During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Woagh
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Quick question: What's his relationship with Jenova if he sees her as his mom?
Abstaining on both quotes, BTW.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 1st 2021 at 5:32:14 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Alright, we've been waiting for this haven't we?
What's the work?
Cyberpunk 2077 is a video game by CD Projekt Red and that is all I will be mentioning for this controversy, based on the Cyberpunk setting proper. The year is 2077, the Free State of California...in Night City, a dystopia where the world is shattered. Megacorps run the world, people get by on cybernetic sensations called 'Braindance', with criminal gangs all about.
You are "V," a new arrival in Night City, hired to steal from the Arasaka corporation...nd witness its chief executive's death at the hands of his son. Things go very wrong, the man who hires V shoots him/her and V is...possessed by the ghost of rock star revolutionary Johnny Silverhand...who is taking V over and V must get involved in a lot to survive Night City.
Now, the main baddies don't count, save for one who might with the broader Tabletop stuff. However, one villain keeps in the sidequest, or Gig, Monster Hunt: Jotaro Shobo
What's he done?
A member of the Tyger Claws who's risen up in the ranks due to his efficiency and brutality, known as "The Devil of Kabuki." Jotaro is also a twisted, monstrous sadist and a serial killer with a bodycount of 16...but in his spare time? He makes Brain Dance snuff films where he tortures women to death in the most ludicrously monstrous ways possible.
Now, you run into the emails Shobo writes at certain he still gets disturbing characterization from the emails he writes...where he brainstorms snuff film ideas like, "Can I force one of my victims to kill the loved ones of a second victim while making the second victim experience it from the first victim's point of view, as if they're murdering their loved ones. What're the logistics of that?" Jotaro takes his victims and tortures them brutally, in the most twisted, painful and psychologically destroying ways he can think of....another time, you run into another snuff ring that practices more "humane" styles...and you can find Jotaro's emails asking for a team up to expand his business.
V is assigned to get the sick fucker, take him down and "earn a little scratch" in the process....now, Jotaro is hiding out after being such a sick fuck has made so many want him dead. No fanfare to it: You sneak in or blast in, find Jotaro and take him out.
So mitigating Qualities?
Not even sure what to say. Night City is DARK, full of bad people doing bad things, but few ever override one another. I admit I'm not boned up on Cyberpunk as a whole, but I am researching a bit for the final boss of the game, sadistic murderer Adam Smasher who doesn't do enough in game, but may in the broader setting, AKA what happened with Eredin in Witcher.
Is Jotaro richly characterized? No, but we have enough here. He's got no good qualities at ALL, he's a sadistic monster who tortures people in the worst, most sickening ways to sell on the black market all to satisfy his hunger for suffering. If not for the emails I'd say we didn't have enough...but we do. It's beyond anyone else in the game for pure sickness. Now, the head of Arasaka is a pure WIE who wishes to cause a huge war to see the evil of Arasaka's legacy wiped out, tons of criminals and gangs never go this far. Jotaro?
Conclusion?
And a keeper for Japanese Cyberpunk Rich Jacobs if that doesn't sound a bit too egotistical.
Showtime!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Bishop, Agaundar, the flayer and morganville vampires quote, and the first sephiroth quote
EDIT: and J Otaro
Edited by Libraryseraph on Jan 1st 2021 at 8:44:23 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
to Agandaur and Jotaro.
Dagded Dujardin
to Jotaro.
Also, oof on me missing my Ultraman Z EP. Better luck next time for me, :p. I'll reserve Ultra Galaxy Fight: The Absolute Conspiracy just in case.
Edited by VengefulBale on Jan 1st 2021 at 7:49:01 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
to Jotaro.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to The Bishop quote and Jotaro, not feeling either Sephiroph quote
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
to Jotaro Shobo.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to both Sephiroth quotes (first one sounds a little too comical and the second one doesn't sound heinous enough).
Edited by DrUnknown on Jan 1st 2021 at 5:54:40 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Jotaro
Goku Black
Jotaro
@Vengeful: You can still do the ep. In fact Godzilla wasn't supposed to since it was reserved by you. Which is why we weren't voting on him for the most part.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Happy 2030, everyone! (and no, I'm not gonna explain why I said 2030. If you get it, you get it)
Anyway, I was thinking back on one of my older candidates and honestly ... I think I overplayed the sadist angle of his character. I'll need to rewatch the movie, but I'd say that if there's anything he qualifies as, it's Magnificent Bastard. Fatally wounding the cop was cruel, and yes, he has the body count to set the heinous standard but really, he's otherwise not so bad. He scared the family away from the vehicles before he could set them ablaze, not out of some petty sadistic pleasure, but because he didn't need or maybe even want to kill them. If I recall correctly, he just stood there menacingly so they'd run. Also, I now take the narrator's claim that he doesn't enjoy what he does, plus his last words were "I love you, Wendy." While this was indeed after he'd just tried to kill her a bunch of times ... I think he really believes that he loves her. So I'd vote cut, if only so I can propose him as an MB. Any other thoughts?
Edited by Stellarvore on Jan 1st 2021 at 8:01:50 AM
Jotaro
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Also, cut Dust Devil.
Edited by MasterN on Jan 1st 2021 at 6:12:03 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Sure, cut away
Goku Black
Surprised someone took so long to make that joke. Lol
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut him.
The wifi here sucks
Cut the Dust Devil.
Cut the Dust Devil.
We need a rewrite for The Intruder from Toonami as he seems to only qualify for this based on his actions in the sequel. A similar case to King Boo. This should go in The Intruder II YMNV page:
The Intruder, once a mindless, indestructible Blob Monster, became something far worse after consuming TOM 1. Gaining sapience after absorbing TOM 1, the Intruder plotted revenge on TOM for defeating him. Having become proud of the thousands of lives it previously absorbed, the Intruder found TOM 4's signal and gleefully absorbed him and his cohosts Flash and D. Finding the Absolution Mk. III, the Intruder sets out to make TOM suffer before killing him by assimilating SARA and bragging about it to TOM, before trying to kill TOM with the Absolution's canons.
Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Jan 1st 2021 at 6:50:29 AM
Jotaro. And if Adam Smasher ends up counting, I will say that he has one of the strangest lines that I have ever heard from a CM: "You look like a cut of fuckable meat. Are you?" Seriously, I don't know whether to praise the writers for creativity or ask why would he even say that.
Oh, and cut Dust Devil. Also, any more votes for the Mind Flayer quote.
I'd like to propose one of these quotes for Abridged!Sephiroth
Quote one, from episode 11:
Cloud: Oh, good, you're gonna apologize! Well, I accept—
Sephiroth: I murdered your mother, Cloud.
Cloud: ...Excuse me?
Sephiroth: You admired me so much. And now you've experienced the pain I've felt for so long. We finally have something in common. Isn't that what you've always wanted? To be just..like...me?
Quote two, from the movie:
Edited by creativename24 on Jan 1st 2021 at 8:20:43 AM