During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, I won't say who is, but I think Lighty's candidate provides an excellent page quote for a Supernatural page. We've already got Alastair's image. Means TV will need a new image, but that shouldn't be too hard.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'll report in on Lucifer if nothing changes after the episode tonight. There's not much reason to delay when things were settled three weeks ago there.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I'm pretty sure I know who the candidate is.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Big Guy, Anaconda and Raden Parna.
I'm gonna be taking a break from this thread in a bit because it's gonna be a while until I see Endgame. I'll still be popping into the MB thread though if y'all miss me.
to Raden and the Tattoo of Death villains.
What's the work?
Ogre Slayer is a manga by Kei Kusunoki, about an unnamed demon with the appearance of a man whose goal is to kill all demons(or onis) with his sword, Onkirimaru, in order to become a human. My candidate is the demon Ootakemaru, from Chapter 8 of the manga.
Who is he? What does he do?
In the past, Ootakemaru ravaged the world, and was killed and mutilated, with the body parts buried and sealed in different Buddhist temples.
In the present day, 3 of the temples have been broken into and vandalized in the same week, with the statues having been sliced open. In a quiet town, several of the residents(16) are suffering from memory loss, and all of them vividly remember a demon chasing and trying to eat them. A reporter named Sae Gotou investigating this goes to the temple which has not been vandalized, where a monk shows the reporter the statues he has set up around the entrances so that no demon can get inside. He explains that a demon who was trying to resurrect Ootakemaru is the culprit.
The protagonist reaches the temple and attempts to go inside, but the statues hold him off since he is a demon. He reveals that he was the one who sliced open the statues, in order to obtain all of Ootakemaru's body parts so that he could fight and kill him. He also reveals that the residents who lost their memories were tortured with nightmares by Ootakemaru, so that he could eat their souls. Sae throws aside one of the statues so that he can get inside, despite the monk's warnings, and the protagonist manages to obtain the final body part and successfully resurrect Ootakemaru.
Once revived, Ootakemaru announces his intent to wreck havoc across the face of the Earth again("burn the surface of this Earth", in his words), as he has done previously, and kills the monk by dissolving him. Next, he plans to either rape or eat Sae, but the protagonist steps in to fight him. During the battle, Ootakemaru throws the protagonist's sword into his stomach, mocking him for being nothing more than "a mere human" without the sword, but the protagonist gets back up, declaring that the sword is a part of him, and kills him.
Heinous standard?
His torture is unique for the setting, and he seems to want to kill much of humanity, while most demons only kill a few(1-4) people. The problem is that the way he phrases it may be too vague, but Ogre Slayer isn't exactly a fluffy children's manga, so it may be enough.
Mitigating qualities? Freudian Excuse?
None.
Conclusion?
I'm leaning , but he may not pass the standards.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Well, his "burning the surface of the Earth" isn't really shown in a flashback, but we do see photographs of the residents and we see a few of the traumatized residents, as well as one being tormented by a nightmare in a flashback. As I said, all of the other villains have really small bodycounts(1-4 people).
Edited by falcontalons on Apr 25th 2019 at 4:29:04 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm unsure. Are his past acts shown in flashbacks? How bad are the other villains?
EDIT: I'll give a weak yes for now then.
Edited by ACW on Apr 25th 2019 at 7:45:16 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Leaning on Ootakemaru.
The Unknown Unknown
Big Guy, Anacondo, and Raden.
Also, a KH3 manga was announced for serialization. So, if anyone would like to hope for Adaptational Villainy of Master Xehanort, here's your last chance.
Edited by erazor0707 on Apr 25th 2019 at 5:30:15 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I just entered the theatre for Avengers: Endgame. The show is not for another half hour and house is already packed.
I should probably be off my phone.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
King Robert from A Night in Terror Tower (1995) and Return to Terror Tower (1998) by R. L. Stine
Who They Are: Robert was the unnamed and unseen Greater-Scope Villain of A Night in Terror Tower. He appeared in-person (and was given a name) in Return to Terror Tower.
The medieval kingdom of York was prosperous until its benevolent king and his wife were assassinated by the king's brother, Robert. After taking the throne, Robert used a magic amber amulet to hypnotize the entire royal court into serving him, with it being implied that the royals, the servants, the soldiers, etc. are all fully aware in their brainwashed state, but unable to stop themselves from doing Robert's bidding. Robert has his enthralled followers, including the Lord High Executioner, lock the rightful heirs to the throne—twelve year-old Princess Susannah and her ten year-old brother Prince Edward—away in his dungeon's Terror Tower. The entrance to the tower is unguarded, but also cursed so that any unauthorized person who tries to enter it is turned to stone, which is why it is surrounded by dozens of statues with horrified expressions on their faces. Lord Worcester, a friend of the king and queen, tried to oppose Robert and save the children, but Robert and the Executioner murdered him, and now his ghost (which Robert does not even recognize) haunts the castle, unable to pass on until Robert is deposed.
