During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The wifi here sucks
Abstain on Stryker. The fact that it came out after X-2 makes me lean no since the writers should have been taking stuff from that film into account, but the fact that the series has so many continuity flubs makes me question if the writers paid attention to that sort of stuff.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This is true. But many movie/game writers like to ass-wave stuff because they forget stuff. Either due to rushing the script or stupidity. So they just tell the viewers "Shut up. Turn off your brain. It's fiction."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Switching to abstain on Stryker, because this continuity issue honestly sounds like too much of a headache to deal with.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Gentle Laborer
@ACW Good, I'll edit the entry a bit to remove "Influencing both the Murder House and Hotel Cortez". Cordelia Goode described them as "hellmouths" but, well, we never get to see Satan in those places, so there's not enough concrete evidence. In contrast, the Antichrist was born at the Murder House back in Season 1, Satan didn't appear but that's because he was only introduced in the next season.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 9th 2019 at 3:51:16 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Looks like we now have 1 more pothole to play with, but I'll keep that open in case he reappears.
Edited by ACW on Dec 8th 2019 at 6:07:20 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Hagen and Katherine
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The batch. Georgie's duo goes next week.
The MILF Virus
Hagen, Katherine and Stryker. Thing is, the game seems to be different enough from other sources that I can treat it as its own thing. I mean at this point the continuity is too weird that I'll just act like it's a stand alone. Maybe it wasn't what it was intended to be, but it certainly feels more like it.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Dec 8th 2019 at 4:27:21 AM
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
I think it's best to abandon any prospect for now, as whatever HI 3 character that might be on Elfen's to-do list wouldn't make the cut anyway. If you have any questions, they can be answered by the respective forum
Sorry this took so long, been busy.
- Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Detonation: Phil Maxwell is the film's main antagonist and Iris's father. Pretending to be a well meaning scientist, Maxwell would secretly create his daughter to be the ultimate soldier to profit off of in wars all over space. When the project to restore Eltria, Maxwell has the entire population of the colony brutally gunned down. When confronted by Iris's sister figure Yuri, he reveals he's already infected her with his Formula system to make her another weapon he can exploit. When she manages to kill him regardless, he tricks Iris into trying to kill Yuri. Having backed himself up inside Iris, he manipulates her into controlling Yuri as a weapon and beginning to convert Earth into more weapons he can exploit for his own selfish ends. Fully resurrecting, he controls Iris and Yuri to fight their friends against their will, fully conscious the entire time. When Nanoha challenges him, he seeks to do the same to her. When finally defeated, Maxwell attempts to vaporize the city with a Kill Sat purely out of spite.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Found another unapproved Complete Monster pothole, this time on the Heartwarming page for Dragon Ball Z. Removed the pothole and linked to the thread.
- During Goku and Slug's fight in the Lord Slug movie, Goku manages to transform into a pseudo form of Super Saiyan. With his newfound power, Goku easily dominates Slug. However, once Slug reveals his Namekian nature by removing his helmet Goku's newfound power fades away almost instantly from his shock. Goku then tries to talk Slug down, even telling him outright that he doesn't want to hurt him. Just shows how much of an All-Loving Hero Goku is, considering Slug had already proved himself to be a Complete Monster.
I'd say anybody is free to do an EP on Slug to see if he counts, but I think Dragon Ball is one of those franchises that's been well-covered at this point.
Discussion of the ridiculous DBZ heinousness standard once produced a statement that I still laugh at to this day note , so if this character is not already up odds are he fails it.
I thought sharks were my friends.
@ Ano, not even Herrscher of the Void? Elfen made her seem like the crowning jewel. Any reason she doesn't count?
Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Dec 8th 2019 at 6:23:08 AM
RIP KissAnime.
Showtime!
She had agency issues, iirc, and I think we found out that Elfen was downplaying them to a degree
I thought sharks were my friends.
That reminds me. I know it's been decided that non-sentient animals don't affect the heinous standard, but what about sapient villains who nevertheless have moral agency issues? For example, Aku from Samurai Jack. Does he still affect the heinous standard despite the moral agency problem?
RIP KissAnime.
Lizzid people!
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
personally I say no but generally it's a yes.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Actually, it was Herrschers of the Erosion that Elfen EP-ed. Herrscher of the Void is another gal entirely. Her arc is still not done, as far as I know, so she is one of those wait-and-see cases.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Exactly. I asked because she wasn't EPed yet since Elfen never got around to it.
RIP KissAnime.
