Derse Dreamers vs Prospit Dreamers
Derse dreamers are too cynical to really grow up; they are trying too hard to be adults. They need to mature by letting go and enjoying their time left as kids. Prospit dreamers are too idealistic to really grow up; they aren't trying hard enough. They need to mature by wising up and taking responsibility for their lives. These are the "ultimate goals" for the game that Hussie once spoke of, so long ago. This is based off of an analysis of the kids, who it fits best. Some of the trolls cause problems for the theory, as detailed bellow. Note that pre-game personality is all that applies. In- and post-game, we have seen maturation and mellowing towards the middle that sBurb/sGrub seems to be shooting for.
- Vriska and Nepeta: These two seem to have landed on the wrong planet. They are the biggest problems with the theory. Vriska is totally cynical, Nepeta is totally idealistic, as far as we see. Perhaps Vriska is fantasizing her romances too much (ie, she thinks she's the troll equivalent of a princess waiting for her prince charming)? Nepeta I really can't resolve. Is she too focused on her moirail to focus on herself?
- Don't forget Feferi is a Derse dreamer. But going with Jossed. There seems to be no correlation between dreamselves and personality. While dreamselves are still rather mysterious, there's far simpler explanations at play for all known sessions. For the Trolls it was broken between the Red Team and Blue Team, and Sollux was an outlier (as he worked heavily with both teams). For the humans, it's simply genetics.
- Word of God is that it is complicated and hard to distinguish, but could be tied into personality and class. However, he also points out that it's more literally based on the teams and genetics, so Jossed is upheld.
UU is a half-human half-troll from the new universe created with this reset session.
After all, we remember how Rose's walkthrough influenced the troll session.
- She's at least several universes removed, as she has enough sessions to seriously study all the mythological roles in detail. She doesn't seem human at all though, having no idea how they reproduce.
- She could have studied the universes before the original trolls, or Rose's notes on the subject
- Jossed, UU is a completely diferent species known as a cherub.
The Hero of Life's function
Two theories here, one versus the other:
- The Hero of Life is incapable of being killed outside the Medium, at least once. This would mean that Feferi and HIC's abilities to resist the Vast Glub were not connected to their blood, but rather to their roles as the Hero of Life. This would also mean that Jane miraculously survives the explosion.
- The Hero of Life is the first to die in each session, and must continue their work from their dreamself or dream bubbles to ensure the survival of the other players. As none of the players were killed in the Trolls' session during the course of the game, Feferi's death was unnecessary; she was, however, the first troll to be killed in the Medium. Jane's explosion may lead to her playing the rest of the game as her dreamself, leading to the revival of Jake's.
- Jane did survive the explosion, though through God-Cat's interference. It seems the second theory is Jossed, as Sollux died due to the Vast Glub or Aradia died due to Vriska's machinations, depending on how you define the session.
- Jossed: Life is merely an aspect focusing on healing or vitality. Different classes can interpret this in entirely different ways, as shown with Meenah, Feferi, and Jane.
Specifically, it targets the part of the game the players had the most trouble with. The pre-scratch trolls had the most trouble with combat, so the post-scratch trolls are Proud Warrior Race Guys
. The pre-scratch kids had the most trouble with figuring out how the game works, so the post-scratch kids are already familiar with things like grist and the echeladder.
- Seems to actually be inverted.
- Scratches are done to make a game winnable; that does not necessarily entail making them easier. The Troll Sessions aren't comparable, as the difficulty of the Pre-Scratch Session is unknown, while the Human Sessions don't even face the same challenges, with the Pre-Scratch Session revolving more around combat, while the Post-Scratch Session as of yet has none.
A part of Bilious Slick survived Jack's attack
You can clearly see his hand
is still intact. It'll either be used to resurrect him or somehow create a new frog.
- Rendered irrelvant by UU's explanation of the Genesis Frog. He contains all alternate universes.
Problem Sleuth and (by extension) Jail Break are the future of Homestuck.
Specifically, it's where Dave is currently residing. It's already got the skyscrapers, so the meteors just need to destroy some of them in such a way that the remaining buildings are in a grid-like pattern.
- Problem Sleuth, Jailbreak, and Bard Quest are all video games in the world of Homestuck.
- We have videogames with historical settings in Real Life. Problem Sleuth and Jail Break are videogames with prophetic settings.
- The canons are too irreconcilable, the different origin stories are impossible in the same canon and the universe is completely sideways in PS.
- That's just the Immaginary world (the one accessed through the portals and the forts). The real world where they ended up in the epilogue though...
- ... is still made out of GPI's Part-pickles.
- Red Miles means this is impossible.
The post-Scratch universe is in or made from the Green Sun
Then that leaves the question of what God Tier Dave and Rose saw as they were climbing out of the sun...
- We don't know how a Scratch resets the universe exactly. It's been previously stated that the Green Sun has the mass of both universes, so in that sense they still "exist". The Scratch may have reset part of the Green Sun into a new universe. We can then guess that...
- Keep in mind the Scratch is odd; given that there can be multiple sessions per universe, a Scratch may make a duplicate universe so the other sessions don't reset.
- And given that part of the Genesis Frog holding the universe escaped Jack's destruction, its regeneration in some fashion seems much more likely.
- This appears to be pretty much jossed.
The post-Scratch universe is composed of both the Human Universe and the Troll Universe
Because they were both effectively combined in the Green Sun.
- We don't know if this makes any sense, and in fact all evidence is to the contrary.
Jake's Denizen will be Erebus.
In the original session, John's was Typheus (sometimes called the "Father of all Monsters") while Jade's was Echidna, the "Mother of all Monsters". In the Alpha Session, Jane's Denizen is Hemera, personification of day; therefore, Jake's will be the opposite: Erebus, personification of darkness. (Nyx would also be possible, except Denizens seem to always be the same gender as their player.)
- If John and Jade's Denizens were counterparts, then wouldn't Jake's Denizen be Aether (Personification of Light/Male counterpart of Hemera), not Erebus? Perhaps Bro's will be Erebus and Mom's will be Nyx.
- Not necessarily: Dave's Denizen was Hephaestus, not another monster opposite Cetus. While Jake's may bear one of these relations, Bro's and Mom's don't need to.
- Why would Erebus correspond to Hope at all? Also Haphaestus was male while Aradia was female.
- Mom's Denizen is confirmed to be Nix
- Jake's Denizen is Abraxas, drawing from Gnosticism like Yaldaboath.
Jake's consorts in the Medium will be angels, like the other Hero of Hope's.
And they'll be blue.
- There are no consorts in the Alpha Session. Angels weren't actually consorts either, like Sollux's brains, they were merely an aspect of the land.
The Alpha kids are actually from the Beta Session, and vice versa
Doc Scratch mentioned that the trolls were actually not created in their own Session. Well, what if the same thing happened here? To show how this is possible:
- The baby John that John created is actually Poppop. He goes to the Alpha Session with the Colonel Sassacre book, explaining why it has Nanna's note.
- This is Jossed: Beta John is seen landing with a bright blue Sassacre book, before it aged, so it seems Jane has the same book via shenanigans
- Similarly, the baby versions of Rose, Dave, and Jade are actually Alpha!Mom, Alpha!Bro, and Grandma English.
- Baby Rose's bunny (the original Con Air bunny) becomes Roxy's wizard bunny. Baby Jade's bunny (Rose's knitted bunny) becomes Jake's Indiana Jones bunny.
- Following from John above, there is no indication for this.
- Meanwhile, the paradox clones of Nanna, Mom, Bro, and Grandpa go to the Alpha Universe and become Jane, Roxy, Dirk, and Jake.
- In Dirk's case, this explains how Lil' Cal is in the Alpha Universe.
- The question arises then that how did Cal get into the Beta Session, where he held far more importance.
- This WMG then presumes that in Jane's Session, she'll create paradox clones of Poppop, Alpha!Mom, Alpha!Bro, and Grandma. These eventually become John, Rose, Dave, and Jade. Their ectobiological children become Nanna, Mom, Bro, and Grandpa (It's also possible that the ectobiological children will have different parents).
- The book is sent back to the past with Poppop's paradox clone who becomes John (it's also possible it went back with Nanna, making the book one big stable time loop).
- Jossed via mistaken assumption. Nanna's inscription shows that John was the true recipient of the book.
