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Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

edited 7th Nov '17 9:59:04 AM by Fighteer

Beast from Ontario, Canada Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:23:18 PM

Unsure on the two versions of God. Copy and pasting isn't exactly trustworthy and at best I'd advise using wikis to verify information, to make sure you don't miss anything after watching/reading/playing a work.

When half the universe is ashes, you have my premission to die.
KazuyaProta Dancing All Night For The Greater Good!!! from Dal'yth Relationship Status: Married to the job
Dancing All Night For The Greater Good!!!
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:25:56 PM

It's actually part of YHVH's character that he himself does as little as possible so things don't trace back to him. There's also been cases where beings claiming to be acting in his name really aren't and vice versa, and it's just always really ambiguous what comes from him himself and what doesn't.

Yes, Merkabah and Lucifer were split from Satan for the purpose of causing the war. Here's the thing, though - they themselves aren't even aware of this, making their actions effectively their own.

I'm not denying their responsability for their individual. But they were created to effectively do it, they are unaware of the fact that their conflict is meant to be eternal, YHVH genuinely bears responsability for the war and partially their individual actions.

And while they're ambiguity of the extent of YHVH actions in most games, IVA is pretty direct with the whole fact that YHVH is to blame for the current state of the world.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 9th 2018 at 9:29:47 AM

Space Anime Fish Xenos >>>>>>>>> Gothic Gue'la
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: In my bunk
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:28:08 PM

I am fine discussing this, but only after it's personally verified.

Aug 9th 2018 at 7:28:21 PM

Fallout was fantastic and I know the discussion is tomorrow, but please PM me to discuss!

43110 36 styles of danger from the Brooklyn zoo Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
36 styles of danger
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:35:55 PM

No to both YHWH versions and letís see to it we donít have a repeat here ever.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
lrrose Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:40:17 PM

Switching my votes on the YHV Hs to no

Edited by lrrose on Aug 9th 2018 at 10:39:51 AM

Live long and prosper
Awesomekid42 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:42:50 PM

[tdown] To Megami Tensei 2 version of YHVH. Keeping my [tup] to Apocalypse though...albeit more tentatively.

Aug 9th 2018 at 8:28:31 PM

I seem to recall us upvoting Belberith from Devil Survivor despite him not really doing much onscreen. Didn't we also upvote the Radiance from Hollow Knight despite her not doing much onscreen, because she did a lot in the backstory?

HamburgerTime Glimmer of civilization. from The Former Republic of Zubrowka Relationship Status: I know
Glimmer of civilization.
Aug 9th 2018 at 8:37:03 PM

I just don't think Apocalypse YHVH is a good fit for several reasons, but if you think he counts I can't change your opinion.

BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE
Aug 9th 2018 at 8:43:50 PM

Gonna be dropping out of the forum until the Mission Impossible discussion ends. Trying to watch it spoiler-free on Saturday. See y'all later. grin

Aug 9th 2018 at 8:51:36 PM

Believe me when I say that you will be seeing the EP for the portrayal of a really, really obscure Historical-Domain Character in here by next year, if not in a few months time that I will be making. His real life counterpart, never did anything that could be considered "bad" or "murderous" or engaged in some sort of mass murder(through I'd say his real life worldviews is very reactionary and off the loop), nor did he have any sort of power or influence, nor is this a "positively regarded historical figure made into a total Nazi" sort of scenario.......so good luck trying to deduce who I'm referring to(you're free to pm me for any guesses).

I will say that the work he is slated to appear in is a deconstruction of grand strategy and 4x games and this will be one of the more heinous examples of CM(but also maybe one of the more complex one as well)

Anyways [tup] to the 40K examples. Kyras isn't as clear of an example as Erebus because of what goes on in the verse(if we were forced to judge the fluff I would have to give him a [tdown] due to the souped up heinousness standard of the fluff in general since even throug his plan is horrible for a Khronate, it might not be enough for the verse itself), but as it stands and with earlier precedence, the canoncity of Dawn of War is vague enough for him to fit.

Edited by xie323 on Aug 9th 2018 at 9:15:19 AM

G-Editor The Shame Wizard! from Wherever shame is near. Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The Shame Wizard!
Aug 9th 2018 at 9:03:47 PM

switching to abstain for YHVH.

@Kazuya Porta next time even if you haven't played the games at least look at the playthroughs on youtube.

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 9th 2018 at 6:17:15 AM

SHAME!
MenInGreyToBlak Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Aug 9th 2018 at 9:12:55 PM

I'm gonna abstain on YHHV, as I have no idea.

[up] Is right, check entire playthroughs if you don't have the game and wants to make an EP.

All stupid people are not conservative, but alot of conservative people are stupid. I saw someone say that a while ago.
MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Aug 10th 2018 at 12:50:50 AM

Uh... yeah i'm switching to abstain.

