WMG / Homestuck Jossed

Pre-Scratch Kids as a Whole

Dave and Rose will go down to the dark realm while Jade will go up to Skaia with John.

We already know John is going up, and Rose is going down the tunnel in Jaspers' mausoleum. In addition, John and Jade seem to be the 'brighter' two of the four-John's 'problems' are largely trivial and Jade just seems too happy all the time. Dave and Rose, however, have more serious, darker if you will, problems. Dave must cope with his brother's puppet fetish-and it has been shown to be having some effect on him, in that he has had nightmares where Lil Cal talks to him and he wakes up in a cold sweat. Rose, meanwhile, has an alcoholic mother who actively seems to spite her (opposed to John's father's obliviousness) and sometimes even tries to give her alcohol herself.

• Seems a bit unlikely thanks to; "A realm where four will gather, the Heir of Breath and Seer of Light, the Knight of Time and Witch of Space, and together they will Ascend."

John and Jade are the King and Queen of Prospit, or the White pieces in chess. Rose and Dave are the King and Queen of the Dark Version of Prospit (whatever that is), or the dark pieces in chess

Seeing as how John and jade are connected to the same spiritual world outside Skaia, it's not a strech of the imagination to think that Rose and Dave also have spiritual avatars, but on a different planet. And going with the chess theme... There are two boys, and two girls. A King and a Queen for either side. Fate demands that they compete, even though they're all friends and working together. Besides, Rose was working in the future with a troll, and both Rose and Dave handled the trolls well. John and Jade were both annoyed by the harrassment and unable to handle them well. Rose and David's dark sides come through easily by thier ability to handle, and furthermore instruct evil!

• According to the Dark Gods (via Rose), Dream!Dave is the "Prince of the Moon" - presumably Derse's moon. Extrapolating freely, this makes Dream!Rose the Princess of Derse's moon, and Dream!John and Dream!Jade the Prince and (late) Princess of Prospit's (late) moon. Whether this makes them the rightful heirs to the thrones of Prospit and Derse is a very good question, especially now that BK and BQ are dead, and WK and WQ abdicated. Jack you pretender!

The kids are on opposing teams

John is in the Land of Wind and Shade, fighting the army of the Dark Kingdom. Rose is in the Land of Light and Rain, fighting the army of the Light Kingdom. This is because John is an agent of Light, and Rose is an agent of Darkness. If the kids are color coded, then Dave will be on Rose's team (both blond), and Jade will be on John's team (both brunette). Strangely, John and Jade have been instructed by Shale Exiles, traitors against the Dark Kingdom, and Rose has been instructed by a Lime Exile, a traitor against the Light Kingdom.

• Dave's opposing Exile is also white.
• Oh so very Jossed (John and Dave have Dersite exiles, Rose and Jade have Prospitian exiles), but used later with the Trolls to an extent. However all players are on the side of Prospit and light.

The kids will win the war without overturning Nanna's prophecy...

... because they aren't actually on the side of good. They've just been assuming they're on the good side, but their victory will allow Earth to be destroyed and the cycle to continue. If they are defeated, however, the cycle stops. The "Bad Future" is actually a Good Future for everyone else.

• Jossed.

John and Rose grow up to become their own adoptive parents.

This just explains too much. Like why they're always one step ahead, and why they hook up almost immediately whilst knowing seemingly nothing about one another. Presumably, the session results in a Break the Cutie for both of them, with John becoming deadly serious about almost everything while Rose's drinking problem is the only thing keeping her from total Horrorterror-induced insanity. This would mean that the Wallet Modus is stuck in an infinite loop. The only piece that doesn't fit is Mom's paradox clone. Unless of course... That clone becomes someone else entirely...

• Jossed.

The kids will become the new EXALTED RULERS of the kingdoms once they ascend to Skaia, which has happened many times before.

Doing this, they save Earth's population from certain doom... by moving them all into the kingdoms. Unfortunately, the people who already live there will have to leave forever. adiosToreador was referring to the exodus when he said "iT'S THE MOST AWFUL THING, tHE WORST YOU CAN EVER DO," It is an endless cycle of one race kicking the other out of the kingdoms to escape an apocalypse. The current EXALTED RULERS were the heroes who saved the people of their own planet by working their way up the Gates and defeating the previous EXALTED RULERS (who were the hero of their own people and so on and so forth). Each displaced race is dumped on the usurpers' ruined planet; we know three of the survivors as the Wayward Vagabond, Peregrine Mendicant and Aimless Renegade, and the trolls are members of an earlier race who have managed to rebuild on a foreign world. In time, the meteor strikes will happen to some other alien civilization, and the kids will be the bad guys to defeat. (Of course, they'll be able to stop the cycle forever before that happens.)

• gallowsCalibrator has stated that the Trolls have their own exiles from their old world. This theory is looking good so far. * Jossed by Act 5

The Kids are somehow going to be able to create a universe as well, despite what the Trolls claim.

And it will be the Trolls' own universe. The Double Reacharound strikes again, with the sole purpose of making a place Lord English can't escape from. He's already here... because he's always been.

• There's actually a few inklings that this is exactly the case. Consider Alternia's Sun (red, Dave) and two moons (green, Jade and purple, Rose), and you have "influences" from three of the four kids already! So what about blue (John)? Go back to when the universe zooms out to Sollux's face — the troll universe is in the blue lense. Likewise, the SGRUB cursor is blue. It's not quite a solid argument, but given the nature of this comic, it's not too far fetched, either.
• Completely Jossed.

The Kids will join forces with the White King and give him the White Queen's ring to even the playing field with Jack.

It occurs to this troper that we never see what happens to the White King, only that his scepter is stolen. It's unlikely that Hegemonic Brute killed him (as PM had something to say about his interference), so it's possible that he's gone into hiding. We already know that the White Queen becomes an Exile, which rules out her further involvement.

• It's now starting to look as though the White King becomes an exile as well.
• Jack Noir persoanlly Jossed this.

Kids' Earth is not destroyed, but displaced intentionally with Bec's meteor delay.

As the Guardian of Earth, let modern tech be destroyed, like buildings, but the Earth itself? No, its been moved for safekeeping for a reboot after the Kids' game ends.

• No it's destroyed. Remember the Exiles.
  • Although, they do something similar with the Post-Scratch Earth, so bonus points.

The four kids represent Dawn, Noon, Twilight, and Midnight

This is really just a combination of two of the concepts repeated above: that John and Jade represent Light, while Rose and Dave represent Darkness, and that the kids all have their guardians figured out wrong. The idea is that when they truly understand their guardians, their alignments will shift.

• John is currently Light. He is discovering that his father is not a clown-obsessed weirdo as he thought, but was just trying to support his son's interests. Understanding this will improve his relationship with Dad, securing his place in the Light. John is Noon.
• Rose is currently Dark. She may eventually discover that her mother isn't constantly mocking her; she's just a very damaged woman who is really trying her best. Understanding this will improve her relationship with Mom, moving her towards the light. Rose is Dawn.
• Dave is currently Dark. He thinks his brother appreciates creepy stuff ironically, but will eventually discover that it's not ironic: he really is a perverted freak. Understanding this will worsen his relationship with Bro, securing his place in the Darkness. Dave is Midnight.
• Jade is currently Light. She thinks that Becquerel genuinely loves and cares for her, but may eventually discover that he is only doing his duty to protect one of the chosen ones (I hope he's not, though). Understanding this will worsen her relationship with Bec, moving her towards the Darkness. Jade is Twilight.
  • Okay, update based on the Mediums we've seen: John and Dave's are clearly Dark, while Rose's is Light, and Jade's probably will be too. So John is Twilight, Rose is Dawn, Dave is Midnight, and Jade is Noon.
  • Pretty much jossed. The darkness and light dichotomy comes more from Prospit versus Derse and entails a lot of similarities, for instance Rose and Dave are both self destructive while John and Jade are much more cautious. Also, Rose has moved even closer to the dark (or rather grimdark) and the effects of Bec's prototyping on Jack show that, yes, Bec really did care for Jade.

John's Sburb group is the only one with four members

Like the above WMG said, The computer that allegedly connect to the trolls are divided into 4 groups of 3. If they're all playing Sburb then we can be lead to believe that they are helping each other out.

• 4 seems to be the minimum for a session, aside from potentially 2. However it seems any even number can be used, and there are a few offhand references suggesting the Troll's creators were part of a 48 player session.
  • Jossed with the Alpha Session.

The kids' Titles are based on what they will face/become rather than what they are now.