- Roxy's wizard bunny goes with Rose and becomes her knitted bunny. Jake's Indiana Jones bunny goes with Jake and becomes Liv Tyler.
- Lil' Cal appears in the ectobiology lab and goes back to the Beta Universe with Bro.
- Presumably, Alpha versions of Maplehoof and Mutie are sent with Dave and Mom.
- So to summarize:
- John, Rose, Dave, Jade, Jane, Roxy, Dirk, and Jake are all paradox clones of their Alpha Universe counterparts, and their ectobiological parents are actually their ectobiological children.
- The bunny's timeline is that the Beta!Con Air bunny goes to the Alpha universe and becomes the wizard bunny, which goes back to the Beta universe to become the knitted bunny, which goes back to the Alpha universe to become the Indiana Jones bunny, which goes back again to the Beta universe where it becomes Liv Tyler (and it goes to and from the Alpha Universe at least one more time!) This WMG presumes the Alpha! Con Air bunny/Lil' Sebastian is actually unrelated to the other bunnies and will be prototyped as Jane's kernelsprite.
- This is Jossed: Dirk directly states that the Alpha Bunny is separate from Jake's bunny plan, moreover Liv was destroyed by the Green Sun.
- Lil' Cal's timeline is that he was made by Gamzee in the Beta Session, goes with baby Dirk to the Alpha Session, goes with baby Bro back to the Beta Session, gets picked up by Jack after killing Bro, gets pulled out by Jack in the Troll Session, and then goes to the Troll Universe with a doomed Aradiabot. He is currently in possession of Gamzee on the meteor. The only way this timeline could be more messed up is if he enters the Alpha Session and then goes back to the Alpha Universe.
- There is no indication that Skaian portals can send things between universes, and every indication that they cannot. Moreover, Doc's comments applied specifically to the Pre-Scratch trolls, and it has yet to be explained what he meant by that, but it seems those conditions do not apply to the Alpha Session, given UU's comments seem to ensure that they are destined to win the game. One suggested theory that is not so off the wall insane is that they simply weren't ectobiological clones, but had natural parents.
- Doc Scratch says flat-out that the glitch foretelling Lord English's presence in a session is that the players were not created during that session. He also says that the original trolls arrived from the sky in a manner similar to that which we've seen other players arrive on their worlds during infancy. Furthermore, both Hussie and in-comic characters have stated that Sburb is the way in which reality is propagated, meaning all realities get a Sburb "install". If the original troll players were not made in their session and were not born via the natural means of their species, then it stands to reason that they were created in another session. Therefore, it seems very likely that Skaian portals can indeed send material to new sessions; in fact, this capacity to send across sessions may very well be the flip-side of the glitch Doc Scratch is referring to in discussing the original troll players' origins. While not stated outright, it is difficult to imagine another way for all the conditions laid out by Scratch regarding the original troll session, and those revealed in general Sburb exposition, to be met.
- The only things shown to transport things cross session were Exile terminals, and those portals had a distinctly different color than either the Beta or Troll sessions; implying cross session shenanigans specifically are a very hard thing to organize. If it were as simple as entering a portal, Noir could have done that without needing to hide in the Frog Temple.
- Jossed. There is one set of babies, those from the Beta Session, however, they were sent to two points in time, creating an alternate universe.
Lord English is Jake's legal ancestor
Many theories have suggested that Jake English is the source of Lord English's name because that's the backward way causality has flowed throughout Homestuck
so far, but what if the explanation is simpler? What if the reason Jake doesn't share the Crocker last name is the same reason that Jade doesn't share the Egbert last name? What if it's because his grandmother married into
the name English? Or what if he was adopted after her death or if she was separately adopted by him when the Batterwitch took John?
Alpha(scratched) session is already doomed
Somewhat twisted logic, so step by step process follows.
- 1. Jade makes tadpole universal frog and places it inside an 8-ball for safe keeping.
- 2. Said 8-ball falls into volcano.
- 3. A small leap in reasoning leads to the frog little jade recovers in the past being the same frog that she would later create in the future.
- So the key to making a universe frog stable is combining it with itself, honestly not that much weirder than anything else so far.
- 4. Alpha session's sun and the frog are the same color (assuming blinding white light is still considered a color)
- 5. Bec zaps said frog to death for no appearent reason, which in turn dooms Alpha session's universe.
- Also this means that three different universes have been destroyed by the power of a Guardian (seriously is that a joke title or what?)
- Bec killed the white frog so as to interfere with its personal timeline. By doing so, he ensured its causal entanglement, ensuring that it would not be appearified but paradox slimified instead, thus allowing for the creation of the Genesis frog. This still leaves the question of where the white frog was sendificated from, however.
- The frog Jade found is not the Genesis Frog. The frog Jade made is also not the Genesis Frog (yet); that has to apparently be placed in the final version of Skaia and since Skaia no longer exists. Said small leap in reasoning makes no logical sense at all. Also the sun is the same color; it's called artistic effect, much like how the Troll's sun really isn't a giant heat vortex like it was shown when it blinded Terezi.
- At any rate it is still doomed, but because it's the product of a faulty universe more than anything listed above.
- Sburb exists in the universe, therefore the universe is doomed by default.
- I thought Sburb just dooms a planet, not a whole universe.
- Sburb means English gets into a Universe which means it ultimately is destroyed. In the only known session where he wasn't able to enter, that is true that only Alternia was destroyed, but the Scratch brought him into it.
- After rereading the comic very recently, I can say with certainty that it is never said that Sburb's existence = Lord English's existence. The only mention of the conditions for which universes he picks is a glitch in the game where the players are not ectobiologically created in their own session.
- That condition doesn't apply to any session at all actually. The glitch that hampered the first Troll Session is completely unknown as of yet, the fact that they weren't created in their own session is a symptom more than anything else. At any rate, the WMG is Jossed, due to the existence of GCat it can be inferred that Lord English will be involved at some point given both sessions seen so far with First Guardians were doomed, albeit the Kid's Session indirectly, via Jack.
- Wait, what? Didn't Karkat say every universe has a first guardian? Did the existence of Bec have anything whatsoever to do with Lord English?
- Karkat doesn't know everything. Regardless, the one known iteration of Lord English was dependent on the First Guardian, and Jack Noir would not have existed in his current form were it not for Bec and English's machinations via Doc. So while there's not someone directly saying in comic that First Guardians serve English, it's pretty apparent that they do.
- It's very likely that that tadpole will be the Genesis Frog, though. From the flash update where grimdark Rose looks through the castle:
- Rose's exposition Jossed this directly.
Spidery Vampire is Lord English
They both have weird eyes, and probably it'll be Spidery Vampire that'll inspire Jake to create Lord English, going back in time and giving him his theme, creating another Stable Time Loop.
- Probably partly Jossed; Aranea has been confirmed to be pre-Scratch Mindfang/Vriska.
Basically every session except the Alpha/Beta ones are Troll sessions. There are only humans at all because Karkat/Kanaya skipped the last frog
UU can't see into the Alpha session because of Roxy, but she implies that she can see into just about every other session. When she draws god-tier Dirk she sticks the god-tier-troll wings on him, which implies that she's only ever seen trolls reach the god tier, which would imply that any other session with humans either A) gets blacked out or B) never gets any god tiers or C) are uncommon enough that UU's never seen them.
- What seems to have been implied is that Humanity has gone extinct since the end of the Alpha Session or else they live completely apart from Trolls, possibly even in another universe entirely. UU doesn't seem to have observed many sessions though, and her research instead seems to be in a historical sense. While it's unknown why trolls are so dominant later, Humans certainly didn't evolve solely because of Kanaya and Karkat's mistakes, as dozens of species evolve in universes created by Sburb, and the Trolls themselves are the products of a 48 player session of unknown species.
- Oh Hussie how you managed to bait us so.
There will be a Problem Sleuth intermission.
The first meta thing in the beta session was the webpage for MSPA, and it showed the Midnight Crew, foreshadowing the Midnight Crew intermission. So, Jane's love for Problem Sleuth foreshadows a Problem Sleuth intermission in the Alpha Session. Also, the PS intermission will parallel the Midnight Crew Intermission. The PS cast are all Prospitians.
