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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#198401: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:11:01 PM

On second thought, it has been a day past 2 weeks since the subtitled edition of the series finale for Special 7 came out, so technically, I could discuss Special 7 now, correct?

Rawr.
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#198402: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:28:33 PM

[up][up]One or two grammar errors in the Jefferson entry ("where/were" confusion) but otherwise all good.

So Falskaar now exists, so when Yngvarr's entry is drafted and ready it'll have a place to go. For now, I'm off to bed!

Edited by captainmarkle on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:28:53 AM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198403: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:48:56 PM

So for Fitcher's Bird, just put it under the Grim tree at Lit?

[up][up] Sure.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#198404: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:51:09 PM

[up]Yeah. I was going to put it under the Something Scary tree, but it's not one of their orignal works and looking over it, there's virtually no difference between the story and Soemthing Scary's reading.

Edited by Beast on Jan 13th 2020 at 4:51:23 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198405: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:51:53 PM

Speaking of Something Scary, these the correct links?

Also, Web Original or Creepypasta?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198406: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:53:37 PM

Curious what makes something a creepypasta or a web original ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198407: Jan 13th 2020 at 2:55:14 PM

Like, some are obvious; if it's at, say, the Creepypasta wikia. Or nosleep's a subset. But in this case? I don't know.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#198408: Jan 13th 2020 at 3:00:25 PM

Yes, those are the links. As for where they go ?

Aaaahhh; that's a tough one. Again, their content consists of telling short scary stories, which can and has included Creepypastas, but that also includes historical stories, fairy tails, true crimes and stories based on folklore.

I'd say web orignal just to be safe.

Edited by Beast on Jan 13th 2020 at 5:00:48 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#198409: Jan 13th 2020 at 3:03:18 PM

So, I just learned that dates for Anime Discussions go by 2 weeks after the sub, not the dub. Bearing that in mind, I actually could have discussed this yesterday, but I'm discussing it now, since it's not worth putting off any further.

What is the work?

Special 7: Special Crime Investigation Unit is a 2019 Urban Fantasy/Police Procedural Anime.

Nine years prior to the setting of the series, when he was in junior high, Seiji Nanatsuki survived an attack on one of Tokyo's airports, having been rescued by a police officer, who inspired him to become a police officer himself. When Seiji is caught up in a robbery orchestrated by Nine, the group behind the airport attacks, he ends up as part of the titular investigation unit. Eventually, he finds himself face to face with the leader of the organization once again.

Who is Warlock, and what has he done?

Warlock is the magician leader of the terrorist group Nine, and a dragon who holds mortal species in contempt.

Nine years prior to the setting of the series, Warlock led an attack on one of Tokyo's airports, killing numerous people. In response to Police Detective Luka Mizuma interfering with his ritual by saving a young Seiji Nanatsuki, Warlock mentally breaks Luka by threatening the latter's younger brother, Nijo Kujaku, and turns Luka into his brainwashed subordinate.

In the present day, Warlock has a jewel stolen from a bank for his use in one of his rituals, with Nanatsuki taken hostage in the process alongside Luka's former partner Shiori Ichinose. When this fails, Warlock proceeds to manipulate the secretaries of four corrupt politicians into killing each others bosses, falsely promising to grant them power.

In a subsequent attempt at a power play, Warlock works with a mad bomber, "B", using magic seals to exacerbate the blast radius of B's bombs. However, Special 7 proceeds to disarm the bombs and magic seals.

Warlock's manipulations are such that B tries to murder the same child twice as a sacrifice of his own accord.

Subsequently, Warlock gathers a large group of armed personnel, taking a mall hostage, before revealing that he intended to use his own men in a ritual to summon a dragon, which Special 7 kill before it can do significant damage.

Later, to prevent a former associate from testifying against him, Warlock sends Luka to kill the witness.

When his trial commences, Warlock poses as his own lawyer, before revealing the prisoner thought to be him as a decoy, killing multiple people including the decoy, then engaging in a battle with Nanatsuki and Ichinose in the courthouse.

Warlock finally confronts Sakon Kiryuin on the roof of the police station, where they fight, before Special 7 joins the fray, plus Luka, who is no longer under Warlock's control. After being defeated and losing his powers, Warlock has the mother of all temper tantrums, until Special 7 finally takes him into custody.

Heinousness?

In addition to the airport attacks, Warlock is also behind a robbery, four political assassinations, an attempted bombing of three buildings, a hostage crisis in a mall-basically almost every major atrocity in the series so far can be traced to him. Other than four corrupt politicians who were involved in extremely reprehensible activities (such as child prostitution and forced labour) offscreen, and a Doctor who killed homunculi for their hearts, almost every villain's actions are sanctioned/encouraged/orchestrated by Warlock.

TL, DR? Big Bad. Sets it.

Mitigating Factors?