Under Robert's rule, York descends into squalor; the town is routinely ransacked by Robert's brainwashed soldiers, who take all of the food, and abuse the peasantry (a pair of knights are at one point shown drop kicking a farmer's chickens into the moat, which is inhabited by a tentacled monster that is capable of eating people). Suspected dissenters and anyone who is unable to pay Robert's gratuitously high taxes (which he lives lavishly on) are hauled off to the dungeons, tortured (via the Rack, thumbscrews, spiked handcuffs, etc.) and then either beheaded or simply left there. While being dragged through the prison in the first book, Sue notices that it is overcrowded with tortured, emaciated and largely lifeless peasants, including children and even babies. In the sequel, an inmate mentions that they get thrown scraps (if that) once a week.
What They Do: Eventually deciding that Eddie and Sue were threats to his rule, Robert ordered the Executioner to smother them. Morgred, a local magician who is sympathetic to the children, helps them escape and brings them to a nearby abbey, where he uses three magical stones to send them to the future, replacing their memories with new false ones that will hopefully help them adjust to life in the twentieth century. The Executioner witnessed this and, under Robert's orders, uses the three stones to travel to the future to recapture Eddie and Sue. Robert forces Morgred to serve him under threat of torture and a painful death; Morgred reluctantly agrees to be Robert's lackey since, if he's dead, he'll no longer be able to try and help the suffering peasantry any way that he can.
The first novel ends with Eddie and Sue escaping back to the future, this time with Morgred, who, posing as their father, becomes a history professor and moves them and himself to the United States.
Return to Terror Tower has Eddie, Sue and the Player Character (who turns out to be the siblings' cousin, who was brought forward in time at some point) return to medieval York to try and dethrone Robert. The protagonist is knocked out by the trip, and while they recover, Eddie and Sue go off to gather supplies, only to be captured by Robert's men after hiding one of the magic stones with a band of rebels, and another in a dragon's den. Robert has the children put in Terror Tower, and begrudgingly staves off killing them because he wants all three of the magic stones, and they only had one on them. As the player (helped by people like the rebels and Worcester's ghost) gathers the hidden stones and other items needed to free the siblings and deal with Robert, they can be subjected numerous bad endings, most of which involve being either imprisoned, enslaved (complete with lashing) or torture-murdered by Robert's men and the Executioner. In what's arguably the worst ending, Robert takes the gathered stones, has the freed Eddie and Sue dragged off to be executed, and torments the protagonist by forcing them to dance around the courtroom while the guards take swipes at them with their swords, eventually having them run the player through when they begin to succumb to exhaustion.
In the good ending, the trio break into Robert's throne room and swipe his amulet, which has the effect of freeing everyone (including the Executioner) from his control. As the people rejoice over their restored freedom and the return of the rightful heirs, Robert is hauled off to Terror Tower.
Heinousness: He's a greedy, familicidal tyrant with a 0% Approval Rating, which he rectified by using magic to brainwash everyone in the royal court, turning them all into brutal enforcers who he has pillage and terrorize the peasants, who get locked up, tortured and sometimes executed for crimes like speaking out against him or being unable to pay his gratuitously high taxes; as the first book showed, not even children and infants were exempt from imprisonment. Once they went to the future, Eddie and Sue were effectively dead in the past and no longer a threat to him, but that was not enough for Robert, who went out his way to have them dragged back to him so that they could be gotten rid of on his terms. And then there's things like letting people be permanently turned to stone.
Mitigating Factors: Return to Terror Tower was a Choose Your Own Adventure book, but Robert is villainous in all possible story branches and outcomes, and there was only one good ending that we can presume is the canonical one.
to King Robert.
King Robert.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Apr 25th 2019 at 6:10:19 AM
to King Robert.
to Ootakemaru and Robert.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Ootakemaru and King Robert.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Ootakemaru and Robert
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Ootakemaru and Robert
Shin Megami Tensei IV
King Robert (of the House Baratheon, the First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm.)
Ootakemaru
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Ootakemaru
And a to King Bob.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 25th 2019 at 8:26:24 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
to Ootakemaru
fine.