- Not only that, but Team Sleuth (along with Hysterical Dame and Nervous Broad) will be the Exiles of...some other session (pre-Scratch Ancestor, probably). It will culminate with PS and co. jumping into the main plot, as PS already has experience with nigh-invulnerable mob bosses.
- Jossed by Word of God; the PS crew will not appear in Homestuck.
Dog-Tier Jade will fuse her Battlefield with the Alpha Session's Battlefield to bring it up to Level 8.
The Battlefield "levels up" each time a player enters the session. Since the God-Tier Kids will be in the Alpha Session, there will be eight players, so the Battlefield should level up eight times. However, the Kids have already prototyped their Sprites and leveled up their own Battlefield, and the Alpha Kids will only bring it up to Level 4. The remaining four levels will come from the God-Tier Kids' Battlefield, which Jade brought with her.
- Alternately, the Alpha Session won't have a Battlefield until Jade brings hers... but her battlefield is in pretty rough shape and it's not clear if it's possible for it to level up more times, especially if it's not in the same session when some of the alpha kids arrive.
- Original theory jossed, alternate theory semi-confirmed. There was a battlefield, but CD blew it up.
Gamzee is hording the troll-corpses somewhere connected to the "coffee machine" we see in Act 6, and that beverage ain't coffee; it's troll-juice
A pretty straight-forward theory. First, no one seems to know where the "coffee machine" came from. Second, no one seems to know how it works. Third, Dave's "[this] coffee sucks" comment; it doesn’t taste like coffee, but to him that’s what it looks like, so he labels it “bad coffee” and doesn’t think anything more about it. The reason it doesn’t taste like coffee, though, is because it isn’t. Fourth, we never see any of the trolls drinking or referring to drinking coffee; pretty weird when you consider Karkat does not sleep at all from the end of their session until the meet-up scene on the asteroid. Fifth, the "film" we see on the coffee is part of the hemospectrum
- Pretty jossed. Gamzee saved their blood and is using it as "potions". Besides that film actually exists in shitty coffee.
Act 7 will either be the beta version of Homestuck, or will end with a link to the first page, causing a Stable Time Loop
Most characters that have changed over the course of the story will be taken care of by the end, but the Alpha session will end up scratching, triggering a switch back to the original session. Okay that doesn't really make any sense but I thought it was funny.
- A scratch from the Alpha session seems unlikely- not due to impending success, but because the Beat Mesa belongs to the Hero of Time's planet. There shouldn't be an extra Beat Mesa in the Alpha session, and the Beta kids already flung theirs into Skaia.
- There was a much more in depth discussion of this on the Alpha WMG page, and we concluded that it is Jossed. All signs, from UU and Rose and others, indicate that the Alpha Session will be successful, and unless Dirk's land has some sort of Scratch mechanism (much like Dave was half-awake on Derse, despite that being part of a Hero of Heart's apparent role), there's no way for them to Scratch anyways.
The Flash showing the Pre-Scratch Kids & the Trolls entering the Post-Scratch game will be released on the 31st of May.
And it will use 'Beta Version' from the album Mobius Trip and Hadron Kaleido
Because if it did, not only would the song tie into the flash, it would keep up with the current theme of using songs from the solo albums a year after the albums were released.
There is no difference between the Guardians of the beta verse and the Kids of the alpha universe, and vice versa.
In other words, Bro, Mom, Nanna, and Grandpa in the beta universe are the Dirk, Roxy, Jane, and Jake we've come to know and love; John, Rose, Jade, and Dave are the same people as Poppop, Roxy's mom, Dirk's bro, and Jake's grandma. Homestuck will end with them winning the game and successfully creating a new universe, but they will be unable to claim their prize. In order to keep the time loops stable, the alpha kids will have to go back in time to raise the kids in the beta universe, and the beta kids will have to go back in time to pave the way for the kids in the alpha universe. In the end, the only one to survive will be Jane, because she will eventually be brought back as Nannasprite.
- This is Jossed because this is factually not how the Scratch works AT ALL. The two sets of kids and their counterparts are no more connected than Spades Slick and Bec Noir. They are two distinct instances of the same individual with no connection beyond being identical as infants, and having nascent superpowers. Obviously some of their personalities are similar, but they've still got distinct differences. Grandma English and Jade in particular are very different.
All of the worlds in-play are actually Earth, at different points in the sun's lifespan.
Earth is obviously Earth, of course. Yellow sun and human beings. The cherub planet is most likely <i>also</i> Earth, when the sun is dying in the far future. Because the Statues of Liberty are a horrible movie reference. Thanks a lot, Dave. Alternia's second moon is known to not be an original feature of the planet. Alternia is Earth in between the humans and the cherubim, when the sun is changing color and swelling, but still strong and vital.
This also thematically matches the romance spectrum, where the trolls with all four quadrants are in-between the humans, who only have red, and the cherubim, who only have black.
- Jossed: The sun expanding to a red giant will actually destroy the earth. The Cherubs will have to live on Mars if they live in a human universe at all.
The current session will end because the Tumor detonates.
A.) The Condesce uses it because either Dirk and Roxy didn't prototype their kernelsprites, so she used it to beat Prospit.
B.) Either LE or TC uses it to beat the other.
Both scenarios could end the session.
- Uh, the Post-Scratch session doesn't HAVE a Tumor. That was the whole point.
- Well it would've had if the Battlefield didn't go and blow up.
- No it wouldn'tve. The session was preordained to be a Void Session. There's no indication they would have a Tumor, even if the Battlefield had remained intact. There's no indication Tumors are an ordinary part of a normal Null Sessions either for that matter. Hussie's comments about the peculiarity of the Beta Human Session seems to indicate Tumors are abnormal.
- Moreover, the Post-Scratch Session is destined to succeed due to the involvement of the Pre-Scratch Kids. The Tumor, even if it WASN'T an abnormality, would only show up in an impossible-to-win session, since it takes the place of the 'infinite creative potential' inside Skaia.
Equius, Nepeta, Eridan, and Feferi will become God Tier...
By Gamzee putting them on the Alpha Kids quest beds, considering they are also Void/Heart/Hope/Life.
- Doesn't work that way. Trolls don't sleep on beds after all, and those beds don't correspond to their dreamselves (who are deceased anyways).
Anyone who's not God Tier cannot enter the universe they create.
Vriska was, at the time, the only God Tier troll, so Skaia sent Jack Noir their way to ensure they couldn't enter their new universe. That Karkat talks about his plan to be a "god" in the new universe may back this up. Relatedly, all the post-Scratch kids will end up either God Tier or dead, with the most likely outcomes being "all dead" or "all dead except Jane".
- Jossed by the language used about the new universes by Hussie. Andrew has referred to players as nascent demigods who end up shaping a universe. The God Tiers are just that, more extreme power and more direct godly parallels, but not strictly speaking a necessary part of the game. Besides, Karkat clearly was capable of opening a door.
The Kids are actually from the Alpha Universe
Remember when Scratch said Sburb players can be spawned outside of their own session? That's what's happening
. So the ecto-kids John created went to the Alpha universe, and the ecto kids they
will presumably create will go back to the Beta universe. If we assume that the kid/guardian relationship are totally reversed, then John, Rose, Dave and Jade could very well be paradox clones of their own alternate universe selves, and their guardians are their own ectobiological children. Which just makes things even weirder. Skaia knows how this affects the bunny.
- Which means that the meteors from the Beta!Reckoning went to Alpha!Earth and vice versa?
- Jossed. The meteors from the Beta!Reckoning went to both Earths (it's Homestuck, what do you expect?). There won't be an Alpha!Reckoning.
Jake is a ghost.
appeared following the deaths of Jane and Roxy's real selves. While Jake's dreamself is dead, their dreamselves are still alive but unconscious. Perhaps the lanterns track real selves as opposed to dream selves? And since Jake's was already blown out...
- Umm... what, their dreamselves probably died as well from delayed damage.
- Yea, Dream Selves die if the real body isn't kissed by another player in time. Since Dirk and Jake are unconscious and several magnitudes removed from Jane and Roxy...WELP.
- It's been made pretty clear by this point that Jane's Dreamself isn't going to die any time soon- being caught in a stabbing and an explosion wasn't enough to do her in. As for Roxy's, she's in good hands.
- Jossed with direct meet up.
Dirk and Roxy will become their own parents.