To put it bluntly, Warlock's claims of pursuing justice are absolute horseshit. Warlock thinks that just because he is more powerful than other people, he can do whatever the fuck he wants, and everything he does demonstrates how little of a rats ass he gives about others (i.e. none).

Now, there are two scenes where Warlock plays with a dog, Johnny, but it doesn't really come off as if he has any genuine affection, compassion, or empathy, for the animal. (Even though he does seem to tend to Johnny as a pet, it comes off more like a Blofeld's cat scenario, inasmuch as it does not serve to make him sympathetic, and he only seems to see the Johnny as a walking possession who he maintains only inasmuch as the latter is a possession, and he talks about walking Johnny in such a tone which does not convey genuine affection or care for the animal).

Otherwise, Warlock is just a power-hungry, arrogant, prejudiced megalomaniac with a callous disregard for mortal life.

Verdict?

I am strongly inclined to sentence Warlock to the subpages.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 13th 2020 at 6:03:48 AM

Rawr.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198411: Jan 13th 2020 at 4:17:11 PM

[tup]Warlock

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#198413: Jan 13th 2020 at 4:54:43 PM

Yes to the Sublime Guide, Wade Jennings, Battuta, and the Warlock.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
deathnoteFNBOI58 Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
#198415: Jan 13th 2020 at 5:30:07 PM

Is anyone still working on if Sirin/Herrscher of the Void from Honkai Impact 3rd is a Complete Monster or not? Because I'm pretty sure that a solid case can be made for her

Edited by deathnoteFNBOI58 on Jan 13th 2020 at 8:30:33 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#198416: Jan 13th 2020 at 5:31:15 PM

[up]No. You can EP her if you'd like.

[down]Good luck, Scraggle.

Edited by falcontalons on Jan 13th 2020 at 5:51:46 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#198417: Jan 13th 2020 at 5:38:51 PM

Gonna take an absence here, longer than the usual. Need some time to let recent RL stuff sink on.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198419: Jan 13th 2020 at 5:46:39 PM

Good luck scraggle. Hope things turn out well.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#198420: Jan 13th 2020 at 5:53:52 PM

[tup] Warlock

I only brought up Jerkov and the infamous hotdog mission because it was disturbing to me. Like, forcing people into a grinder as you hear them scream... it may be for black comedy, but I was seriously disturb by it. It's really the screams and cries, those were horrifying.

Good luck Scrags

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Jan 13th 2020 at 5:59:08 AM

"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#198422: Jan 13th 2020 at 6:04:59 PM

Sorry to hear that Scraggle. Hope it all works out.

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#198424: Jan 13th 2020 at 6:13:48 PM

[tup] Warlock

I wish you the best of luck, Scraggle.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 13th 2020 at 6:13:57 AM

"No running in the halls!"
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#198425: Jan 13th 2020 at 6:29:08 PM

Uhh, about Sirin, I found these tropes on the character page:

  • Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Sirin might be a tyrannical little girl, but she shows a lot of affection for Benares, even naming her after one of her dead friends. When Benares is mortally wounded and goes back to being a mindless Honkai beast, Sirin, who is trapped in the Lotus-Eater Machine she created for Siegfried and Cecilia, feels her subordinate's demise and immediately snaps out of the dream, enraged that Benares was killed while Sirin was absent.
  • Heel Realization: While trapped in the dream she had trapped Siegfried and Cecilia, she started having doubts about her role after experiencing how a loving family feels like. Sadly, it was around this time that Benares gets killed, and Sirin is so distraught that she renounces her doubts and believes that they were trying to distract her so that they could kill her friend.
  • I Just Want to Be Loved: Sirin may deny it, but she unconsciously wishes for a normal, happy family life that she hardly had the opportunity to live. When she drags Siegfried and Cecilia into a dream world made by Fenghuang Down's feathers, she's frustrated to find that they are enjoying themselves with a happy family life, and starts wavering once she inserts herself into the dream world. Her final moments are spent in Cecilia's loving embrace, who laments that the dream world was the only opportunity she had to be Sirin's mother figure. It is precisely Sirin's feelings and desire to see Cecilia again that manage to make K-423, the playable Kiana Kaslana, a functional clone with the Herrscher's consciousness.
  • Tragic Villain: Sirin lost everyone she has ever loved and suffered so much at the hands of the scientists from the Schicksal organization that she came to believe that all humans were rotten deep down and didn't deserve to live. While this doesn't excuse her actions, it at least makes her sympathetic. Plus, the fact that she was the reincarnation of the Herrscher of the Void practically meant that she was pretty much doomed to turn evil right since birth.

And these are just a few. In short, [tdown] Sirin, obvious non-keeper.

Now, Herrscher of the End/God Kiana and the Honkai God, on the other hand, may be better candidates.

Edited by MasterN on Jan 13th 2020 at 6:29:30 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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