About Honkai Impact 3rd, there's quite a lot of characters from that listed on the Villains wiki's approved evil, and I just feel weird how one wiki considers them C Ms while we most likely don't.
Also, I kinda want to do a ratio to see how many C Ms they have listed correspond to how many we have listed
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 8th 2019 at 8:02:44 AM
Lizzid people!
They have a different set of standards. This was already explained so no need to dwell on that.
Eh, I just thought i was interesting to think about
Goku Black
New Dracula ep.
Whats the work?
Dracula's Demeter by Doug Lamoreux.
July, 1897, the Russian schooner, Demeter, set sail from Varna. Privately chartered by a Transylvanian nobleman, her cargo consisted of fifty oblong wooden boxes partially filled with earth. A month later, in the midst of a raging storm, the derelict Demeter ran aground in Whitby, England, her crew missing save for her captain, who was tied to the ship's wheel with a crucifix in his lifeless hands. The only living thing aboard was a huge dog that escaped into the night.
Bram Stoker, in his classic 'Dracula', with a few cryptic entries in an unnamed captain's journal, offered scant hints regarding the terrifying sea voyage that brought the vampire king from his dried up homeland to the blood-rich London. Never, until now, has the whole mind-rending story been told.
The story of Trevor Harrington, a British scholar and fugitive. Of Swales, the old Scot cook, who deceives their commander, but knows a good deal "aboon grims and boh-ghosts". Of Ekaterina Gabor, a beautiful Romanian who follows her lover to sea by stowing away. Of Captain Nikilov, fighting for his ship and crew while something evil, more virulent than the black plague, decimates their number. Of Demeter herself, named for the Greek goddess of renewal, lost and tossed on an unforgiving sea. And of Count Dracula, at rest in Demeter's dark hold until the unintended actions of her crew resurrect the vampire and his unquenchable bloodlust
Who is Count Dracula
Dracula has gotten bored off Translyvania, the land does feed his hunger but he wants more. So after the business of screwing with Jonathon Harker, he decides to conquer England due to the empire it would allow him control over 1/3rd of the world under his vampiric control. Through this he uses his powers to corrupt Lucy Wsterna and Renfeld from across the Atlantic to turn them into harbingers when he gets there due to them being well....of the weak minded that their highly suspictible to him.
Anyway he's recruited some of his followers to transport him onboard the Demeter with the fifty boxes of earth from his homeland. Now the current voyage is going well, untill he smells female menstrual blood from Ekaterina. He uh becomes overwhelmed with lust at the idea of an actual female onboard that he can simply not help himself and turns into most to escape. He comes across a random sailor in his mist form and enters through his nostrils, flowing into his lungs through his heart and all across the man's circulatory system in an executing process. He then reforms into human form, blowing up the dude from the inside (This is uh unique.....).
Anyway he bites Ekaterina which allows him to start to corrupt her and bend her to his creepy whimes. Harrington finds her and he's interrupted and tries to recuperate her. Anyway Drac is patient, he would love to just kill the entire crew and size her but he doesn't know how to sail so that would doom him. So he needs to wait till their closer, that said he's kinda a dick and is bored of the prendre of a random sailor snoring at his cabin hold SO uses his powers to summon a deadly storm (calculated go be just enough to keep everyone on their toes but not actually sink it). Anyway as they get closer he starts to pick of the few dozen crew onboard and dumps their bodies overboard. Including one sad case of a man who'd come onboard as he wanted to see his father who was dying for the last time as well as his pregnant daughter give birth.
When the first mate comes to the hold in search of the vampire as the cast have becomes suspicious, he unleashes venous sliders on the man who slowly suck him dry and then cocoon him. Anyway he finds Ekaterina and fully bends her to his will, mind controlling her into sleeping with him and then transforming her fully into a vampire.
Harrington decided to take on Dracula in the hold, he has a fire starter and is fine with burning the ship down if it means To stop this minster. The two engage and Drac turns into a wolf. Harrington gets in some good knocks but he's just sadly outclassed. Drac brings him to his knees and then forces a mind controlled Ekaterina to strangle him to death while he sees. Forcing him to watch his own love interest kill him. He then dumps the body overboard.
Anyway now against the captain Niklov. The two fight with Niklov using his rosary to beat them back but he becomes to scared despite wanting to save the girl and runs.
Dracula well decides that well things gave run their course with Ekaterina.
Dracula smiled in spite of himself. “You are already dead. You are beyond death.”
“But I feel like I’m dying.”
“The cross,” he said, “left atop your box all day, prevented your wounds healing.”