Just to clarify, obviously their parents also exist in their own right. But at the end of the most recent flash, all four kids are on Jake's island in Jake's present; Jane has technically entered the session, but the others haven't, and while all of them have at least had the requisite devices placed and Jake's entry would be a natural thing to be part of the end-of-act flash, Dirk and Roxy presumably need to be back in the future. They could simply time-travel back to their natural time period or something, but they could also travel partway down The Slow Path
. Perhaps it's really them who fought Guy Fieri and the Insane Clown Posse and their subsequent "disappearances" were them making their way back to their own present, older, wiser and with a ton of levels? Weird and wholly implausible theory, I know.
- Jossed for a pretty simple reason: Strider and Lalonde don't look like Dirk and Roxy, and we already know guests can be transported to the medium during an entry, like Dad or the other guardians.
The Felt exist in the Alpha Session.
A corollary to the Doc Scratch theory above. Presumably, he and The Felt are a package deal.
- On the other hand, there's no Midnight Crew.
- We haven't even been to the Alpha Session yet (only its Earth), and considering the Crew have equivalents in the Beta Kids' Session, it's reasonable to think they're integral parts of the game.
- But there is no Midnight Crew on the post-reckoning planet. Of course the agents exist, but the Crew itself and seemingly the Felt were one-off deals thus far.
- Unless they have gills, Jossed. The principle however was well thought out; it simply seems to be that because the Condesce shaped Alpha Earth and not Doc Scratch, there are her Imperial Drones instead of the Felt.
- Not quite Jossed. Maybe they're pirates instead of gangsters; Lord English has a peg leg, after all. Plus, Hussie has said he might show how the Felt became the Felt, suggesting some sort of appearance. And Clover is ambiguously alive.
- Dirk's exposition about Future Earth does not include them. It would also run counter to the Condesce's fear of Lord English, so it's pretty much confirmed at this point that they're not on Alpha Earth.
In the chaos of Sburb, Jane will lose most of her cool Betty Crocker equipment.
At first, she will be upset about this, but it will lead to her being freed from her brainwashing (and she'll be able to alchemize much cooler stuff, anyway).
- She's well on the way to it already, her computer having blown up.
- Jossed: There's actually no chaos in a Void Session; Jane hasn't even fought an Imp yet.
Jane will bring Jake's dreamself back to life.
She is a player of Life and her initials are JC... Other than that, I got nothing...
- Nothing is said about the green lantern being re-lit in the prophecy in Myststuck, so this is probably Jossed.
The Alphas are going to die in the exact order they were killed in the Beta session.
First Jake (Grandpa), then Jane (Nanna), then D (Bro), then R (Mom), and somewhere around R's, Dad. We've already seen Jake's Dreamself get killed, and if it's actually what we think it is then maybe Jane's in for, too. We'll just have to see how this whole scenario plays out, though...
- Course, we have no idea when Grandpa Harley died exactly. Jade was at the very least able to read and speak by the time he died, and unless she was able to do that at under 4 months of age (the window between her arrival and John's)...
- Alternatively, it could be the same order the Beta kids died. The first to die was Jade's dreamself, prior to John's waking self being killed by Jack and unleashing his god tier resurrection. Jake's dreamself died followed by Jane's waking self being blown up. That would mean the next kill would be R Lalonde (awake, possibly with Jane's dreamself dying just prior or simultaneously, if we count Bec Noir sucker-stabbing John), then D Strider (awake), then Jake's waking self, followed by R and D's dreamselves...
- Looking to be more likely: Jane's dreamself was the third to die- sucker-stabbed by Jack Noir, just like John's.
- Jane's dreamself a) was second to be attacked and b) seemingly didn't die.
- Myststuck confirms that Roxy and Dirk's dreamselves will eventually die, but Jane's probably won't, and if she does it'll be after the other two.
- Ergo Jossed.
The Kids and Trolls will arrive in the Alpha Session on April 13, 2012 . . .
. . . three years after the start of Homestuck.
The Beta Kids will arrive in the alpha session on 4/13/12.
It is going to take the kids three years to get to the alpha session and on 4/13/12 Homestuck will celebrate its third year anniversary.
- Both of these are unlikely barring a time skip... aaaaaand Jossed.
The Beta Kids and the trolls will all but replace the Alpha Kids.
Consider: Jack Noir got to Prospit with little known trouble and killed both Prospit heroes. It's relatively safe to say he already killed the Derse dreamers before he went over to Prospit. One of the Alpha kids is very likely to be properly dead, because of exploding mailbox, and the other three are in for a difficult game because they won't have the extra life afforded by having a dreamself, and possibly can't ascend to the God Tiers. Some time after meeting the Beta kids and doing the things seen in EOA6I1, the Alpha kids are pretty much doomed.
On the other hand, there are eight
replacement players on their way, of which at least four
are already God Tier, including four planets and a second battlefield. To them, it'd be like a New Game+
! Alpha Jack wouldn't know what hit him, leaving only Bec Noir to deal with.
- As a note, I would say that he has not already killed the Derse dreamers. Upon killing Dream-Jane, the narration said 'Two down, two to go.'
- Pretty much Jossed.
Jane's death will have similar trappings to Doctor Who.
The Doctor's already sprinkled throughout the series, what with friends that could control time and space, John's theme being called "Doctor"
, quotes hidden in some of the bandcamp music, a reference by John earlier to Karkat, Lord English's coat trim resembling Four's famous scarf, heck, as of now even regeneration! It should stand to reason that Jane's death might end up being a reference to the serial "The Impossible Astronaut" by being killed mid-Lifey-thing.
- None of the musical references are canonical, English's coat is actually a reference to the colors in pool, and Time and Space are far more wide spanning than just Doctor Who. Besides, Jossed as of current canon, as Jane's dreamself is still alive.
- Jossed now.
The Droll has been known to be a Minion with an F in Evil
in all three incarnations and has either made friends or attempted to make friends with the heroes before. Of course, he always remembered his allegiance to Derse in the end...but he has clearly shown misgivings with the new Dersite regime's agenda. Under their "new management
", Derse will continue to sink to lows any Derse of a normal session would never sink to, and the guilt will drive CD to helping the considerably nicer Kids defeat his former superiors.
- He's already assisted the pre-Scratch kids (knowingly or not) by destroying his session's battlefield.
- CD isn't intelligent enough to comprehend guilt. He felt somewhat bad about killing Jake's dreamself, but still is loyal to Derse. When taking Beta CD into account, the theory is pretty much Jossed.
Someone is putting Roxy to sleep
This ties in with the non-alcoholic beverages theory above. It could be because someone is experimenting. It could also be something more sinister. Although its extremely unlikely to be any of them, characters who have put other people to sleep include Vriska (to John and Jade), Aradia (to Sollux), and Doc Scratch (to Kanaya).
- Doc Scratch never put Kanaya to sleep; he was mentioned briefly to have guided her to Prospit but the manner in which that occurred is unknown. At any rate, Jossed.
The reason Dirk is such a genius is because he has two active brains.
Both his normal and dream selves are active at all times, so there's no reason to think that he couldn't think with both brains.
- Which could also explain why Beta session Bro Strider showed no interest in robots: he would have been only half as intelligent as Alpha Dirk.
- Would that mean that Dirk would no longer be a genius if his dream self died?
- Jossed: Dirk isn't a genius.
The Auto-Responder has learned about Alternian society from his conversations with Roxy, while Dirk still knows nothing about the trolls.
Primarily guessing because of this page
. In talking about Dirk's flushed interest in Jake and plans relating to such, the AR says that they are "beyond the pail" (clearly a reference to the trolls' reproductive cycle), and Dirk doesn't pick up on the reference.
The alpha kids are getting set up with some sort of reverse fairy-god-troll thing
Jake has the Unknown Troll Girl, Roxy has the Other Unknown Troll Girl Who Looks Kind Of Like Feferi, and at this rate Dick and Jane will have Mystery Troll Boys within the fortnight.
- Jossed: It's just the two troll girls; though one could argue uu and UU correspond to Dirk and Jane respectively, the patron troll shenanigans still don't work because Aranea and UU are talking to everyone and Meenah has no real connection to Roxy besides wanting to hunt her.
Jake will enter the Alpha Session as the Condesce floods Earth.
