Been replaying Platinum lately (technically first time, but I've played Pearl before) and I just want to throw out that I get hung up on Maylene every time I get to her. I feel like she deserves some recognition for two reasons:
- Fighting types are normally weak to Flying and Psychic types, but only her Machoke is in practice. Her Meditite is part-Psychic, neutralizing its Psychic weakness, and her Lucario is part-Steel, neutralizing ALL its Fighting type weaknesses, counterintuitively leaving it with just Steel weaknesses. It's very tricky to build a team around hers and if you just stacked your team with Flying and Psychic types, thinking they'll just steamroll her Fighting types, you'll be left without a way to deal significant damage, which is problematic given how hard her Pokemon hit.
- The actual moves her Pokemon know. In Platinum, two know Drain Punch (making outlasting them unviable) and Rock Tomb (countering your Flying types and neutral coverage for Ghosts). Her Lucario is especially problematic as Drain Punch counteracts its own fragility, Force Palm can screw you over if you get an unlucky paralysis, and Bone Rush keeps Fire types (such as your Game-Breaking Monferno) in check.
"Be woke, be cool. A calm spirit is smarter." — Goombape
Can anybody add Volo from Pokemon Legends: Arceus into the article? The one where he has Giratina?
Edited by Hassantaleb1234 Hide / Show Replies
Unless there is an argument that "PLA post-game isn't a actual post-game", Volo's final battle is not required to beat the game.
Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
I’m late, but Volo’s battle is absolutely required to finish the game—without it you cannot obtain the Azure Flute (aka the thing you need to summon Arceus) nor can you complete the Pokédex (aka the condition Arceus wanted you to achieve in order to meet it; without completing Volo’s battle, you can’t unlock Giratina or the Forces of Nature, all of whom are required for Pokédex completion). Volo is not an optional boss at all and I don’t know how anyone assumed he was.
The ‘’real’’ question, of course, is whether he qualifies as an example of this due to being a True Final Boss. I for one would definitely say he’s difficult by pokemon final boss standards but others may disagree.
A lot of people have considered BDSP Cynthia to be really difficult
- She (along with the rest of the Elite Four before her) actually take advantage of held items. - Her Roserade has Expert Belt which increases Super Effective hits, and it has Shadow Ball for those who tried to bring a Psychic type against it. - Her Milotic in particular combines Flame Orb and Marvel Scale so it's even bulkier. It also has Scald which has a higher chance of burning. - Her Garchomp might have Poison Jab instead of Flamethrower (Platinum)/Brick Break (Diamond/Pearl and Platinum Rematches) to deal with Fairy types instead of Ice types, but it has a Yache Berry in case if anyone thought they were going to take the easy path out.
Any chance we can add Greevil in here from Gale of Darkness? I know he's the final boss, but the difficulty with him is utterly absurd; all six of his Pokemon are Shadow Pokemon, they all hit like trucks, and 3 of them are Legendary Birds, which are really hard to capture.
NPC
Are Sword and Shield entries too early to add, or should I go right ahead with adding them? I can think of at least two premier examples for this trope that introduce major difficulty spikes despite the relative ease of the game.
Check out my forum game! If you so desire, of course. Hide / Show Replies
If you want to add an example, you need to bring the entry up over on the Locked Pages thread so it can be added.
If you can't find it, simply go to the Forums, then go to "Frequently Asked Questions" at the top of the subforums, then post in the Locked Pages thread, which should be at the top of the list.
Today, I noticed that a bunch of remarks concerning pokemon who have counters to their counters (worded such as "Thinking about using X? Prepare to get steamrolled by Y's Z!") were removed. The reason given was that it was going into Walkthrough Mode.
However, to me such comments aren't telling the player how to win; they're elaborating. I guess it's a little Walkthrough Mode (it could be interpreted as "Don't use those types"), but really it's more "You know how tough this boss is? This boss can wipe the floor with you even if you came prepared!"
As such, is there a better reason not to have those comments here, or did my logic make sense and justify their presence?
Edited by Yomegami Icon by Civvi the Civilian! Hide / Show Replies
Why haven’t I seen Ultra Necrozma yet? That fight is retardedly, unnecessarily difficult.
No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
Any chance that Ultra Necrozma could be added as a "That One Boss" for this page? I know there's bits and pieces that people may disagree for some bosses, but Ultra Necrozma from Ultra Sun/Moon is pretty much generally agreed to be a very difficult boss.
Something random with weasels and birds
Shouldn't that Tyranitar be the same one from his Generation III rematch as Champion? Instead of saying "gotten a Tyranitar", maybe you could say "he busts out his Tyranitar from the FireRed/LeafGreen rematches".
Edited by SneaselSawashiro A crazy guy who's researched voice actor resumes on the Japanese anime side :P
Thar be flabbergasting!
Can anyone provide an explanation on why this is locked? Is it due to Pokémon Sun & Moon being new?