“Will I heal now?”
“In time. Were I to allow it.”
She gasped against the pain, holding him tightly. “I do not understand.”
“You are a delectable little toy.” The vampire smiled cruelly. “But I have many plans for when this ship reaches England. None of which include you.
“I love you. I am yours.”
Dracula chuckled, then roared with laughter. He set her bare feet upon the deck and, supporting her weight, stood her against the pinrail. “Companionship… a pleasure, but always a fleeting one.
Anger flashed in her eyes driving the pain, temporarily, from them. She'grabbed the rail to brace herself. “You don’t want me?”
“I cannot use you. Still, to show you that I too can love, I offer you something I have never offered another in all these many centuries…”
Breathless anticipation took over, the wounded vampiress was wide-eyed “You offer?”
“My pity.” He stroked her hair, watching the anger flash in her eyes, and'allowed his hand to trail to the nape of her neck. “And a second, even more rare gift… my mercy.” He snatched her throat with lightning speed. (Sonquickly she hadn’t even time to gasp). “I shall not miss you,”
Dracula told her. “But I will most certainly remember you.” Showing neither hesitation nor emotion, he lifted her off the deck and snapped her neck. Her lithe body went limp as a rag doll. Her face was still alive, her eyes blinking, her protruding tongue lolling to one side, a stuttering gasp escaping her lips in an unsuccessful attempt to talk – or perhaps to scream.
He grabbed a handful of her flowing dress with his free hand, bunched it at her knees and lifted her over the gunwale. Then he dangled her above the churning North Sea like a goose in a shop window. “We are undead,” he told her. “We cannot die. But we can be destroyed. This is the giftt I now give you.”
He dropped her with a splash. The living water of the cold North Sea churned around her as if she’d been dumped into a vat of acid.
Anyway he finds Niklov bundled in a correctness the ships wheel.
Dracula stared a threat at the captain. “Like your crew,” he said, “her usefulness was behind her.” He punctuated the remark by washing his hands in the air.
Anyway Drac vampirizes Nilovic and forced hhim on the ships wheel to carry them the last way with him lashed on the whell. He kills him when they reach shore and Drac takes his leave with renfeld and Lucy. Totally victorious. At least till tHe gets staked by van helsing in the novel proper. But hey victories are fleeting.
In a work that's an interquel to the original novel. Nah.
Other redeeming qualities?
Nothing for the most part execute a few weird passages I want to bring to your attention.
And now a new feeling! The recent revelation of a woman aboard the vessel had aroused in him… something he had not felt or thought of in generations. An image of his wives, behind at Castle Dracula, flashed in his mind and the words of one in particular, spoken recently in spite, echoed in his ears… He’d just returned to the castle with their… sustenance. He threw the bag upon the floor where a gasp and low wail escaped as it writhed with its living contents. Angry as he was, Dracula paid it no further attention. He found them – all three of his women – in a room they did not belong, doing that which he had forbidden; closing in on Harker, intent upon drinking his blood. He’d stopped them, of course, denying their hoped-for kisses. Then Marishka, his fair-haired treasure, with her usual laugh of ribald coquetry, leveled her accusation. “You yourself never loved. You never love!” The others joined her, filling the room with their mirthless laughter. Gorgeous, ageless maidens, soulless fiends, taking pleasure in his pain. But he had loved and told them so. Long ago and far away, he had loved – deeply. Before that love, leading to that love, he had lusted. Now, starving for life-giving blood, insanely lusting for the female creature here and now aboard the ship, he knew these were not dreams (for vampires do not dream). They were all-consuming desires. In his box, in the dark of the forehold, Dracula felt the overwhelming, undeniable ache… For, indeed, one lust fed another.
Now this is interesting admirably. But it's also said in connection to him desiring to corrupt and sexually assault a random women out of naked lust while already expanding his tastes to mina harker and Lucy. There are implications in the novel that they may also have started off like Ekaterina where he twisted them to his will. It's just lust, not love plain and simple. He never speaks of them with genuine love and even admits that relationships are a pleasure he grows bored of them after awihle as showed by the final fate of Ekaterina.
Heinous standard?
Lots of nasty gruesome murders over and entire Crew. Plus the sheDr cruelty of what he pulled in Ekaterina, Harrington and Niklov easily plummets him over the baseline.
Conclusion?
Hes a keeper in my book.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Count Dracula.
I added Satan to the AHS page, which is on hold for now.
You know, whether we cut Stanley or not, we DEFINITELY need a new image.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts