During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@ACW Previously? It was Commander Faceless from Karakuri Circus. But now? It's Ellen from The Witch's House. One of the most repulsive and the worst CMs I've ever seen and her actions kind of triggers me on a personal level.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Apr 27th 2019 at 6:24:08 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah yes, Ellen. I believe the first Player Character to be a CM, before "Not Important"; Galvis; and Frieza.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wait, someone from Cars counts?......I missed ALOT!
Don’t forget before Pelley and the Lo L champions that do qualify too wrt player character C Ms.
And we’ve had surprise qualifiers from really lighthearted shows before like the Transformers Robots in Disguise(more specially the dub), Rainbow Brite, and Barnyard.
Edited by xie323 on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:48:16 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The Kaiserreich guy? I didn't know he was playable, but then yes, him too.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Technicially you play as the head of state in hearts of iron iv, EU 4 and Crusader Kings
Edited by xie323 on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:39:25 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Home on the Range? Might you be thinking of Barnyard?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
...since when did Home on the Range have a qualifier? You thinking of Cowboys of Moo Mesa?
Yeah Barnyard.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Axelrod, Zundapp, Sadler and Eberhard
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Just saw Endgame. God that discussion is gonna be fun.
PM me if you want to Discuss
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Wait, fucking Cowboys of Moo Mesa has a CM in it?
Also, yes to the Cars 2 duo
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Apr 27th 2019 at 9:09:39 AM
Messenger from another dimension.
Tentative yes to Cars 2 duo and definite yes to Eric von Eberhard. Late yes to Quinking too.
Also saw Endgame yesterday. Really impressed.
Edited by emperors on Apr 27th 2019 at 9:24:04 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Eric von Eberhard.
Avengers: Endgame?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Now. I've wanted to judge (ha!) this guy since I played Super Robot Wars J and...FINALLY!!!
He really didn't dissapoint. He is such a asshole that I Love to Hate him.
Setting?
Hades Project Zeorymer, but not the Manga (who is unavailable in english, if anyone knows where to find it, please tell me) but rather, the OVA-s (which by the way, are the ones that went to Super Robot Wars).
Set in the near future, a secret feudal monarchy led by an empress and named 'Hau Dragon' uses, as a front, a firm 'International Electronic Brains' and has built a set of eight giant robots, each possessing a power based upon the eight elements of earth, fire, water, air, thunder, mountains, the moon, and the heavens. However, one of them, Zeorymer of the Heavens, has been stolen and the main character, fifteen-year-old Masato Akitsu, is forced into piloting it with a mysterious girl named Miku Himuro.
Who is Masaki Kihara?
The creator of the titular Zeorymer and The Big Bad of the OVA-s. Masaki was a human Mad Scientist that worked alongside the Hau Dragon to create the Zeorymer alongside other mechas that could be piloted only for artificial humans made for it with the hopes to Take Over the World using them.
The trick? Masaki is a egomaniac that made all of them his clones, altered enough to be different persons, but still his clones. Knowing that the Hau Dragon leaders would betray him, Masaki stole the Zeorymer and the embryo, clone of himself, designed to pilot it. Masaki also left a copy of his memories on the Zeorymer itself, hoping that when the embryo piloted it, Masaki would reborn on his body.
Masaki worked with the Japanese goverment and was—as he knew it would be—killed because he knew too much.
15 years later, the clone, now known as Masato Akitsu is retrieved for his adoptive parents, who were just faking it to pilot the Zeorymer and fight against the Hau Dragon.
As Masato has his first fight, he starts to act strangely and becomes more violent. Masaki had reborn, initially is only during fights, but eventually, Masaki starts to take Masato's body even after he left the Zeorymer.
During his fights against the Hakkeshu, the pilots of the Hau Dragon, Masaki ruthlessly exploits their personality flaws to lead them to their deaths, enjoying it and being totally careless about collateral damage.
Later, when fighting against a pilot named Ritsu, he reveals that the reason why all the Hau Dragon pilots are so emotionally unestable is because Masaki designed them to be like that. Masaki admits that it is the truth and reveals himself to Ritsu before killing him as well.
As the leader of the Hau Dragon becomes crazier after losing her allies and loved ones, she sends her remaining pilots to attack randomly in order to force Zeorymer to appear.