Open the entry again due to the difficulty of the new Sun & Moon games in certain boss fights?
For the Gen III section, might I suggest an alteration to Winona's entry by any passing mods? Gen VI gave it Cotton Guard, which can max out Altaria's Defence in just two turns. Admittedly, only one of Altaria's weaknesses (Rock) prefers physical attacks, but it's still a major issue, especially if Earthquake caught the player off-guard and wiped out whatever they were planning to use. I've seen a lot of Let's Players get into serious trouble because they couldn't hurt Altaria properly after a couple of Earthquakes...
Since there's no entries for Gen VI, would it be acceptable to add Grant from Gen VI to the list? He's one of the only legitimately challenging Gym Leaders in XY due to avoiding Poor, Predictable Rock by having a Pokémon that resists the two most common weaknesses of Rock-types, and one that uses an Ice-type Take Down to deal with Grass-types. He also comes with a significant level spike, since unless you've either grinded a lot or been raising only one or two Pokemon, its unlikely you'll be at his level. Put that all together, and Grant is arguably one of the most cleverly designed Gym Leaders in the series, since his team is completely built to subvert the expectations of Rock-types.
Also I would remove Cheren from the list. He's easy even for first Gym Leader standards, and Work Up doesn't change the fact that both of his Pokemon are weak Com Mons.
Edited by Kyoni
Some additional rules?
Okay, I know there is some subjectivity with the difficulty of certain bosses, but some of these are just... questionable. For example, Gym leader Wallace/Juan. Does he really qualify as a one boss if he uses Luvdisc and Sealeo? Even mentioning Luvdisc on the one boss list detract's the entire definition of "That one boss." The argument "Having poor stats doesn't mean much if Luvdisc using sweet kiss and attact, so your pokemon are too busy hurting themselves" does not hold up; if it did, we might as well label Zubat "That one boss" which even the bottom of the barrel trainers have. That, and water pulse being the strongest offensive move Juan and Wallace has, really downgrades such credentials. The only thing that maybe needs to be mentioned is Kingdra's double team, rest, and typing. Though I'm pretty sure double team will put any boss on this list, so why not mention "Bosses that use Double Team or an overpowered setup move, like Juan, this guy, that girl, etc." It would cut down the page, and give mentions. Second, there are alot of gym leaders with easy 4x weaknesses, and some are easy to wall, even by a pokemon starter. Blaine and brock, i'm looking at you. I know, ymmv, but the page is fairly over-saturated with some bosses that are easily countered by common things, that really wouldn't compare with some bosses on the same page that are hard to counter even with the proper types, or some serious standouts like Whitney (which requires serious preparation no matter what) or some spinoff pokemon game bosses. Just a suggestion.
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You just highlighted why I abandoned curating this page a year ago. That, and no matter what I did someone would always come along and add more Natter or Walkthrough Mode details to several of the entries. It IS a mess, and not really a mess any one person can handle due to how generally easy the Pokemon games are.
Might a commented out note help? Or a page lock if it keeps up.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Locking the page to keep out the Natter and poor entries would be the best way to handle this.
Edited by VeryMelon
Can we add bosses from the fanmade games (Zeta and Omicron) here?
Edited by 67.176.88.197 Hide / Show Replies
I think that usually, subpages of the canon work don't get information from fanworks.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Without meaning to be rude...are we really counting a level 5 starter battle as a "That One Boss"? I mean, I get that it's YMMV, but...really?
Burn up, hurricane of justice! Hide / Show Replies
It's a case of Early Game Hell.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I do remember Sabrina being hard in the original Red/Blue/Yellow. But I do also remember her being much easier in Gold/Silver, due to Dark and Steel types? Anyone agree/disagree?
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She was easier for these reasons...
- Special stat was split into Special Attack and Special Defense. Pokemon with high Special got a nerf in one of those two categories. Psychics typically got lower Special Defense than Special Attack and were no longer tank-like against attacks like Flamethrower or Blizzard.
- At the same time, the Special split helped physical attackers. In Red and Blue, most Pokemon with high Attack (to hit the Psychics' weak physical defense) had garbage Special, so Alakazam could just outspeed and one-hit-kill with Psychic. Many physical attackers got Special Defense buffs; Snorlax is probably the most famous example, since he went from being terrible against Psychics unless he could set up with Amnesia to laughing at them.
- Kanto was post-game, so you had plenty of time to build a powerful team, which might have included the incredibly Special-resilient Ho-oh or Lugia.
- Her team was very under-leveled like most of the Kanto gym leaders. Compare this to her early-forties team in Red and Blue or her level 50 Alakazam in Yellow.
- There were more Pokemon that weren't weak to Psychic available beforehand. In RBY, there were over thirty Poison types, and every Fighting type in the game was also located before Sabrina's gym. There weren't nearly as many Poison types in gen 2, and there were more Psychic-resistant Pokemon like Jynx available beforehand.