ElfenLiedFan90 Lovely Day For It! from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Lovely Day For It!
Aug 10th 2018 at 12:52:09 AM

[up] Me 2

This is the Halloween Police! Current story that I made.
miraculous This world is shit as always! from south africa
This world is shit as always!
Aug 10th 2018 at 2:15:12 AM

[up][up]Me three

"How does it feel when I beat you? Are you pissed? Miserable? Frustrated? That's what it's like to lose."
Aug 10th 2018 at 4:32:53 AM

So, i have question about Comic!Xander Rice from X-Men.

Rice wants to kill Wol in order to avenge his father's death.

Yet this isn't mitigating, because he tried to kill his own son.

Why? His father and son are two different persons. Just because he doesn't love his son, it doesn't mean that he doesn't love his father.

Aug 10th 2018 at 5:28:33 AM

Answered this multiple times. Rice is a sociopath who cares far more about the fear he was forced to feel at the time. He isnít shown moving his father in modern day

miraculous This world is shit as always! from south africa
This world is shit as always!
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:35:53 AM

Do you think we should remove the lines about Rice wanting to Hold X-23 rsponible for his fathers death by wolverine from his entry or at least rewrite it to clarfiy the whole is a sociopath motivated by his own ego rather than care for his dad. It adds nothing to the entry and causes problems as people might wonder why he'd count which has come up multiple times.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 10th 2018 at 5:35:48 AM

"How does it feel when I beat you? Are you pissed? Miserable? Frustrated? That's what it's like to lose."
ACW Complete Monster Editor from Arlington, VA (outside of DC) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:40:04 AM

[up] Honestly, that might be a good idea. I'm not sure of the exact wording we should change it to, or if we should just cut it entirely.

For that matter, does Rice need a 300+ word entry?

Edited by ACW on Aug 10th 2018 at 8:42:44 AM

Complete Monster Drafts Pending CM Writeups
ReynTime250 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Aug 10th 2018 at 6:12:03 AM

[up] Which Rice are you talking about? Comic version or the one from Logan? Both are pretty long.

Edited by ReynTime250 on Aug 10th 2018 at 2:15:30 PM

miraculous This world is shit as always! from south africa
This world is shit as always!
Aug 10th 2018 at 6:17:07 AM

[up]The comic version. Here's his entry for context btw.

  • Complete Monster: Dr. Zander Rice, one of the lead scientists of Weapon X's X-23 project, has X-23 kept in a padded room except during training sessions or assassination missions, almost kills her with radiation poisoning to trigger her healing factor at the age of seven, and surgically removes her natural claws one at a time, coats them with adamantium, then re-implants them-all of this without anaesthesia-at the same age. He develops a pheromone "trigger" that activates her berserker rage and uses it to get X-23 to kill her martial arts instructor, and leaves her behind on a mission to be killed after he murders the other members of the team so he can claim they were taking fire and had to retreat. After X-23 shows back up alive, Rice then manipulates the head of the X-23 project, who had raised Rice after his father's death, into granting Rice control of the project, at which point Rice then sends X-23 to kill the man, his wife, and son - even though Rice knows the boy is his own son, from an affair between Rice and the wife before her marriage; X-23 leaves the child alive. Upon taking over the project, he begins the development of embryos X-24 through X-50, which he intends to sell to the highest bidders, and then taints the one remaining person X-23 cares about, the project scientist who was her surrogate mother, with the trigger pheromone, which causes X-23 to fatally injure the woman - just as she was about to take X-23 and disappear after destroying the project complex. Rice's reasoning for all of this is that his father, who worked on the original—Wolverine—Weapon X project was killed by Wolverine when he escaped, and Rice held X-23, who is Logan's genetic double, responsible for Wolverine's killing of his father.

"How does it feel when I beat you? Are you pissed? Miserable? Frustrated? That's what it's like to lose."
Aug 10th 2018 at 6:17:54 AM

Now then: From Mission Impossible VI...now, in this one? The IMF, led by Ethan Hunt encounter a situation where Ethan saved the life of a teammate and lost some Plutonium in the process. Since the fall of The Syndicate, a new group called the Apostles have risen from the ashes, led by the mysterious John Lark. Ethan must go undercover to recover the Plutonium...and to secure the plutonium, they must extract an old enemy of Ethan's: Solomon Lane, who has earned a brand new discussion.

Who is Solomon Lane? Now to quote my old EP from three years ago:

Lane is the head of the Syndicate, a Nebulous Evil Organization that is a perfect counter to the Impossible Mission Force. In order to bring about changes in governments, Lane enacts terrorist attacks and assassinations.

