Ask The Tropers

Because it's already on NightmareFuel.Paper Mario. NightmareFuel.Paper Mario The Origami King was made but cut because Paper Mario subpages tend to encourage shoehorning.

I just noticed we were missing the standard redirect, so I created that.

1. What the hell's "shoehorning"

2. Dude, have you even PLAYED the game? The game's up there with Super Paper Mario with how horrifying it is! And—correct me if I'm wrong—but I'm pretty sure Super Paper Mario has its own Nightmare Fuel page, so I don't get why Paper Mario: the Origami King doesn't have its own Nightmare Fuel page.

On a side note, I'm pleasantly suprised on how quick that reply was! On any other site, it would take at least an hour before a reply came! This is why I love TV Tropes!

I have to agree with spidey, I think the game is dark enough to warrant it's own page.

Shoehorning = forced examples. See Square Peg, Round Trope. Or better yet, the cleanup thread that decided to cut the subpage.

If you want to recreate it, maybe bring it up in that thread first, as the page was originally made very shortly after release and was full of stuff that wasn't really scary as well as natter.

Shoehorning is when people force a trope or audience reaction into places where it doesn't belong. In this case, it would be insisting everything in The Origami King is incredibly horrifying

Edit: don't know how i missed the responses already explaining this when I posted

I don't know why NightmareFuel.Super Paper Mario exists as its own subpage, as the folders for Thousand-Year Door and Origami King on the main NightmareFuel.Paper Mario page are both longer than it is.

There's a whole thread for dealing with problematic Nightmare Fuel examples. I don't go to the scary part of the wiki, but glancing through the latest posts, there do seem to have been concerns about the "My Favorite Show needs this subpage because that means its better" thing.

We can make a subpage if there are enough valid examples to warrant a split.

And ^ Yeah, there's a major issue with NF pages and similar where people will go out of their way to make their favorite work seem like the scariest, coolest, funniest thing in the world and they do so by exaggerating everything in the work or making shit up.

I can't talk to the Cleanup people, I have to wait 24 FUCKING HOURS!

^ Can you please calm down and be more civil?

Go take a walk or something mate, the thread will still be there tomorrow. There's no reason you need to rush and a lot of the "cleanup people" are here in this very discussion anyway.

The NF cleanup thread mentions Origami King and Paper Mario in general as stuff to keep an eye on because people keep adding not-scary examples. To name one, the TTYD folder currently says the Pit of 100 Trials is scary because of a Difficulty Spike. Origami King does have legit NF examples, but they need to be pruned from bad examples.

You can access and post at the thread anytime, but you may need to wait because the people in that thread may be busy with other stuff. Being impatient and demanding answers immediately doesn't bode well here.

^ No, the issue here is that Spidey can't post anywhere on the forums because of anti-spambot measures applied to new accounts.

Oh, right. Well, wait it out until you get forum privileges, and then post in the forum.

Spidey, while I understand what you're getting at (I too think the game has some scary/dark moments), you need to calm down and act more civil. You won't get what you're looking for if you aren't respectful about it.

^ Mhm. Also, no offense Spidey, but your current attitude seems exactly like the kind of person who'd shoehorn things in to make the work seem scarier.

Alright, I'm sorry for yelling. I'm calm now. Aldo, how do you add a profile picture?

Click on your avatar in the upper righthand corner of the site, and click "Profile" on the drop-down menu. There should be a plus sign next to your current profile picture when you hover over it. Add the new profile picture there.

^I tried, it says it works, but it doesn't update the picture. And how do you change your username?

There's a bug with avatars that is caused by, of all things, your time zone setting, so try changing that.

As for changing your username, you can't.

If you want to change your username, you need to make a new account.

Alright, so I'm fucked. Can we please get back to the subject of Origami King?

You don't get your way by being rude.

What is the standard for a series having a single unified Moments page, versus each work having its own, anyway?

There isn't much of one, but certain subpages, such as Heartwarming or YMMV, tend to get migrated to the series page if there's not many examples for the individual work. Entries can migrate from the Creator page to the individual work page, and sometimes to the series page. If there's enough (where "enough" is just "consensus in the moment supports"), the individual work subpage gets remade.

I believe creating subpages is warranted when:

1. The work has at least 15 valid examples.
2. The main page is giving overly long warnings.

The reason for keeping it on one page is it’s easier to curate examples. Is there reason to think it’s own page won’t impede that or encourage misuse?

The NightmareFuel.Paper Mario page image was replaced with one from Origami King that I'm not sure conveys the scariness. I’ll take to image pickin’. It’s a possible example that the hype is getting in the way of determining what’s valid.

^ What you've supplied is a good standard for splitting a unified page into individual pages, but it assumes the page is unified to begin with.

If a different series has individual pages for works, what would be a standard for unifying them instead of leaving it that way?

If, after cleanup, there are too few examples to warrant individual pages.

Super Paper Mario has only 6 examples. Is that worth keeping an independent page?

^ Probably not.

So now you guys are saying that NONE of the Paper Mario games should have their own Nightmare Fuel pages?

I mean, the examples would still exist, they'd just be merged into the franchise page for lack of content for each specific page. I don't see what the big deal is.

Like wingedcatgirl said, it's the "My Favorite Show needs this subpage because that means its better" thing.

So we're treating NightmareFuel.Paper Mario The Origami King as a subpage of Nightmare Fuel, not a subpage of VideoGame.Paper Mario The Origami King?

You can be a subpage (or subtrope) to multiple pages.

I have no words

Super Mario Odyssey has it's own Nightmare Fuel page but Psper Mario the Origami King doesn't.

Makes perfect sense.

Have you listened to anything we've been saying or are you only here to complain unproductively?

Remember: be civil. If you want the change you're looking for, complaining won't make that happen.

As previously noted, The Origami King does have a fairly lengthy folder on NightmareFuel.Paper Mario, as does The Thousand Year Door. What I would do is run both folders through the Nightmare Fuel cleanup thread, and then if after that they are still fairly lengthy, I'd split them both off to their own pages.

Yeah, this discussion is getting pretty long. It should be taken to the nightmare fuel cleanup thread.

I do think individual works' Moments subpages shouldn't need to be lumped together with the series as a whole on the basis of length alone, personally. Short moments subpages for standalone works don't typically get lumped in with the medium, after all.

Though in this case there's apparently an issue with shoehorning and this is the intended solution? I don't go to Nightmare Fuel, so I'm assuming that's all fine enough.

Also, Spidey, if you have a problem with NightmareFuel.Super Mario Odyssey, feel free to elaborate in the Nightmare Fuel cleanup. It may turn out to not warrant its own page either, if too many examples are shoehorned.

And, at the end of the day, just remember that all it is is a page on a wiki. Whether it has a subpage or is merged with other pages, it's still just a page on a wiki and isn't worth worrying over.

I think this discussion should continue on the discussion page, not ATT.