Regarding the Trivia namespace (crowner switched 20th Jan 2020)

That crosses a line passed Shout-Out into an almost Expy type territory though which maybe under a different trope?

No, it's the difference between a Shout-Out and an Allusion. The first is a little piece of fun for people who like to play Where's Wally with their media. The latter is a literary term used when this is actually influential to the story.

An R2-D2 key chain hanging from a back pack is a Shout-Out.

Using the references to Alice In Wonderland to create a surreal world is an Allusion.

They're currently the same trope, but I can see the reasoning for splitting them.

edited 26th Jan '11 4:11:37 PM by shimaspawn

The problem being that Allusion currently redirects to Shout Out, and is covered by the definition on that page.

Yep, so what we'd have to do is split the trope from the trivia.

I can definitely see Allusion being misused, though. People will want to add what another person might consider a Shout Out to the main entry for Allusion.

We can have the page say that there exists another form of Shout-Out that's even better than an Allusion- called a Brilliant Subversion- thus reducing this to a problem we already have.

??? Explain please?

edited 26th Jan '11 4:42:12 PM by shimaspawn

I would, but that'd violate Don't Explain The Joke. Nothing important, move along.

(I believe the joke was that the kind of people who list their favorite shows on everything are drawn to the words 'brilliantly subverted' like moths to a neon sign.

So, should we start adding the ones with a 2/3 or greater positive ratio to the index?

The ones with high vote count (+13) I would say yes

The others maybe a little more time.

edited 27th Jan '11 12:56:34 PM by Raso

Nothing over +10 seems disputed and 10 is a nice round number. It would make a good initial cut off. The rest can stew a bit more and we'll see how they fall out in a couple days or so.

That's done. Since no one answered me last time, I'll ask again. What do you think of making an exception for trivia examples on creator pages? They are kind of trivia in themselves already and there aren't that many fictional tropes you can use to describe a real person anyway, especially someone you don't personally know.

By the way, can you remove options from the crowner or do I just replace the text with "already added"?

Edit: Hmm, the articles are not getting the banner like Eddie said they would. Some have the fan-speak banner, so we may want to take them off that index.

edited 27th Jan '11 2:25:12 PM by Killomatic

He might not have gotten around to coding the banner yet. He's got a lot on his plate at the moment.

Let's add a few more things to the crowner to liven it up. Talking To Himself, Throw It In!, Improv, Harpo Does Something Funny and Fountain of Memes all sound like Trivia material to me. Also, still waiting on that lingering question of mine. Nothing fancy, a simple yes or no will do.

Improv is a genre. Not Trivia.

First I hear of it. The article is clearly written as Throw It In! But More.

That's what the genre of Improv is. It's a genre that entirely consists of people making shit up on the spot. Throw It In! is a moment of Improve in a script. Improv itself is bigger than that though and is a genre.

edited 27th Jan '11 3:41:36 PM by shimaspawn

Well, it should probably be mentioned in the description then. And I thought Harpo Does Something Funny was a moment of Improv in a scrip, and Throw It In! was unintended. Anyway, should I add the others?

edited 27th Jan '11 3:49:06 PM by Killomatic

Talking To Himself, and Fountain of Memes sure, but the others are far too in work especially in live media.

edited 27th Jan '11 3:49:53 PM by shimaspawn

How is something that requires confirmation from the writer/director to identify "too in work"?

Well, first of all, most Improv shows market themselves as such. As for the others, it's the reason that when you go to a live show it's not the same every time you go.

Improv can stay if it's really a genre, but Throw It In! and Harpo Does Something Funny are production details more than anything else. Most examples on the pages don't seem to be from live shows either.

How about Dawson Casting and Cross-Dressing Voices?

That was like 50 posts ago, so I forgot about it already, but yeah good call.

edited 27th Jan '11 4:24:01 PM by Killomatic

Re Memetic Badass and Memetic Sex God, I suspect that those are actually closer to the Audience Reaction category when they're fan-memes, and tropes when they're in-work.

Also, I'd like to open a can of worms (as it's still unresolved on the other thread), but not put it on the crowner yet: Did Not Do The Research and subtropes.

edited 27th Jan '11 4:24:41 PM by Elle

Memetic Badass and Memetic Sex God are indeed audience reactions, not Trivia. Trivia items objectively exist; there's something you can point to besides someone's opinion, even if it's just Word of God.

Not liking DNDTR as Trivia. Production goofs, sure; IMDB has those in spades. But factual errors do affect fan appreciation of a work, even if peripherally and not for everyone. This is why they're flagged subjective. One could analyze every single work for places where it failed to be sufficiently realistic, historical, what have you, but that's wankery. Anthropic Principle dictates that the fundamental elements of the work are there because they are the fundamental elements of the work. Adherence to reality is optional.

edited 27th Jan '11 4:29:14 PM by Fighteer