Lane was initially an agent for British intelligence; a killer and destabilizer who killed many innocent people. Eventually he realized it didn't bother him- or maybe it never did to begin with, and he began to blame the government for his own sociopathy. The head of British intelligence, Attlee, conceived of the Syndicate as a secret group controlled by the Prime Minister alone as judge, jury and executioner, with funds stored that only the PM could access. The PM was aghast at the idea of a group accountable to none who could ruin any government or kill anyone...he ordered it scrapped. Attlee agreed...but went ahead anyways.

Lane drew in agents from all over the world, having them fake their deaths. With his own personal Syndicate operating, Lane set about to bring in a new world. He went rogue, deciding to throw the world into anarchy. Lane was defeated by Ethan and team, imprisoned and handed over to multiple governments where he has been interrogated endlessly for the last two years. However, Lane still holds full pull with the Apostles and they need him to get the Plutonium. With Ethan pretending to be Lark, the IMF manages to extract Lane...

However, the team's handler, CIA agent August Walker is the real John Lark, and he betrays the group when they have the situation in hand. By now, though? Lane isn't content with a nuclear apocalypse for its own sake. Lane wants revenge as his primary, driving motivator. He wants Hunt's head. Walker and Lane escape and make it to a helicopter to flee Paris, with Walker warning Ethan if he attempts to follow them? Ethan's former wife Julia's life is forfeit.

In fact? Lane's good intentions are long gone. He no longer seems to care much about the new order. He uses the plutonium to rig a nuclear explosion at a medical camp in Kashmir, intending on a massive blast that will contaminate the water supplies of India, Pakistan and China, affecting and killing up to a 3rd of the earth's population. Countless people will die, anarchy will reign...and thanks to Walker, Lane has framed Ethan Hunt as being the real John Lark...so Lane plans to stay behind and die in the nuclear explosion. All so he can frame Ethan and have Ethan thrown into a cell, rotting forever.

Oh, and why he'd choose that medical camp? Because Ethan's ex-wife is working there with her new husband Patrick...and he really wants Ethan to fail at saving her. Ethan heads to recover the detonators from Walker, as the IMF team tries to disarm the bombs. Ilse Faust, a former mole in the Syndicate who's been trying to kill or capture Lane for MI-6, ends up engaging Lane in a fight there along with the team's tech genius Benji. Lane tries to kill Benji by hanging him and trying to kill Ilse. Ilse manages to defeat Lane as Hunt kills Walker and they avert the explosions. The day and world are saved and Ethan clears his name.

And Lane? Lane is given to MI-6 by Ilse, furious and defeated, with all his plans destroyed and no future to look forward to.

Heinous Standard?

Now, previously? The standard was set by Owen Davian, a sadistic arms dealer trying to start a huge war to kill millions. Davian still counts because this is still comfortably over the standard and he's got a lot of nasty torture and personal crimes. The only other guy who came close was the villain of MI IV who planned on a nuclear Armageddon to rebuild the world (Well-Intentioned Extremist, doesn't count)...Lane in the last film didn't quite make it. But here? He leapfrogs over it. Lane is explicit in what he intends. Despite all the terrorist attacks he'd committed with the Syndicate, here? Lane is trying to set off a nuke to kill off up to a third of the world's population all out of spite and revenge. While he's working with Walker, Lane is easily the worst of the two, as Walker genuinely believes he'll make the world a better place by the end.

Mitigating Qualities?

So, in the last film...Ethan deduces Lane rather brutally and precisely. Lane was an agent for MI-6 who found that after all the innocent people he killed for his government, it had stopped bothering him. More than that, it never really did. Lane was a sociopath and the Syndicate existed so he could cover it in lofty ideals, tearing down the old order he blamed and to avoid admitting his true nature to himself. Interesting bit of depth there....but by Fallout?

Lane's good intentions and any sympathy are gone. He's consumed with spite and revenge, and he's nuking Kashmir to poison the water supply not because he thinks it'll better the world but because he wants Ethan to take the blame and suffer forever. And he's even willing to die to make it happen, knowing Ethan will be blamed for his crimes and suffer forever because his former wife died. Lane reveals he's truly a sociopath with an inflated sense of ego, and the rise of a new order has taken a backseat to killing millions or even billions out of petty payback.

Conclusion?

He failed as a near miss three years ago. Today, he's back and he makes the grade.

miraculous This world is shit as always! from south africa
This world is shit as always!
Aug 10th 2018 at 6:20:41 AM

[tup]Lane

Congradulations Lane, you know join the likes of Cheng Zi as the bad guy we cut for heinous standard issues before but a later installment puts them over into full CM.

"How does it feel when I beat you? Are you pissed? Miserable? Frustrated? That's what it's like to lose."

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