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The two man-eating lions from The Ghost and the Darkness. They're the reason this thread decided to establish a moral agency clause.

Wasn't there an entry for Camp Lazlo at one point?

Eh, except the Ghost and the Darkness were lions from Africa, not mountain lions. But, anyway, we should probably be going onto other subjects now.

I mis-remembered man. I wasn't even here when those lions were being discussed. Forgive me for getting a detail or 2 wrong.

I was thinking of a possible candidate. He does not try to kill anyone directly himself, but neither did Steele from Balto. I am not sure about the candidate myself, and I am bringing him up just to check since the Steele voting.

The candidate is named Breckinridge Scott, and he is from World War Z, a zombie book.

Scott is a Corrupt Corporate Executive. When the zombie virus first broke out, people thought it was some new advanced version of Rabis. Scott started a company selling untested vaccines that he claimed could cure the zombie virus. Even though his product had never actually been tested, he still sold it, not caring if it worked or not. When the outbreak got big and it was revealed that the vaccines were useless, Scott took the millions of dolars worth of money he had made, and fled to Antarctica. Scott than purchased a safety doom to keep zombies and police out, so he could be a Karma Houdini. At the time the main story takes place, the entire world (not just U.s.A, the entire world) has been overrun with zombies, and many people have died. Scott however, is still safe in his protective dome. When interviewed, he states that he has absolutely no regrets and does not care that the entire Earth has been overrun with zombies, all that he cares about is his own safety. Scott also laughs his head off when he hears that most of his buyers ended up infected, and taunts everyone about the fact that since he's in a safe haven in another country, the police can never arrest him, bragging about how he scammed so many people out of their money.

Scott. I've not seen Balto, but I believe Steele KNEW children would die. Now, if the vaccines CAUSED deaths. then maybe, but if they had no effect than he's just a greedy Jerkass IMO.

Interesting example, that. My first inclination is to vote , though.

Not a problem, VM. None of us really care anyway.

Thanks.

edited 24th Oct '14 2:44:51 PM by VeryMelon

I'd be willing to vote if the vaccines caused deaths, or made the zombification process worse. Given that they didn't do anything though, I'm leaning towards a since like it was said earlier, he just comes off as an incredibly selfish and greedy asshole.

Although, OTOH, we DO have Harry Lime, so...(Though considering the fact that he STEALS penicillin to water it down, he's worse).

Yes, but what Harry does actually makes the medicine itself lethal, or at least incredibly dangerous. That's a bit of a step up from simply selling sugar pills.

About what else I have on Atron. I barely remember the show, but the information I got was all I could find on the internet, but allow me to re-evaluate her crimes

• Her main goal in the show is to find a super powered kid who's been doused in chemicals she created, perform scientific experiments on her and kill the kid as a witness.
• Her secondary goal was sell the chemical as a weight loss drug, despite the chemical being pretty much a haywire super soldier serum and make off with the money before the FDA can catch up to her.
• She has witnesses killed, don't remember if it's onscreen or not but in the case of Hunter Reeves father, it was relevant enough to the character and story arc that I don't think it mattered if it was onscreen.
• In the Grande Finale, she places the protagonist in her parents in a chemical plant as the FDA are on to her. She plans on blowing up her chemical plant to destroy the evidence, and when asked by her head of sequrity about the family, she replies "They are evidence".

Seeing as this is a kids show, that sounds pretty heinous to me. Don't believe me on her being a serious villain ? The final episode was uploaded on youtube.

Eh, I don't know. Sounds fairly standard for a Corrupt Corporate Executive. It sounds like with the resources she has she could be a lot worse. Plus, since the murder of witnesses is offscreen and the fact that the chemicals she wants to sell don't exactly kill people, they just make them... kinda freaky, I can't get behind supporting her because only Alex and her family are her onscreen attempted victims.

Scott.

on Breckinridge Scott. He's just an opportunist, and a key point that was omitted from the write-up was that he didn't know that the zombie virus wasn't rabies until the shit was hitting the fan. I also don't recall him "laughing his head off" when they discuss how useless the vaccine was or really bragging about scamming people; my recollection is that he kept insisting that he didn't have anything to feel guilty for since he was just selling a vaccine to rabies (and from my memory implied that it actually was a valid vaccine for rabies), that he wasn't the only one profiting from the fear of the virus before people realised it made zombies.

Plus, if we are talking about the heinous standard in World War Z he falls far short of how horrible humans got in that book.

If he was actually marketing a rabies vaccine then he was genuinely trying to help, albeit in a sort of sleazy way.

Breckinridge Scott

I've got another possible contender: Ivarr Ragnarson from Guy Gavriel Kay's The Last Light of the Sun. As with the prior Kay example (Bai'ji, from River of Stars) he doesn't last long (the truly evil characters in Kay's books never do), but he nonetheless manages to do a lot of damage.

Who is Ivarr Ragnarson? What has he done?

Ivarr is the grandson of Siggur Volganson, aka the Volgan, widely regarded as the greatest Erling (Viking) raider ever. He's also an albino dwarf and Manipulative Bastard who doesn't fit in at all in a society of hard drinking, hard fighting Blood Knights.

