During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gentle Laborer
Yeah... Thank you for bringing more info on Herrscher, we already acknowledged Elfen's mistake, but at this point it seems like your posts are becoming increasingly more accusatory and "hostile" in nature, that's unnecessary and it's kinda making me uncomfortable tbh...
Showtime!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Gaga and Another firefly
We have support to cut Herr. Let's move on it.
Anyway, one effortpost bombed today (Robert Quinlan from Lab Rats has just enough ambiguity about him to make me wary of posting him)... let's try one 43100 recommended, instead!
What's the setting?
Goth is a five-chapter manga that 43's already gotten a candidate up from. Itsuki Kamiyama is a disturbed, emotionally detached kid who goes through his life faking smiles and cheer to masquerade his twisted fascination with morbid death. One fellow girl, the stringy black haired student Morino, cracks through his facade and the two sort of become a twisted pair of kid detectives.
From the first chapter is Mr. Shinohara.
Who is Mr. Shinohara? What has he done?
Kamiyama's chemistry teacher, seemingly a gentle, bespectacled man, Shinohara has much darker fixations—like Kamiyama himself, except he acts on his violent impulses. Shinohara has a twisted fetish for hands, and to this end has cut off the hands off living victims. Men, women, children, animals? Doesn't matter. Seven people have had their hands hacked off by Shinohara, who keeps them in a fridge full of them for his sexual fantasies. None of the victims are killed, but left mutilated and handless for the rest of their lives.
This isn't enough for him. Shinohara continues to hunt for victims, kidnapping a local celebrity and officially graduating to murder, savagely killing her to take her hands for himself. Kamiyama and Morino are on the case when Shinohara accidentally lets slip a minor detail (a puppet whose hand he cut off) that tips off Kamiyama, who intrudes into his house and takes all his hands. Shinohara freaks, before he puts together Morino's involved... and he promptly decides to kill her on the spot, attempting to "crush her like a tomato" before taking her hands. Shinohara is stopped, exposed, and arrested.
Any mitigating factors?
So, Nev waited on this one, and I'm unsure myself, because for a five-chapter manga we get a number of nasty villains. The villain from the fourth and fifth chapters doesn't really do enough to be worth bringing up directly, but Shinohara's main competition is twofold:
- A cafe manager who mutilates three women to death and attempts a fourth, who already counts
- A Sympathetic Murderer tormented by his own urges who buries two people alive, one of whom is a kid
Shinohara technically has more victims than the both of them combined. The issue he is he only kills one person, attempts another murder, with the rest of his victims instead "merely" being left mutilated and handicapped. I've discussed this with a few people and I think that comes down to a very subjective heinous standard question that I'll leave for the thread.
Shinohara hacks off the hands a bunch of people—children included, and even a few animals for that extra dick flavoring—which leads to permanent, traumatizing disfigurement, but kills less people overall than the other killers. The other serial killers aren't killing so many people it disqualifies him on the spot, and I'd argue his real competition is the cafe manager who has three godawful deaths on his conscience, but I'll leave the matter to everyone.
Conclusion?
What say we? Serial dismemberment with a few actual dead bodies enough when we're looking at a few other murderers enough in this setting?
As we discussed when I brought this one to you, I think the horror he puts his still living victims is enough. While the cafe manager is a fucking lunatic himself, the teacher has the largest number of victims affected as well.
Agreed totally. Yes there.
to Shinohara.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Shinohara
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Firefly and Shinohara.
Elfen hasn't been active in three days, and it's not fair for the rest of us to wait. Cut Herrscher.
RIP KissAnime.
Lizzid people!
Shinohara
Gentle Laborer
Oh man, Goth is one of my all-time favorites, I'll lean on Shinohara. A shame that Takami, the last Arc Villain, completely fails the heinous standard... He would have made a great contrast to Kamiyama as his Evil Counterpart ala Dexter and Brian, such an underwhelming Final Boss...
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Firefly and Shinohara.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Shinohara.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Shimohara
Self-Declared King of Everything
to Shinohara.
to Shinohara.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
to Seiko Shinohara.
As promised, here's our next Tweeny Witches candidate. I'm sorry to have kept you waiting for a long time due to my illness.
What is the work?
