sits around with one self entered and one self on Earth, and I can't come up with anything for Jake. Something Lord Englishy? If there aren't any lands in the Alpha Session because Jade is bringing the Beta sessions', this would resolve none of them being able to enter on their lands.
- None of them have entered yet. Roxy has gone into it and come back out, but entry specifically means doing something with a Cruxite item. Dreamselves especially don't count as entry, as awakening a dreamself prior to entry is fairly common. According to the Frog Temples as well, they all have lands.
- I wasn't saying that Roxy officially entered yet, I was saying that if she was unable to enter the Cruxite item way, she could just float in through the void.
- Confirmed / Jossed, depending on what you define as "normal." Jane entered when her timer ran out. She did not do a pre-entry prototyping nor interact with her prototyping item to enter. No meteor impacted her site when the clock ran down (though the Battleship Condescension reentered over her house). However, she did enter by following the normal steps using the pre-punched card, so...
- The Title of the WMG was confirmed but everything else about it is Jossed.
There WAS a Time Skip
after she entered the game, after all; technically speaking, she was in the game for that entire time, and it seems we'll be picking up only after it. That means she'll have YEARS to figure out the ropes, grind against random imps, alchemize increasingly awesome items, etc.
- There was not a Time Skip; Dirk and Roxy live in the future. From the perspective of Sburb, they're all operating on San Dimas time.
Jane prototyped herself just as she was entering the game
If you notice, she was glowing blue, with blue dots floating around, and the kernelsprite only a few inches behind her. Maybe GodCat wanted her to prototype herself by accident?
- Her house was glowing blue too. Seemingly just a side effect of entry which helps visually show that a location is entering.
Roxy, Dirk, and maybe Jake were sent to the future.
We know that Jake has to be in the present because we've seen him run around his island before it was submerged. While it's possible to sendificate, transportalize, and appearify across time and universes as well as space, the blurring glow as Dirk and Roxy exit to the surface may have indicates a time travel effect.
There are 12 "Anti-Trolls", and uranianUmbra is one of them.
It would make sense: all the kids in Alpha session are inverts of the kids in beta session, so rather than being trolls the aliens would be the opposites of the trolls from Hivebent. UU is definitely the opposite of Karkat so far. They probably aren't even called trolls or anything like that. They're probably named after the fantasy opposite: Elves.
- UU's race is the perfect combo of the pre- and post-scratch Troll race — compassionate and effective. Or to use various Something Awful theories, UU's race is the pre-scratch Trolls themselves in some sort of moebius quadruple reach-around to trap Lord English in the same four universes for some reason.
- There are at least 2, and possibly 3 Trolls in UU's session, so we're on the way towards it.
- Jossed. Only 2.
UU will go overboard with themes
Her cheerhandle and caduceus symbol refer to Ophiuchus (an alternative zodiac
, uranium, Hermes/Mercury
(although that's a different symbol
), and the snake in the Eastern Zodiac
. That's a lot of symbolism for one player; if she's part of a group that's like six Quirky Miniboss Squad
s in one and that's assuming there's eleven or twelve more of them.
- What if the new batch of trolls do have the Eastern Zodiac as their theme?
- If there's 11 more, no problem. If a version of the Beta Trolls are with UU then "Vriska's" spider/scorpion or "Karkat's" crab can replace the traditional odd-one-out, the cat.
- Trolls that already correspond: Equius-horse, Nepeta-tiger, Tavros-Ox/Bull, Aradia-ram, Terezi-Dragon, UU-snake. Unattached: dog, rooster, monkey, rat, rabbit, pig, and cat; Karkat, Kanaya, Feferi, Sollux, and Vriska; Eridan and Gamzee can stand in for the dragon (sea horse) and ram (goat), respectively.
- Jossed. There's two and they're both loosely related to the same sign.