It has already been established that John is the Heir, and Rose is the Seer of Light. However, this seems to contrast directly with their characters, especially since Jade is both more cheerful and a psychic. Ergo, the Title given to each kid foreshadows character development:

• John, as The Heir, must come to terms with, and accept, his father's love.
• Rose, as The Seer of Light, must learn to see beyond sarcasm and accept things as they really are (including her mother's probably non-ironic love).
• Dave, as The Knight, must learn to appreciate legitimate good qualities rather than simply wallowing in irony.
• Jade, as The Witch, must accept death and darkness in a more mature manner.
  • As of Act 5, this is looking pretty good
    • And then it was looking bad because they all actually did these things before the game started. Dave's quest for instance is more about asserting himself as his own person instead of trying to be his Bro or trying to be John. John's quest seems to be mostly derping around and becoming a leader.

The kids' family tree is even more screwed up than it looks, and precious pairings are preserved, due to genetic shenanigans.

It's easier to explain with diagrams.◊

• Jossed by Andrew. While Dave and Rose / John and Jade are not LITERALLY siblings, because they weren't actually born, they are as genetically related as siblings would be.
• Um... while the paradox clone recombination mechanism is under no obligation to mimic human reproduction, and the protagonists could as easily be Saiyan as human, what that picture says about chromosome separation during meiosis is... flat-out-wrong. During meiosis, homologous chromosomes not only distribute randomly, but also random swap corresponding segments. As a result, instead of... two... possible gametes, it's somewhere upwards of 2^23, with some variation between males and females due to the Y chromosome's fascinating but irrelevant-to-this-discussion methods of mutation suppression. In any case, the most obvious method of operation would result in a situation similar to the above, but since that apparently wasn't what happened, I guess it didn't happen like that.
  • Crossing-over is shown in the diagram at the beginning, if that's what you mean. That's the only part where meiosis is relevant? The theory is basically "meiosis did not happen, thus the kids are not related." If it's the third paragraph, that's justification why existing gametes wouldn't be used—recombination happened, leaving room for chromosomal errors and generally unfavourable combinations of genes, and also the division of cells leaves the possibility of nondisjunction. Making them artificially (i.e. having to read the code, recognize individual genes, then swap alleles between homologous chromosomes in a machine) is a waste of time and sounds like it has a much higher failure rate than regular meiosis. Ideally you want the smallest error margin possible, so the ectobiology machine would logically bypass it all together. Of course, it didn't, which is why the theory is Jossed, and the WMG was unlikely from the start because Mutie and all the other messed up clones exist. It would just be cool if the machine did work that way.
    • In both trials, the single y chromosome is used in exactly one child. It's not conclusive, of course, but there's only a 25% chance of that happening assuming independent recombination.
• As mentioned above this is outright jossed. They are related, end of story.

The kid's section, when won, will create our universe

Based on the end of Problem Sleuth, where after beating the game, Sleuth and his two partners come to live in the real world, it seems rather probable Hussie may come up with that.

• Kid's session is a) our universe anyways and b) barren.
  • Kid's section cannot be our universe. We don't have captchalogues, for starters. It may be an universe similar to ours, but different at the same time. As for it being barren, well, that is due Bec Noir right? All we need is some time traveling shenanigans and whamo.
    • It is our universe in the sense of close enough (Obama, Con Air, Movies, video games, pop culture etc etc etc). No there aren't captchalogues but we don't have Sburb either. Barren is actual due to a lot of reasons, even before Jack ascends Rose notices it is barren and the core of Skaia has the Tumor, which is not in a normal session.

The four main characters will come to truly understand their guardians and why they behave like they do.

And then we will see their faces, in sequences that will make us cry. (Mostly Jossed: Bro died shortly after Jack Noir gaining Bec's powers, but it did make people cry.)

• Inversely, Jade thinks that Becquerel is a loving, faithful friend, when in reality he is simply doing his job of protecting one of the four Chosen Ones. In his face-revelation sequence, we'll see it from Jade's point of view, with an adorable doggie face fading away to blankness. (Jossed for now. Jade came to no such revelation before prototyping her dream-self and thus pushing out Bec's personality and replacing it with Dream Jade's. In fact the last thing said before this was along the lines of 'Bec's been the best dog a girl could ever have. You're sure going to miss him!'
  • Jossed again: Jack Noir, influenced by Bec's personality, keeps on accidentally thinking adoring thoughts about the best most wonderful human girl ever. Bec loved Jade.
• All in all Jossed, as they all die. Besides, judging from the kid's reactions, they all knew anyways.

The kids are the guardians, apart from Jade, who is Betty Crocker, and John, who is DAD.

MOM wears a pink scarf that matches Rose's sash. John displays the same clown obsession as DAD, and shows an affection for suits. Dave/BRO used time shenanigans to move around like a ninja and ensure that baby!Dave had all the strife knowledge necessary to survive in Sburb. I have no idea how Jade ended up as Betty Crocker.

• Jossed: John made 8 babies remember?

The Kids are actually from the Alpha Universe

Remember when Scratch said Sburb players can be spawned outside of their own session? That's what's happening. So the ecto-kids John created went to the Alpha universe, and the ecto kids they will presumably create will go back to the Beta universe. If we assume that the kid/guardian relationship are totally reversed, then John, Rose, Dave and Jade could very well be paradox clones of their own alternate universe selves, and their guardians are their own ectobiological children. Which just makes things even weirder. Skaia knows how this affects the bunny.

• Which means that the meteors from the Beta!Reckoning went to Alpha!Earth and vice versa?
• Jossed. The meteors from the Beta!Reckoning went to both Earths (it's Homestuck, what do you expect?). There won't be an Alpha!Reckoning.

All the kids will contact their respective human-troll grandchildren.

Geodesic Cast and whatnot.

• Remains to be seen still
• Extremely doubtful as of Act 6.

The Royal Derringer is alchemized from the LEGENDARY PIECE OF SHIT, or forged from it by Hephaestus

I have no idea what Dave would alchemize for it, though... Perhaps a copy of Lord of the Rings?

• It's native to the mythologies of Sburb and Lohac, and it's the reforged Caledfwlch.

John Egbert

John is a Tomato in the Mirror.

The real John would have been able to lift the safe as Nanna predicted. The original is still around somehow, possibly a ghost, and is the one that drew the graffiti all over the posters. False memories caused the tomato to believe that Dad was a wacky street performer. The Magic 8-ball couldn't answer yes or no to "Is it John's birthday today?" because John has two birthdays.

John's real birthday is in December.

It's been brought up several times on this page, but here would be a good place to consolidate the evidence.

• Jade's Magic Eight Ball gave the answer "not exactly" to her question of if today was John's birthday.
• John having been born in December would put all four kids' birthdays in December (and all their Zodiac signs under Ophiucus, as mentioned above— furthering the "413" pattern).
• An offhand joke was made after John finished his second round of alchemy experimentation: "You'd almost think it was simultaneously your birthday, AND Christmas or something. Of course you know that is ridiculous and could never conceivably happen." The wording of this suggests that it could be either a) an oblique way of foreshadowing that John's birthday actually IS on Christmas, or b) a crack at the fact that, at the time that page was posted, it was approaching Christmas in Real Life while it was still April 13th in-story.

John is his own dad.

No, I'm not talking Paradox clones here. I mean he is LITERALLY the same character as Dad.

Picture this: When last we left John, he was sleeping and tied to a rocket board by AR?. Said rocket board heads toward Skaia while Dream!John's having his little battle with Jack, and ends up, while STILL ASLEEP, falling through a defense portal. John survives landing on earth for the same reason he did last time (whatever that reason is) and is taken in by a then adult but young Nanna. Because he went a bit into the past... AN Yway, his tech gets sent to Grandpa, who uses it to reverse engineer an build his own laboratory on the island (with help from Bec) and he realizes that he's in the past. Time goes on, he suddenly realizes he's in a stable time loop, informs those involved so they can get prepared ("You have a pair of Shades just for this," anybody?) and then remembers Davesprite's statement that they couldn't win if he wasn't in the game. So he goes, picks himself up from the meteor, and raises himself as his own in a gambit to get back into the Medium, which eventually WORKS.... And then all this happens again, but he's elsewhere....

You see what I'm saying?

• Jossed

John will save Rose from the brink of insanity using The Power of Love.

For added Heartwarming, it may be accompanied by "How Do I Live?"

• Jossed

John will be forced to break the Horror Terrors' hold over Rose.

What was said in jest here will become deadly serious.

• Straight up Jossed.

Act 6 will begin with John finally getting his arse into gear.

Dreamself woken up? Check. Traumatic experience of seeing his best friend's dreamself die in a Heroic Sacrifice? Check. Best friend's "realself" in dire peril as well? Check. Okay, I understand that Epiphany Therapy is rather cliche and unrealistic, but it just feels to me like we're close to seeing the making of John as a hero (well, "close" once you take the troll arc into account). With Jade and Rose (and possibly Dave too) at their lowest ebbs, someone needs to stop the whole thing falling apart. Here's hoping John can do it.

• Arguably confirmed, not for Act 6, but for Part 2 of Act 5.
  • Not especially confirmed.

John has latent psychic powers.

Not sure if there is much evidence for this, but his Pesterchum chat with Jade in this scene made it seem like she was hinting this.

• Confirmed a couple of times, firstly with John's prophetic subconscious scribblings (which led to Dad thinking he liked harlequins, which led to lots of harlequins in the house, which led to harlequin prototyping and harlequin-themed enemies and John prophesising he'll face them and oh GPI another stable time loop) and secondly, now that Dream!John is awake and on Skaia, with genuine cloud visions (although the powers are no longer latent).
  • John scribbled the harlequins on his walls because he had nightmares about the doll that Gamzee chucklevoodooed into his dream room. Then his dad thought he was into harlequins and decorated the house with them, which led to John prototyping one, which led to Jack Noir's dress code dispute with the Black Queen, and blah blah blah Stable Time Loop.
• However he doesn't have psychic powers per se, because Skaian visions aren't psychic powers. He did however have a latent ability to control the Breeze which he eventually mastered.

John can control The Ultimate Bunny through his Bunnykind strife modus

Remember the strife mode he picked up from the very first imp he killed? It lets him use stuffed rabbits as weapons. So once he figures out how, he'll either pick up and wield The Ultimate Bunny, thus also giving him proxy access to all of the ultimate weapons it's equipped with, or he'll be able to command the Bunny in battle as a combat pet.

• Either that or the bunny can act independently, as seen here.
  • The bunny acts independently.

John percieves the outside world's people to be nothing.

Just like how the way a guardian looks reflects their respective kids perception of them, that is exactly how John percieves the people around him other than his friends and family- like they never existed.

John will server host one of the trolls and one of the trolls will client Jade to form some kind of Mobius triple-reacharound thus making a 16-prototyped Jack.

Well, John still hasn't gotten his server disk. Perhaps once he does get it, the rift will do something to allow the trolls entry into the kids' game session.

• Jossed. He's Jade's Server Player.

John is going to have a one-on-one duel with Jack Noir

And since they're both expert pianists, the battle will be accompanied by the sickest piano duet imaginable

• If you're talking a piano duel, in the literal sense, I know some roleplayers who played one a while ago.
  • Jack isn't shown to be a pianist. Besides he's completely nuts.
  • They do duel later, but no piano music, sad.
    • Duel goes from here to here.

John and Jade are actually the same person

The plot twist that John and Jade were related to each other leads into this bigger plot twist that they're the same person but from different timelines.

• Nope.

John had a crush on Jade before finding out they were related

• Probably not, considering they seemingly are just platonic best friends.

John will meet up with Rose and Casey, and reunite with his loving wife and daughter for a third time.

Bonus points if Vriska gets him to dress up in a mullet and filthy wifebeater beforehand.

• Met with Casey, not Rose, no bunny so no reenactment.

John is being manipulated by everyone.

John is clueless as to what is going on in SBURB, so my guess is taking advantage of that and are manipulating him to their own ends:

• Rose is probably trying to figure out how to get someone with a server copy so that she can revive her dead cat Jaspers in the form of the Kernelsprite. (Gardengnostic mentioned she had a vision of a game that would bring Jaspers back). At first she tried to get it from John's Dad's car, but that fell into the Abyss, so she turned to Dave. (Well, that and the Forest Fire).
  • Confirmed, though whether that had anything to do with her dealings with John is unknown.
• Dave probably just wants to inflate his ego through John's Stupidity, but this remains to be seen.
• GG has likely had visions of the future she's trying to stop; however, we haven't seen much as of yet.
  • Jossed. Jade isn't trying to stop any of her visions from happening; if anything she's caused them to happen.
• Nannasprite appears to want John to get to Skaia. Why remains to be seen.
• The Vagabound is likely an idiot.
• As an aside, John's Dad seems to know more than he lets on, judging by all the meteor-related newspaper clips in the recently opened safe.
  • Jossed - Sburb didn't cause the meteors at all, except indirectly. They are a side effect of the Reckoning, and some have been sent back much earlier than ten years.

Later we see this is basically Canon, although not any of the stuff being used here, aside from Rose.

John has a Dersite dreamself

Just like Sollux. After dying, his new dreamself will awaken in a Moment of Awesome.

• I think you are forgetting that God Tiers can only really die if their death was Heroic or Just. John's BAMKATANACHESTSTABDIE was neither heroic nor just. So he's probably not really dead, just unconscious from the shock brought on by the very sudden stabbing and bloodloss, as would be normal if you were stabbed through the heart, except of course he's going to skip out on the whole dying part and just wake up once the wound heals.
  • It's debatable, because he was fighting an unfightable foe, a heroic cause if ever there was. Nevertheless, John doesn't have a Derse dreamself, there are only 2 towers. If you compare the troll's Derse and Prospit, their Derse has 5 towers and Prospit 7, so if it were a similar situation to Sollux, we would've already seen it.
    • John revives via god powers

Guessing the name of John's sweet-ass new hammer

• Since it very clearly is a combination of The Warhammer of Zillyhoo and Vriska's Doomsday Device(Amongst other possible things, including the Flourite Octet)
  • My guess is either "Zillyhoo Destiny", "The Warhammer of Scorpio", or "The Killing Joke"
    • It has at the bare minimum, Vriska's horn (on the tip), her symbol, the doomsday device, the Warhammer of Zillyhoo, and the handle from Ahab's Crosshairs. My bet is that Vriska gave him the code for Mindfang's journals, so maybe something like Spinerette's Crushing Blow or something odd like that. However odds are it will go unamed unless Andrew confirms via Word of God what it is.
  • One Fan Fiction dubbed it the Arachnid's Grip after Vriska's chat handle.
  • Fluorite Octet + Pop-a-matic Doomsday Cascader + Quills of Echinda + Warhammer of Zillyhoo = Fluoromatic Quillyhoo
• Jossed; Hussie referred to it as the "Pop-A-Matic Vrillyhoo Hammer" here.

Only John will attain God-Tiers

but the other party members are going to get the other Prototyping ring and the Staves.

• They don't work on players. Besides the Black Stave was destroyed, and WV uses the White Ring.
  • White Stave up for grabs. Seriously it has to still be important an entire flash ended on it.
    • HB knocked the white stave out of PM's hands, CD retrieved it and handed it to then 3xPrototyped Jack to start the reckoning. Wheather it is still in play or not remains to be seen.
• Now Jossed as of the EOA 5 animation, with Dave, Rose, And Jade reaching God-Tier.

The whole "I'm not homosexual" thing is a huge temporal misunderstanding.

John actually is homosexual (or bisexual). But thanks to this conversation, he deduced that Karkat was talking about himself and completely shot down Karkat since he figured that Karkat was right about not having a big make-out session with the trolls and Karkat had probably "GOTTEN TOO WRAPPED UP IN A SORT OF CALIGINOUS IDEAL" or was not "THINKING TOO CLEARLY AT THAT MOMENT", and deemed pursuing him to be a bad idea.

• I know this is a Het Is Ew fandom, but that seems a bit of a stretch.
  • I'm more inclined to think Jade is either bi or completely asexual—growing up with no human contact other than her deceased grandfather and a bunch of dolls, she'll probably find intercourse with either sex to be either equally enticing, or equally revolting. John's rejection of Karkat's caliginous advances should probably be taken at face value.
    • Yeah this is pretty jossed? John is interested in Rose and Vriska. Andrew at any rate is not genuinely exploring children's sexuality and neither should you.

John will come between HIC and the Alpha Derse Dreamers...with a twist.

John will appear between them, poised for attack. The Condesce will charge at him briefly, but then she'll get a better look at him—and see Poppop Crocker. She'll hesitate, giving John the perfect opportunity to blow her away with The Windy Thing.

• Jossed. John wan't involved in that battle.

Rose Lalonde, Jaspersprite, and Mutie

Rose destroyed Aradiabot.

If she could do what she just did to Eridan's computer, there's no telling what could happen to other machinery with those Thorns Of Oglogoth of hers.

• Jossed in [S] Wake: Jack Noir killed dream-Aradia while she was on her quest Bed, causing her soulbot to explode when her soul joined with her now-alive God Tier body.