But as that happens, Masaki just...ignores it and refuses to pilot it, as Miku, the Robot Girl that Masaki created to help him pilot the Zeorymer begs him to pilot, Masaki says that he was Playing Both Sides and that he merely has to wait until either the Hakkeshu or Masato-as-Masaki gets the opportunity to conquer the world. Masaki is willing to let the world burn to rule over the ashes. During the talk, Masaki also sexually harasses Miku and tries to rape her.
Once Masaki is forced to pilot the Zeorymer, he personally induces another emotional meltdown on the poor Hakkeshu and mocks their feeling towards each other while also rejecting the We Can Rule Together proposition of Saiga before killing all of the Hakkeshu there.
However, once the fight, during which Masaki's control on Masato's body was weakened and confronted, is over...both Masaki and Masato personalities end up fused, resulting in a new personality. The Masaki Kihara inside Masato's body is gone because ultimately, Masaki's memories inside the Zeorymer can't just take over a body that had being developing its own memories during 15 years.
New!Masato is challenged for Empress Yuratei, who discover the horrific truth of her role at hands of her lead scientist, who also had Masaki's memories dormant but was able to overcome them (likely due to the same reason as why Masaki didn't take over Masato's body, too many memories to rewrite all of them).
After Masaki's Memory Gambits failed. Yuratei threatens the world itself but ultimately, all of it was a a Suicide by Cop in which she wants to destroy the last remaining of Masaki's evil, she herself.
Masato kills her and finally, Masaki Kihara is gone.
Heinous Standard?
Holy shit. He easily pass. He is behind all the villains, all the destruction in the series can be attributed to him. He's willing to let the world be destroyed as soon he can rule the remains.
In a personal way? He is easily one of the nastier personal villains that I have proposed. He ensure that his creations become emotional trainwrecks and exploited it, he took over the body of his clone and he tries to rape his other creation and called her a doll, constantly treating her as his property.
Absolute asshole. And I love him for it.
Redeeming traits?
Zero. Masaki was a complete egomaniac who happened to be Properly Paranoid at knowing that he would be betrayed and whose plans caused lots of suffering even after his biological death.
Verdict?
Easy ![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 27th 2019 at 10:09:11 AM
Watch me destroying my country
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
to Masaki.
to Masaki
Gentle Laborer
To the previous bad guys, particularly Dae-su.
Yes to Masaki...also, okay this's been wearing at me for a while and I need to just say it
TBH...i was looking at Ravok's proposal of Syndrome from the Incredibles comic and....okay, I think the reasons for adding him? He's essentially the exact same s the film counterpart and I'm not gonna lie, and this is partly my fault...the reason he was excluded, in the old ways? After some talks with others...it's not holding up with the logic and criteria we now use. The heinousness argument is incredibly thin and his fruedian excuse doesn't hold up at all.
It's not that I think we should cut the comic one, but the fact is? It's the exact same character in a weird loophole, and the "oh, but supervillains tried to do this in a montage"...doesn't really hold weight given all Syndrome really does, upon a rewatch. Frankly? I can't help but think this is one that kind of needs to be revisited and is something of a glaring omission with how we approved the comic one. I feel this is a new argument now, that we haven't quite argued before, so...
Thoughts?
Yes to Masaki and honestly with Syndrome? 100% behind you.
Yeah. This is Loophole Abuse at its finest. It's the reason why I warned Ravok against that post months beforehand, actually.
Now, if anything, that's grounds for me to support Syndrome's inclusion in the film itself. Honestly, every single major reason brought up to strike him? It doesn't match at all with how the criteria's changed and adapted over time. Not heinous enough? That's a joke. His FE? Is a farce. Weird, abstract arguments like "he's technically not as bad as this one dude who was onscreen for five seconds", "he didn't kill the babysitter" and "the death of supers is Played for Laughs in one scene but deadly-serious in another"... really seem to reach to me. There's tons of arguments you could use against all of those.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 27th 2019 at 9:44:03 AM
Can't wait for the Fighting Fantasy EP. Marr can't be the only purely evil figure on Titan can't he?
If it's one of the few books set in the REAL world, I think I know, or have a really good hunch who he is(hint: one of the more recent ones).
Ok I know this is not the place for speculation, but there's a popular theory going on for GOT that I am very concerned about with regards to that could lead to an interesting discussion here. PM me if you want to discuss this.
Edited by xie323 on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:35:56 AM