Jane's countdown wasn't actually counting towards a meteor, but simply the arrival of the Condesce to Alpha Earth - an indirectly cataclysmic event in it's own right. It can be assumed that Jake's countdown will be similar, because the Condesce will at some point entirely flood Earth to match Roxy & Dirk's future. While Jane: Enter shows the volcano on Jake's island to be almost completely submerged and no longer having lava flow from the top, a panel in the EOA6I1 shows it's going to fully erupt at some point.
- Rose's exposition was accompanied by a panel that showed the Condesce's invasion wasn't complete until around 2030. Seemingly Jossed.
- By my ruler, the change in color after 2000 is about 15% of the length of the 1900-2000, which puts it closer to 11.11.11 than to 2030. It's still quite possible, being that I doubt AH expected anyone to be anal enough to take a ruler to the screen.
- It looked farther than Poppop and Grandma's landings in 1910, which is what prompted the "Not 2011". Remains to be seen at any rate.
- The arrival of Alpha John and Jade is about 32 pixels away from 1900. The timeline turning red is about 38 pixels away from 2000. So probably a few years later, but before the end of the decade.
- Jossed: Dirk's exposition revealed the flooding of the Earth was a gradual thing.
The Alpha session Exiles will be from the past, not the future. Or they will be from another planet entirely
This Session is screwed up already. Might as well make it more confusing.
- No they're from the Session per normal rules though they aren't exiles. Jossed.
Some humans escaped the Condesce's invasion of Earth through some sort of ark
Not only would this be a Biblical reference, it would also be a reference to the White Ship of MOTHER 3
. This troper is betting on a free colony of humans hidden somewhere on Mars.
- Isn't that more likely how the Exiles ended up on Earth?
- Jossed by Dirk.
There will be post-entry protoypings, and they will reflect the B1 Kids sprites except for Roxy
No-one said an empty kernel can't be prototyped after entry. Jane will probably self-prototype in some fashion, mimicking both Nannasprite and Jadesprite. Meanwhile, Jake will prototype an urn containing ashes of his dead grandmother and her dog Harley (as John is the stuffed corpse, its logical to assume Jade is the one cremated). The result is the ghost of Jake's grandma as a dog - again reflecting Nannasprite and Jadesprite. Dirk will definitely prototype the AR as Dirksprite, there's just too much Foreshadowing
of that, and his Myth Arc
is about a divided self. Finally, Roxy will be the combo-breaker - hers is the only text color that doesn't match a B1 Kid's sprite. This troper is guessing she'll prototype her Dream Self after entry, and then it will be prototyped with Mutie, or maybe even GCat. This will then affect her appearence when/if she goes God Tier.
As for why Roxy and Dirk won't try and revive their parents...
- Jossed: Tavris didn't remotely reflect anything about Nannasprite.
The Batterwitch was responsible for setting the kids up to meet each other
They had to meet somehow, and since they live in different time frames there's no way it could have happened naturally. If I recall correctly, the Beta kids met up due to John's package being sent to Jade in the past (I can't remember why that happened, I think it was exiles maybe?), but the alpha session is so broken that even if that happened, Jake never would have been able to find Dirk or Roxy.
- Dirk and Roxy already have access to technology that warps space. It's not much of a stretch for them to have technology that warps time too, at least in the sense that Trollian does. Moreover, UU was in contact with all of them, and may have helped Dirk and Roxy get in contact with Jake and Jane. Jake also accidentally managed to come in contact with Jade, so it's also possible he simply accidentally contacted the others.
- I somehow doubt UU would connect them up, because of her not wanting to reveal spoilers. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dirk and Roxy had the tech to communicate backwards in time lying around their houses, but I get the feeling that the Batterwitch is manipulating a whole lot of what's going on.
- Rose suggests they have some sort of Trollian-esque client.
- Yeah, I understand that they have the technology to communicate with each other, but then they also would have the tech to communicate with any of the other eight billion people on the planet, or heck, they could probably talk to people even further in the past. The question is how they met two random kids from four thousand years in the past.
- How did John and Jade meet on the internet with thousands of people around? Oh right, because the plot needs that to happen. Besides there's historical interest for Dirk to have tried to get in contact with the heiress of the Empress's pre-invasion empire.
- Also because Jade sent to herself in the past John's present causing her to try to contact him.
- Jossed: Dirk said UU organized it, however he and Roxy both did have historical interest in contacting Jake and Jane specifically as the son of Grandma English and the Heiress to the Crockercorp Empire.
- We don't know if the Batterwitch could have influenced UU.
- It's pretty evident as of now she couldn'tve.
Poppop Crocker, Mom Lalonde (B2 Rose) and Bro Strider (B2 Dave) are all in the Medium
Hey, it happened to Grandpa. Poppop might have actually faked his death and left behind a fake corpse - the ultimate prank. Meanwhile, Bro and Mom entered the Medium to escape the invasion. Unlike the B1 Guardians, who were separated from their children when they entered the sessions, the B2 Guardians will find their children and there will be tearful reunions...or more precisely meetings. It's not like UU said Roxy's mother and daughter were the same person...even though they sort of are.
- UU's words pretty clearly applied to Roxy meeting Rose.
- Alternately, they've lost access to their guardians' corpses in the intervening 400 years of global flooding and antagonism by the Batterwitch who had them killed in the first place.
- Judging by the timeline in A 6 I 2, Roxy and Dirk almost certainly never knew their versions of Mom or Bro.
- Jossed: They died fighting the Condesce. Crocker might however be in the Medium with shenanigans.
- There are other theories that Mom and Bro survived somehow.
The Alpha session lotus time capsule thing goes backwards instead of forwards
If it goes forwards, it would drop most of the stuff out when it's all flooded. Instead, it goes backwards, so everything comes out in the past (but not many). So Jake goes through the capsule, goes back in time, and probably ends up finding out what happened to grandma and his house. Then one of the other characters in the future (Dirk?) would probably have to get a copy of SBURB into the capsule to get it to Jake, paralleling Jade getting Dave's copy. It would also explain partially why Jake needs to go into the frog temple at this exact time, and in the EOA6A2 flash, he was going down the elevator that goes to the time capsule. This would also make sense with the exiles being possibly in the past instead of the future.
When the beta kids arrive in the alpha session, they won't arrive at the same time with respect to earth (time is complicated!)
Specifically, Dave, Rose, gC, cG, gA, tC, and WV will arrive in 2011 with Jake and Jane, and John and Jade will arrive in 2424, or whatever year it is, with Dirk and Roxy. This keeps the same sets of four, kind of, with half switched out for the other session's equivalent. John and Jade will probably arrive through one of Roxy's fenestrated planes. Dave and Rose were recently implying that they don't have any brakes on the meteor without Sollux, so all they can do is sail through the Alpha medium, crash into Skaia, and then Skaia sends them to go crash on something that needs crashing on, I don't know what. Maybe Jake's house? I guess it could go the other way, and John and Jade end up coming through the fenestrated plane that may or may not be the mystery object in Jake's inventory and Dave and Rose get to be a meteor that smashes into Dirk's or Roxy's houses, but they're already needing to leave fast to escape the Batterwitch.
- The Kids aren't planning on going to Earth at all. While they can't exactly stop the meteor, there's nothing stopping the Kids and Trolls from jumping off it, and John and Jade have been heavily suggested to crash through a wall related to Jake. Roxy's portals are distinctly different than the fenestrated walls used by Jack and by proxy, Andrew and the Harleys, as they are linked to one location (The Furthest Ring), while the fenestrated walls can switch their viewpoint and link to another universe entirely. It seems that if anyone is going to Earth, it'll be John and Jade's group, and that's not even a sure thing.
- Okay, so John and Jade come in through Jake's window, when he's probably still on Earth because he's probably entering last still. And then if Rose Seer-of-Light's that she and Dave should stay on the meteor and go through the Skaian defense portal and end up on Earth, I'd guess he'd probably listen. Not sure if all of the trolls would, but Dave probably. I'm not saying that this is the most likely thing to happen (putting the 'W' in WMG), but it's within the realm of possibility, doesn't contradict anything (I think), and explains (partially) why the Alpha kids would be stuck in two different time periods. Also because the Beta kids haven't actually seemed to have made any plans of how to meet up again.
