Regarding the Trivia namespace (crowner switched 20th Jan 2020)

Statistics:

• Dueling-Stars Movie: 9 up, 5 down
• The Cast Showoff: 5 up, 2 down
• Hide Your Pregnancy: 9 up, 7 down
• Dear Negative Reader: 4 up, 2 down

Just a heads-up because people still aren't bothering to post in the thread, Creator's Favorite Episode silently snuck onto the crowner.

Edit: It's also a recently-launched page that hasn't been indexed... or crosswicked.

edited 11th May '15 10:32:45 AM by SolipSchism

I'd like to talk about Undermined By Reality. I'm not nominating it yet, because I'm torn over whether it should be a Trivia trope or a YMMV one. The basic gist of the trope is that real life events undermine the message or theme of a story. Essentially, it's an Aesop that's broken because of something outside the story rather than in-universe. For example, an anti-drug PSA is undermined when it's revealed that the lead actor did a shit-ton of drugs behind the scenes. Once I get a sense of what you guys think, I'll put the trope on the appropriate crowner.

Hard to say, though I kind of want to put it in Trivia just so it doesn't get overrun by politicized bitching (of which there's already one example on the page). But I can see arguments for it qualifying as either one.

edited 11th May '15 6:40:00 PM by nrjxll

It's still about stuff from outside the actual work, so it sounds like trivia to me.

Question: I propose a Trivia page called No Original Members, a listing of contemporary music bands that have existed, even briefly, with no original members. A Revolving Door Band taken Up To Eleven. Bands in this category include Gong, Renaissance, Blood Sweat And Tears, and TheSoftMachine.

That's something for YKTTW, but I don't think it holds water, as just about every musician comes from somewhere else. I think it's far more unusual to have only played in one band ever, if you're talking about musicians who do it for a living.

It would fall under Trivia, though.

Fair enough.

edited 12th May '15 2:44:32 PM by AnotherDuck

I think you inverted what they meant to talk about—they're not talking about the members, they're talking about the band itself. As in, in 1960, Alice, Bob, and Carol start a band, called "Band". The years pass. In 1970, Alice leaves the band; Dave takes her place. More years pass; in 1980, Carol leaves the band, and Elize takes her place. More years pass; in 1990, Bob leaves the band, and Fred takes his place.

Wait a second—the band members are now Dave, Elize, and Fred—literally none of the original members are still in the band, and yet it's still called "Band".

On an unrelated note, rmctagg09 improperly changed Creator's Favorite Episode to Trivia (by moving it to the Trivia namespace instead of indexing it under Trivia, not to mention making a Main-to-Trivia redirect) and I'm sending them a PM to ask them to clean that up.

I want to PM justanotherrandomlurker about crosswicking the same page, but it looks like we're probably going to make it Trivia, which means all the wicks would need to move, and I don't want to ask them to make a bunch of links that'll have to change. I guess I should wait for that one to be called before sending a PM.

edited 12th May '15 9:34:00 AM by SolipSchism

I'm of the opinion that Creator's Favorite Episode should just be merged with Creator's Favorite (which is about characters) since they're similar enough.

I'm going to add Undermined By Reality to the crowner now, since I don't see any objections.

Re: Creator's Favorite and Creator's Favorite Episode, eh, I could go either way. I feel like they should be listed separately, which would be messy on one page.

I'm voting Undermined By Reality up. I see a handful of very convincing reasons to call it trivia, and one or two unconvincing reasons to call it a "trope". Not too hard to judge that one.

edited 12th May '15 1:33:30 PM by SolipSchism

I feel like Creator's Favorite Episode isn't even Trivia as we define it. It's just... nothing. There's no trope there at all.

Our definition of Trivia seems to allow it.

From Trivia: "[Trivia pages] are for on-topic information, fun facts that are not really storytelling tropes (unless they happen In-Universe)....You can also add Trivia items that don't fit any category or premade page as long as it is legitimately trivia, and not a trope or an Audience Reaction."

In other words, pretty much anything you could call a "fun fact" is trivia. Like, "Fun fact: Creator Joss Whedon has gone on record saying that X is his favorite episode of Firefly."

edited 12th May '15 1:37:44 PM by SolipSchism

Yeah, but wouldn't that just be a loose trivia entry, not a specific trope? I just don't see anything there that's worth having an article.

Oh, well. I mean, if a creator having a favorite character in their own work is worth consolidating into a list, I don't see them having a favorite episode of their own work being that much different. It's certainly not a trope if you ask me, but I'm definitely not applying trope standards to what I see as a trivia item.

To Solip Schism, that's a good description of no original members, actually!

I've just heard the concept mentioned in Real Life is all. I don't follow bands closely enough to be able to name any, though. Some bands approach it—like Marilyn Manson, I think. Isn't Marilyn himself the only original member? I mean, he is the face of the band, but still. (Not An Example, I know, just illustrating my lack of awareness. :p)

Nonetheless, it's a very helpful summary!

Calling Creator's Favorite Episode, Dueling-Stars Movie, and The Cast Showoff.

Oh good. Now I can bug CFE's creator about crosswicking.

Edit: I'd like to nominate Out of Order, which is when a work is aired/released/published in a different order than the work was meant to be consumed. Not to be confused with Anachronic Order, where the work is created "out of order" chronologically speaking, like the Narnia books or the Heralds of Valdemar series. This is when a work is created with a certain progression of installments, and then when it's published/aired, the installments are released out of order.

Edit edit: Also... new crowner? This one is frakking huge.

edited 15th May '15 10:23:26 AM by SolipSchism

Would like to add Fix Fic. It describes fan reactions and subsequent fanfics.

edited 17th May '15 4:19:43 PM by eroock

It's sort of like a genre. Not trivia.

So where should it go? It doesn't fit well in a trope list, see the Fix Fic example on Toy Story 3.

edited 17th May '15 4:23:08 PM by eroock

It should not go in a trope list; it's a genre tag that belongs in the description. It's not Trivia.

To clarify after looking at that example, Fix Fic doesn't belong anywhere on that page because Toy Story 3 is not a Fix Fic—the example describes FixFics of the movie, which means if someone can identify those fics, the trope can be listed there (as Fighteer says, likely in the description rather than the trope list).

It's right along with every other "relevant to another work" trope or YMMV or trivia: It belongs on the work that actually is or provides an example of it, not the work being referenced or homaged or whatever.

EDIT: Out of Order? Thoughts? New crowner?

edited 18th May '15 9:28:00 AM by SolipSchism