Tweeny Witches: The Adventures is an episodic OVA spin-off of the underrated Magical Girl anime series Tweeny Witches. Some episodes are Lighter and Softer, while others are as serious as the original series.
Belonging to the latter category, "The Ice Witch and the Dragon of Fire and Ice" tells the story of Gana (now exclusively known as the Grand Master of Witches) from 2 centuries ago. When she was traveling alone to train herself as a witch, she adopted Hanamomo as her younger sister at the request of the girl's dead mother. Along with Kunetke and Tole, the sisters received an order from the previous grand master to defeat an evil dragon that froze everything.
And in a world where a child scout with a Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, a matricidal former Pirate, and a loyal commander of A Nazi by Any Other Name all have redeeming qualities, the dragon managed to set herself apart even from the most heinous character of the franchise.
Who is the Ice Witch?
The Ice Witch appeared in the eastern land of Blizzard Forest as the Dragon of Fire and Ice (a Non-Indicative Name since she only used ice powers), seeking to Take Over the World as the strongest being. In the backstory, she froze the land and her many foes (who were all sent by the previous grand master), the latter with her cursed blizzard.
As the strongest witches in the Magical Realm, Gana and her companions went on the mission, only to find Kunetke frozen the next morning even though they had made five magical barriers over their camp. When the remaining witches reached Blizzard Castle, the Ice Witch descended from the thundering sky. After freezing Tole as well, she stabbed Hanamomo with an icicle from her mouth.
Possessing the girl, the Ice Witch revealed to Gana that she kept Kunetke and Tole alive as hostages and that her host would die if the icicle was forcibly removed. She promised to spare all Gana's companions as long as Gana abandoned her Magic Wand and gave the dragon a Cannibalism Superpower. After Gana did as the Ice Witch said, the icicle left Hanamomo, who found Tole unfrozen. The Ice Witch, however, possessed Hanamomo again, sporting a Slasher Smile as she tried to stab Tole in the back. Gana managed to save both herself and her remaining companions as her spell immobilized the Ice Witch, who then fell and got stabbed by the top of Blizzard Castle.
Once a flash of lightning fell, however, the dragon disappeared. Returning in humanoid form somehow, the Ice Witch decided to seal Gana away as a last resort. Gana and her remaining companions were so tired in the previous battle that they could barely defend themselves from the Ice Witch's ice breath. And their mission had a Bittersweet Ending when Hanamomo burned the Ice Witch (whom Gana and Tole distracted beforehand at her suggestion) from the inside, slaying the evil dragon for good at the price of her own life.
Heinousness?
She's not as destructive as Grande and Jestor. That said, she succeeded in standing out as she froze the land and many people, possessed the young girl she stabbed with something that would kill her host body if forcibly removed, and attempted to gain a literal Cannibalism Superpower, all in order to Take Over the World as the strongest being. For comparison:
- Sheila can only keep some warlock cavalrymen frozen for a few moments.
- Even when programmed to obey Sigma, Sheila retains her mind enough to be able to use telepathy.
- Grande swallowed his Honest Advisor whole in front of the latter's young son, Sigma, simply for opposing the use of dark magic. His fatally Bad Boss act is as unique as the Ice Witch's crimes, so neither of the villains can disqualify each other.
- Black Tohma only steals Arusu's magic "to become free", and she later promises to restore it if the human girl unseals the original Tohma.
Mitigating factors?
She briefly kept her promise to Gana, letting Hanamomo find Tole unfrozen. But given her line about how they would live under her rule and the fact that she possessed Hanamomo again in an attempt to stab Tole in the back, I don't think it holds up.
Conclusion?
Personally, I say . Thoughts?
Edited by IukaSylvie on Oct 23rd 2019 at 10:00:14 PM
Ice Witch
to the Ice witch
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Ice Witch
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
As we discussed, sure to the Ice Witch. Yes to Mr. Shinohara as well.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Goku Black
firefly, Shinomaru and ice witch
Just cut Herscheer we have more then enough consensus.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Ice Witch.
RIP KissAnime.
Would any of the characters in the Purge franchise count?
Did Elfen ever make a response to that? I recall that's what we were waiting for.
Also, Zero offense intended. But there was no need to talk about all that stuff with Elfen, your previous posts you linked too already made that point clear and you could have just talked about that mitigating factor.
Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 20th 2019 at 7:44:53 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here