- Jade's got to place planets around somewhere and Dave has time powers. Seems to me that if the Beta Lands are there, then Dave can just do his time thing and find Jade and John pretty easily! Part of the problem with Dave and Rose entering via a meteor though is that they would have to fly down from the meteor, meet Dirk or Roxy, and enter that way, because Dirk and Roxy live very far apart with no (known anyways) landmarks to guide Rose and Dave from one place to the other, and Rose's Light powers might not grant enough guidance. Granted, Bro flew to meet Dave's meteor, but he's Bro.
- Finally 'Jossed: Red Miles are beginning to appear above Future Earth, indicating it will be destroyed shortly.
Even without the Reckoning, Alpha Earth is still doomed.
Jade openeda .ATH program that made her computer explode. Karkat earlier opened a .ATH program that did the same. Presumably, it is the same program, which means that the next step will soon follow. On Alternia, it killed off all of the Lususes. On Earth it would either kill off all of the parents
(since the lususes are the guardians of young trolls) or kill off all of the animals (because the lususes can be any species except for troll). Either way, Earth is doomed, and the kids still need to Ascend.
- Jossed via a misunderstanding of Act 6. The ~ATH program is not the same as Sollux's, curses have been revealed to be the will of Paradox Space, and Dirk and Roxy aren't even threatened by the same threat as Jane or Jake. Jake for one is threatened apparently by a volcanic eruption, while Dirk and Roxy presumably will need to enter because of increasing attacks from the Empress.
- And Dirk's exposition directly jossed this one.
- The WMG itself is flawed, but due to Red Miles appearing above Future Earth, it is in fact doomed.
As a result, the Alpha kids will have trouble climbing their echeladder.
Being devoid of life not only means no salamanders, but no imps. This isn't that much of a problem for Jake, who's been shown to have climbed his echeladder quite a bit by getting his ass repeatedly whooped by Dirk's robot, or Dirk or Roxy, who presumably have experience fighting Crocker's forces, but it could be a problem for Jane, who may find herself hoping the Beta worlds aren't too devoid of low-level imps or too heavy in high-level ones.
- Not necessarily. Certain steps of the quest will make-do for echeladder growth. The series of tombs on each planet should provide enough environmental puzzles and challenges to suffice, and actually might work out better for some (especially Jane, who has no known combat experience, and would likely just let Lil' Sebastian fight instead- receiving no credit as she doesn't have the Bunnykind strife specibus).
- What just hit me is that when Jade entered, she was the weakest member of the group; in contrast, when Jake enters, he will probably initially be the second strongest, and would likely climb his echeladder the fastest in this manner due to his love of tombs.
- Jossed. Remember John and Tavros have been shown to gain experience outside of combat, Tavros getting it from puzzles apparently.
The moment the Pre-Scratch Summoner would appear...
...Is when Dante finally reaches Rufio: Make him pay
- "Jossed" if his sillhouette counts, but it did coincide with Dante releasing an audio clip of him reading Dave.
- And now Dante has reached that point, and there's no sign of any further appearance of him...
Meenah will eventually use her Thief of Life powers to bring herself and/or the other Pre-Scratch trolls (or at least Aranea) back to life and then they will attempt to defeat Lord English
It's said that Lord English can only be destroyed through a number of time-based glitches and loopholes. What's a bigger glitch/loophole than twelve trolls, whose timeline has been eliminated from the face of existence, coming back to life? In fact that might even be the reason why Meenah attacked Roxy in the first place, she was going to steal Roxy's life so that she could use it to help revive the others! Or at least revive Aranea if there are no others.
- Jossed via misunderstand. That doesn't fit in with the role of a Thief; that's much more in line with a Rogue of Life than anything else. However, Meenah as the Thief of Life has both the literal interpretation of her title, that she's a murderer and ruined the lives of the others with sburb, or a more metaphorical take, in that her alternate as the Condesce basically distorted Alternia to the point where virtually all the other Ancestors were completely miserable, save herself.
The pre-Scratch Ancestors escaped the Scratch
I know, this doesn't make any sense, right? They're all quite clearly dead.
Doc Scratch says this about the A1 Scratch: "This reset would come at the cost of wiping the failed heroes from existence."
But then Aranea says something slightly different: "the choice to do so came with accepting the annihilation of our existing forms"
Almost similar, but not quite. It's implied that Ancestors are in dream bubbles because Meenah killed them all before the Scratch erased them. If so, "existing forms" could translate to "existing bodies". In other words, the price of the Scratch was to erase the bodies of the pre-Scratch Ancestors from existence.
And this is totally different from just erasing the A1 trolls. Why?
No-one said those bodies had to belong to the alpha timeline.
So according to this WMG, the Ancestors had their doomed timeline selves start the Scratch for them. But why hasn't Doc Scratch, Aranea or even UU indicated anything about this? In a word, Void.
It's already established that Void blocks out Doc Scratch omniscience. But UU takes it a step further and says Void can destroy
knowledge. Which seems to indicate some form of altering memories. Depending on pre-Scratch Darkleer's abilities, he could have blacked out the entire session and erased the memories of their doomed timeline counterparts, making them think they were from the alpha timeline. In other words, they pranked Doc Scratch
. And he still wouldn't be lying about his earlier statement, because doomed timeline players are failed heroes, after a fashion.
How did the alpha timeline trolls physically leave their session then? This is where Roxy's dream self and The Great Flood
references come into play. The B2 kids somehow create an Ark
for the A1 session, which Roxy sends through the void using her Message In A Bottle Modus. They could probably also send Jake's size changers (the ones Liv Tyler has) so they could grow/shrink the Ark, and maybe other things too. Like their planets. And then they blast off for eithier the Furthest Ring or another Yellow Yard that Hussie set up in secret. This will make them a Spanner in the Works
for Lord English's ambiguously defined plans.
Speaking of Hussie, this troper guesses the Hussie that died was also a doomed timeline self, and the real Hussie is hiding out in a secret base somewhere, explaining why he can still narrate even though he's dead (Dream Bubbles are not the Fourth Wall). A revelation like this is just the sort of thing Hussie would parody with a fourth wall breaking segment.
Convoluted and complicated? Yes. But this is Homestuck.
- First and largest problem: it was Meenah's plan specifically that saved them from utter destruction. While what exactly the Life aspect does is still ambiguous, and it may very well cover the use of alternate selves, the fact remains that Meenah's plan couldn't invoke the use of the Hero of Void, especially given Aranea says nobody liked Meenah at all.
- Secondly, the Aranea we see is God Tiered. A God Tiered player tricked into being a sacrifice with implanted memories probably wouldn't even qualify as Heroic or Just, whereas the implication otherwise is that Aranea died in a Heroic Sacrifice against Meenah.
- Thirdly, without a God Tiered Seer of Light, there's virtually no way they could have navigated to the Alpha Session anyways; a Slyph's domain doesn't cover that and we have no idea who the Seer of the session was, if there even was one. Even Terezi's abilities weren't even enough to navigate the Furthest Ring, Rose's specific abilities were uniquely suited to the task
- Fourthly, there's far too much extrapolation here. The Alpha Kids don't even know who the Pre-Scratch Trolls are, and given Meenah attempted to murder Roxy might not even care if they die! There's no indication that Void powers can alter memories, and there's no way without the influence of the Handmaid's duplicate that the doomed timeline doubles could be part of the plan. Not to mention there's no sign of Trolls anywhere in the Alpha Sessions mythology and all signs point to them dying at some point; there's already room enough for them to be a Spanner in the Works without introducing a convoluted plot to save 12 characters that haven't even been shown!
- Lastly, the Green Sun's ignition and flash came only a fair amount of time after the Trolls completed their session; given the dire straits the Pre-Scratch Session was in (seemingly identical to those of the Beta Human Session), they wouldn't have had time to see the flash and know where to go.
- Going with Jossed for a writing reason: Andrew is culiminating a variety of arcs and the story is winding down now, despite evidence to the contrary. Not many characters have been introduced completely new at this stage; only UU and uu are completely new to Act 6, and even they are reflections of Karkat. With all the plot threads Andrew is busy tying closed, it's extremely unlikely that he will introduce 12 largely new characters (as the theory relies on the fact that they are different from the Aranea and Meenah we saw) and save them, especially when the prophecy about the total deaths of all the original 12 trolls is taken into account. The theory hinges on an interpretation that Aranea and Doc didn't say the same thing, which is total YMMV. Aranea's comments are the same as Doc's when you consider she probably meant "current forms" as in their iterations as players. From there, the theory dances on so many loose connections that it's impossible to put any weight on it.
