During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ok, one I've been thinking about doing for a while is:
Who Is She
- Vanessa, a seemingly normal woman living in Goshen Falls who is actually a Wicked Witch, from The Goosebumps book Chicken Chicken
What Is She Like?
- She at first seems like a nice enough, if kind of weird woman, who, for whatever reason, the kids of Goshen Falls like to play pranks on. One such kid is Cole, who is Crystal's (the main character) little brother. Crystal herself doesn't approve and tries to get him to stop, to no avail. Anyways, at one point Crystal, Cole, and Cole's friend Anthony are walking to the grocery store and decide to have an egg tossing game. This eventually leads to a fight and all three of them bump into Vanessa by mistake. When Crystal and Cole don't apologize right away, she just says "chicken chicken". This actually turns out to be a curse which slowly turns the kids into chickens. While this may sound funny on paper, the curse turns out to work very slowly and subjects the kids to a lot of Body Horror, such as having their eyes move to the sides of their heads, their lips get hard and beak like, and they start growing feathers which are painful to remove and leave bleeding open wounds. At one point they confront Vanessa and ask her to remove the curse, she says she can't, which turns out to be a total lie she said seemingly just to be cruel. At the end they convince her to turn them back into normal by writing a thank you note (more on that later.) Things seem to be back to normal only for her to say "pig pig" when the kids burp, at which point the book ends.
Does She Have Any Redeeming Traits?
- The only vaugely nice thing she does is remove the curse and offer them some soda, which needless to say isn't much (if you were beating someone to death and then stopped, does that make you not a bad guy.)
Is She Bad Enough
- I would say definitely, while most of the villains seek to hurt kids (as all of the protagonists are kids), the way the curse works seems particularly cruel and unusual, as noted above. Also, while Cole did have a habit of trying to play pranks on her, Crystal was completely innocent (and quite a Nice Girl for the most part), as she was just trying to break up a fight and bumped into Vanessa by mistake, not to mention Vanessa put a curse on them before they even had a chance to apologize (and didn't even bother with saying something like "apologize or else"). Making things worse, she thinks she is completely justified in doing what she did and only removes the curse because the kids wrote a note thanking her for torturing them mentally and physically with a curse, which just shows what a petty, sadistic tyrant she really is.
Verdict Hell ya
@enperors and delphox
Technically we have a sort of demo focusing on a small arc in the storyline. I decided to treat this as a deltarune sort of situation where I discuss the qualifiers in the demo and was given the go ahead by ACW
Edited by xie323 on Oct 9th 2019 at 10:32:58 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Keeping my Nay. Abstain on Vanessa.
RIP KissAnime.
No to Vanessa. The product of bad writing, and while she's awful she doesn't breach the heinous standard of the series and she can be reasoned with. When your CM is so thrilled by a thank-you note she removes a curse, even if she reapplies it after, she's probably not a keeper.
And no there. A demo that will become a new game...not feeling it yet. Better to wait
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 9th 2019 at 10:36:20 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Vanessa. She doesn't do anything that pushes her into Complete Monster territory. And no, turning two kids into chickens is nowhere near Complete Monster territory.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Switching to a Nay on Vanessa.
RIP KissAnime.
It's more because of how the transformation works being so horrible. They don't just turn into chickens instantly like a Baleful Polymorph, it's more like a slow mutation with lots of Body Horror.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I might give a weak yes to Oscar. I mean, we do get King of Spades up despite the real game itself is not released according to Toby so I think no issue for Oscar going up. If he doesn't, I could go either way.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Still not heinous enough by Goosebumps.
Goku Black
Vanessa
Goosebumps has a lot of fucked up shit.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I thought sharks were my friends.
I thought the Goosebumps books all took place in their own universes except for direct sequels. They still have to compare heinousness?
Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Oct 9th 2019 at 10:42:07 AM
RIP KissAnime.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Isaac Asimov and Sloane Peterson, to DnD Dragon and Chicken girl.
Vanessa.
Lizzid people!
Vanessa was already proposed and rejected.
@ Delphine
Different universe or not, when they're all part of the same work, they still have to stand out from one another to be a CM. We cut a few candidates from Betrayal at House on the Hill for the same reason.
Now say, if it was a villain from a spin-off of Goosebumps (like HorrorLand) then I think we'd simply judge it by the spin-off's standards as opposed to the main series. Though I'd say Vanessa doesn't cross baseline threshold either way.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Spinoffs huh... Well this should be interesting since I P Md both Cr0w and 43110 regarding one of the works that I reserved and I need to verify the authenticity if its a Stealth Sequel or not. PM me if you want to know what the work is.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 9th 2019 at 10:53:19 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The removing curse part after being grateful from a "thank you" note sounds like a legitmate Pet the Dog. No on Vanessa on that grounds alone.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Errr... Hard no to Vanessa. Even if we don't take in account the mitigating qualities, she's nowhere near heinous enough. Yeah, slowly turning kids into chicken is nasty...
And then what?
I'm not even sure it crosses the Moral Event Horizon (that being said, I have little to no knowledge of the book series). If a CM has done only one thing, it has to be something extremely heinous, much like the beloved Shou Tucker. Here, it isn't even close to be enough.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Oct 9th 2019 at 8:04:12 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Balagos and Vanessa
I have decided to table Dirglewagner and the other TNO EP until release.
Mimic, at this point, you're rehashing the same arguments. That's a pretty clear sign debate had been exhausted.
Troy was voted down and discussion have moved on. Let's not go around in circles, please.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 9th 2019 at 12:21:39 PM
Goku Black
Right quote vote time. So for the Monster.Simon R Green page which would you like for the page quote
Or perhaps
or maybe
I vote for Methuselah. I think Crow Lee had some good ones, but for the sake of getting one up from the three selected, Methuselah's strikes me as the best example of "pure evil with no redeeming qualities."
Why EP something that hasn't been officially released?
And yes to Scraggle's recent Nazi example. That movie sounds interesting.
Edited by emperors on Oct 9th 2019 at 1:27:06 PM
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