Rose is Casey

Cause she has the bunny and that just makes things just a bit STRANGER.

• Um, no.

Rose's "black out" will be caused by an irregular ascension to the god tier.

As Doc Scratch just recently informed us, a god tier player cannot die, unless the death is heroic or just. And, as he mentions at the end of that page, the plan to destroy the Green Sun and kill Scratch isn't either - his death will usher in Lord English, a much greater threat. Rose will realize that if she reaches the god tier, the Tumor won't kill her. The "second quest bed" mentioned is an unusual phenomena of some sort, to the point where no one, not even the trolls, had any idea it existed. The only reason it's a viable option for Rose is likely because of her black magic, but using it to such a degree will cause the black out somehow when she ascends.

• Jossed, as we've seen her right before the black out and she's nowhere near death ** Technically, I never said anything about death involved in the "irregular ascension," but nonetheless Jossed (unless this is Rose's god tier). But hey, still half-right, the blackout was in fact caused by a huge degree of horrorterror-powered black magic. Woooooo

  • It isn't her god tier, but still seemingly on par with that level of power.

[WMG: Rose's dreamself will die, most likely at the hands of DD.]]DD has been keeping tabs on everybody and most likely knows about Rose's plan to destroy the Green Sun. Hussie mentioned previously that the reason the Black Queen doesn't kill the Derse dreamers immediately is because she has the foresight to know that they could still be useful to her. Jack, however, lacks such foresight. As such, he will try to kill everybody. And the only one of his agents on Derse is, you guessed it, DD.

• DD is indeed present on Derse's moon with Rose while it is en route to the Green Sun. Whether he will manage to kill her or not remains to be seen.

The Rose who died fighting Noir was a doomed paradox clone.

• Nope.

Rose will go blind.

She's the Seer of Light, for Pete's sake.

• Jossed

One of the Derse dreamers, most likely Rose, will destroy Derse.

Rose will somehow discover that Jack has agents on Derse. It's never been stated that dreamselves don't have the abilities of the original, so she will do something to destroy the planet, most likely killing Dream Dave by accident in the process. This is the event that causes Jack to succumb to unfathomable bloodlust.

• While I don't think that Derse will be destroyed by Rose's direct action, I do agree that the destruction of this Derse would cause Jack to lose it since that would kill the Draconian Dignitary, his apparent friend and likely moirail, maybe even the Droll too. With the loss of his last calming factors (besides possibly Rose and Jade due to the personality carry overs of Jaspers and Becquerel) and friend Jack would be more than justified in his rampage through the troll's session. In light of this, I think Rose will simply kill the Draconian Dignitary to make Jack feel her pain, and it will succeed beyond her wildest imagination. Thus the blood on Jack's hand that is seen when he enters the troll's session will be DD's blood, which will get there as Jack checks on his dying friend. As he escapes the scratch, his anger will be compounded by the fact that he is apparently unable to strike at the source of his misery (Rose.)
  • Jack doesn't really care that much about Droog. Notice when Slick thought Droog and the rest of the Crew were dead in the intermission; he didn't even give it two thoughts and just went back to his own business. Slick would arguably be even more compassionate than a normal Jack Noir, because he's had Character Development by that point.
    • Slick is the Trolls' Jack, so this is irrelevant (the character development/not caring about the other Midnight Crew guys) to the conversation at hand (re Bec Noir, the kids' Jack).
    • Slick and Jack are still very similar, and comparisons between them aren't invalid. Andrew himself thinks so, having said the main reason Slick appeared was as a preview of Jack's villainous nature. And again, Slick himself would likely be more compassionate than Jack, having had Character Development and interactions with the Red Team. At any rate, this WMG is Jossed, both of them go on the suicide mission.
  • Largely Jossed, but the technically correct, Rose does destroy Derse.

Rose is now Immune to Fate

Kanaya has said that after the black out, she couldn't see Rose afterward. Now that she's gone all Grimdark due to the Horror Terrors, she really can Screw Destiny now. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen.

• The Elder Gods are just another faction in the You Can't Fight Fate. And indeed according to Doc, this was her fate.

Rose will use the Magnetic Wodka to defeat Gamzee.

"You... You guess this could be useful?"

This Chekhov's Gun has been waiting to fire for far too long. And we all know that Juggalos and magnets don't mix.

• Rose's land is completely abandoned by everyone. Gamzee was taken down by Karkat.

Jaspers went to the future

Rose couldn't find Jaspers during the week he was missing, which means he didn't exist during that time, which means he must have been Appearified to years in the future (but not many), where he aids the future nomads, but ends up being killed, his dying wish being to be Sendificated back to Rose.

• He went to some other girl and was her pet for a while. Not the future though because he probably would've mentioned the sand.
  • He went to Roxy.

Jaspers is Rose's father.

She is the daughter of the Mad Scientists who created the appearifier, among other weird machines we've yet to see. In one unfortunate test run, Mr. Lalonde was accidentally transformed into a cat and they were unable to reverse the change. If Jaspers used to be a person, that explains why he is an apparently talking cat who wears tuxedos.

Their experiments were secret/probably illegal, and having a cat as a dad is just plain weird, so Jaspers became the "family pet." Miz Lalonde went overboard when he turned up dead because, well, he used to be her husband—she is understandably upset. Her drinking problem today is a result of all the stress that has built up over the years over not being able to tell Rose (or anyone) the truth; her grief explains the "absurd funeral service," the mausoleum, why the mausoleum is built over the entrance to the lab and why Miz Lalonde is trying to clone him. Incidentally, she must know that she can't actually resurrect him because the clones start off as embyros, so she is probably trying to make some sort of living memento. ^note The memento is his cat form for five possible reasons. One, it's just creepy to make a carbon copy of your husband and then presumably raise him as your son. Two, she might subscribe to the mindset that dictates human cloning is unethical but cloning animals is okay. Three, the cloning technology isn't reliable, and to see horribly mutated versions of what her husband looked like as a fetus is horrifying (nevermind that she's probably had to put failed copies out of their misery on multiple occasions). Four, should the cloning ever succeed, the clone ISN'T Mr. Lalonde even if he's got the same face, which is just heartbreaking, so the cat form would be more bearable. Five, mutant kittens are cuter than mutant human babies.

This may or may not have been what he told Rose during their final psychoanalysis session together.

Jaspers went to the future

Rose couldn't find Jaspers during the week he was missing, which means he didn't exist during that time, which means he must have been Appearified to years in the future (but not many), where he aids the future nomads, but ends up being killed, his dying wish being to be Sendificated back to Rose.

• He went to some other girl and was her pet for a while. Not the future though because he probably would've mentioned the sand.
  • He went to Roxy.

Mutie wasn't an imperfect clone of Jasper, Jasper was an imperfect clone of Mutie.

And a perfect clone of Rose's Mom's childhood kitty, Mutie himself.

Dave Strider/Davesprite

Future Dave triggered some Event Flags which would make it impossible for him to win the game as a player

I would surely expect that with all his level grinding and knowledge, Future Dave would be better equipped to win the game than Present Dave. So if it was an option, surely the best thing for him to do would be to shove Present Dave into the kernelsprite and take over (assuming he could convince the others to accept him doing this—so maybe convince Present Dave to prototype himself, or just throw something else in there and team up). Prototyping himself is almost the only option that denies him his level grinding.

Unless you think like a videogame. Hacking your save file in most Eastern RPGs and just changing the variable that stores your location to the first level would break the game. Odds are you'll reach some point where you can't move forward where you can't move forward because the event that was supposed to move you forward already happened. It's likely that Future Dave couldn't even leave LOHAC as himself, rather less take Dave's place... but as a Kernelsprite, there's apparently a built-in mechanism for eventually giving him the ability to accompany Dave anywhere he goes.

• Jossed (somewhere): future-Dave was from a beta (doomed) timeline, and anyone who from a doomed timeline who rejoins the alpha timeline is doomed to die within a few hours. Future-Dave could only avoid it by self-prototyping with the kernel.

Alternate Alternate Future Dave will prototype himself with Becsprite.

Because there can never be too many Daves running around.

Due to recent events . . .

It will be Dave who will have to fly the tumor into the Green Sun. Since, according to this panel, Rose's real self dies fighting Jack, this means that Dave is the only one left with an extra life. As such, he probably won't want her going through the plan herself since that would cause her to die permanently. Consequently, it will also ruin his hopes of ever reaching God Tier and surpassing John.

• Jossed. While Dave may still blow up the green sun, it won't be because he has an extra life.
• [Though he still wanted to, for the same reason, though it turned out to be irrelevant.]

Dave is part Weasel.

He is frequently resisting the urge to Flip the Fuck Out because of his brother's puppets. If the wiki is correct in saying that Shale Imps will appear in Rose's and Dave's houses, each with the houses' respective motifs, it's safe to say that Dave will Flip the Fuck Out.

• Jossed, Dave is pretty okay with imps.
  • And the wiki turned out to be wrong about why the imps were the way they were.

Doomed Dave has/had a dreamself trapped inside Derse

There are two Daves dressed in Derse Dreamer clothes, and there has to be some reason. When Doomed Dave died, his dreamself was awakened. Unfortunately, Jade didn't watch for long enough to see if this one died of the injuries it was presumably destined to receive.

• No he's DEAD.

The second Dream Dave belongs to Alternate Future Dave

When he was "killed," his soul retreated into the pendant and was considered "asleep." Then he woke up inside the core of Derse, etcetera.

• Nope, Davesprite's still kicking around.

Dave's impressive physical feats are performed by a stunt double.

Seriously, he turns into a totally different person in closeups.

• Art Shift

Dave will cause the Scratch, and do it in a way that saves the Kids.

We already know it will be either John or Dave, and as the Knight of Time, Dave is the one most likely to be able to somehow protect everyone from the reset. Alternatively . . .

• The main problem with this; if Dave was supposed to do this, why didn't he in the doomed timeline?
  • Because in the doomed timeline, Bec Noir was never born and thus the scratch never succeeded.
  • Bec Noir doesn't cause the Scratch. One of the players does, this discussion is about whether it was Dave or John. Bec Noir doesn't enter into it at all.
  • Jossed, it's John.

Strider killed the dinosaurs

Think on it. There is a truly massive meteor impact aimed for somewhere in the pacific ocean, which is quite possibly Jade's island. And yet the frog temple is still standing. Now at one point we see a meteor land where the frog temple will be years in the past, before there is a temple there. The Meteor has clearly been warped in from somwhere/when. It's possible that Strider, for some reason or another, warped the meteor back in time (saving Jade's house from firey doom). The vast explosion caused the extinction of the dinosaurs as we know it, and also marks a difference in the timeline from ours.

As to why Strider is the one who warped this meteor back in time, ask yourself: Who else is badass enough to have killed the dinosaurs?

• Jossed in later canon, Dave has nothing to do with Sburb porting meteors

Dave's dreamself will be killed

Thus explaining why John gets more powerful than him by the end, despite time travel shenanigans.

• Somewhat Jossed, since it turns out John made to God Tier and Dave didn't have the courage to kill himself to go through a transformation.
  • Update: Dave's dreamself has been awakened as the replacement for a dead Dave. Considering that either Rose or Dave has to die destroying the Green Sun, this may be almost simultaneously completely Jossed and very much alive.
    • Further update: Both Dave's and Rose's dream selves were killed while creating the Green Sun, and then resurrected as God Tiers.

Should Dave die, his brain in a jar will be deployed in one of Jade's/Equius's spare robots.

Seriously, it's one of the few things created in an alchemization session that hasn't even been used for a joke yet.

• Unlikely post-God Tier. And it was used to create the S Ba H Jifier, remember?

Davesprite will destroy the Green Sun.

• Since he's recently been confirmed as still kicking, consider this comic (Alpha) Dave made with the SBAHJifier while taking a picture of his alternate future self + this dream he talked about with Rose months earlier.
  TG: theres not even much more to it
  TG: i looked up into the sky
  TG: didnt see anyone singing
  TG: but even though the sky was black i could see the sun
  TG: it was bright as hell even through my shades
  TG: so i flapped my wings and flew up away to it like a fucking piece of garbage
  TG: and thats it
  TT: This doesn't strike you as an impulse of self destruction?
  TG: no
  TG: not in the sense that it was a dark sacrificial zoology mission
  TG: it was more like somewhere to go besides watching myself die a lot from the vantage of a feathery murder of dumb shitty birds
• He's going to go since he's a) tired of seeing so many dead Daves around and b) figures he's technically doomed anyway. Judging by the comic foreshadowing I'm guessing (Alpha) Dave will try engaging him in a duel (rather, 'show him [his] chops') to see who will go and who will stay, but Davesprite will just leave his ass hanging mid-fight or something and ascend to save the session. (Bonus points if it ends up being a Callback to Terezi and Vriska's standoff.)
• Not really especially considering Rose's on the mission.
  • Don't be so quick to dismiss that— we don't know she's actually left yet. Let's not forget the fact that Davesprite is currently in possession of a Royal Derringer. The same one Alpha Dave recently used to cut the moon's chain, perhaps? NEW THEORY: Davesprite actually steals the mission from her instead.
• Officially Jossed: Davesprite is talking with Jadesprite about some other plan. He's also mentioned he's more or less about to die.

One more Dave

Vriska tricked John into cosplaying a her whose to say that Terezi didn't do the same to Dave? Actually it has been pretty much confirmed that she at least tried to make him dress up like her, note the shades, but we have yet to see the full suit. Alpha!Dave will probably die at the green sun, only for Dave to return in Terezi cosplay as Omega!Dave.

The Royal Derringer is alchemized from the LEGENDARY PIECE OF SHIT, or forged from it by Hephaestus

I have no idea what Dave would alchemize for it, though... Perhaps a copy of Lord of the Rings?

• It's native to the mythologies of Sburb and Lohac, and it's the reforged Caledfwlch.

The trolls' and kids' universes are contained in Dave's shades.

One could think that they were within Sollux's shades, because of the zoom in/out at the end of Act 5 Act 1, but this can't be the case because his original shades were likely destroyed along with his body. Dave's shades, on the other hand, are still fine... mostly. When he tossed his own corpse out the window, it fell a great height before hitting the ground. When it did, the shades presumably would have broken. This would destroy both of the universes in them... were it not for the fact that there was still an intact pair existing at the same time. The paradox of the shades being both broken and unbroken at the same time caused the scratch to screw up the trolls, and will presumable do/have done something very bad for the kids, perhaps causing the creation of the Uberbunny and allowing Jack to become godly.

• This gave me a headache.

All this time travel is eventually going to lead to Dave aging to a noticeable degree.

We see Dave skipping ahead entire hours of his life and a time, doing this multiple times and sometimes skipping what might be half a day in a matter of seconds. It seems convenient now but if he does this on such a regular basis as he is right now he might end up years older than the other kids by the time the comic is over.

• He's only aged 2 days compared to the rest of the Kids before he stopped time looping.

Jade Harley/Jadesprite

Serenity is Jade

The recently translated Morse Code messages from Serenity bring some interesting parallels to light... and we've seen Vriska...

• No she's not; Serenity has probably already been exiled from the game. Besides Serenity isn't much like Jade at all.

Dream Jade's friends were Tavros, Feferi, and Kanaya.

And maybe Bro was keeping an eye on them. Don't you think they would all be happy together? They all needed it...*sniff sniff*. Sorry, there's Sand In My Eyes...

• They were probably the dead alternates of the Kids. Besides, Bro wouldn't appear in dream bubbles.

Jade is from the future.

Her house is ludicrously futuristic, plus she has a teleporter and a holodeck. It's possible that she's from the future and is using her abilities to commune with the past. This also creates an interesting dynamic with John and Rose in the present and Dave introduced in the past.

• [Funnily, this would be used for real later with Roxy and Dirk.]

The name of Jade's planet...

...is the Land of Forge and Expanse. We know that the Forge has to be there, so it might as well go in the name. And a wide expanse is like open SPACE, geddit?

• That, or in a cruel twist of fate, it's the land of Blood and Earth, with no mention of spatiality. Also, GristFest.

Jade's narcolepsy is actually her real and dream selves fighting over control of her

We saw in a recent update that when Dream Rose got Dream Dave's attention by tossing a ball of yarn at him, real-world Dave fell asleep instantly. This confirms that the kids' dream selves are awake when their real selves are asleep, and vice-versa. We also know that Jade's dream self has been active for some time... the dots are easy to connect.

• Jossed starting here: Vriska was the cause of Jade's narcolepsy by using Jade as target practice for her "putting humans to sleep" power.

Jade's Kernelsprite will not be prototyped until AFTER she enters the Medium

Every time a prototyped Kernelsprite enters the medium, their properties gives both kingdoms more power. This both strengthens denziens and generally makes things more complicated for the players. prototyping Jade's sprite will be seen as holding on to the Idiot Ball, and thus undesireable.

• Jossed in [S] Jade: Enter: Bec prototypes himself with Jade's kernel. As to whether or not Bec was holding the Idiot Ball... well, he is a First Guardian, but he's also a dog.

Jade's Magic Cue Ball and Magic-8 Ball will be Alchemized together.

So a Magic-8 Ball that you can the see the answers to, but is always wrong; and a Magic Cue-Ball that's always right; but you can't see through? If only there were a way to create an item with the benificial properties of both....

• This fusion will also prevent Doc Scratch from being able to explode it; and may even poison him in some way.
• Assuming it has a captchalogue code. It seems like the sort of thing players aren't supposed to have.
• Or maybe it'll make a Magic-8 Ball with no window, so you can't read the vague, useless predictions.
  • There are at least two combination operations; if this happens, just try the other.
  • Why bother alchemizing the Magic Cue Ball when you could just send it to someone who can read its predictions? Like say, Dream!Vriska who once again has vision eightfold?
    • Because that would require you to trust Vriska.
• Jossed here: the magic cue ball was lost due to explosion of Jade's dreambot. Instead, she alchemizes together the magic-8 ball and Rose's crystal ball.

Jade's kernelsprite will be prototyped with her stuffed grampa and one of the 4 "fellows" in her den.

Or maybe that's just what Hussie wants us to think... IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!

Jade's kernelsprite will be prototyped with her stuffed grandpa and the Dreambot.

This seems to make the most sense, with her grandfather fulfilling the 'dead relative' part and the Dreambot fulfilling the 'doll' part. Every ingredient in the kids' prototyping thus far has had some significance in the kids' storyline, and both Grandpa Harley and Dreambot fit this to a T. Plus, if you want to get technical, the Grandpa look-alike has red eyes like the Dreambot when he saves John.

• One of the trolls also mentions to Jade that her Dreambot will explode in the future, which fits the criteria for one of the kernelsprite materials being 'maimed' in some form or fashion.
• Do note, however, that Jade does not have to follow the pattern and probably won't — she's been the "combo breaker" before. (Bec, anyone?) It's possible that she won't prototype at all, or do something completely different.
• [Her own dreamself wasn't far off from the Dreambot.]

Jade's kernelsprite will be prototyped with her stuffed grandpa and the bunny.

We didn't see if the bunny survived thirteen years with Jade like it survived thirteen years with Rose, but it's not stated it didn't either. Even if all of its parts were eventually replaced.

Jade will somehow prototype her sprite with something involving a dragon and something really muscular.

If only for the fact that there will be dragonlike enemies with singular beefy arms if this happens.

Besides, it won't be long until we find out.

• Jossed. It got prototyped with Bec and her dead Dream Self

Jade's Meteor gets sent back in time to become primordial Earth

Going by this page, the meteor is about half the size of the moon. There is no way it can hit Jade's island and leave the general area intact, which we clearly see is the case in the future with the exiles (and no, you can't say the Frog Temple is somehow able to withstand it because we've clearly seen it take damage from much smaller things). Between this and the ever-present Weird Time Shit, it seems reasonable that the meteor could have been shunted into the past to fulfill yet another Stable Time Loop by becoming the critical mass which leads to Earth's formation some 4.13 billion years ago.^note If that seems 0.413 billion years too late, it could also be Theia, the object responsible for slamming into proto-earth and creating the moon.

• Jossed in [S] Jade: Enter: Bec destroys the meteor with his First Guardian powers.

Jade won't prototype her Kernelsprite, which will fuck up everything.

Jack will be prototyped with a Kernel, allowing him, in turn, to be prototyped with something... and he'll prototype with the Green Sun, making him into Lord English and causing the Scratch.

• Jossed in [S] Jade: Enter: Bec prototypes himself with Jade's kernel. (Of course, this still screws things up by giving Jack the power of the Green Sun)

Alternate Future Jade is still alive.

At least, her Dream Self is. Furthermore, she will turn out to be a villain, trying to screw with the efforts of the kids in order to counter Future Dave's Set Right What Once Went Wrong, and make the timeline lead back into her future, thus ultimately becoming Alternate Future Evil Dream Self Jade.

• Jossed, effectively: It was implied John and near outright stated with Vriska when they were mortally wounded that at least death wounds eventually transfer to the dreamself. Only a kiss from another player (technically royalty, but all players are princesses and princes of their moons) can prevent this from happening. Alternate Future Jade would have likely either just died in time or suffered an extremely painful, slow, transformation of burning/crushing gradually to match the no longer existing Real Alternate Jade. Unless a death that completely wipes out a body instantly wipes out the Dream Self to spare such horror.
• Oh and John died too so that's something you can comfort yourself with that at least they might've died together.

Jade, like Tavros and Gamzee, will not harm any of the imps.

She just doesn't like hurting things, anthromorphically persuaded or otherwise. It's possible that she could befriend them, just by... not murdering them on sight.

• Well, so far the only one she's managed to kill was killed by Bec. But she does seem at least set on taking them out.
  • Dave confirms that she's good at killing them.

Garden Gnostic is responsible for the creation of the Beta

GG's recently revealed Pestering with Rose brought up just about all the clues necessary; just combine with GG's ill-defined abilities and overall strangeness. GG tells Rose that she has just finished a birthday present for John that she's been working on for years; and it's sent in the mail, no less (OK, considering how far everyone lives from each other, it's not much of a clue, but still). A game of any kind, especially one as powerful as Sburb, would indeed take years to complete. GG also suggested to Rose the possibility of a game that would bring Jaspers back to life. And we have Rose saying that it's "pretty much all [Jaspers's] fault" that they're in the current situation. If GG's 'game' and Sburb are connected, then that would explain that line from Rose, considering how badly Sburb has screwed up the situation lately.

• But the Sburb beta wasn't GG's present to John; there was a green package with the mail that was still in the car when it fell into the void. Green is GG's signature color. However, GG was at least the first of the four protagonists to know about Sburb, and he intentionally turned Rose onto it in hope that it would bring Jaspers back to life. She may or may not have had anything to do with the development of the game.
• What would happen if Jasper was prototyped with the Kernelsprite?
• What about this little tidbit, though? Clicking HOME on the SBURB bunker/ROCKET sends it to a certain area. That place has the same geographic coordinates as GG's home. Later in canon it was revealed that while Jade herself wasn't involved, her grandfather was, and the pictograms on the Frog Temple are the code for Sburb * Wait, when was it revealed that Grandpa Harley had anything to do with Sburb?
  • Formspring responses/Hivebent: Sollux translated the pictograms on the ruins to get the base code for Sgrub and Harley was the only one who could have gotten them (the island was mentioned in the EOA 4 epilogue to be unexplored till the Harleys came through)

Jade will undergo a change in personality now that her dream-self is dead.

• Man, I hope she doesn't change too much. After the Act 4 ending, and with even worse stuff apparently still to come, the kids could use a bit of a feelgood arc (The Troll arc in Act 5 sort of counts, but not from the kids' point of view).
• This is still highly debatable. While she's known all along that her dream-self would die at some point due to her body being up at the top of the tower, she suffers indirect consequences in the form of her no longer having typical dreams. (Either she has dreams about the furthest ring or standard dreams.)
  • Jossed. If anything, her dreamself is more affected by her death than Jade herself is.

Jade will have Eridan as a serious threat, if not be killed by him.

So far, Eridan's two kills have both had some connection to Jade (Feferi is a Witch, and Kanaya's thing is space.) The latter of which had a dreamself death very similar to Jade's dreamself (we see Kanaya being burnt up, and the aftermath of whatever happened to Jade left her scorched badly), and beyond that connection, they all seem to have something to do with Squiddles or the Alternian Equivialent, Cuttlefish (Kanaya has a lunchtop very similar to Jade's.). Considering Eridan's theme is based off of Catchygrabber this would probably spell doom for anyone who is Squiddle related. And Rose blanked out her display and is much higher along her ladder than Jade is, so Eridan would probably pick the Jade over Rose since his attacks would be harder to see against the white snow. Plus, it would be like Hussie to have a Karkat 'You have never been so scared in your entire life' callback. And if Jade did die, the group that would be formed by that would be a group of four with 1 kid and 3 trolls.

• Jossed, Eridan dies to Kanaya. Also just based on weapons, Jade seems to be rapidly becoming stronger than Rose.

Jade's being the Witch of Space will give her the ability to bring forth the power of imagination.

She'd use it to turn herself into a blue-haired Magical Girl and she'd be assisted by many others. In the flash that came with the Squiddles album, we constantly saw a blue haired Magical Girl in the static and every so often we'd catch a glimpse of some other girls with different hair colors such as green, yellow, violet, and red/pink. Blue haired girl also didn't seem very happy at the end.