- Meanwhile, Meenah apparently killed everyone using her session's Tumor.
a purple-red fish.
- Already Jossed. If nothing else, she's providing characterization on the Condesce.
- I didn't say what she'd be a Red Herring for, merely that she would be one.
- That doesn't mean anything. A Red Herring is at heart an intentionally misleading character, and with Meenah's successful plan to save the Pre-Scratch Trolls and providing characterization on the Condesce, she cannot be a Red Herring. Also purple-red has a name, it's Fuchsia.
Meenah killed herself in order not to cease to exist, due to the Scratch.
Aranea just happened to die previously on their adventure.
- There's no indication death via Scratch is in any way different from death any other way.
- Now that you bring it up, does scratching count as dooming the timeline? The Babies/Grubs being sent in reverse order and all.
- No because it was predestined. See such plot events as Jake and Jade being in contact, etc.
- Close, though the WMG is probably Jossed as it seems Meenah killed everyone, Aranea included.
All of the dead trolls will be effectively opposites of their Post-Scratch counterparts.
As mentioned above, the dead trolls presented thus far are Face Heel Reversals of their counterparts- Meenah is less caring and more violent than Feferi was while Aranea is more sympathetic than the sadistic Vriska. It could be a theme amongst the rest of them, once introduced!
- Given what we know of some of the other troll ancestors, this has some weight: The Sufferer crusaded for peace while Karkat is perpetually angry, The Summoner led rebellions while Tavros lacks confidence, The Executor questioned the supremacy of highbloods while Equius believes wholeheartedly in it, The Handmaid is rebellious towards Doc Scratch and Lord English while Aradia serves the spirits she hears without question... It is, however, a far more difficult case for other ancestors.
- Only the problem is that Ancestors are one-dimensional stereotypes while players are much more complicated. Compare the Alpha Kids to their counterparts as Beta Guardians, or the Beta Kids. Roxy and Rose in particular are strongly opposed, but even then they're not one-dimensionally the exact opposite of each other. Remember too the Sufferer's cool broke over into rage, while Karkat's rage is always tempered by his true kindness, the Summoner's rebellion ended in failure, like Tavros's, the Executor lamented his decision the rest of his life, while Equius's whole hearted devotion to the blood caste system led directly to his death, and the Handmaid was groomed to be nothing but a slave, while Aradia willingly learned to serve. Exact opposites, no. Overlapping highly, absolutely!
- Even comparing Meenah & Feferi, they aren't exact opposites. Feferi could be pretty callous and didn't exactly let down Eridan the easiest she could, and Meenah at the very least is very outgoing and energetic. One's Ax-Crazy and the other is a Genki Girl who happens to be a Nightmare Fuel Station Attendant. Also on Pre-Scratch Alternia, the Vast Glub could never be used as a threat to cull entire castes, eliminating one of the tentpoles of the Condesce's empire, and possibly the only thing keeping her from being overthrown.
- And outright Jossed by Aranea's characterization.
On Alternia, UU is the chumhandle for all NPCs.
We've already seen two uus- one uppercase, one lowercase. It could be a possibility that on Alternia, all Npcs on the planet, instead of having a theme to their names, would have the generic title of uu, much like in a conventional RPG how an NPC was given the generic name of "Citizen" or "somethingorother 1/2/etc".
- Rendered irrelevant by later revelations.
uu and UU aren't from a pre-scratch session
Judging by the latest flash, troll society returns in the Alpha Session's future Earth. They might be from this future Earth and are communicating with the Alpha kids via time shenanigans as opposed to being from a different universe. It might also explain UU's knowledge of human society. It's not another universe to her, it's history!
- Her knowledge of Sburb and the depth of that knowledge seems to suggest that isn't the case, as does the fact that UU refers to many many sessions that have come and gone. UU also told Jane she was from another universe. We also don't know that the buildings are inhabited or not; after all, the Condesce would have a pretty hard time establishing troll society given all the tribulations and trials it entails even for Kanaya who has a matriorb. However, it would fit into a neat sense of symmetry, and is well within the scope of possibility.
- Given that UU's tome of knowledge is heavily suggested to be Rose and Kanaya's journal, it's highly possible.
- Possibly Jossed by Dirk's confirmed that no trolls are on Alpha Earth.
- In his own time. That says nothing about their future, especially if this is related to Kanaya's recreated matriorb.
- That assumes his earth has a future.
- Not quite Jossed, but most of the supporting evidence on both sides is irrelevant.
- Yes her info comes from Kanaya and Rose's Book, so the premises are false, and as such, Jossed.
UU and uu are the Mirthful Messiahs
So until uu was introduced, I was convinced the cycle of universes Hussie was showing was Alpha!Trolls—>scratch—>Beta!Trolls—>Beta!Kids—>scratch—>Alpha!Kids—>Alpha!Trolls etc. But then these two and their two-player session throw a wrench in. But if you successfully create a universe you become its gods ... so what if they created the Alpha!Troll universe? And became its gods?
- Jossed. Word of God is that A) The Alpha Troll session was created by a 48 player session of unknown species and B) Doc Scratch and Lord English are the Mirthful Messiahs.
- (A) was an obvious joke and part of his Running Gag about doing an act about a 48 player Squiddle session in response to whining about how long Hivebent took the plot away from the kids.
- A is canon. Karkat has alluded to this being the case with references to the Troll Zodiac having 48 symbols. Only the fact that they're Squiddles is a joke, and that may not even be the case!
- Hussie said that Lord English and Doc Scratch were the one's perceived as the Mirthful Messiahs, so if one is Lord English...
- Nevertheless, they're not the Troll's mirthful messiahs. Certainly seem to calling back to them.
Bro's glasses actually have an Auto Responder in them...
- We probably will never know.
- Doubtful, though, considering that Bro doesn't show any signs of possessing future tech beyond his rocket board.
- And Dirk himself outright says much of his tech isn't really anything he made but just stuff that exists in the future.
Mr. Crocker remembers the Beta World.
He, out of all the guardians, has not changed. This makes him stand out; If he was the only one without a change, this likely could mean that he still retains the old memories he had from the Beta World. Unfortunately, this would involve a bit of Fridge Horror
, as the recent watching of Jane's "Mailsplosion" would bring back unknown, painful memories of a similar incident somewhere in his past.
Plus, it'd give a whole new reason behind his name being Mr. Crocker
: Nobody but him knows about the Old Universe. Nobody'd believe him, either.
- Remembering the Beta universe would invite unavoidable comparisons to the Signless/Sufferer, except Dad was not ectobiologically created, and Hussie likes to extend these metaphors as far as they can go.
- Probably not; he's actually not even genetically similar to Mr. Egbert and they're completely separate entities who just happen to be similar. Besides, he's not a player and the Sufferer was unique. Also Hussie probably isn't aware of The Fairly OddParents as he was already an adult during the timespan it aired.
All the exiles were implemented as solutions to the game, with failsafes against each other.
The white army was destined to lose, but the eight exiles were designed to be exploited by the players to win the game themselves. This doesn't include WK, who wasn't intended to survive, but does include SS, DD, CD and HB. The Warweary Villein worked too well, and would've made the game too easy by deposing the Black King before all prototypings were complete, if Jack Noir hadn't worked too well and made it near unbeatable by Queening himself
. But the game hasn't been broken yet — the exiles can still foil each other, as intended. However, the involvement of Doc Scratch and the Horrorterrors were not intended, and can permanently break the game.
- The Crew and the Exiles don't even know the other exists, nor should they. Doc and the Horrorterrors are also another faction in the game; Doc created the conditions necessary for the game to be played and the Horrorterrors are trying to make the session fail. However, the bits about Jack and WV are correct; Jack Noir's normal function in the game is a process that allows players to despose the Black Queen. Likewise, WV's normal role seems to be the same towards the Black King, but is much harder to fufill because the players reach Skaia fairly late in the game, by which point he's probably already dead. All in all this WMG makes no sense to me, it's comparing exiles across sessions which makes no sense. Spades Slick is not Bec Noir, and Bec Noir never gets exiled.
- The Crew technically are Exiles of the trolls' session. None of them have to know about their analogues in other sessions to be programmed the same, thus comparisons between them are natural. What you're saying about JN and WV is already confirmed, but I'm further suggesting that the other Exiles may have their own but similar roles that circumstance simply didn't reveal in these sessions. But the WK and WQ were intended to be removed from play one way or another, which they have been, and won't have more than a peripheral support role.
- Neither Doc nor the Horrorterrors were built into the game; in a sense Doc is a hacker who has a backdoor into the game because he influenced it's inception (being omniscient helps.) The Horrorterrors are also outside the game in the same way they're outside the universe; they've only become a faction by intruding on the game, probably because their space provides the network for the client/server loops and interdimensional communication to be possible.
- The Horrorterrors are the faction that controls Derse. Think of it like this, in a chess game, the King and Queen aren't the players, they're just pieces. In Sburb, Skaia plays Prospit and the Elder Gods play Derse. Every session is a bargain between them and the cycle of destruction and renewal of universes. Doc creates the circumstances necessary for the game to be played and thus his own creation; Bec may have done something similar by leading Harley to the ruins. At any rate, they are part of the game.
- That Doc is created in the game that he created could just as easily be a side effect of entering the game; everyone who plays will be paradoxically created within it. And the Horrorterrors don't seem to have any interest in ruling Derse, though they can exert influence that natives and dreamers may take or leave, but it's not nearly a compulsion. Only when their own were being slain did they care to communicate with someone they hoped could save them, and then they incidentally became an unignorable factions in the game. But they aren't within it and aren't a design element of it. Both Doc and the Horrorterrors are hackers who have insinuated themselves for their own purposes.
- Using the term 'Exile' was meant to be a convenience rather than a confusion, so let me clarify them: SS, DD, CD, HB, WV, PM, AR of either session. If you can think of a better term to define this grouping, please tell.
- Back to the original idea, I think that at least AR and PM are not very important, AR especially. They may have had some function in game, but it's impossible to say for certain. PM and AR in the kids actual session did very little (although we have yet to see how PM gets exiled) and it seems to me to be a safe bet that they were simply generic NPC's that got caught up in the game. Secondly, there's nothing to say that WQ and WK are useless because they were fated to die; in fact WQ is by far the most useful exile shown yet, aside from Snowman. The Derse agents, certainly are part of the game. WV as well, but again, it doesn't seem like AR and PM had any normal function. Mail simply happened to be a facet of the kid's session, while it wasn't part of the Trolls (for instance, even Tavros's land doesn't seem to have the obsession with mail in the same way). PM and AR in that sense might be "unique" NPCs which possibly are generated seperately, similarly to how every land shown is unique. PM may have for instance been part of John's journey across Lo Wa S in a normal session.
- After Cascade, you may want to look over the unimportance of PM again.
- The discussion wasn't about PM after exiling but PM in the game. The thing is WV is in every session, and is a backdoor way to defeat the Black King, whereas PM has only been seen in one session and was a simple mail lady before the unusual circumstances of the Kid's session propelled her into becoming what she is now.
- Where is it ever said that WV is in every session? I don't recall seeing it anywhere in canon, unless it's a Formspring.
- It was a Formspring answer.
- Eventually shown in Act 6 is that AR is merely another type of pawn. PM is likely similar. With that in mind, it seems conclusive that the Agents of Derse and WV are in every session and may be failsafes against each other, but PM and AR are not, and simply happened to be exiles in the Kid's session.
WV is the ultimate Big Bad
in Act 6
With the Scratch and the kids fleeing the wreckage of their universe, Exile Town and the other four Exiles will die. WV is the only one with a chance of surviving, and he pursues them into their new session. Unlike Jack, he isn't depowered by the destruction of the Green Sun because he still has the Uranium in his belly, so he'll go on an entirely justified
attack on the Kids and Trolls.
- Jossed on multiple levels, but PM may continue some of that.
- The Big Bad of Act 6 is the Condesce. Though PM may attack the Kids, it's unlikely at this point.
The leg stump is visibly bleeding, so Lord English may not be so invincible after all.
- Jossed. Hussie has said his one weakness is apparently Doc Scratch's gun.
When uuUU changes personalities, their skin changes color.
Calliope and uu appear to share a body, but they have different blood colors. This suggests that when they switch, their body's blood changes color from lime green to red. Trolls' gray skin completely conceals their blood colors, but cherubs may be different, especially since Calliope has lime green blood and dark green skin. Furthermore, uu's picture◊
seems to depict him with gray skin and red cheeks.
- Jossed. uu has the same green tone as Calliope.
Cherubim don't have eyelids.
So far, Calliope's eyes seem to be fully open all of the time, even when her expression changes. And I can't even picture any eyelids that could fit over Lord English's billiard ball eyes. Plus, the lack of eyelids seems appropriate for a skull face. Chalk up yet another reason it sucks to be Calliope — that must sting
the huge object in Jake's inventory is The Tumor, a planet, the battlefield, or possibly The Green Sun.
All huge objects.
- How about Lord English's sarcophagus?
- The Cairo Overcoat/sarcophagus shouldn't be that large.
- The other fourth wall, the one Jade and John are supposed to arrive through. Remember how Jade's grew to RIDICULOUS size and got a battleship shot through it? And how UU said Jake's job was simply to "pave the way for the arrival of gods"?
- Close. The other fourth wall was inside the tower.
- The battle ship that Grandpa Harley had.
- The central tower to his home, which is missing. Note in Seer: Descend there was talk of adding orbs to a ring, but was dismissive. Jade's home looked a lot like the dream towers. The right prototyping and you could end up with a prototyping tower. Considering you can get a Matriorb from an oil covered fedora this isn't so much of a stretch. Jade's home that is missing in the Alpha Session, but clearly existed since Jake's "home" is a broken off spire from said house.
- Void Sessions cannot prototype, the Seer: Descend comment was a mere reference to the Troll session, and the tower was destroyed by explosion.
- The orb of the tower was the object in question, however, making this Confirmed.
- The Battlefield is Jossed; the Alpha Battlefield was destroyed and Jade still has the tiny Beta Battlefield.
- Jossed. It's the lab that used to be at the top of his house.
The Dead Pisces Troll (Meenah) was the Token Evil Teammate
of Pre-Scratch Alternia's Session...
...And Post-Scratch Alternia only has a caste system because she switched with Feferi.
- Keeping in mind, of course, that the Pre-Scratch session failed because the trolls were a peaceful species and that Alternia was a utopia. Meanwhile all we've seen of the Pisces troll is that she's Ax-Crazy...
- Is she really axe crazy though? Sure, she attacks Roxy, but she's portrayed along the lines of a 90s era mosh-punk, and she didn't exactly try too hard to hold her once Roxy fought back. Maybe her surprise attack was just her way of saying "hello".
- ...When was the last time you introduced yourself to someone by pulling a weapon on them? At any rate, she's confirmed to have violent intentions against Roxy, saying she wanted kill her "for the halibut".
- And that Feferi was far too peaceful and friendly on Post-Scratch Alternia, even willing to abolish the caste system entirely- the two of them must have been switched before departing!
- For what its worth, Equius says that the higher you go on the hemospectrum, the more naturally bloodthirsty and violent you are prone to be. Perhaps it was a lot harder to know how to express yourself in pre-Scratch Alternia, but the Condesence and those who share her blood color were just the grand high sociopaths of that era.
- Was thought to be confirmed untill 9/24/12 with the reveal of Kurloz Makara.
- More generally, Aranea was right: Meenah turns out to be a pretty cool chick when you get to know her (to the point she's actually trying to raise an army to fight the Big Bad), especially compared to quite a few of her teammates; even Kankri comes off as less sympathetic than her. And Damara may well be an even better candidate for token evilness, though admittedly Meenah had something to do with that.
Homestuck will end on April 26th 2013
Exactly 4 years and 13 days after it started, in the fourth month of the year 2013, fitting in the ever-recurrent 413 number theme.
- It's actually kind of doubtful that it'll go that long. Remember, Hussie originally planned to end it on the one-year anniversary, then the two-year anniversary, then "when it's done".
- Third anniversary. 14 days "late". He will insist that he did not plan it that way.
- It's August 2013, we're still far from done, and I have no idea if this has been moved here already.
> Go Back > Return to main page