Steel and Dark didn't actually help that much. Steel had Magneton, Forretress, and Skarmory (If you were playing Silver) unless you had someone to trade with. Dark had zilch besides Umbreon at that point.
I don't think rby Sabrina is necessarily difficult though if you're prepared for Alakazam's sheer power and recovery; the ai is also terrible, so bringing any high Special Pokemon with a physical attack will end him pretty quickly.
Edited by 174.29.37.238 Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
I added Siebold from X and Y to the list. It's possible that he could be a Breather Boss but it's a YMMV entry so it varies from person to person.
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I'm gong to cut him for now. the game just came out so we need time to gather more opinions. Let's wait until the 26th of October before adding anyone.
Well, I can't beat him at all. Sure, everyone else is overlevelled but the only overlevelled Pokemon I have are the two starters and that's it.
Edited by 99.229.137.24
The Korrina Gym Battle should be mentioned too because of her damned Hawlucha and it's Flying Press attack.
I don't really think Korrina was objectively very tough. I don't remember any aspects of the fight being difficult or tricky, including Flying Press. It was a fairly straightforward gym battle against a boss who wasn't overlevelled. It's not like Flying Press is a gamebreaker or anything.
EDIT: Well, I see it got added to the page. I find that surprising... but not as surprising as her Lucarios. I must've been severely overlevelled or something because they weren't stronger than my Pokemon... not to mention there were only two. But at least that fight mentions why they're on the list, while the Gym fight is just saying "Flying Press!" without saying why it's supposedly hard.
Edited by 108.48.88.58 Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Why is Lysdare there? He gets steamrolled with the legendary you literally get just before the fight.
Lysandre's difficulty is severely overexaggerated here. I know difficulty is subjective, but unless you never use the exp share at all, his levels won't be all that high. And even if you don't use Xerneas/Yveltal, his team with the possible exception of Mega Gyarados isn't that tough. Maybe the wording should be toned down and not totally overblown like it is now.
Yep. Lysandre doesn't belong at all. I ko'd his entire team with an Yveltal spamming Oblivion Wing, and I can't imagine how easy it is for Xerneas, a Pokemon that hits super-effective on three of his Pokemon and can use a stat boosting move as soon as you catch it. Gamefreak literally hands you the key to victory right before the battle.
I don't think Korrina belongs either (or any of the gym leaders).
I didn't have trouble with Siebold because Avalugg chewed up his Gyarados without any effort, but he's a good choice just because Dragon Dance Gyarados is always scary for someone who isn't expecting it.
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
The Ultimate Nerd
Why is Jasmine listed on both this page AND Breather Boss? It doesn't make any sense...
BOOM. Ah, frig, the fourth wall was broken AGAIN. Hide / Show Replies
Because YMMV. In my opinion, a lot of what's on this page really doesn't deserve to be here. Likewise, I assume there are people who disagree with the presence of some of the stuff on the Breather Boss page.
Edited by 69.172.221.2 Burn up, hurricane of justice!
First off, I'll admit I haven't actually played PBR, but...We're really calling a final boss using Chansey difficult to defeat now? I mean...use any physical attack. That's not difficult. Then again, Golbat and Kingler are apparently stupidly hard too...I just...really don't agree with calling a final boss "that one boss" if they've got such a lackluster team. Especially when that's tacked onto a remark about how you're fighting dozens of legendaries just to get there.
Maybe if it were like one of those hack final bosses where they've got a team of legendaries that's 10 levels higher than what you can be expected to have, I'd see where it's coming from, but that team really doesn't seem overpowered by the standards of the Pokemon series.
Burn up, hurricane of justice!
The Ultimate Nerd
I'll be perfectly honest: I did not find Colress that hard. Though that might be because I managed to take out Klinklang before he had a chance to really take advantage of its Shift Gears move (it helped that when it used Giga Impact after using Shift Gears three times, it missed), and I also took Beeheeyem out in one hit, before it had a chance to do anything...
BOOM. Ah, frig, the fourth wall was broken AGAIN. Hide / Show Replies
Honestly, I one hit KO'd every member of his team that didn't have Sturdy without being overleveled. Then again, if I removed everyone I didn't find SO DIFFICULT, this page wouldn't exist...
Burn up, hurricane of justice!
I agree. Having any ground types gets rid of the difficulty, apparently.
An menagerie of bad life choices
Would it be possible to add Hacks onto the list of games? Not all of them, but maybe certain ones (ones that have a Tv Tropes page, for example)? Just wanted to ask.
Ever on and on, I continue circling with nothing but my hate, in the carousel of agony... Hide / Show Replies
No, an example of a hack That One Boss was removed because this is for the official games.
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
Declining cut request on the ptitle redirect, due to 136 inbound links.
I didn't write any of that.
The Slurpuff entry in the Rumble section misspells Tauros as Tarous. Could someone fix that?
"That is hard to argue or agree with." ~Penny