Liked the old version better: Beneath The Mask

Het Eddie thanks for taking interested in the article I made I think you make a great job erasing redundancies.however I believe my article lost it's soul( and became boring and uninteresting like wikipedia ) so I was wondering if I could keep the main description( but modified) at least.

While keeping the other stuff you deleted erased thanks!!

edited 5th Sep '10 9:25:03 AM by masterchief

The way you had it written was really difficult to understand. And clarity is really vital, in the descriptions and definitions, especially. Reverting Fast Eddie's changes will make it difficult to understand again. Which will make it less useful as a trope, because people will read it, scratch their heads, and say "I don't get it." and forget about it.

I don't know what it looked like before, but I don't think the current description reads very well. It just feels very.. dry. It sounds like it's trying to sound like it's saying a lot more than it's actually saying. The part at the bottom rattling off other tropes is longer than the actual description.

The key point of this trope is that the way someone acts like on the outside is different from their true selves, right? I'm just not getting that from the description. I think it could use a re-writing that's a bit more to the point.

The old version is in the page history.

It's just a disaster. I tried to isolate a thesis statement. Now we're hearing that that isn't it, either. I agree that the title goes well with a trope about a difference between how the person acts and what they are like 'under the mask'.

Dropping the bit about the mask being pulled off by anonymity/power could help.

If the intended point was more about how anonymity/power was the cause of the reveal of what is 'under the mask,' it is really another trope. One which should refer back to a trope about there being something 'under the mask'.

Anyway, it is all over the place and murky as hell. Nobody trying to help can figure out what was intended.

edited 5th Sep '10 1:01:11 PM by FastEddie

ok eddie

would you mind if I fix it? a (new versions)

edited 5th Sep '10 1:10:28 PM by masterchief

Ah, well, what would be considered "fixing" it is subjective. I think it would be better to discuss things here before making any more big changes.

Best course of action I think would be to draft something here in the forum, and if people agree it's good, make the swap.

well to make clear the premise here is an initial draft:

basicaly it is based on the theories of personality (like freud) ,and the ideas filosofy of people like elias canetti.

The premise was that people have a hidden self (rangin from something as little as feelings to a whole other pesonality) maybe the person is a sad but pretends being happy. maybe the persons pretends disliking nerds (but is a nerd in secret). Ironicaly due to a phenomen in psychology called "repression" sometimes not even the person that has this hidden persona is aware of it.

Obviously this hidden/repressed self has to be expressed someway, one way it expressed is through

1. anonimity like :when you hide your true feeling in your mindthink inner sakuramaybe in your head you insult your boss while in real life you smile to him},when the character has a power like invisinbiliy,or a secret identity (Clark Kenting), a fake persona, or an online persona.
2. Through power:The whole point of hiding your true self is becuase you are scared of wehat others migth think ... but If you have power you dont care anymore of what others might think becuase they would be powerless to do anything about it.
3. Through indiference : a character realises that he doesnt have anything to lose(is going to die due to a curse) or was already "unmasked" and therefore starts acting like how they realy are

While at the surface this trope seems similar to GIFT it actualy has the the oposite premise . Gift claims that people act like jerks when anoniomus becuase they get corrupted like the old saying says "power corrupts. this trope on the other side says that power doesnt "corrupt" , the only thing it does is to "reveal" the hidden self of a persona.

this istnt Hidden Depths neither as that trope is about hidden backstory and skills not personality.

hope this way is more clear

edited 5th Sep '10 2:39:51 PM by masterchief

^ ... I'm sorry, but I really can't make out what you're trying to say right there.

edited 5th Sep '10 2:37:34 PM by Komodin

sorry I made it in arush I will fix it.

In the meantime feel free to ask any questions you may have.

So basically this is about having a hidden side to your character that you don't let people see, and eventually it comes out - either when you're anonymous so nobody can connect it with you, or when you have enough power that nobody dares think less of you for it, or from eventually learning an aesop or being unmasked and deciding you don't care anymore.

Also, at the very least, spellchecking your posts will help readability immensely. "anonymous", "Basically", "anonymity", "phenomenon", et cetera. It's harder to understand the poor English when the words are also misspelled.

I am working on a new description , for one that is more clear.

Is this related?

We wear the mask that grins and lies
It hides our face and shields our eyes.
This debt we pay to human guile:
With Torn and bleeding hearts we smile.

- Paul Laurence Dunbar. (Totaly one of my favorite poems.)

edited 9th Sep '10 11:24:48 AM by Elle

^ That would be a great page quote.

My attempt:

Man is a duplicitous creature. Many people have one face that they show to the world - the mask, the facade, call it what you will - and the face that they only let show when they believe they are safe, or when fierce emotion such as passion or anger make them vulnerable. It's not necessary for a character to consciously realize they're doing this. This is what's Beneath the Mask.