At the start of the novel, he and his brother, Mikkel, lead a raid on the farm of Brynn ap Hwyll, the Cyngael (Welsh) warrior who killed their grandfather. He proceeds to hide during the fighting, allowing his brother and the other men to be killed. He takes a shot at Brynn, then bolts from the area when he misses; he later shoots one of his own men. He runs back to his ship, stopping to blood eagle two people he encounters along the way. For those of you who don't know, blood eagling is a process whereby a person's ribs are cracked open and their lungs extracted, giving them the appearance of having a pair of bloodied wings. Ivarr's goal in life is to find a way to do this to somebody while keeping them alive the entire time.

Ivarr then hires a band of Jormsvik (mercenary) Erlings, convincing them that there is easy raiding to be had in the Anglcyn (English) lands—this is a flat out lie, as Aeldred (read as Alfred the Great), the Anglcyn king has been fortifying his country for years. When his Jormsvik raiders capture Aeldred's best friend, Ivarr kills the man to deny them the ransom. He then abandons his raiding party to face Aeldred when he comes for them, leaving them to be killed to a man. A miller's assistant spots Ivarr and chases after him; Ivarr captures the boy, cuts off his nose and ears, and then kills him.

When he gets back to the Jormsvik ships, Ivarr tries to steer the mercenaries towards Brynn's lands again (this has been his plan from the start), fantasizing to himself about blood eagleing Brynn's family the entire time. He's lost sixty men, but does not care, and also plans to kill the leader of the mercenary band, Brand Leofson, and Bern Thorkellson, one of the younger members, for making him have to work at lying to the band. It's at this point that Brand kills him, but the violence doesn't stop there. Dozens more people die before the end of the novel, as the Jormsvik mercenaries clash with the Anglcyn and Cyngael.

Are his actions heinous by the standards of the story?

Nobody in the novel is really a moral person by modern standards. The Erlings are raiders and killers who see nothing wrong with sacking monasteries, and neither the Anglcyn nor the Cyngael are much better. Even Aeldred, who is famous for his magnanimous nature, is perfectly willing to execute an entire band of surrendered Erlings for killing his friend (despite the fact that they've already told him it was Ivarr, and that they had little interest in doing so).

That said, Ivarr is essentially a Serial Killer, and stands out accordingly. The entire plot is driven by his actions, and upwards of a hundred people are dead by the end, as a direct result of what he's put in motion. He's also the only person in the book to blood eagle anybody (it is talked about at length as an Erling tradition, but nobody else actually does it) and he's hated by his own men, and his enemies alike. The Jormsvik Erlings are especially aghast about the fact that he not only hired them under false pretenses, but is prepared to see them all dead, and his use of a bow and poisoned arrows is a further break with what they would consider appropriate.

Within the wider setting, Ivarr is worse than anybody from The Lions of al-Rassan and Sailing to Sarantium. He's outmatched in terms of sheer bodycount by Roshan of Under Heaven and Bai'ji of River of Stars, but both of them are warlords with hundreds of thousands of men at their disposal. Ivarr's a lone psychopath whose means go no further than the number of mercenaries he can hire.

I think he passes this one.

Any redeeming qualities?

It might sound from the description that Ivarr wants to avenge his grandfather and his brother, but you would be mistaken if you thought that. In the scene that's narrated from his perspective, Ivarr sneers at both of their memories, and admits that he's using revenge as an excuse to cover the fact that he simply enjoys killing. His desire to see Brynn dead is based on the fact that he doesn't like to fail in an enterprise. We also find out that when he was a child, he killed his sister, and he mocks his father as a coward, which puts to rest the notion of his having any family feeling. He's if anything worse to the men he's hired, plotting at various points to kill any who complicate his life, and gets sixty of them killed on the initial raid by lying to them. This was, for the record, part of the plan—he needed that many dead so he could steer them in the direction he wanted them to go in.

Ivarr hates people, period. Pass.

Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

Maybe. Ivarr, as previously mentioned, is badly disfigured. In the main though, this doesn't seem to has resulted in his being overly discriminated against. Rather than mocking him, most Erlings evince a wary mistrust—a mistrust which is pretty valid, given that Ivarr views everybody he meets as either something to use or something to hate. Ivarr's deeply resentful of his deformity, and loathes everyone around him for having what he cannot, but that seems driven more by his own psychopathy, than by any active mistreatment on their part. Pass.

Final verdict?

In a setting full of warriors and kings with grand plans and ambitions, Ivarr's a serial murderer and torturer, motivated by nothing more than his desire to see every person he meets dead. He's void of redeeming quality, has no Freudian excuse, and despite the very limited resources he has to work with, manages a bodycount that pushes towards the triple digits. I think he's a qualifier. What say we all?

edited 24th Oct '14 6:22:51 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Ivarr sounds like a definite .

Ivar. Sounds as bad as a low-on-the-totem-pole villain can be in such a setting. I could swear we had another character quite like him before, but I can't recall who.

Ivarr Ragnarson

What a nasty little dude.

Ivarr. He wants to Blood Eagle someone who's ALIVE THE WHOLE TIME???

edited 25th Oct '14 7:59:02 AM by ACW

for Scott for Ivar