• Nope.

Nobody actually enters the medium.

Entering doesn't move anyone, but duplicates. The copies don't know this because the originals promptly die by meteor. This explains why Jade's island is still there in the future.

• Except that it isn't. You see that big chasm by the frog temple? That was her island. The frog temple was just off the coast of it. In [S] Jade: Enter, you can even see that section of the island vanish.

Dream Jade was playing games with Problem Sleuth Death

• Jossed

Lotus, or one of its variations, will be the music for Jade's land

Seems to be a likely candidate. It could easily be looped for a walk-about section or just played as is.

• Jossed.

Jade can write, but not speak.

She hasn't had the chance for a long time.

• Jossed, she probably learned to speak from Prospitians

Act 5-2 will end when Jade enters the medium, and Act 6 will end with the Rift.

These seem like the most logical cut-off points (though some twist or subversion is likely). That way, the final act will deal with the post-rift events where everything has gone to hell and the Grand Finale is immement.

• The first part got jossed. Jade entered the medium, and Act 5 still isn't over yet
• Second is jossed too.

Jade's Green Sun Streetsweeper will have the power of reality warping.

Come on, it has "Green Sun" in it's name, and the Green Sun is what gives first guardians like Bec their powers. This will make it much easier for Jade to kill Uranium Imps.

• It looks to just be a really strong gun. Names don't especially mean much.

Dream!Jade gave Dream!John the WQ's ring before she died

It wouldn't be much of a Chekhov's Gun if it was lost when Dream!Jade died, now would it?

• To back this up, when Dream!Jade is shaking Dream!John to try and wake him up, you can see her wearing the ring. When she throws him clear and then looks up at Prospit right before she dies, she's not wearing it.
  • Actually, she's still wearing it on her hand, it's just difficult to see at a glance what with all the flashing colors and how brief the shot is, but the ring is still on her hand after she throws Dream!John out of the way... that doesn't necessarily mean the ring was destroyed, though.
  • The ring was edited into that shot after multiple people on the forum noticed it, so apparently it's still on her hand as she gets flattened by the meteor.
• Sort-of confirmed: Dream!John recovers the ring from Dream!Jade's body.

The WQ's ring somehow managed to save Dream Jade's existence.

I mean... it had to, right.

• Existence, yes. Life, no. I mean, how else could you have a taxidermifiable corpse of someone killed by DROPPING A MOON ON HER?
  • ...Besides the Song of Time.
    • Jadesprite says hi.

Jade's Dreambot was programmed in ~ATH.

Its termination statement is tied to Dream!Jade's life, and as we know (or will find out), its conclusion can be rather explosive.

The recently kidnapped Aradiabot was swiped by Jade's space warping powers, and will be then occupied by Jadesprite.

• If Jade really is killed (vide previous WMG), Jadesprite will have to pick up her slack somehow.
  • Jossed, all of the Aradiabots shown so far have either been reduced to scrap or destroyed by Jack.

Jade is creating the Earth with her powers by combining the kid's planets, and this session and the Scratch are not simply anomalies, but intrinsic to the very functioning of the game

Just another layer of time loops for the former. That is, if Jade and John don't go back to the beginning of a new Scratched session, but instead go to before the existence of the Earth. Notice how much Skaia looks like Earth? THEY COULD PLANT IT THERE. Keep in mind, they're both immortal. They could wait. I don't know if the presence of a First Guardian indicates that a session had previously been Scratched, but that would probably support the theory by allowing for yet another Stable Time loop. Again. Not sure how it would work with the Trolls, of course. They had no Space-empowered being to do this for them. Unless I'm missing something... their pre-Scratch Ancestors, maybe? ...Or their own selves, pre-Scratch?!

I guess the fact that neither Jade nor John have time-based powers makes this one just a tad difficult. But I'm wondering why they don't transport to same moment they're in, but in the Scratched session. Apparently they do go back in time, but the first page of Homestuck is a bit more... symbolic... than, like, a field of stars.

And due to current events, it seems like the bifurcated session is not abnormal, but necessary towards the empowerment of First Guardians. The end is the beginning is the end, apparently. It follows a progression of Stable Time Loops, starting with small things (in the session, yeah, but I'm still confused as to the function of loops and the properties of time in the Universes that were just destroyed), move onto larger loops, until we see not only the loops in a Universe, an Incisiphere, or the series of creation that each (average) session partakes in, but the Outer Ring as well, or maybe even beyond that. It makes sense that Lord English would operate in a Timey Wimey Ball without any trouble, but also that he would not, depending on the level of involvement on his part towards The Game itself, waste a single session. It also turns the kid's from ants (in English's eyes, who would probably think that), to a much more important cog in the clock of English's plans.

This theory pretty much gives English a lot more credibility as a villain for me. He'd be responsible for everything! In a more specific way! His powers don't require him to actually view things in a "cause -> effect" manner. The two sessions and Universes were always bifurcated, always at the beginning of his plans and empowerment of his servants, and always at the end, taking place in what appears to be the cul-de-sac on the road of the whole game he's created. The beginning is the end is the beginning. The only good news I can see is that, if the remaining characters are destined to win, they're destined to win. Death of English would take place at the beginning and the end, and that is NOT too crazy a concept for Homestuck. The actual properties of this man are probably still unknown (Hussie's benefit for creating some new laws of physics and not being required to explain them), as well as the question of the destructibility of the Green Sun. CAN it be destroyed, at all? Is it necessary to?

I suggest we wait for the next update with Jade and John, as well as everyone else. Because that could disprove everything. Ha-durp.

• Hussie has said that the progression of images shown by the wall were being flashed by Lord English's coat, and are only symbolic of the Scratch undoing everything that has happened in the story.

The Jade from Davesprite's timeline will be Lord English's new servant.

Never once have we received solid evidence that she's dead. And it's certainly within Lord English's power to keep her alive even though she's from a doomed timeline. Besides, we still don't know what exactly happened to Betty Crocker.

Plus, she could very easily be alive in Davesprite's timeline. There's no doubt that Bec would try to protect her like he did in [S] Jade: Enter. After that, it would be fairly easy for her to find food and water, given Bec's teleportation abilities. As for shelter, she could just use her house, if it still existed. It would probably even have power, too, since its energy source is the nearby volcano. If not, she could use the Frog Temple, like AR did.

• Word of God is that that Jade died. Also there is no food or water on Earth; the only food and drink were from the Medium and super old.

Jadesprite has the memories of Jade from the same Alternate Future Davesprite came from.

She thinks that both she and John are dead, and that nothing in the clouds were true. Seems to match up perfectly with the alternate timeline where they both DO die, and the cloud predictions seem to be for the alpha timeline. Not to mention, if Davesprite is still alive, this could mean a touching reunion scene.

• She thinks they're both dead because she assumed they died when Prospit hit Skaia. The one from the beta timeline would be a separate Jade, after all, Jade prototyped the corpse from the alpha session, so the Past!Alpha!Dream!Jade was pulled back, but had experienced at least 13 years in Heaven or whatever. Confused?

Jadesprite will destroy the Green Sun.

It seems to me like Jadesprite would be happier if she was still dead. If she sees it that way, then she would probably be willing to sacrifice herself in this manner, especially because it prevents her friends from dying.

• Jossed, it is apparently going to be Dave. Possibly Rose but all signs are pointing at Dave.
  • Never mind that, it's Rose after all. Point is, not Jadesprite.
  • This is Dave/Rose distraction is most likely a ruse. There is another.
    • Kinda would be hard for her to blow it up without a bomb right?
    • All of the above have been Jossed. Dave AND Rose CREATED the Green Sun.

Jade, like Tavros and Gamzee, will not harm any of the imps.

She just doesn't like hurting things, anthromorphically persuaded or otherwise. It's possible that she could befriend them, just by... not murdering them on sight.

• Well, so far the only one she's managed to kill was killed by Bec. But she does seem at least set on taking them out.
  • Dave confirms that she's good at killing them.

Jade's power will be the ability to teleport, much like Bec did.

Serenity is Jade

The recently translated Morse Code messages from Serenity bring some interesting parallels to light... and we've seen Vriska...

• No she's not; Serenity has probably already been exiled from the game. Besides Serenity isn't much like Jade at all.

Dream Jade's friends were Tavros, Feferi, and Kanaya.

And maybe Bro was keeping an eye on them. Don't you think they would all be happy together? They all needed it...*sniff sniff*. Sorry, there's Sand In My Eyes...