A revelation of this hidden self can come through the story in several ways. Common ones include:

• Anonymity: If no one knows it's the unmasked character, it can't come back to haunt them. Due to the Law Of Narrative Causality, inevitably someone close to the character will catch them in their vulnerable aspect, and plot ensues.

• Power: If you're powerful enough, you don't have to be hurt by the consequences of showing your unmasked self. This can be either positive or negative: when positive, a character gains the poise, strength and self-confidence so that they need not be afraid to be themselves. On the negative side, Power Corupts, and it turns out they were masking a particularly nasty streak.

• The Power of Love and/or The Power of Friendship: Another character or characters will eventually become trusted enough by the masked character that they feel comfortable letting down their guard. May lead to Epiphany Therapy in works prone to it.

• Emotional response: Often revealed in the form of a Berzerk Button being pressed, which is when you get tropes like Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass.

May be accompanied by one or more of many tropes: What You Are in the Dark, Jerk with a Heart of Gold, Jerkass Façade, Bitch in Sheep's Clothing, Broken Bird, Shrinking Violet, Obfusicating Stupidity, Obfucicating Insanity, You Are What You Hate, Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass and more. Becoming the Mask is when the "mask" personality takes over the inner one.

The part about "indiference" is what I'm most confused by, and it's posed as "what happens when the mask goes away", which I think it outside the scope of what a trope with this title needs. I also took some liberty to add unmasking conditions beyond whatever might or might not be in the psychology textbook; I think all that bleeds into Viewers Are Geniuses fallacies. Also, the GIFT connection is only worth a footnote at best.

edited 9th Sep '10 11:08:56 PM by Elle

Elle both your quote and yor descriptionare amazing couldn't have done better myself awesome !! I approve :)

^ Elle you are made an awesome job , just making some minor improvements :).

Tropers feel free to post If you think this new version is ready

Man is a duplicitous creature. Many people have one face that they show to the world - the mask, the facade, call it what you will - and the face that they only let show when they believe they are safe, or when fierce emotion such as passion or anger make them vulnerable. The secrets this "mask" hides are varied,They can be something simple like a hiden crush or complex , like a whole other personality. It's not necessary for a character to consciously realize they're doing this, nor that they have a hiddden self. This is what's Beneath the Mask.

A revelation of this hidden self can come through the story in several ways. Common ones include:

• Anonymity: If no one knows it's the unmasked character, it can't come back to haunt them. Due to the Law Of Narrative Causality, inevitably someone close to the character will catch them in their vulnerable aspect, and plot ensues.(secret identity,Stepford Smiler etc.).

• Power: If you're powerful enough, you don't have to be hurt by the consequences of showing your unmasked self. This can be either positive or negative: when positive, a character gains the poise, strength and self-confidence so that they need not be afraid to be themselves. On the negative side,With Great Poer Comes Great Insanity, and it turns out they were masking a particularly nasty streak.(With Great Power Comes Great Insanity,Screw The Rules I Have Super Natural Powersetc)

• Confidence: Another character or characters will eventually become trusted enough by the masked character ,(for instace with The Power Of Love and/or The Power Of Friendship)that they will feel comfortable letting down their guard. May lead to Epiphany Therapy in works prone to it.

• Emotional response: Often revealed in the form of a Berzerk Button being pressed, or trough a Freudian Slip. (ex.Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass).

May be accompanied by one or more of many tropes: What You Are in the Dark, Jerk with a Heart of Gold, Jerkass Façade, Bitch in Sheep's Clothing, Broken Bird, Shrinking Violet, Obfusicating Stupidity, Obfucicating Insanity, You Are What You Hate, Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass and more. Becoming the Mask is when the "mask" personality takes over the inner one

edited 10th Sep '10 9:02:28 PM by masterchief

See, I don't like that word, indifference, in the context you put it in. The person confessing/showing the other side of their mask to a friend or lover might still care very much; he may make them swear to keep it a secret, or he may only trust that one person/people enough to let his guard down, but the mask goes back up around others. Or it could be because they care about that trusted person and are more motivated to be honest with them.

Also, very much want to hear opinions from other tropers before anything goes live.

^You are right

"indifernce" is not the correct word here . Need to think in a better term.

I think the way I did that one is fine: the section is phrased in terms of "ways the person behind the mask gets revealed". Around here the Power of Love/Friendship are well understood to be the cause of many things.

Yeah I agree , I will fix it.

Nice job BTW!!

Honestly, they types make it worse. They completely confuse what the trope is supposed to be about and they don't actually apply to the examples. I say scrap them and figure out what the trope is honestly about rather than trying to define it on the basis of things it could possibly include maybe.

^You think so?

Well they arent types anymore those "types" are now part of the description. However I agree that I should rewrite them a bit to make more clear.

I am working on a better description tough.

edited 10th Sep '10 10:19:19 PM by masterchief

the decription needs to be more solid