• They were probably the dead alternates of the Kids. Besides, Bro wouldn't appear in dream bubbles.

Jade's Birthday Gift

The contents of Jade's present to John is...

• The Bunny. The same Bunny that Dave and Rose gave to John for his birthday, only upgraded with some unknown form of improvements to make it into the ULTIMATE BUNNY. This would make it the most powerful weapon usable with the Bunnykind Specibus, which was How Jack Noir was able to use it to fell the Black Queen. John is also going to end up using Bunnykind during the endgame. [This turned out to be the case.]
• A pack of magician's trick cards. With his love of magic tricks, it would be a good gift for John, and if Jack Noir has the same ability to make cards into weapons that Spades Slick does, it would be a very deadly arsenal in his hands.
• John's first shaving kit. He may not be old enough to shave just yet, but the day can't be that far off, especially since it seems to be a sign of mangrit— John's father is passionate about the practice, so much so that he felt The Fatherly Gent's Shaving Almanac was important enough to leave in the safe for John. And it would suit the story's coming of age elements. Jade, being raised by her Gentleman Adventurer grandfather, would naturally assemble a wet shave kit, including shaving soap, aftershave, a badger hair brush, shaving mug, maybe a styptic pencil (safety first!)... and, of course, a razor. But not just any old razor. Occam's Razor.
• In a throwback to Problem Sleuth, it could very well be the Tectrix of the Arbitor, also known as the Tectrixcalibur.

The bunny is powered by love.

It only worked for Jack because of his Kismesissitude for the Black Queen, but when he confronted John, John's love for Jade and all his friends overpowered it and took control. The kids will defeat Jack by loving each other and appreciating their friendship.

• Jossed

The original versions of the Bunny's weapons are wielded by the Kids' Denizens... but not their respective ones

Echidna, of course, uses the Quills of Echidna. Hephaestus uses the Warhammer of Zillyhoo in his forge. Cetus (or "the whale") uses Ahab's Crosshairs, and Typheus uses the Royal Derringer by process of elimination.

• Jossed? Hephaestus used the Fear No Anvil.

The ULTIMATE BUNNY holds each of the kid's ultimate weapons.

And as such, they will be able to defeat their denizens much earlier than they should be able to.

• Though according to Andrew, the weapons are reduced in size and too small for the kids to effectively wield. The bunny, on the other hand...
  • Should be a simple enough matter for John to captcha the weapons and send the codes to the other kids... provided that real!John is heading for Skaia. They probably won't have enough grist to make them yet, though.
  • The Quills of Echidna look like they might be big enough for Rose to hold already. It might be a pretty good idea for John to get them to her as soon as possible, given the Sanity Slippage that the Thorns of Oglogoth might well be causing (would also give John and Rose a chance to properly meet up after the way they narrowly missed each other earlier...).
    • Devil's-advocated above, but straightforward proof that Rose is losing it?
  • Nope, they're powerful but John at least makes something even more powerful.

The Bunny Went God Tier

Liv Tyler/Terry Kiser was on a quest Bed when it dies, you cannot convince me this didn't happen. It was Dave's Quest Bed and the bunny had already gone through plenty of time shenanigans, maybe it developed time powers, idk.

• "the bunny didn't make it."

UNSORTED

The world can, in fact, be saved

Nanna was pretty firm in her assertion that it couldn't... but our resident prognosticator, Jade, seemed to be under the impression that it could— and Jade is usually right.

• The only kink in this is that Nanna appears to have some manner of precognitive abilities as well.

The pets will keep getting passed around.

In the end, both Casey and Mutie, and probably some others, will have had a tenure with each of the kids.

• Jossed.

Maplehoof doesn't age.

In this strip we see Maplehoof with little Dave. Little Dave gets sent back into the past with Maplehoof. Maplehoof probably leaves Dave sometime later and ends up being found by Rose's mom and given to Rose as a gift.

• That would create an physical ontological paradox, and Homestuck seems to draw the line there: The clones were created from their own DNA, but only information (their genetic code) was involved there, and they still have a beginning and an end. If this WMG were true, Maplehoof would have neither.
• Jossed. After being sent back with Baby Dave, Maplehoof's only purpose seems to be cushioning his fall.
  • And being made into a bib.

In a past session there was a player known as the Prince of Space

And guns were useless against him!

• This is the best WMG
• Space people that have been shown have both been girls. Sorry to bring cold hard JOSS up in here.

A "Europa" character is going to factor into the plot somehow.

Eridan is a pirate. He shares his theme song with Skipper Plumbthroat. Eridan blinds Sollux with "science." That's a take on the Thomas Dolby song. Thomas Dolby also did "Europa and the Pirate Twins." Eridan and Plumbthroat, being potential alternate-universe counterparts to each other, could be considered "Pirate Twins." That leaves Europa.

• Jossed.

The Dates/Special Numbers correspond to the number of surviving members of that group.

The special number for the trolls seems to be 6/12 which is the fraction of trolls still alive. If Hussie uses U as part of the Pester Chum coding, there will be 25 kids playing. This means that there should be 9 more players. Homestuck then made 10/25 a special date, because it is equal to the kids and the trolls numbers added together. The kids numbers are 4/13 which, sadly, means that all of the dead characters from now on should be human kids.

• Sollux looks to be dead. So much for that.

Earth's Sburb session has already been Scratched, each reset will always have The Tumor, and Mr. Egbert is John from the previous session.

Earth's Tumor is not merely a mutation, but a design - Earth is the last of the worlds, and The Tumor signals the planned end of the universe. Each reset reverses absolutely everything about the session, so the trolls don't know about any Scratched sessions (even if they intervened in or even died in them). There was one session previous to the session where the story takes place, wherein John was able to successfully complete the Scratch, but was the only survivor of the game. He fell to Earth at a random point in time - sometimes in the seventies, to be precise - just in time to be found by Nanna, who realized the pattern of children falling from meteors and took him in.

In 1995, when the meteors began to fall from the sky, older!John contacted Rose's Mom, Dave's Bro, and Jade's Grandfather and told them the truth, which they were quick to accept due to their own odd upbringings, and told them to prepare their newfound children for their fate. Five months later, young John fell from the sky, and this John (not knowing that the Tumor was present in every session) both prepared him for his role as the Heir of Breath and lavished love on him, but (like the other guardians) did not actually tell him anything.

But their plans failed due to the presence of a Tumor. The John in this story, too, is fated to become his own father - but he will somehow (perhaps with a note from his father) be armed with the knowledge that the Tumor is in every session, and will use the time he has (and a new John) to figure out how to truly break the loop in a third session of Sburb.

• Nope, they'll go the session not the Earth itself.
• On the other hand, there is now precedent for the heroes of a pre-scratched session to become the guardians of a post-scratch one...

The Kids represent the Ghostbusters, and the Exiles various important people from Ankh-Morpork

The green slime ghosts, the eldritch abominations, the particle physics and, above all else, the dread of stairs. There's a lot to connect the Kids with Ghostbusters even beyond John's obsession with it. You can even draw parallels between the Kids and the Ghostbusters: Rose, as the detached, verbose straight (wo)man, is Egon; smart-mouthed, quick-thinking egotist Dave is Peter; the exciteable, bright but scatterbrained Jade is Ray and John, the loveable everyman who's just been dragged into all of this, is Winston.

So much for Ghostbusters, what about the Exiles? WV's hatred of kings and AR's passion for the importance of law and justice add up between them to Commander Sam Vimes. Charismatic abdicated monarch WQ then becomes Captain Carrot, and PM probably ends up being Moist von Lipwig. Which makes you wonder where Lord Vetinari is. Perhaps DD is a fifth Exile :p.

• DD's dead now.

Maplehoof is a robot.

Because see above.

• If it were true, it could avoid the physical paradox by having every COMPONENT have a definitive beginning and end, and every piece would be replaced at some point along the timeline, Ship of Theseus-style.

The real villain of the story is the paradox itself.

Everyone and everything is a pawn of the massive time paradox in which everything in Homestuck and Hivebent is entangled. Sburb and Sgrub, and thus the Skaias, no matter how powerful they may be, are merely tools. The only person with a chance of being exempt is Lord English, who may turn out to be the paradox's equal solely because he may turn out to be the personification of the paradox, as they are both amoral entities whose only purposes are to ensure and maintain their own existences, regardless of the cost.

• It's Jack Noir.
  • He is the villain. It's him.

The arc number has something to do with playing cards

How many cards are in a deck? 52... divided into 4 suits, with 13 cards each. And the playing card theme has been showing up often...

• Happy coincidence. Remember Homestuck originally started on 4/10.

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